Im upset because of HIM
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Please....no matter what anyone says.....please don't feel that anything you do or don't do will cause or prevent a relapse. We just aren't that powerful. That's why taking care of you is so important. Each of us are ultimately responsible for ourselves first. You did good getting the appointment set up.....it was an important step in taking care of yourself and getting the support you need.
If he does relapse....that is not a failure on your part....at all.....it is the nature of addiction. All of us love the addicts in our lives.....we would all like to say that it was our perfectly executed support that gets them clean and sober.....but that's not the way this disease works. You could support him perfectly and relapse can happen.
He must do his part to deal with his disease. If he was a diabetic.....you couldn't make him eat right, exercise, or take his insulin. And he would become resentful of you constantly trying to ensure that he does those things.
If he relapses.....just keep that focus on taking care of you. That way.....you'll be ok.....that's not selfish.....that is healthy self care.
These are the things we learn in Nar-Anon and Al-Anon. Although those fellowships may not be for everyone, there is a great deal of support in those rooms. We don't ever suggest someone stay with or leave the addict in their lives. We only suggest that there is a way to find serenity in our own lives whether the addict is in recovery....or not.
Keep taking care of you.
gentle hugs
ke
If he does relapse....that is not a failure on your part....at all.....it is the nature of addiction. All of us love the addicts in our lives.....we would all like to say that it was our perfectly executed support that gets them clean and sober.....but that's not the way this disease works. You could support him perfectly and relapse can happen.
He must do his part to deal with his disease. If he was a diabetic.....you couldn't make him eat right, exercise, or take his insulin. And he would become resentful of you constantly trying to ensure that he does those things.
If he relapses.....just keep that focus on taking care of you. That way.....you'll be ok.....that's not selfish.....that is healthy self care.
These are the things we learn in Nar-Anon and Al-Anon. Although those fellowships may not be for everyone, there is a great deal of support in those rooms. We don't ever suggest someone stay with or leave the addict in their lives. We only suggest that there is a way to find serenity in our own lives whether the addict is in recovery....or not.
Keep taking care of you.
gentle hugs
ke
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I agree with KE. There is nothing you can do that will prevent him from relapsing...or not. You cannot be with him every second of the day. You cannot will it on him. I think he is very selfish to not continue outpatient. Sometimes we all have to do things we don't want to do for others. This time, it should be for his employer if he does not want to do it for himself. They are bending over backwards to help him out and he just casually mentions he is not doing outpatient? Wow. I do things ALL THE TIME that I don't really want to do...because it is the right thing to do. He seems very wrapped up in himself...I am sorry to say that.
I hope you are able to get yourself the support you need. Just like you said, you were able to quickly make the needed counseling appointments, etc. Taking charge. Maybe it would be good to be apart and let him take charge of some things for himself.
I am sorry, I send you huge hugs. Keep posting, you are not alone.
I hope you are able to get yourself the support you need. Just like you said, you were able to quickly make the needed counseling appointments, etc. Taking charge. Maybe it would be good to be apart and let him take charge of some things for himself.
I am sorry, I send you huge hugs. Keep posting, you are not alone.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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I forgot to bring my notes from my counseling sessions but I went online at the rehab and was able to login and access a bunch of info. I was thinking about what everyone here said about isolating and "clearing the decks" was so helpful because I feel like that's what he's doing if he knows it or not.
I decided (( I )) was also isolating. Ive had my parents, his parents, joint friends who work with him asking me how things are, how he is, and everything is great until this last anxiety attack but truth is he thinks its going to be old life as normal and he has made no calls to his doctor, has shelved outpatient, and thinks he can hit work hard and go back full time.
I got honest with my closest friend. She got really pissed at him telling me I needed to move out. Smart me gave all my friends stuff from the rehab to read about addiction long time back so they could understand. She called all the red flags and said she thinks he has been doing a number on me. We are now in a good place, he's solved the crisis between us, now he wants me to stay away and keep this same outlook while he goes home and tries to work and she thinks he will abuse alcohol and now he has a script for anxiety pills and will start abusing those. But I wont be around to see it, and sure he will clean himself up for our get together's where he will romance me and tell me he is working hard on himself but he won't be doing anything. She thinks I'm being naive because I'm too blind to what he is capable of because I love him.
I guess that's a worse case scenario but she makes him out to be doing all this with full knowledge and in a manipulative way and I don’t see it. We have had some deep talks and there is a lot going on in his head right now and I dont think he see's the red flags. But I do know he has been working things he learned in rehab and keeping a journal to help him track patterns of his thoughts and things like this. Its good he is trying to put in practice things he has learned. She said open my mouth and reply to the people who are asking me how he is. They have no idea and have a right to know. I'm afraid to put anything in writing because I don't want it out there. I'm confused on what's enabling, betraying his trust as a wife, what right others have to know my thoughts because they are only mine.
We leave for home tomorrow and have a 13 hour flight then I work the next day and will be exhausted. I told him I wanted to stay here, and he told me don't forget the money, and he needs to get back to work.
I dropped him off at the church to talk to the minister there because he asked him to stop by before we left. I went off to take a bunch of pictures and wanted to give them time alone before going back to thank him and say bye. They had a good talk, and this man (and his wife too) are the nicest most caring people. He was so good for my husband to be around. He showed us this bible that was dated back to the 1600's called a Geneva bible. I hadn't heard of that version but it was written in like scroll and he it’s the version Shakespeare used to quote from in his plays, and the pilgrims took it to America. He said that book was valued over 20k US dollars. He gave us a replica really nice leather bound and had highlighted all these scriptures positive things. Then he gave us a newer book that sort of translates it into more of English. we have been fascinated by it. My husband skips over all the highlighted positive and goes straight to things like and your home shall be filled with locusts and all this negative sinner things randomly (not highlighted). He has such a bad attitude and said it was depressing him looking at it after a while.
Does anyone have positive verses I can look up that have helped with your recovery, or your loved ones? Doesn't matter what version will probably be close. Thought it would give me something positive to do on our flight home. If so, thank you !!!
I decided (( I )) was also isolating. Ive had my parents, his parents, joint friends who work with him asking me how things are, how he is, and everything is great until this last anxiety attack but truth is he thinks its going to be old life as normal and he has made no calls to his doctor, has shelved outpatient, and thinks he can hit work hard and go back full time.
I got honest with my closest friend. She got really pissed at him telling me I needed to move out. Smart me gave all my friends stuff from the rehab to read about addiction long time back so they could understand. She called all the red flags and said she thinks he has been doing a number on me. We are now in a good place, he's solved the crisis between us, now he wants me to stay away and keep this same outlook while he goes home and tries to work and she thinks he will abuse alcohol and now he has a script for anxiety pills and will start abusing those. But I wont be around to see it, and sure he will clean himself up for our get together's where he will romance me and tell me he is working hard on himself but he won't be doing anything. She thinks I'm being naive because I'm too blind to what he is capable of because I love him.
I guess that's a worse case scenario but she makes him out to be doing all this with full knowledge and in a manipulative way and I don’t see it. We have had some deep talks and there is a lot going on in his head right now and I dont think he see's the red flags. But I do know he has been working things he learned in rehab and keeping a journal to help him track patterns of his thoughts and things like this. Its good he is trying to put in practice things he has learned. She said open my mouth and reply to the people who are asking me how he is. They have no idea and have a right to know. I'm afraid to put anything in writing because I don't want it out there. I'm confused on what's enabling, betraying his trust as a wife, what right others have to know my thoughts because they are only mine.
We leave for home tomorrow and have a 13 hour flight then I work the next day and will be exhausted. I told him I wanted to stay here, and he told me don't forget the money, and he needs to get back to work.
I dropped him off at the church to talk to the minister there because he asked him to stop by before we left. I went off to take a bunch of pictures and wanted to give them time alone before going back to thank him and say bye. They had a good talk, and this man (and his wife too) are the nicest most caring people. He was so good for my husband to be around. He showed us this bible that was dated back to the 1600's called a Geneva bible. I hadn't heard of that version but it was written in like scroll and he it’s the version Shakespeare used to quote from in his plays, and the pilgrims took it to America. He said that book was valued over 20k US dollars. He gave us a replica really nice leather bound and had highlighted all these scriptures positive things. Then he gave us a newer book that sort of translates it into more of English. we have been fascinated by it. My husband skips over all the highlighted positive and goes straight to things like and your home shall be filled with locusts and all this negative sinner things randomly (not highlighted). He has such a bad attitude and said it was depressing him looking at it after a while.
Does anyone have positive verses I can look up that have helped with your recovery, or your loved ones? Doesn't matter what version will probably be close. Thought it would give me something positive to do on our flight home. If so, thank you !!!
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Hi BC. That bible sounds really neat, I would love to see it. Maybe you should be looking at it instead of him and looking at all the positives instead of the negatives. Celebrate Recovery has put out a daily devo book that is $5.00. You can get it online( Nook, Kindle, ebooks) or an actual hardback book you can order. It is really great as it is a devo that also hilights recovery. I have a hard time not skipping ahead!
As far as behing honest with everyone else, I have to say, for myself...the truth set me free. I was so busy worrying about what other people thought that I was not getting the support I needed for myself. I do share and am quite open with people about AH's recovery (or lack of) and MY OWN. I need support. I need my family and friends. When I need to cry I need face to face support who understand...WHY. I no longer feel sneaky because I am hiding a big part of my life from others. You know what, alot of them knew anyways. It has also forced my AH to be accountable for some things I doubt he would be. Those are his consequences, not mine.
My AH still journals and applies some of the things he has learned in counseling and his stint in rehab. That being said, it has not stopped him from relapse. Is he trying? Sure. Is it enough? Doubt that.
Time will tell. He has a motive why he wants you to move out. That is very odd and quite suspicious to me. However...with time you will know for sure.
I am sorry BC. I wish you peace and a safe flight. Hugs.
As far as behing honest with everyone else, I have to say, for myself...the truth set me free. I was so busy worrying about what other people thought that I was not getting the support I needed for myself. I do share and am quite open with people about AH's recovery (or lack of) and MY OWN. I need support. I need my family and friends. When I need to cry I need face to face support who understand...WHY. I no longer feel sneaky because I am hiding a big part of my life from others. You know what, alot of them knew anyways. It has also forced my AH to be accountable for some things I doubt he would be. Those are his consequences, not mine.
My AH still journals and applies some of the things he has learned in counseling and his stint in rehab. That being said, it has not stopped him from relapse. Is he trying? Sure. Is it enough? Doubt that.
Time will tell. He has a motive why he wants you to move out. That is very odd and quite suspicious to me. However...with time you will know for sure.
I am sorry BC. I wish you peace and a safe flight. Hugs.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Thank you I will look that up. I have heard you mention Celebrate Recovery before and Im curious about it. Ive had a lot of peace through church these last few months. When he was in the hospital I would go to the place in the church they had set up to pray, oh I forgot what they called it, but you could light candles and I felt calm there. Things seem to keep drawing me to church like the minister inviting us to Christmas Eve service and being so nice to us while we were there. Its like some kind of sign.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
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Celebrate Recovery is what pushed me into recovery FOR ME. It is a great blessing in my life. Luckily I go to one that has been around for about 5 years and their ministry leaders really have it together and it is quite well run.
Our church has a candlelight Christmas Eve service that I almost did not go to (I was late, we were coming back from a family event). I did go and am always so glad I did. It is so peaceful and beautiful, it almost takes my breath. I love it and to me it should be what Christmas is all about.
There were all sorts of oddball things that clicked into place when I started Celebrate Recovery, it was almost like an act of God that even got me there as I truly knew nothing about it and thought I was setting up a place for my AH to come to after rehab...ha ha!!
Blessings BC. Keep peace in your life.
Our church has a candlelight Christmas Eve service that I almost did not go to (I was late, we were coming back from a family event). I did go and am always so glad I did. It is so peaceful and beautiful, it almost takes my breath. I love it and to me it should be what Christmas is all about.
There were all sorts of oddball things that clicked into place when I started Celebrate Recovery, it was almost like an act of God that even got me there as I truly knew nothing about it and thought I was setting up a place for my AH to come to after rehab...ha ha!!
Blessings BC. Keep peace in your life.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
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I also recommend the book Lifes Healing Choices by John Baker. Matthew 11:28 ......Come to me all who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest.....The book of Matthew really focuses alot on recovery. Hugs BC, you are in my prayers.
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Join Date: May 2012
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I also have found a lot in the book of Matthew. One of my favorites that I grew up with (thanks to my mom sharing it early on) -
Matthew19:26
With God all things are possible
Also I like a lot in Psalms. This one is Psalms 23
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
Matthew19:26
With God all things are possible
Also I like a lot in Psalms. This one is Psalms 23
The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
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Wishing you safe travels today BC and that things work out for you and your husband. I hope you can find something to help you with all of this whether it be Celebrate Recovery, books or going to church. We all need our own recovery to deal with what we as family of addicts go through.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
I hope you had a safe flight, and are home in your home, not somewhere else.
Sadly no matter what you won’t ever truly know what is going on with him. This is why it is so important to keep it about you. The pink cloud days, the days of depression, the strange signs, the red flags, the crazy talk where things make no sense, the days of enlightenment where it seems they might actually make some sense to not only themselves but to those around all very normal for where he is.
This road is long.
The road is filled with pot holes, mostly ones you dug out already in your own head and just need that one bit of justification to …
And equally as filled with little things, little lessons and revelations about yourself that might be all that is needed to carry you one more day of not using …
The choice is desperate no matter which is picked or so I find. You are making a gut wrenching decision and neither is easy or without pain.
Always remember actions do show the truth.
And sadly because you taught him well along the way already, he knows what he has to do, what you need to see and hear to be ok and not up his ass, or on guard …. What does that mean, nothing really, because it still won’t be about him.
Your isolating makes sense and should be the biggest of red flags you pay attention because that gives you a chance.
I leave this stanza from Desiderata by Max Ehrmann because I have it memorized.
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Sadly no matter what you won’t ever truly know what is going on with him. This is why it is so important to keep it about you. The pink cloud days, the days of depression, the strange signs, the red flags, the crazy talk where things make no sense, the days of enlightenment where it seems they might actually make some sense to not only themselves but to those around all very normal for where he is.
This road is long.
The road is filled with pot holes, mostly ones you dug out already in your own head and just need that one bit of justification to …
And equally as filled with little things, little lessons and revelations about yourself that might be all that is needed to carry you one more day of not using …
The choice is desperate no matter which is picked or so I find. You are making a gut wrenching decision and neither is easy or without pain.
Always remember actions do show the truth.
And sadly because you taught him well along the way already, he knows what he has to do, what you need to see and hear to be ok and not up his ass, or on guard …. What does that mean, nothing really, because it still won’t be about him.
Your isolating makes sense and should be the biggest of red flags you pay attention because that gives you a chance.
I leave this stanza from Desiderata by Max Ehrmann because I have it memorized.
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Thank you Everyone for the bible references and good wishes. We had a good flight home, and although we could have had free drinks he didnt have any. I didnt either but that is not so exciting.
I sort of messed up some of our finances by accident and we found out about it when we got home. He was more upset than he should have been like he takes stress worse than before but we got through it.
And guess what? Now that we are home he is saying he cant think about being there without me and he doesnt want me to leave but he is confused because he still thinks it would be best for me to not have to be around him while he deals with things because he knows he is going to be in a bad mood. I dont know what is going on with him, maybe it has something to do with being home or we have our family session tomorrow and I think he knows its not going to fly his saying he needs to live at our home alone. We are supposed to be a team thats what we were told. And he says tomorrow while we are there he will set himself up some appointments with the counselor doctor but still no go on outpatient.
As soon as we landed and I saw home I felt good. I missed it here even though I loved being away. Our animals were so happy to see us and it was like they were screaming mom and dad are back !!!
Could use you all keeping us in your thoughts tomorrow
I sort of messed up some of our finances by accident and we found out about it when we got home. He was more upset than he should have been like he takes stress worse than before but we got through it.
And guess what? Now that we are home he is saying he cant think about being there without me and he doesnt want me to leave but he is confused because he still thinks it would be best for me to not have to be around him while he deals with things because he knows he is going to be in a bad mood. I dont know what is going on with him, maybe it has something to do with being home or we have our family session tomorrow and I think he knows its not going to fly his saying he needs to live at our home alone. We are supposed to be a team thats what we were told. And he says tomorrow while we are there he will set himself up some appointments with the counselor doctor but still no go on outpatient.
As soon as we landed and I saw home I felt good. I missed it here even though I loved being away. Our animals were so happy to see us and it was like they were screaming mom and dad are back !!!
Could use you all keeping us in your thoughts tomorrow
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Originally Posted by BlueChair 
Does anyone have positive verses I can look up that have helped with your recovery, or your loved ones? Doesn't matter what version will probably be close. Thought it would give me something positive to do on our flight home. If so, thank you !!!
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Originally Posted by allthatsgood
Blue chair- unfortunately, most days there are events and things we have to deal with that don't put us in the best of moods. But the reality is that's everyday life and we have to learn to get through it.
He didnt sleep until like 3 hours ago and if he is not up soon Im going to have to wake him up for our appointment. Nothing like jumping out of bed and going to talk about your relationship with a doctor
((Marcus)) Thank you
for the bible info. I didnt know they had a special recovery bible. I had looked at the celebrate Recovery site the other day and I saw they had one they offered or it said you could use any version. We have always used the King James version, but I would like to look at the others for myself. I think as soon as I have some free time Im going to go to the Christian bookstore and look around. Im a little confused on how religion and spirituality fits in with addiction and recovery. I dont think addiction is a spiritual disease or anything like that, but I also believe that we find strength and peace in God during any time of need (or whatever HP someone believes in), and addiction, infidelity cause a lot of pain, a lot of self inspection, in that way I can understand the importance. maybe it is I need to connect the dots in someway myself.
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BC - actually addiction IS a spiritual malady...think about it, what does the addict desire most? drugs. what becomes their higher power? drugs. and what will they do for those drugs, sell their soul. that's the PRICE.
thankfully, gratefully and humbly, with recovery, we no longer let the drugs control us, we return to right size, no longer the center of universe. and for many, develop a relationship with a power greater, a power for the greater good.
thankfully, gratefully and humbly, with recovery, we no longer let the drugs control us, we return to right size, no longer the center of universe. and for many, develop a relationship with a power greater, a power for the greater good.
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Spirituality can be defined in numerous ways but it largely refers to a belief in a power governing the universe that is greater than oneself, the sense of interconnectedness with all living beings, and the quest for self-knowledge, meaning, and purpose in one’s life. When an individual uses his/her substance of choice, the usual outcome is a detachment and disconnection from the present moment, uncomfortable feelings that the individual seeks to avoid through self-medication, and ultimately, the self. Addiction is a disease of isolation, and as the individual sinks deeper and deeper into the disease, he/she becomes more isolated from others and oneself as deeply rooted feelings of inner insufficiency and not being “enough” create the overwhelming need to use.
A lack of connection to authentic self, important others, a higher power, and the larger community can each contribute to feelings of isolation and emptiness, low self-worth, and a pervasive sense of unhappiness that can contribute to and/or perpetuate addictive behaviors. Being of service is a profound way that recovering individuals often give back and regain a sense of self-worth and purpose as they work toward maintaining long-term sobriety. This suggests that aspects of spirituality, including healthy interpersonal relationships and feeling deeply connected to others in profound ways, contribute to overall feelings of health, well-being, and meaning in one’s life.
If we can connect to who we really are and face the dark parts of ourselves that we invest so much energy into repressing, we would have the opportunity to shine a light onto our shadow selves, those dark corners of our minds where we store trauma and mad ideas, and experience them for what they are in the moment without judgment or denial. The disease of addiction is so complex, and long-term, interdisciplinary professional help is most often needed to confront and heal from past traumas and maintain abstinence and sobriety. I have a profound respect and admiration for those individuals who are committed to putting in the daily work that is often required to maintain sobriety, and I have a deep compassion for those individuals who are currently struggling with the disease of addiction.
Excerpt from the Spirituality of Addiction. Website: Mind,Body,Green
A lack of connection to authentic self, important others, a higher power, and the larger community can each contribute to feelings of isolation and emptiness, low self-worth, and a pervasive sense of unhappiness that can contribute to and/or perpetuate addictive behaviors. Being of service is a profound way that recovering individuals often give back and regain a sense of self-worth and purpose as they work toward maintaining long-term sobriety. This suggests that aspects of spirituality, including healthy interpersonal relationships and feeling deeply connected to others in profound ways, contribute to overall feelings of health, well-being, and meaning in one’s life.
If we can connect to who we really are and face the dark parts of ourselves that we invest so much energy into repressing, we would have the opportunity to shine a light onto our shadow selves, those dark corners of our minds where we store trauma and mad ideas, and experience them for what they are in the moment without judgment or denial. The disease of addiction is so complex, and long-term, interdisciplinary professional help is most often needed to confront and heal from past traumas and maintain abstinence and sobriety. I have a profound respect and admiration for those individuals who are committed to putting in the daily work that is often required to maintain sobriety, and I have a deep compassion for those individuals who are currently struggling with the disease of addiction.
Excerpt from the Spirituality of Addiction. Website: Mind,Body,Green
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Originally Posted by hopeful4
There were all sorts of oddball things that clicked into place when I started Celebrate Recovery, it was almost like an act of God that even got me there as I truly knew nothing about it and thought I was setting up a place for my AH to come to after rehab...ha ha!!
Blessings BC. Keep peace in your life.
Because he wouldnt go with you? And you went alone and found it helped you? I was curious because I was reading about them online and found where they hold it not too far from us and I called to inquire. I explained only a little but she said they had lots of couples that come together. They have a dinner before, a large group service, and then they break off into smaller sessions for the last portion where we would go in different groups according to what we are working on. It sounds like it is something we could do together and part of the reason I am interested in going is about the infidelity issues and working through my feelings and overall finding comfort.
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