Jend719

So, my RAD had court mon, tues and again today. The judge yesterday gave her time served, 6months worth of NA meetings at least twice a week on a conditional release. She has court again tonight. If the judge releases her she could be coming home 😳. She was supposed to get into an inpatient treatment program. Insurance reasons prevented that and her attorneys feel that she would sign herself out. Her attorneys also do NOT want her to have probation ....???????? They feel she would just fail out. So when she gets out, there will be no one to answer to. Just me and my husband and we know how well that's gone in the past. On Monday when I went to court I cried when I saw her in the orange jumpsuit and shackles. Sitting there with some really hard looking women. I just thought jeez she doesn't belong ...like sesame streets "one of these things is not like the other". Yesterday at court the ABF was there also, sitting right behind her (in jail also). They were arrested together so they both had court and he will be there tonight also. I wanted to jump that little half wall that separates them from the audience and strangle the crap out of him. She was smiling and he was trying to talk to her etc. it just scared the crap out of me that she will go right back to him when he gets out. She called me after court and our conversation was an extreme flashback of many conversations we've had before. We were talking about her fines and I said she needs to get a job to pay it back. Her:"well obviously but not right away. I have to get acclimated. You don't just throw yourself into the shark tank". This has always been an ongoing problem that she does not want to work. Then she starts with "they (NA) tell you not to make any major changes and get a job right away". I remind her they also tell you not to date someone from the meeting, not to have a relationship for a year, not to take rides from guys to the meetings etc. (all conversations we have had many times in the past over and over and over). She picks and chooses which rules to follow. When I got off the phone with her, I was so upset. I just heard the same old lines and excuses and it scares the crap out of me. My husband and I are going to visit her this morning which should be an interesting conversation. Two days ago I would've been happy she was coming home. That conversation left a bad taste in my mouth and now I'm scared.

Twofish

Dear Jend, Is heartbreaking isn't it? Our minds float back to when our children were little, sweet and innocent...not overwhelmed by addiction and the demon within. Please TRY (ya, that hard to do) to stay calm and don't get baited into her manipulation. It's not worth it, the pain that arguing with the devil gives us moms. IF you allow her to come home to live with you (you will) set strong boundaries and rules of your home. Add drug testing, meetings and IOP if she hasn't had it already! I feel your pain, so strongly thru the iPad. Prepare yourself to greet a different, angry child. She will blame everything on you and your husband. I chose to ignore it, when it came up. You can't fix this little girl mamma that you remember, only she can, when she wants to. Be strong, don't give in, so she doesn't want a job? Then she can volunteer somewhere instead of sleeping til 2pm everyday. Just remember your house, your rules, not hers. Hugs to you, TF

lizwig

Good morning Jend, I will send you extra strength today. Is there a reason your home has become the ONLY option? Even if your daughter isn't fully ready to commit to her recovery (which means being willing to live in an Oxford house or whatever) it doesn't mean your recovery goes out the window. Can you tell her you're working too hard on finding serenity again and feel it's time for her to seek her own recovery separate from yours? I've heard it said before if nothing changes nothing changes. I can't imagine what it would be like having my son living in my home again. I think I'd rather stick needles in my eyes. If he had long term sobriety and was actively working a program under his own stream....possibly. but being told what to do by anyone rarely ends well. Sending positive thoughts to you today.

Jend719

She has nowhere to go. She is under 21 so a shelter would make me financially responsible. We have no family here that would take her. I'm here at the jail waiting to visit with her. I'm having anxiety about even having this conversation about rules with her. My husband was supposed to come but is flat on his back in pain. If I hear the same old responses I think I will flip! Her choice will be to comply with our rules or be on the street again. That's it! There's no in between. I'm dreading the stress though! I was in ER on Monday with severely high blood pressure (177/99)... Think I'm a little stressed? Lol. I'll post after the visit.

Mountainmanbob

I would get hold of the courts
and
confidently let them know that you think

a strict probation would work best for her

ask them to write a note to the judge

note -- even though attorneys usually want no probation
the judge does usually put these ones on probation

also note -- as you already know
sounds like if she does not change her ways
there will be more of these trips to jail
possibly prison later

MB

Txhelp

What about a sober living home....they are relatively inexpensive. Maybe you could agree to pay the first month and she would be required to get a job and pay on the second month. She has to learn to accept responsibility and be respectful.

My young adult children have been offered sober living by their father. My son is in jail for a warrant and my daughter is floating around. Neither have taken him up on his offer. They ARE doing it their way. Guess what? I figured when they lived with me, over and over again, they ARE going to do it their way!

Hang in their give her a choice of where to live-whatever you decide. If she does come to live with you. Enforce those boundaries. You GUT is telling you that it's gonna be more of the same.

Twofish

Lizwig, You make me smile sometimes by the unexpected things you say...like" I would also rather stick needles in my eyes" than deal with a freshly confronted AV trying to bring everyone down and get the addict to be as she was. The pain a momma feels when her child is hurting, confused, sick with addiction and mean as a bull at times. My ADs, at many times, I don't recognize them, the words that came out of their mouths, the blame they give me, the worry I give me, all this wasted obsessive time that we waste on addiction when this precious time could be spent working on a relationship that has been severely damaged by their craving for drugs.
I have not come to the point of "kicking my ADs to the curb" as so many weary parents have done out of frustration and defeat and to save their own sanity, and I don't blame or judge these parents who simply can't take it anymore. I fear, but am preparing to do this if the frustration, lack of trying to be stronger than the demons, or if my mind and heart explodes, the gentle tough love gets put into high gear of TOUGH LOVE and I will turn this whole unwanted disease over to God. I'm not there yet, it may happen or not. But whatever happens in the lives of us mammas, NONE of this mess is our fault. Remember the three c's that helps me everyday.
Hoping your meeting went well with your AD, the conversation you will have this morning, will have some positive moments. Hugs to you Jend, I, as the rest of us, will be thinking and praying happy thoughts to you and your family. Take care (of YOU)!!! TF

lizwig

Well...I'm glad I made you smile TF...although I was serious. My stomach lurches to think what my house would turn into if my son was allowed back prior to recovery/working his own program. I've been dealing with it a long time though and have tried many things to get to this point. I do believe he is capable of so much more and am very aware that if I keep doing for him...he never has to do for himself. I prefer to call it "Strong love" vs "tough love". Tough love sounds mean. Strong love is more appropriate I believe. I am strong enough to know my needs and mental health are also important, I am strong enough to set boundaries and maintain them, I am strong enough to know and recognize nonsense when I see and hear it, and I am strong enough to say "I can't fix this. I cannot do his work for him, but I can encourage him to seek better for himself". Do I do this perfectly? heck no!!! But I'm trying, and I'm much more aware and find I have better conversations with myself as I'm working through things. I'm supposed to see my son over the holidays. I'm going to put invisible duct tape over my mouth to remind myself to LISTEN to him...I'm going to try my darndest to not "suggest" and only speak from my own position. BUT....if he is actively seeking feedback I will do my best to not judge, but offer solid options he can take or leave. We shall see. As we all know it may not even happen but I'm finding so much more peace in it this year. I've handed it over and if it doesn't pan out...I trust there will be a reason for it.

Jend, I hope your conversation goes well with your daughter. Please keep us posted.

hopeful4

Jend....are you sure about the financially responsible part? I am thinking if they are 18 and unable to support themselves they are their own responsibility.

If the courts think that she would sign herself out of rehab and they think she would violate probation...it seems like they have a reason for thinking these things??

Also..she may not hear this in NA but a condition of probation if she would get that is always that you are employed. I would let her know work can be the best type of therapy and it is time for her to pay back in society what she has caused.

I said this in another thread earlier today..but here we go. I was told recently that taking an addict's pain and consequences away from them is robbing them of an opportunity of recovery as they have to face those things to see that they even want to recover.

Hugs...I cannot even imagine what you are going through.

YouWillBe

As parents we always want to be the "soft place to fall" for our kids...no matter what they've done to need it.

BUT...there are only so many times you can use an air bag before it's done! Soon WE are the ones more hurt - emotionally (and physically...stress KILLS YOU) than they are. And WE are the ones doing all the suffering for them.

I told my daughter in our last conversation that this is killing me. She said "It's killing ME, mom."

I was tempted to say, but didn't, that SHE seems to be choosing it, but I don't want to be killed by her addiction.

We do see our children, forever in our minds, as toddlers. AND THEY KNOW IT. AND USE IT. AND GET AWAY WITH IT, BECAUSE WE THINK THEY ARE TODDLERS.

It's a vicious cycle. I finally asked God for a different perspective on her. To show me her in the same light as someone looking in who had no ties to her. It's quite eye-opening to realize the lengths we go to to assist their addiction, and the depths it drags us to. If it was anyone else we'd never, in a million years, enable the way we do. But just because the addiction is that of our child, does not mean it's any less damaging (and actually more so) when we put ourselves in the middle of it.

I hope things go in the best way for YOU.

Chino

Is her slacker attitude and addiction worth dying for? Because that's where you're headed.

Twofish

Hey Jend, Was just wondering how your talk went with your daughter this morning, some positive feedback or did the AV show up and show it's ugly opinion?
I also want to apologize for " poking my eyes out with needles"vs to confront a freshly unraveling AV addict, upset that it's not getting it's ways!, comment. I've been crying for many a day now, grieving over what can or could of been with my ADs, and when I heard that said by Lizwig, it brought a smile to my face and a welcomed positive emotion, that I really appreciated. It been a long time since this momma smiled, I do hope I didn't offend anyone.
Well, my 2 ADS are still in bed, too tired from staying up watching movies, poor babies, but instead of starting WWWIII I chose to let them waste the day away, I don't believe I will be tolerating this much longer.
Well, Jend, I hope (that little four letter word that means so much) you have a peaceful rest of the day. Hope is here for you, support is here for you and always your SR family is here for you, and don't forget to take care of yourself! Hugs!! TF

Jend719

TF..I was not offended at all. I thought Lizwig's comment was pretty funny (in a way only those of us here can understand).

The visit went well. No AV rearing it's ugly mouth. I felt a little better afterwards. I'm about to leave to go to court. She called me this afternoon to tell me that this court does not have a "hold" on her in jail. So i could pay the $250 bail and she could come home. Luckily there was only 60 seconds on the call left when she was trying to explain this.she called back and wanted me to put more money on the call to finish explaining but I didn't because if they let her go tonight why add more money? So I don't know what is going to happen tonight. Will the judge say "time served" and let her go? Am I cruel if I don't pay the $250 to bring her home? My hubby and I just don't know what the right thing to do is anymore.

I'll post after court.

jjj111

Jend, I can't speak to what it's like to be a mother to an addict because I have no children. I do remember that when I was dating a cocaine addict a couple years ago, I would often feel a rush of warm fuzziness when I complied with what he wanted--when paid a bill for him, made up with him after he threw a temper tantrum, bought him something he "needed," etc. Your last post for some reason just made me remember that moment in my own cycle of involvement with an addict. You sound like you are feeling a similar moment of relief from the heartache of all this.

It might help to try to think at any given moment about where you are in your own cycle. My own cycle went something like victim-rescuer-persecutor, and along with that sad-relieved-angry. Psychologists have actually come up with a term for this cycle--it's called the Karpman drama triangle. You might try googling it. Learning about it was an eye opener for me. The trick is to get off the triangle into a place of serenity! Good luck!

BeavsDad

Realizing and telling my son that he had become the person I had always warned him about, and that other parents should now warn their kids about people like him, was a huge first step in my detachment from his addiction issues.

needingabreak

(((((JEND)))) Dear woman, I sympathize with you! I pray everything goes well for you with your daughter. As you know my son, 30, is home with us after rehab and 30 day sober house. Yup trying to get them to do anything is an uphill battle and know in advance she will fight you tooth and nail on everything. Sta strong and make sure you have very tight boundaries. Yes, it stinks having to watch over them like a baby and watch their every move and nag the hell out of them for eery little thing. I will say a special prayer for you tonight. It doesn't sound like she is ready to dive in to reality and many aren't. They want to go back to a life of laying around and being lazy. My son works 32 hours. its not full time but its something. She can work part time or volunteer. My son is not allowed to sleep in late. Also his video gaming has been limited severely. I wish you the best of luck my dear.

Upsetnneedhelp

I tend to disagree as to addict are lazy. I know when my son was using he was consumed 100% with getting money to feed his habit. He was always on the move. He was a lot of negative things but lazy wasn't one of them.

Jend719

Jjj11...I'm going to google that. I've never heard of it but I'm interested in understanding that more. Thank you!

Needingabreak...I know about watching them like a hawk. I've been down this road with her before. The mere thought of doing it all over again exhausts me!

The rules are the rules and that's it. I'm "detached with love" enough to know and to be able to say that the choice is hers. I won't hesitate to follow thru with consequences. It may sound harsh but I'm not their "soft place to land" anymore. I will be there to support her as long as she is doing the right thing and trying.
So about court.....
She thought the ABF (who was also there) was going to exonerate her and take the charges. He pled to a lesser charge. She, therefore, had to face her charges. The deal on the table was 4 more weeks in jail or 3 years of probation. Her lawyer graphically explained the terms of probation and was very clear that she did not feel (as her attorney looking out for her best interest) that probation was a good idea for her. If she violates she will go to jail for a year. My RAD chose probation. She explained to her attorney that she feels that she NEEDS probation hanging over her head to keep her on the right path. I AGREE! So now she is released ROR with probation and another court date in February. If she gets in trouble between now and then the deal is off the table. She is still in jail though because she has a hold from another court who was just waiting to see what was going to happen tonight. Her attorney is going to try to reschedule it for Monday or just just dismiss verbally and possible be released over the weekend. Either way my life is going to change in the next couple of days. Needless to say my 13 yo is not thrilled ....she's still angry at her for hurting all of us so deeply. Although she does miss her at times. Her lawyer is going to email me tomorrow and let me know what's going to happen. Honestly, my head is spinning right now.

Upsetnneedhelp

jen, the fact that her lawyer advised her to take the short term jail sentence over the probation is interesting advise. But her lawyer probably seen many many addict quickly get re-arrested due to the nasty nature of drug addiction.

AnvilheadII

ya know, a LOT of kids under 21 go out on their own. my mom gave me the boot at 19 cuz I violated house rules. i had no job, no money, and I did just fine. your home is not her only option. the bit about AA/NA SAYING no changes for a year and no job is BULLSH!T. within a week of getting kicked out of my mom's house (she did let me keep my car) I had a job and a place to stay. why? cuz I was motivated to do so. mom was not my fallback plan....she made that clear. it was sink or swim.

all this court stuff, that is on her. if you think you are bad enough to do the crime, then cowboy up and deal with the consequences. the sooner one learns that, the better. IMHO.

you have a young impressionable delicate early teen at home. who is angry and upset because the older sibling who is causing nothing but trouble and grief, going against everything she was taught is getting all the attention and creating strife and chaos. what is the 13 yr old learning here? that child has a voice in all this as well....a future, a life. please don't forget that. i'm not saying choose one over the other, but the younger child deserves at least the same energy and attention, and to be heard.