My head is spinning!!
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Originally Posted by YearForMe 
LMN...
If you are going to stay....I think you might have to "get right" with yourself..in your own mind....about the relapses.
Perhaps a time limit. Shared with him.....or not shared with him.
And then just go with the flow.
If you don't know with 100% conviction that you are done and gone and out of there....
Then you aren't ready.
And that is a-okay.....
You are the star of the movie called "YOUR LIFE"
Act it out any way that is right for you.
If you are going to stay....I think you might have to "get right" with yourself..in your own mind....about the relapses.
Perhaps a time limit. Shared with him.....or not shared with him.
And then just go with the flow.
If you don't know with 100% conviction that you are done and gone and out of there....
Then you aren't ready.
And that is a-okay.....
You are the star of the movie called "YOUR LIFE"
Act it out any way that is right for you.
One relapse, two relapse, 3 or 4. One foot in and one out the door!!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PM me....
Posts: 468
This is what I hear......
I love, like and want everything about him....minus the addiction.
So....is he trying...truly trying to stop? Or is he devising ways to continue using?
If he's trying....then there is a good chance that he will get on the other side of this.
If he's just finding clever ways to continue using....then this is the NEW him.
I don't know how that question gets answered...whether you stay in the same house and observe....or move out and observe from a distance. Either way...I wish for calmness and peace in your heart.
...even tho I give you smart a** comments that are ill timed.......I am still here for you.
I love, like and want everything about him....minus the addiction.
So....is he trying...truly trying to stop? Or is he devising ways to continue using?
If he's trying....then there is a good chance that he will get on the other side of this.
If he's just finding clever ways to continue using....then this is the NEW him.
I don't know how that question gets answered...whether you stay in the same house and observe....or move out and observe from a distance. Either way...I wish for calmness and peace in your heart.
...even tho I give you smart a** comments that are ill timed.......I am still here for you.
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Originally Posted by YearForMe
This is what I hear......
I love, like and want everything about him....minus the addiction.
So....is he trying...truly trying to stop? Or is he devising ways to continue using?
If he's trying....then there is a good chance that he will get on the other side of this.
If he's just finding clever ways to continue using....then this is the NEW him.
I don't know how that question gets answered...whether you stay in the same house and observe....or move out and observe from a distance. Either way...I wish for calmness and peace in your heart.
...even tho I give you smart a** comments that are ill timed.......I am still here for you.
I love, like and want everything about him....minus the addiction.
So....is he trying...truly trying to stop? Or is he devising ways to continue using?
If he's trying....then there is a good chance that he will get on the other side of this.
If he's just finding clever ways to continue using....then this is the NEW him.
I don't know how that question gets answered...whether you stay in the same house and observe....or move out and observe from a distance. Either way...I wish for calmness and peace in your heart.
...even tho I give you smart a** comments that are ill timed.......I am still here for you.
Thank you!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 183
I am wondering if you have ever looked at why you behave the way you do with your husband. I read a few threads by you and sort of sensed a pattern, and then I went further back and it is there too.
You talk often about your husband, but the only times you seem to express contentment with him is when he is suffering in some way, or working to make amends to you because his behavior, his addiction, his efforts of recovery have upset you.
Its almost like you get a positive reinforcement (in being showered with attention from him; apologizing, begging, pleading, taking you shopping) when you project anger towards him (belittling, threatening, name calling, and maybe the worst – pouting and feeling victimized by his addiction). Im not saying this in a mean-spirited way, I really think it is something to consider. Most people only do things over and over, when they find the result pleasurable to them in some way. The current state of the relationship, and the environment that your both living in does not seem healthy for either of you.
You talk often about your husband, but the only times you seem to express contentment with him is when he is suffering in some way, or working to make amends to you because his behavior, his addiction, his efforts of recovery have upset you.
Its almost like you get a positive reinforcement (in being showered with attention from him; apologizing, begging, pleading, taking you shopping) when you project anger towards him (belittling, threatening, name calling, and maybe the worst – pouting and feeling victimized by his addiction). Im not saying this in a mean-spirited way, I really think it is something to consider. Most people only do things over and over, when they find the result pleasurable to them in some way. The current state of the relationship, and the environment that your both living in does not seem healthy for either of you.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
(((((LMN)))))
There are success stories, a lot of them. You will probably not see them on
here so much as the posters here have moved on with their lives.
The best place to find them is at CONVENTIONS, especially AA convention, as
they also have a large Contingent of Alanon at those conventions and many
times have a husband wife team speaking (One AA and One Alanon).
When I first found recovery, one of my sponsor's other sponsees was a gal
named Dorothy S. She had almost 9 years then. She had/has a husband
named Jerry that was a BLACK BELT ALANON. They were/are quite a team,
and did end up speaking at some conventions over the years. She now
has Alzheimers and just recently had to be put into an Alzheimers unit.
Jerry is with her every day. He will love her even after she is gone.
I have seen other relationships like that over the years, quite a few actually.
However, each individual had to KEEP WORKING their own program! And
they did and do.
Start looking for the 'winners' in your Alanon meetings, those that are now
dealing with spouses and/or SO's that are in recovery and they are still with
them at this time.
The 'winners' are there if you look for them. That will help you in your
dilemma and it will confuse you more.
Your really best bet is to make a PRO/CON list and it may end up several
pages long, lol Draw a line down the middle of a piece of paper the long
way, put PRO at the top on one side and CON at the top on the other side,
and then over the next week or two as you think of the good and the bad
write it down in the appropriate column.
Once you get to the point you don't think you can add any more, then you
can take that list and read it many times and start journaling about the
list, your answer(s) will come.
Hope the above can help you as it did me.
Love and hugs,
There are success stories, a lot of them. You will probably not see them on
here so much as the posters here have moved on with their lives.
The best place to find them is at CONVENTIONS, especially AA convention, as
they also have a large Contingent of Alanon at those conventions and many
times have a husband wife team speaking (One AA and One Alanon).
When I first found recovery, one of my sponsor's other sponsees was a gal
named Dorothy S. She had almost 9 years then. She had/has a husband
named Jerry that was a BLACK BELT ALANON. They were/are quite a team,
and did end up speaking at some conventions over the years. She now
has Alzheimers and just recently had to be put into an Alzheimers unit.
Jerry is with her every day. He will love her even after she is gone.
I have seen other relationships like that over the years, quite a few actually.
However, each individual had to KEEP WORKING their own program! And
they did and do.
Start looking for the 'winners' in your Alanon meetings, those that are now
dealing with spouses and/or SO's that are in recovery and they are still with
them at this time.
The 'winners' are there if you look for them. That will help you in your
dilemma and it will confuse you more.
Your really best bet is to make a PRO/CON list and it may end up several
pages long, lol Draw a line down the middle of a piece of paper the long
way, put PRO at the top on one side and CON at the top on the other side,
and then over the next week or two as you think of the good and the bad
write it down in the appropriate column.
Once you get to the point you don't think you can add any more, then you
can take that list and read it many times and start journaling about the
list, your answer(s) will come.
Hope the above can help you as it did me.
Love and hugs,
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Thank you Laurie - great advice!
Last summer, I went to a NA convention and the joke became, I was the only non addict there. I honestly did not meet one person who was not an addict, doesn't mean there weren't any, I just didn't meet them In fact, I had a different badge "guest" as anyone I saw.
That said, I had a great time. The speakers were amazing and the people I met were awesome.
P.S. I recently went to a birthday party filled with both AA and NA members. The joke there was I would know who was who by the following. NA members are huggers, AA members are hand shakers and "regular" people would just say Hi, nice to meet you. There was a lot of truth in that statement.
Last summer, I went to a NA convention and the joke became, I was the only non addict there. I honestly did not meet one person who was not an addict, doesn't mean there weren't any, I just didn't meet them In fact, I had a different badge "guest" as anyone I saw.
That said, I had a great time. The speakers were amazing and the people I met were awesome.
P.S. I recently went to a birthday party filled with both AA and NA members. The joke there was I would know who was who by the following. NA members are huggers, AA members are hand shakers and "regular" people would just say Hi, nice to meet you. There was a lot of truth in that statement.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 493
When you don't know what to do... when you are feeling so confused, unsure, uncertain..... don't do anything at all!
Just say a prayer - trust in God - trust in Christ - trust in the universe - and all will be revealed. But (and this is what I am battling with) it is not always revealed in the time we feel we need. Just trust!
Just say a prayer - trust in God - trust in Christ - trust in the universe - and all will be revealed. But (and this is what I am battling with) it is not always revealed in the time we feel we need. Just trust!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PM me....
Posts: 468
Originally Posted by LoveMeNow
Is anyone else seeing the pattern Daisydoc is?? Am I missing it??
I almost responded....
BINGO!
But stifled myself because it might be considered an ill timed smart a** response....and taken out of context.
I might have a different angle on this because we have talked in real life.
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Originally Posted by YearForMe
I almost responded....
BINGO!
But stifled myself because it might be considered an ill timed smart a** response....and taken out of context.
I might have a different angle on this because we have talked in real life.
BINGO!
But stifled myself because it might be considered an ill timed smart a** response....and taken out of context.
I might have a different angle on this because we have talked in real life.
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Thank you Ady Gil - I love your posts! They always come from an honest place - of hard work on your own recovery and it shows. You walk the walk as opposed to talking the talk and there is a big difference. Its easier to gain more ESH from posts like yours!
Than you again.
P.S. Just to clarify, I am not a child of an addict however I am a child of a nasty "war of the roses" divorce.
Than you again.
P.S. Just to clarify, I am not a child of an addict however I am a child of a nasty "war of the roses" divorce.
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,691
Hi LMN....
My ex was a crack addict. By the time we married he had been sober for 16 months. Then I was with him for almost 6 years. Immediately after we married he stopped working a recovery program. So basically, I was living with a dry drunk. Although he did not relapse in the time that we were married he would be emotionally and verbally abusive on a fairly regular basis....I think he used anger as his new drug.
The ups and downs that I went through with that remind me of what you are going through when your husband relapses. I really liked/enjoyed/was attracted to my husband when he wasn't in his abusive mode. I went to counseling, Alanon, Naranon, you name it to work how how to steel myself for those times and to work on me. Each time it happened he swore that it would not happen again. When things would blow up I would feel that I was on the way out the door. At different times I talked to a lawyer, made numerous exit plans, etc. But then....each time I weakened. He was so charming and remorseful that I got sucked back in each time. What we had was so good except for when it wasn't. It was a real roller coaster.
Although your situation is not with intermittant abuse but instead with relapses I still see a whole lot of the roller coaster for you too. I see similar extremes of "I'm not going to take this, I'm not going to live with active addiction" when he relapses and then onto the repairative stage....the makeup stage....the "I'm really going to do better stage".
It can be a cycle. One woman in my Naranon group was married to a man who relapsed from time to time. She clearly stated that she wasn't going to leave her marriage if he used...and she didn't. Year in and year out she came to meetings and went through multiple relapses. But each time he relapsed - something died in her and something died in her love for him. They stayed together but the relationship changed over time.
I think that it's probably impossible for it not to change. The disappointment, the feelings of distrust are bound to wear on even the happiest of unions. Right now, you really don't know if he is going to ever relapse again - whether it is 1 time or 100. There is no way to know. My ex went 7 years completely sober....took a drink and within 5 months had a crack pipe in his mouth. Relapse can happen and that is just territory that comes with addiction.
I know that I have said this before but I'll say it again....I've heard that the only way for a relationship between an addict and a non addict to work is if they both work a strong recovery program. My ex didn't and quite frankly, I outgrew him. I worked my rear off in recovery and the difference between us was obvious. To be together means a lifelong commitment not only to one another but to recovery. It's almost like you can't afford to slack off in your meetings any more than he can.
I think the idea of 90 in 90 holds a lot of wisdom. Especially after you have dealt with a relapse. (meaning 90/90 for you). It will help you get your head on straight about all of this.
I think that one of the things that daisy doc saw was the pattern of relapse and then renewed commitment between the two of you. The low of the low and then the relief of the renewed commitment/not having to end the relationship can be a bit of a high.
I know for me, it took however long it took. If he had not had the final "blow" that led me to leave him I would have stayed. One straw finally broke the camels back. I had told him that I couldn't take any more and that the next time would be the last time. I guess he really didn't believe me because I had cried wolf so many times.
My main word of caution would be to not make an ultimatum that you are not willing to follow through on....as in, I won't live in active addiction. Well, does that cover relapses? How long does the relapse last to be considered active addiction? I'm not saying you have to stay or go at all.....just be willing to do what you say you are going to do. I know what it is like to lose credibility. I had to learn how to say what I meant and to mean what I said.
I understand the one foot in and one foot out. I lived that way for 5+ years and I hated how it always felt to not know what was for the best.
My ex was a crack addict. By the time we married he had been sober for 16 months. Then I was with him for almost 6 years. Immediately after we married he stopped working a recovery program. So basically, I was living with a dry drunk. Although he did not relapse in the time that we were married he would be emotionally and verbally abusive on a fairly regular basis....I think he used anger as his new drug.
The ups and downs that I went through with that remind me of what you are going through when your husband relapses. I really liked/enjoyed/was attracted to my husband when he wasn't in his abusive mode. I went to counseling, Alanon, Naranon, you name it to work how how to steel myself for those times and to work on me. Each time it happened he swore that it would not happen again. When things would blow up I would feel that I was on the way out the door. At different times I talked to a lawyer, made numerous exit plans, etc. But then....each time I weakened. He was so charming and remorseful that I got sucked back in each time. What we had was so good except for when it wasn't. It was a real roller coaster.
Although your situation is not with intermittant abuse but instead with relapses I still see a whole lot of the roller coaster for you too. I see similar extremes of "I'm not going to take this, I'm not going to live with active addiction" when he relapses and then onto the repairative stage....the makeup stage....the "I'm really going to do better stage".
It can be a cycle. One woman in my Naranon group was married to a man who relapsed from time to time. She clearly stated that she wasn't going to leave her marriage if he used...and she didn't. Year in and year out she came to meetings and went through multiple relapses. But each time he relapsed - something died in her and something died in her love for him. They stayed together but the relationship changed over time.
I think that it's probably impossible for it not to change. The disappointment, the feelings of distrust are bound to wear on even the happiest of unions. Right now, you really don't know if he is going to ever relapse again - whether it is 1 time or 100. There is no way to know. My ex went 7 years completely sober....took a drink and within 5 months had a crack pipe in his mouth. Relapse can happen and that is just territory that comes with addiction.
I know that I have said this before but I'll say it again....I've heard that the only way for a relationship between an addict and a non addict to work is if they both work a strong recovery program. My ex didn't and quite frankly, I outgrew him. I worked my rear off in recovery and the difference between us was obvious. To be together means a lifelong commitment not only to one another but to recovery. It's almost like you can't afford to slack off in your meetings any more than he can.
I think the idea of 90 in 90 holds a lot of wisdom. Especially after you have dealt with a relapse. (meaning 90/90 for you). It will help you get your head on straight about all of this.
I think that one of the things that daisy doc saw was the pattern of relapse and then renewed commitment between the two of you. The low of the low and then the relief of the renewed commitment/not having to end the relationship can be a bit of a high.
I know for me, it took however long it took. If he had not had the final "blow" that led me to leave him I would have stayed. One straw finally broke the camels back. I had told him that I couldn't take any more and that the next time would be the last time. I guess he really didn't believe me because I had cried wolf so many times.
My main word of caution would be to not make an ultimatum that you are not willing to follow through on....as in, I won't live in active addiction. Well, does that cover relapses? How long does the relapse last to be considered active addiction? I'm not saying you have to stay or go at all.....just be willing to do what you say you are going to do. I know what it is like to lose credibility. I had to learn how to say what I meant and to mean what I said.
I understand the one foot in and one foot out. I lived that way for 5+ years and I hated how it always felt to not know what was for the best.
Getting there!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
I am still not engaging with him although I am not as angry or hurt. However, I am letting him feel the consequences to his choices. I am not taking any perverse pleasure in it. I am staying in my own space and not enabling. Also, I come here to vent so I can release the emotions I am feeling. I feel better when I get it out here!!
This is his 2nd relapse. Once after he went off of suboxone and this time - after his arm surgery. Neither time was a shock but still felt like a kick in the gut. I acknowledge that he continues to try and work on his recovery. He never stopped going to meetings or working the steps, the relapses were short and now he is seeing an addiction therapist too. I know he is trying! I know he loves me! I know he is remorseful about many of his choices.
All that said, addiction still scares me!! I try not to let it but it does. I continue to struggle with my fear of it. It completely changes him into someone I do not like.
If I took addiction out of the equation, I still feel very blessed to have my husband. I like and love him for many reasons and I enjoy his sense of humor. I think we have both worked hard on conflict resolutions, there have been no angry words exchanged in a while. When clean, he is honest, loving, and sweet. I do not think he is narcissistic, abusive, bipolar or selfish. (well sometimes, he can be but I think it a man/woman thing).
But I cant take it out of the equation. It is there and always will be. IMO, I would be foolish to think otherwise!! He has a disease that has no cure. It lays there waiting to strike. It is evil and I can not come to "acceptance" of it. Not today anyway, maybe never!!
I have been trying to stay in the now and enjoy each day as it comes. I really enjoy the quality time I have him with now because I had lost "him" for what felt like an eternity. However, I am learning that he is not my whole life, my happiness has to come from within me but I would be lying if I didn't say I like having my husband be the man I chose to marry, my best friend. When he was lost in his addiction, I really missed him.
I hate addiction and I hate drugs!! It steals the souls of our loved ones and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.
This is his 2nd relapse. Once after he went off of suboxone and this time - after his arm surgery. Neither time was a shock but still felt like a kick in the gut. I acknowledge that he continues to try and work on his recovery. He never stopped going to meetings or working the steps, the relapses were short and now he is seeing an addiction therapist too. I know he is trying! I know he loves me! I know he is remorseful about many of his choices.
All that said, addiction still scares me!! I try not to let it but it does. I continue to struggle with my fear of it. It completely changes him into someone I do not like.
If I took addiction out of the equation, I still feel very blessed to have my husband. I like and love him for many reasons and I enjoy his sense of humor. I think we have both worked hard on conflict resolutions, there have been no angry words exchanged in a while. When clean, he is honest, loving, and sweet. I do not think he is narcissistic, abusive, bipolar or selfish. (well sometimes, he can be but I think it a man/woman thing).
But I cant take it out of the equation. It is there and always will be. IMO, I would be foolish to think otherwise!! He has a disease that has no cure. It lays there waiting to strike. It is evil and I can not come to "acceptance" of it. Not today anyway, maybe never!!
I have been trying to stay in the now and enjoy each day as it comes. I really enjoy the quality time I have him with now because I had lost "him" for what felt like an eternity. However, I am learning that he is not my whole life, my happiness has to come from within me but I would be lying if I didn't say I like having my husband be the man I chose to marry, my best friend. When he was lost in his addiction, I really missed him.
I hate addiction and I hate drugs!! It steals the souls of our loved ones and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.
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