laurie6781

I learned very quickly when I first found recovery to REMOVE the word "trying"
from my vocabulary. Because whether I believed it or not if I said "I am trying
to stay sober" I was sub consciously giving myself an 'out'.

By saying "I am staying sober today." I was reaffirming my choice to stay
sober and clean.

Same thing when I started Alanon, again that word 'trying' started to appear
in my vocabulary and I had to remove it. "I am working my Alanon program
today."

In talking with other addicts and alkies over the years (those that remain in
recovery) they too have ERASED that word from their vocabulary, to me that
word is a 'cop out.'

And in saying the above, I ask, is your AH using that word to describe his pro-
gram and recovery?

J M H O

Love and hugs,

LoveMeNow

Yes, I think he does use the word "trying" sometimes Laurie now that you ask. I cant think of a specific though.

P.S. I remember learning that if you say "Oh, I can't forget to bring XYZ" - you are already more then half way to forgetting it. And by saying "I must remember XYZ" - you are more then half way to remembering it. And it does work!

Maylie

LoveMeNow, since you are unsure with what you want to do, have you thought about maybe staying somewhere else for a month or two? I know quite a few people that we're unsure of if they wanted to stay or leave, and after a month they felt confident in the decision they had come to.

and Laurie I too have taken "trying" out of my vocabulary. Whenever I said I was "trying", it usually meant I was actively using and saying that to get people off my back. Now I don't use trying, because if I am trying to stay recovered because it would weaken my recovery. Recovery is not a trying type of thing. There is a big difference between "trying" and "doing".

lightseeker

here again.....I had a few more thoughts about the relapse coming on the heels of the arm surgery. I had shoulder surgery 4 years ago and it was a really painful thing. I had to take a lot of pain pills. Although I did not get psychologically dependent on them I could feel my body starting to want more....it was scary to even feel that. Fortunately, I don't seem to be chemically addictive (relationships and food however....seem to be another story).

Long story short..... I think it would be really really hard not to have an addiction get reactivated under those sorts of medical circumstances. I work in the hospital with trauma patients and I always hate when recovering addicts have to use pain meds...I know the risk that it entails. But I also know that you have to control pain.

Recovering addicts and alcoholics have accidents and surgeries too and fortunately there is a lot of support in the "rooms" to help people through it. I'm glad that your husband is continuing to go to meetings and work with a counselor.

There was a time that finally came where I shifted in my worries. I think that it came after about a year of clean time. All that time I really worked hard on my own stuff and the more confident that I became that I would survive his relapse the less it used to scare me.

Sending you thoughts and prayers as you navigate this. I'm glad that you have this site. We love you "good" here and understand what you are going through.

supportforme

Sending Hugs and prayers for you and your husband. You've received some good advice. Take it one day at a time - you'll find the right answer for you.

LoveMeNow

Thank you so much again LightSeeker!! I really do appreciate all your ESH and "good" love you give to us all!!

I am so glad you have stuck around to share!! :ghug3

lightseeker

thank you LMN.....I used to wonder if I would still stick around once my ex husband wasn't taking a front row seat in my life. I am so happy that I stuck around....I love you guys! I think that basically we are just working on ourselves and trying to get by in this crazy life.

I also realize that even if I left I'd come back - might as well stay, huh? LOL! Especially since I have a 19 year old that loves his pot. Coming here helps me toe the line with my recovery program in regards to him.

I tell you....I get back 100% more here than I could ever begin to give.....

I agree....you'll get this sorted out in your own time and your own way. I love the saying that this isn't a "me" program it's a "we" program. Lots of hugs...

EnglishGarden

LMN, on your "here we go again thread" you wrote about the relapse. Did you ever let us know how you found out? For myself, I could benefit from that information. I know that it's very hard to spot someone on opiates, so I am wondering whether you just found the Percs or whether it was behavior that tipped you off. Thank you if you don't mind sharing.

LoveMeNow

I honestly believe God revealed it to me. There were no obvious signs at all. I had not even had my first cup of coffee yet when I just got that gut feeling and became anxious. I looked at him and told him that I already knew and God was showing me the truth. I asked him not to make me doubt myself or doubt God because I knew the truth.

He then admitted it and told me he was starting to withdraw already which is why he was up most of the night. He said several days before, his DR offered him another RX for his arm and he refused it (he offered to verify that for me and I refused). He said he felt good about telling the Dr no but then his mind went "there" after anyway. He claims his addiction kicked in from the day he has in the ER and more so after the surgery and he was struggling to stop it.

That's his story!

EnglishGarden

Thank you, LMN. Two years ago I had my last contact with my rabf. He had at the time 13 years in recovery from heroin. He is well-known in recovery because he has been a speaker at conferences, very eloquent, had stayed sober and been a good father and successful businessman. But he had a very bad accident, ambulance came, morphine was absolutely necessary. That was the day I think I lost him, though two more months would pass before we had an unexpected confrontation. I didn't see it coming. But he had started withdrawing from me, I had wanted to give him plenty of time to heal up and catch up on work, but it had been 3 weeks since he'd called or seen me. So I asked him, not angrily, when we finally met up in a park, if he had changed his mind about being with me, was that the reason for the 3 weeks of silence. He immediately deflected. Blamed. Said cold things which were right out of the blue. I was stunned. Really, just stunned. Speechless almost. We drove away from each other and haven't had contact since. Like they say here, no contact=no new pain. I am not about to go looking for someone who might be using, I know better.

But I have no proof. All I had were my feelings after the encounter. I shook head to toe for about three hours. Then the tears began to flow and I was just overcome with grief. I called my closest friends and without explaining in any detail, just told them I was in trouble and please pray for me. I shook, cried, was nauseous, all weekend.

It was so out of the blue. And for me, nausea and the shakes is what I feel when I am with someone in active addiction. Other people might hurt me or make me angry, but only addicts make me sick to my stomach and give me uncontrollable shakes. And that was what my body did that day.

I can't believe he would have continued opiates after the accident. I can't believe he would risk losing joint custody of his adored and adoring children by continuing the opiates.

So that's why I asked: how did you know. Thank you for the story. One day I might finish the rest of mine here.

LoveMeNow

Your very welcome English Garden! It's the least I can do for all your shared wisdom.

Oh, I believe it. I have heard a lot of similar stories. A few weeks ago, I was at jury duty and I happened "by chance" to sit next to the regional director of NA for my area. He told me that after having 7 yrs cleans, he got in bad motorcycle accident, was given morphine and other pain meds and went back out for 3 yrs and lost it all. He had just recently passed 7 kidneys stones without any pain meds. Ouch!! He warned me in so many words about my husband - this "may not end up well."

I know its not the exactly the same thing but I can only compare it to - when I quit smoking for 2 years, it only took one cigarette to get my right back where I left off, even worse.

Addiction is just that cunning!

P.S. I believe your gut instincts (the nausea and the shakes) were trying to tell you something that day at the park. In all reality, your exbf probably spared you a lot more pain by ending it - although it was still very painful. :ghug3

EnglishGarden

Yes, LMN, I saw an interview with Tom Arnold on the Dr. Drew show last year and Tom had, I think, 17 years sober but a motorcycle accident sent him back into addiction. He hid it for 3 years....opiates.....trying to get clean on his own but he said he couldn't do it. It took his colon rupturing (the constipation) to send him to the ER and the truth coming out. He went to rehab and at the time of the interview was working a program again. He said going to rehab saved his marriage.

My relationship didn't end, it just drove over a cliff, got caught on a branch, and has been dangling there ever since. Someday when my Higher Power opens the way, I will I hope get some kind of resolution.

I married an alcoholic when I was much younger, stayed through 2 years of pain and chaos, then went into Al-Anon, all those many years ago. But I have to say that being with an alcoholic was easier. Cleaner. The addiction was wide open and visible, I got it, and I recovered much more quickly. Drug addiction is for me an entirely different animal. I feel its stealth. It has left a poison in me I have not been able to cleanse away. I thought a man with so much clean time and who had worked such a strong program would be the most honest man I could know. I was very naive about the risks.

But in my case, I just have not been able to trust my gut. It seems impossible to me he would go back out.

I will learn from your story and others here with long experience of drug addicts. I can share experience as a recovering codependent. I know all about that side of the story. But I have a lot still to understand about drug addiction.

LoveMeNow

I pray I am wrong about him and "going back out" after his accident. However, it is a high probability especially since his DOC was already opiates. I believe God will give you the answers in time. While 2 years seems like a long time to us, it isn't long at all for someone who goes back into active addiction from what I have read.

I will keep you both in my prayers and ask God to reveal the truth to both of you!


I heard a speaker not too long ago, who had 30 yrs clean. During that time, he had stage 4 cancer and was given a lot of pain medication for an extended period of time. I kept wondering to myself how to did he maintain his recovery. I asked a friend what he thought kept him clean and he answered "Spirituality."

This speaker openly talked about Jesus Christ, his Lord and Saviour and refused to use the words high power in relation to him and his belief. I, personally, respected that!!

EnglishGarden

My rabf was not pursuing spirituality two months after his time on morphine and opiates in the hospital. He had decided to "divorce" his business partner and mentor, and within a few weeks had gone through 2 attorneys and was hiring the 3rd to get him the best deal in breaking up the partnership. He was feeling very aggressive and entitled and was completely absorbed with it. Not like I'd known him at all.

Our responsibility to ourselves is to not make ourselves a victim of anyone acting out in a way that damages us, and to try to work a stronger recovery ourselves. So for myself, I went to Nar-Anon meetings for six months to widen my view of recovery (I had always only attended Al-Anon) and I continue to untangle the ball of yarn inside me in therapy. My therapist says rabf is not in recovery. But I still just can't accept that, he has too much to lose. But my priority right now is getting my head straight and also healing from the wounding and the deep feelings of loss. He was an extraordinary man. I really do appreciate your feedback about the high probability.

I very much liked the people I met in Nar-Anon--most were parents of young drug addicts. I stopped attending the meeting, though, because one of the members--a young woman with some deep emotional problems and who was with an active meth addict--announced at a meeting with a beautiful smile on her face that they had decided to start trying to get pregnant. And I am embarrassed a little to admit it, but I couldn't stay and watch her grow a child. She had a service dog at the meetings with her and for months I had worried about the dog. I just couldn't watch her bring a child into such a painful life. I go only to Al-Anon now. But I miss the Nar-Anon people and I think this month I may stop in and see how everyone is doing. I just have to find the courage.

LoveMeNow

Drugs take them hostage and take over their souls! IMO, for a mother to lose custody of a her child - should or would be the biggest loss any person could experience. Sadly, it happens all to often because of drugs and more often then not, it still isn't their bottom!

Did you read The Trujillo Papers that Cynical One has in her blog? She wisely put a red bold caution to warn of the graphic nature and contains triggers. In some strange way, I even felt a little triggered and I hate drugs. After reading this, I realized the words cunning, baffling and insidious is an understatement and doesn't begin to desribe it.

http://www.janushead.org/7-1/Trujillo2.pdf

laurie6781

EXACTLY!!!!

I have had MANY health problems (surgeries, etc) that have required narcotic pain meds over the years of my recovery. Only the first time, when I was about 3 months sober did I give the Percosets to my sponsor and ask her to give them to me, and she agreed, as I was still fairly 'shaky' in my recovery. However, even then I had the CHOICE to go get drugs or alcohol and I believe because my dying during my withdrawal was still so CLEAR in my mind, I was deathly afraid to do that.

However, over these many years, thanks to my deep foundation in the 12 steps and living a 'spiritual' way of life, I have not had a conflict, even when during a particularly really bad time with my back, not only did my Dr come to my house a 9:30pm to give me a Demerol shot, she left 2 more with me to use as needed. I never used them, gave them back to her when I saw her a couple of weeks later.

I am not trying to make myself 'better' than others, what I am trying to show that no matter how much recovery one has, if one does NOT rely on someone/something 'greater' than themselves, then yes relapse is a definite possibility.

I have always identified as an alcoholic but don't kid yourself, the last 10 years of my drinking I used any and every drug that was on the market and used them in abundance, especially anything that was an upper, because ............................... I could drink more.

I have FELT over these many years, every time I have had to be given a narcotic what they do to my brain, and I remember the feeling and the 'take me away calgon' affect, but .................................... and it is a big but, I DON'T want that 'feeling' anymore. I have found so MUCH in recovery that has made my life pretty damn good, that I will not and would not allow a drug of any kind (including alcohol) to make me it's SLAVE again.

This is why "Relapse is part of addiction." Not part of recovery.

It all goes back to the A ACCEPTING to the very core of their being that the way of life they have been living and the drugs they have been taking are NO LONGER a part of their life. Until they can get this concept without a shadow of a doubt, then they are walking a tight rope.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

LoveMeNow

Laurie - this may seem like a dumb question but......that''s has never stopped me before, lol.

If you HAD to have 2-3 shots of alcohol a day for a couple of weeks, do you think your recovery would be at risk at all, especially in early recovery??

laurie6781

To be honest, I don't know, but I do know that I was TERRIFIED when I got out of the hospital and went to the Recovery Home for Alcoholic Women. I was so afraid of picking up ANYTHING, alcohol, drugs, after I read the ER record. You see I could remember what transpired for me to get to the ER.

I know I have shared this before, that Sunday Afternoon, June 7, 1981 when I was sitting on the concrete bumper at the back of the Hollywood Bowl Park, next to the left front tire of my dilapidated vehicle and the booze 'seemed' to be coming out of my pores as fast as I was chugging it down, I knew I was dying. I put the cap back on the Thunderbird wine bottle, threw it into the back seat with the others, and just sat there screaming at the top of my lungs "Please Help Me". I knew I was dying, but I wanted to die SOBER.

Then when I read the ER report and not only about how many times that day they restarted my heart but how I had been down the last time for 28 minutes and the ER Dr was writing the TOD on my chart.

See that is why I was frightened. I just knew I had no other chances left.

So yeah I think my recovery could have been at risk, but I suspect I would have done the same thing I did when I had to take the percosets and that was I actually doubled my meetings for that 2+ weekly period and was on the phone constantly with others in recovery. I literally 'rode' over any craving or urge or message in my brain about "I could have a few". I WANTED Sobriety more than anything else in the world. Nothing was going to deter me from that.

And, you have to also understand that my brain was still 'mush'. I was unable to read a complete sentence and then be able to tell you what that sentence said until I was almost 6 months into recovery. It was then I started my 'step work.'

Hope that helped.

Love and hugs,