lesliej

you have experienced way way worse than me Kelley! In one fell swoop!

I never even experienced seeing my ex high.

I have never discovered that he cheated on me.

he hasn't almost died, and I didn't discover him on the floor OD'd

I never want to "prepare myself" to see that/know that.

lesliej

You have experienced the lies Kelley. Or did he tell you before he went to a bar and picked up another woman and used? Addicts can often reveal part of the truth AFTER they have used...usually because they get caught...dead or alive.

TiredandSpent

Please don't think I'm picking on you. I hope I'm just providing a new angle to think about some ideas and assumptions you don't seem to be questioning. Who says you have to "prepare" for his problems? And when you focus on him and his problems and his feelings, I hope to guide you back to thinking about YOU, and your problems and your feelings.

Here's a test: for every hour you spend thinking and researching him and his problems, spend an hour focusing on you. Better yet an hour an a half.

You might find something shocking. You might find out that you can't.

There comes a shocking moment in every addict's life when they realize that they have a problem with their DOC. The DOC tricks them into denying DOC is a problem. It happens to codependents too. Their codependency tricks them into denying their 'caring and love' is a problem.

Addicts have trouble dealing with the reality of their lives and the DOC masks that; codies have trouble dealing with the reality of their lives and their codependency masks that. Addicts panic and flee into their DOC when life becomes too real. Codies panic and flee into someone else's problems when life becomes too real.

Addicts say: I'm going to go a week not using. Codies say: I'm going to focus on my own life for the next week and stop enabling. Addicts relapse. Codies relapse. If you want to REALLY know what addicts go through recovering from their addiction, recover from YOUR codependency addiction. See how hard it is. You'll shock yourself. A problem you didn't even know you had, can see or touch, can ruin your life and is shockingly difficult to overcome. Just like an addict.

I only say this because I was once you. BTDT. But if you feel like I'm picking on you or being argumentative, I'll stop responding to your threads.

KelleyF

Oh Leslie.....I think maybe its time to look within on this one. Perhaps you are starting to forget what you said about what your ABF did to you:

Walked all over your values, lied to you, manipulated you, verbally abusive, broke your heart (you were engaged right), he made you feel like YOU failed because you admitted that you tried to save him by devoting yourself to caring for him, lifting him up, and being his light. And maybe you didnt Discover he was cheating, but wasnt he a crack addict with deplorable morals? Didnt he disappear time and time again in your 2 years together, You know he wasnt being faithful. You just didnt catch him in the act and He didnt tell you.


My RABF has cheated on me. He didnt lie about his past drug use, he made me no promises; I choose to believe he was clean the whole time we were together because I saw no signs of use. I never saw him with drugs, or high from drugs. And in my opinion telling me he cheated 'after the fact' is not a lie.
I choose to believe that he was triggered and that he reacted and he made a choice to turn to the drugs; and in doing so he turned to the woman. It was cheating, but it wasnt a lie. I just dont see it.

GirlFromCO

I think knowledge is always useful, Kelley. I also agree with the gist of what is being said here... this is serious stuff and it's easy to get really emotionally involved on the forums, lol. I know I have done it countless times myself.

I would just say that if I had to do it all over again, I think it would have been more helpful for me to tell the addict in my life to call me once they had six months of sobriety under their belt. I wish my husband had told me the same thing when I was actively drinking. I think it would have been a wake up call, but then again, maybe not. Either way, he could have avoided the heartbreak that came from watching me self destruct and being completely unable to do anything about it. He could have avoided the lies I told him, the contempt I showed for him, and the times I very consciously manipulated him to get what I wanted. I could play him like a fiddle, still could if I wanted to, but I don't because I respect, love, and cherish him. I am able to do those things now only because I got sober.

Anyway, I'll step out of the thread now and mind my own business but please feel free to message me if you ever need to chat. Good luck & stay strong, I know it's not easy dealing with this stuff.

WMaxwell

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

The addict will demand that he is an adult and can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. Then he will get so drunk/high out of his mind that he wraps his car around a tree.

Then guess who he comes to to help him buy a new one. WIFEY. The next time he wants to drink/get high and party and you throw a fit and remind him about the last time, you become the person who "never wants to let him do anything”, “does not want him to be happy"," tries to control him". Then when he gets in an angry bar fight because he's so gooned up, guess who he calls to bail him out of jail?

WIFEY!

YUP! AH expect you to pick up after then when they make mistakes and if you try to protect yourself (tell him "No") then you are the bad guy, you are controlling, you are a fun ruiner.

TiredandSpent hit the nail right on the head with this one. I'm not criticizing Kelly because I don't want to see my RAH for what he really is either. It's HARD! When I've spent years telling myself that he loves me and convincing myself that he just does dumb things only to learn that he's a manipulative liar...

and even though he's in recovery I still don't trust what he says to me...

And if I point out something he's doing that is Addict behavior, he calls me crazy.

All I am trying to do at this point is regain my sanity.

You know what? I am a Christian woman, and being married to an addict has me so angry and bitter. Now, I'm about to have to start LYING to my AH to avoid being emotionally abused (he gets Psycho when I try to protect the money that I earn from him; his manipulation tactic is to give me half of his to pay bills, then when he runs out of money he wants whatever is left of mine, and if I tell him that I need it for gas or to pay a bill he goes nuts).

I'm talking too much. Kelly, we all know you aren't going to leave him. We all know that it's just too freaking hard to believe that this person you've convinced yourself loves you is completely incapable of "normal" love. I don't think this is something that can be understood by someone telling you.

It has to be lived through.

I'm still living through mine. My RAH had been clean for three years when I met him. He was clean for a year after we moved in together. Life started slowly unraveling as his relapse after we'd been together a year and a half led to another relapse 6 months later, which led to another one 4 months later, which led to another one 2 months later, which led to a weekly binge, which led to him avoiding his friends for a couple of months...then the bimonthly relapses started again. So he went to rehab.

It's freaking hard to get clean.

It's even harder when you are the person suffering the consequences of SOMEONE ELSE'S addiction.

KelleyF

In no way do I think you are picking on me; the questions you posed as to "why" what I've been through wasn't "enough" - I'm really going to think about that.

I'm not sure i like the implication that I'm emotionally unstable; But realistically from my posts ( I reread them all) I can see where I sound like it

I feel like I was happy and loving life; until I opened that door to find him on the floor and then my world changed.

Too sime perhaps; but that's how i feel

Hugs to you, and thanks. I know it must seem like talking to me is like talking to a rock at times; but it's all being absorbed if not accepted at the moment.
Besides, I asked you guys to be hard on me remember

WMaxwell

OMYGOSH, these are the wisest words EVER! Can I steal this?

KelleyF

Sorry for all my typos - I can spell -haha- but most of the time I'm on my iPhone- and it's keyboard pretty small...

KelleyF

It is a good comparison; except I actually had to have a series of rabies shots due to bat exposure one time . Yes seriously.

TiredandSpent

I don't think it's something that has to be lived through. Kelly can choose to investigate and research HERSELF and her problems and focus on her and what's making her excuse this guy and cling to him and what's missing in her that she's reaching out to someone clearly unsuitable for a healthy relationship and by fixing herself she can avoid the misery that awaits her if she continues with this guy.

However, if she continues to focus on HIM rather than herself, she will be choosing to to live through it. In the last 15 years that this guy has acted out his addictions and done horrible things to people, he's still single. LOTS and LOTS of women have taken one look at him and have RUN. They didn't have to 'live through' it with him. They KNEW right off, this guy's trouble and misery. And they knew it without SR, without anyone telling them, without having to first read a book.

Kelly doesn't know that, although the facts are all there for her just as they were for all the other women he's met in 15 years. And she doesn't know it because of HER. Because there's something off with her.

What's hard is not getting clean. What's hard is facing YOURSELF and what's wrong with you, and it's hard whether you are an A or a codie. It's the rejection of reality that causes the misery, not the A.

I disagree. You only suffer the consequences of someone else's addiction if you are biologically related (kids have no choice), you are victimized by an A (robbery or drunk driver gets you), or if your CHOOSE to. At most we can only blame one round of misery and consequences on the A; after that if we suffer, it's the consequences of our own codie behavior that causes the misery. Kelly has had her one round: infidelity and witnessing an OD. If he ever hurts her again, it's 100% on her. She has the choice right now never to suffer from his addiction again.

Instead of making that choice, she's gearing up for round two, researching and preparing herself. Why? It has nothing to do with him or his tragedy or how wonderful he is. It has everything to do with her.

TiredandSpent

Kelly, you said this in your very first post.

My question (and you aren't answerable to me, but maybe it's something for you to think about) is: why don't you respect him enough to honor his request?

Why are you doing exactly what he asked you not to? You are obsessing, you are trying to figure out the puzzle, you are worried, you are letting him off the hook, and he has failed you, but you refuse to let go.

If you really REALLY loved him, why wouldn't you respect his very reasonable and healthy request (all he's asking is that you not enable him, and he defines enabling: obsession, figuring out the puzzle, not letting him handle it alone, letting him off the hook)? He told you straight out what he NEEDS from you, and yet, you are charging ahead doing exactly what he asked you not to do. Is that really love? Can that possibly help? And whose needs are you meeting by charging forward: his or yours when you know he doesn't want this from you?

KelleyF

Haven't read all the post yet; but I think my RABF is getting mixed up with another....he is only 32; he was married and he and his wife had a child. The child died right around the age of 2 from cancer. Their marriage didn't survive.
I won't go into more here... It's all in my original post "New here..."

He has been divorced now for about 5 years.

So there was no 15 years....

TiredandSpent

Fair enough. So his father has told you about all the horrible things he's done for how long? How long since your fiance first abused a substance?

And he's been single 5 years, not 15, and that changes the concept of what I said how? The point was most other women see him and see a miserable hot mess of trouble they want nothing to do with. They run. You on the other hand choose to stay. This is about YOU not HIM. What makes you different from those women? Why do you choose to stay when the vast majority of women having the knowledge you have would choose to leave?

That's the point. 5 years or 15, it doesn't matter.

TiredandSpent

And rabies shots cure codependency and shield you from the consequences of making codependent decisions? Interesting, I'd never heard that.

KelleyF

I completely agree with this. Its like that saying "hurt me once - shame on you, hurt me twice - shame on me"

I realize this; why Im willing to get hurt a second time - this I dont know.

I can say its as simple as the fact that Im in love with him
and that I believe in him
and that I think he will get better and have no more relapses.
I can say that he makes me incredibly happy as long as he is off the drugs; and I dont want to lose that. and on and on....

But thats all pretty nieve and spoken from the heart, not the mind .
Thats denial of the situation isnt it? The reality of it.

So why am I willing to stay and prepare myself for round 2 ? I DONT KNOW

Chino

You said yourself it's because you're in love with him. Did you know that brain scans of people in love mimic those of active addicts? Brain scans of people who have been rejected or end a love affair, mimic an addict going through withdrawal.

laurie6781

Nope. You are in love with the FANTASY of what he could be.

If this is as good as it ever gets, him going to rehab repeatedly to get DAD 'off his back', and just continues to be the 'confusing' mess he is

ARE YOU READY TO ACCEPT THAT??

If not, better take the FOCUS off of him and put it on yourself. Because, it will either be him or someone else.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

KelleyF

Well, I didnt think HE knew I was doing this; however yesterday when I told him I missed him and had been thinking about him - he asked how much time Id been thinking about HIM and worrying. (Because he knew obviously) So I admitted; pretty much worrying and attacking the puzzle all day...... and then he told me that he had been thinking about me all day too.....but that he was only "worrying" about me maybe total of 30 minutes....the rest was spent on other thoughts of me (smart answer I know) But it clarified the point to me: we cant have a relationship if all I do is worry about him and his addiction, and forget about all the things between us that are unrelated to the addiction. I dont care what you guys say....he is smart.

KelleyF

See this is the thing YOU dont get; and I mentioned this before; this disease can often present itself like a wolf in sheeps clothing....because he was clean when I met him; and my attraction to him had NOTHING to do with rescuing him from drugs. They were not even a concern to me; done was done. I was happy with him 100% until I opened that door and found him on the floor. It was horrible - I cant even tell you how terrified I was. And having never been through this before - I was afraid that when EMS came - maybe the police would come too; so maybe the drugs shouldnt be there...so I had to deal with that....and then when his parents wanted to go to his place....I didnt want the to see it in the condition it was in; so I cleaned it up - I cleaned up the vomit and the blood and everything else...to protect his parents feelings. The whole thing was just ...horrible.