FT

If you were really serious about letting this kid go and making sure he doesn't violate your terms, you'd have hired a house sitter to live in the house while you are gone.

You should ask nothing, expect nothing. Give what you can accept won't be reciprocated, and leave him the hell alone.

The pathologic relationship you describe with this kid works both ways. He knows there are strings attached to everything you offer him, including the text messages. The sooner he realizes there aren't any more strings, the sooner the relationship has any chance of normalizing, if it ever does.

Only time and actions (or conversely, inactions) have the power to do that. He's an adult male in an adolescent body, and no amount of expectation of him to suddenly behave like an adult will make it so. Let him go. It's his only chance at being allowed to make his own mistakes and grow up.

FT

TiredandSpent

It's hard to hire a house sitter at 5:30 in the morning, 30 minutes before you are about to leave for the airport. It was not until then that I even knew he'd be in the same state as my house.

I COULD have the cops check it out. But I figure if he is there, I'll just kick him out again when I get home (altho I'll let the dog stay). Why cause drama long distance. Last summer when I was on vacation and he broke into the house I DID call the cops and they wouldn't remove him because it was a domestic affair and I'd have to get a court order. I'll clean up the mess IF he's there and IF he leaves a mess. We are going out to lunch with friends in a few hours.

I'm letting go. Not trying to control anything, even finding out if he's illegally in my house or not. Since there's noting much I can do about it except get riled up long distance, I'm not going to call the cops. I'm going to go to lunch with friends, and this evening play pool with another son. I'm going to make a dump cake for dinner and wrap gifts.

Or I can be on the phone with the police arguing with them that they have to remove him--and the dog. I have no worries about him stealing anything. If he does, it will be the first time he's stolen.

Which is the better choice? Calling cops or lunch with friends?

I see nothing pathological or 'hanging on' by sending him a Xmas morning text telling him Merry Christmas, hope you have a happy holiday, love mom. I send dozens of them. And I certainly don't expect to hear back from him. Unless he needs something and wants to manipulate me, I doubt I'll hear from him for the next couple years. I may never hear from him again.

I was just giving an update, not asking for advice. There's nothing to ask advice about. It's done. There are no further dilemas. I'll take the dog if he wants me to, and I'll let him come in the house and take his stuff. And that's it. There's nothing else.

It got very simple suddenly. Sad but simple.

Freedom1990

I strongly disagree given the last minute notice she had to work with.

TiredandSpent, I think you did great in handling it! Happy holidays!

FT

I'm glad you updated us.

Even though this thread is for you and your story, it really helps others who may be in a situation like yours but never post. Hundreds, if not thousands, of people read our threads every day.

It is amazing what can happen when you relinquish the fight. I've gotta tell ya, letting go of my sons has been the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. And I've had a LOT of hard things I've had to recover from.

I know you have let go. But does HE know that? That's why I mentioned the part about the strings. He's always expected strings. My guess is he still expects strings. That is not an accusation about your behavior, just an observation.

Maybe in one of your communications, especially one in which something is offered or given, there could be some way of letting him know that you expect nothing back. Then mean it.

It's hard to get a sense of it now, but the best part of your relationship is yet to come with your son. Especially if you can do those things.

FT

FT

I disagree, mainly because history speaks louder that intentions in this story.

Discord was expected, which TiredAndSpent alluded to. Planning to protect the house would have been a good idea, in any event.

FT

TiredandSpent

The house is not the greatest of my worry. Messes can be cleaned up and it's unlikely he's going to steal anything since he's never stolen before. I can kick him out again IF he's there when I get back; and I'm not certain he will be. Even if he broke in, he knows when we're returning, and will probably slink away before we get home.

Anyway, it's all working out. It's true I did expect some sort of chaos about this. I just didn't know how he'd manufacture it. As it was, it wasn't too bad; far worse for him than me. In a way I dodged a bullet. Had he left without taking the dog, I'd have been in a real mess. If it's hard to find house watchers at 5:30 am, it's harder to find someone to take a dog a half hour before you are due at the airport.

Lunch with friends was fun. Nap time now. Then baking with the rest of the family, a pizza dinner and going out to play pool. Moving forward, finding a way to enjoy Christmas with all I still have in my life. It's a sad Christimas, but not the saddest of my life.

Hanna

I think you did a great job of handling the last minute bombshell he dropped and of sticking to your previously communicated plan. I hope you have the best Christmas possible. It seems to me like you can at least be content that you are moving in the right direction with him.

TiredandSpent

I don't know what he knows. I suspect he thinks I've cast him off without a ripple of discomfort, like he was a used tissue. He's said as much in the past, but who knows? Maybe it's the victim-substance abuser in him talking, or maybe that's what he really thinks. Dunno.

I don't know how to let him know anything. He believes what he wants, and I think he wants to believe I don't care. And tells himself that. But I also thinks he knows I do care, thus he tries to hurt me through my caring. I don't know. It gets complicated, "I think he thinks I think..." Blech...

All I can do is send an occasional cheerful text with a ...love mom at the end, like I do with my other kids. If he shows up at the house, I'll let him move his stuff out of his room, and I'll take in his dog, until he can properly care for it. If he wants to visit his dog, he can come by on occasion and visit her outside (but I think he won't). If he shows up dirty and desperate and hungry, I'll hand him a bag lunch and maybe let him in for a shower. He's my kid. I'll feed him. We live in a warm climate, He can sleep outside for years if he has to.

I don't know what he thinks or how to 'make' him know anything. If I could make him know something, I'd 'make' him know that he needs to stop the substance abuse, get a job that's more than 10 hours a week and support himself. I do expect him to support himself. But I expect that whether I give him anything or not. I expect that of everyone.

IF he thinks there's strings attached when there aren't, HE's going to have to figure it out somehow.

Sunshine2

TS, I think you are handling this well and you remind me totally of where I was last year. Reading your initial post, right down to the crying and depression, you are describing me. It is as if we are attached to our children by a string and the string gets stretched and stretched until we think we can take it no more and then it suddenly snaps and we are free and we set our children free. You seem to have reached that point.

Realising it was not my job to save my son and that in spite of his accusations I did not cause his addiction, was just such a relief.

This is a hard time, the "getting him out of the house" period. I also had my son kicked out, then took pity on him and took him back and then kicked out again (eventually ). I know he will never get another chance to live with me.

I wish you peace and I am glad to hear that you are enjoying yourself and not letting the situation get the better of you.

TiredandSpent

Thank you, Hanna. I have no idea whether I'm doing the right thing or not. The wrinkle is (and I know with loved ones there's always a wrinkle) he's not hardcore. He hasn't stolen, he hasn't gotten violent. He's a snotty brat who won't work and smokes pot.

But is throwing him out just before Christmas the right thing to do? Is it too harsh? And overreaction to minor-ish transgressions? A move that will make whatever problem he has worse?

This is my thought process: I've been dealing with this fulltime since June and he's had six months to prepare. I've talked until I'm blue. I've offered counseling and meds and support groups. I've made it clear what the consequence of not working and pot smoking were going to be. And still he smokes pot in my house.

He was homeless last summer and hated it, it made him desperate and he skated on the edge of being jailed or suicide and led to stupid reckless behavior.

And yet...the memory of that wasn't enough to prevent him from smoking pot at least twice more in my house. So why should I care more about him being homeless than he cares?

Had he stopped the pot smoking last summer, but just stayed lazy and entitled, I probably would have let him stay a little more, except again for two things:

One, he told me twice he didn't care if his actions jeopardized my job. Since i don't care about his life, he doesn't care about mine. His pot smoking can jeopardize my job. I have a clearance with reinvestigations. Investigators knocking on neighbors doors and hearing that they can smell pot smoke coming from my yard is not a good thing. He's not allowed to jeopardize my livlihood and retirement and support I give to my other children. And I have an attitude about him reaping the benefits of an income that he's willing to destroy.

Two, I did help him to the tune of $2000 get to an important audition. I required that he buy his plane ticket to show that he was willing to invest in himself as well as me. He complained that I choose too expensive of tickets, I should have gotten one with connecting flights that was cheaper for him. I'd already paid for the trip and was angry and said F... you! I regret doing anything for someone as ungrateful as you. The next day he apologized and we went and had a really good time on the trip. When he said "I don't care about your job since you don't care about my (hypothetical) job." I said, what about the $2000 I spent on that audition. he said, "All I remember is you saying F... you to me. My own mother said F.... you to me."

Fine.

Not.

Another.

Penny.

Again.

So I figure I could throw him out of the house and be doing the disastrously wrong thing or let him stay and be doing the disastrously wrong thing--but it was easier on me and the other kids and safer for my job if I threw him out. And besides I'd tried for six months the having him around and 'working' with him and it didn't work, so it was time to try something different. And maybe drastic action early in the substance abuse process was good. And so I choose to kick him out... And I'm committed to that course of action.

It'll be years or never before I know if it was the right thing or not. He might be dead right now and I wouldn't know it.

I'd be okay with losing my job to save my kid. But I'm not okay with losing my job to save an addiction. I'm not even sure he's addicted but since he didn't seem worried about being homeless again if he smoked, I assume he probably is. Addicted to pot, who would have thought it?

I don't know what to do for him, but I know what to do for myself and the other kids, so I'll work with what I know, and that's to throw him out. He'll be 22 next week. He can figure out the rest.

Panda13

It's obvious you've been through too much. A lot of people don't think that it's possible to be addicted to marijuana, but it's possible.

I just recently ended a 5 year relationship with my boyfriend who is also a pot-head with alcohol becoming the other love of his life. He went to jail and once he was out he started going to meetings and therapy and everything in our relationship was better. Come to find that he was still using weed and alcohol and I had to end everything with him. When I confronted him about it, it was the same thing...lying, telling me I'm paranoid, more lying, etc. etc.

Now that I'm starting to take care of myself I wish that I didn't continue my relationship once he was released from jail. I should have realized and told him that we need to start taking care of ourselves before being with each other. Sometimes I wish love was enough.

I hope your son will realize that kicking and screaming to get what he wants won't get him anywhere as well as him getting help. Having him leave and sticking to your date for him to leave is a good thing. You've done what you can for him plus more and making him leave will hopefully have him reflect on his life. Remember to take care and love yourself, and know that you're doing what you can for now.

I've been on this site for only a few days and it's helped immensely already so keep coming back and know that there are people here that care. **sending you hugs and prayers**

butterfligh

Dear Tired,

You wrote: "If someone could assure me that he wouldn't die from the loss of my support, or wouldn't be further victimized, raped, beaten, etc... it would be so much easier."

As Moms, it is in every fiber of our being to want to protect our children from harm. But the fact is, we can't. Whether you kick him out or whether you continue to prop him up, the fact is anything could happen at any time. Even if you allow him to continue staying with you, will that ensure his life is saved?

I sounded a lot like you for the last 3 years...I have now detached, and I swear, I have more peace than I have in a long time. I went to my first Al-Anon meeting last night. Whey, why, why didn't I go earlier? I guess I just wasn't ready to admit that my mother's love could not fix my son. Now I know better.

FT

TiredandSpent,

I agree with everyone who has commented that you have done the best you can. You obviously love your son and have done everything you can to give him a good life.

It sucks when said kid doesn't care about any of that stuff.

I've mentioned before that I've been through this, but this thread is not about me. But, if I had it all to do over again, I would go back and try to be more of a parent and less of a buddy to my progeny.

I'm not saying you haven't put everything you have into parenting, so please don't feel like I am attacking you. It's just that I see you continually reporting discussions with him in which you speak to him as an equal, as though his opinion carries as much weight as yours does.

For some parents, that works. For others, even after our children become adults in their own right, the parenting role does not permit that. I don't know whether it is an ill of modern society, and sometimes I blame the baby boom generation, in which we ALL wanted to treat our children like our "friends". Lordy, did that backfire on some of us or what.

It is so much easier to be your kid's friend than his advisor. Being his "friend" is not parenting. No matter how much you try to communicate with him on that level, you are not his peer. And he isn't going to listen to you like one.

Kids are supposed to have the benefit of their own failures in order to grow. They are supposed to have their own pain in order to grow. When we try to prevent those things, we do them a real disservice.

I didn't learn those things until I had been through years of pot and crack and who knows what else, during which I witnessed people I love throw their lives down the drain. But it was only when I stopped trying to save them from doing that that they finally broke loose from my influence and, finding the real world at their disposal, did flounder, did fail, but then did something remarkable -- they learned to survive. Without me.

My heart aches whenever I read your posts, you sound so much like me 20 years ago. I hope you manage to get through this difficult time with your own sanity intact. I know mine felt threatened during some of the worst times.

Enjoy your family who are with you right now. You are probably giving your son the biggest Christmas gift he could ever get this year, by setting him free. He may not see it as a gift just yet, and maybe he never will. But you still have the rest of your own life to live, and it should not be lived based on what is happening in your kids' lives, not for one minute more.

FT

TiredandSpent

Well, I'm pretty much done talking to him about it--whether I do it right or wrong. I doubt I even have the choice, but wouldn't if I did. I really have nothing to say to him about the more personal aspects of his life. Just as parents don't want to know about their kids' sex lives, i don't want to know about his drug life.

I suspect he's early in the addictive process or maybe in the problem user category; I feel like I've taken action, right or wrong action, fairly early on (from reading some stories here where parents struggle with their child's addiction for years). But I don't really want to know.

I don't know a lot about what it's like to abuse substances. Last time I was tipsy was June 13, 2005. The time before that was in the early 1980's. I've never used any illegal drug, never. I don't know what it's like to be on the other side of the line. I only know way too well how awful it is to be on the outside looking in. How hopeless it is, how they will go down and take you and any other decent person they can find with them. How lives are wasted and nothing is accomplished and there's a whole bunch of unnecesary misery.

I also have had two alkies in my life and both times I went complete no contact. I already know that when the abuser is gone, life rights itself quickly. Peace and productivity rush in and you feel numb for a bit, but when that wears off bright good things roll in.

In my case cutting off the previous alkies was not a gift to them. I was the last bit of stability in their lives and they spiraled down quickly into insanity and wallow there still. I think one of them is a body without a soul, just keeps living altho not really alive or dead. So my experience is not encouraging. It's one thing to cut off a boyfriend or a spouse. It's different to send your own child out into the black morning with a backpack and a dog tucked under his arm to god knows what.

But my other kids deserve my time and resources, and I have the right to a peaceful prosperous life. We'll do just fine. He was endangering that. He may choose to let his addiction steal his life, but he can't choose to let it steal my life and those of my other two children. I won't let him, and this seems to be the only way to stop that.

So this is what we do.

FT

I presume the other alkies in your life were adult peers. Your son is not. When I mentioned a "gift" of letting go, I did not mean the former.

I hope your other children don't choose your older son's path. My advice about allowing them their own pain and failure goes for the other two kids, too. I tried to buffer my kids from those things, to their detriment.

You sound like a wonderful mother who does not deserve to suffer what you are currently suffering. I hope this Christmas otherwise has a lot of joy in it for you. I hope your other kids are not suffering too much pain from your elder son's behavior either. Families suffer through these things as a unit, and you haven't said much about that part of it. Hopefully there is good communication there are your other kids can learn from this, and not follow in his footsteps.

FT

Chino

You sound like my Mom, who is a substance abuse counselor for a homeless service center. She was tipsy exactly twice in her life and said never again, but she suffered the consequences of various family members addictions right along with them.

My Mom takes a hard line stand on substance abuse, and realized the dangers of it long before I ever did and even the medical/scientific community. It was her belief, from her experience, that anything that fires up the pleasure center of the brain could become addictive. Holy cow, turns out she was right.

We had a brief discussion about it last weekend. She's not against pot, she's against the abuse of it. She likens it to the one glass of wine for health benefits vs half a bottle or more for a buzz.

Anyway, at 73 years old, she's finally tackling codependency, and she's doing it with as much ferocious determination as everything else she's done in her very accomplished life. I'm so grateful she's doing that! Between my recovery and now hers, our relationship is healing in ways I never imagined.

I don't remember if you're actively working recovery from codependency, but if you're not, please please please consider it. I'm convinced that over the past year, my recovery work began affecting her in all the best ways. I didn't have hope that it would spread to all my loved ones, I had faith that it would and it has.

Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a blessed New Year full of miracles

outtolunch

We create, impose and enforce boundaries for our own sanity, not to control or save other people. A boundary let's go of other people's outcomes because we have no control over them.

FT

I agree with that, with the strong exception that PARENTING is a different issue. As parents, we have the obligation to create, impose and enforce boundaries to control (and sometimes save) the defenseless little ones in our charge who are not capable of understanding the threats or appreciating the opportunities before them.

As I said above, I was not referring to the ex's in the life of TiredandSpent. Adults can and must rely on their own survival skills.

Children learn to rely on their own survival skills as they grow into adults. Carefully letting go of them over time allows them to make mistakes in a protected environment. Later on, even that disappears, and then they have their own, separate, lives to succeed or fail, in their own right.

Some parents never learn to let go, never allow their children to suffer pain, never allow their children to learn failure and therefore never learn the feeling of actual success. That is harmful to the growth of our children.

As Chino describes, even the child of a substance abuse counselor can fall into addiction. It is wonderful to hear that has turned around and they can heal their relationship even at the age of 73, with an adult child in recovery.

I think somehow my message for you and your son is being misunderstood. I am simply supporting and encouraging the letting go of this man-child, so he can make his mistakes, so he can truly become an adult, so he can fail if that is what he is hell bent on doing. Or not. I guess you'll see.

What I hear is a mother in terrible pain for the love of her child. It is a fine line between childhood and adulthood. Much as language changes over generations, so do we. We are not our children's generation. We don't even speak the same language, on many levels. I have adult men-children and understand the issues in more ways than I want to admit.

TiredandSpent, you should be exceedingly proud of the job you did raising your son. Nothing you have given is really lost, I hope you know that. It hurts to see your son retreating into the blackness, not knowing his fate. But it is his fate nonetheless.

Be proud, try to stay strong, and know you are doing the right thing. For that you should be very proud.

FT

butterfligh

Dear Tired,

"If someone could assure me that he wouldn't die from the loss of my support, or wouldn't be further victimized, raped, beaten, etc... it would be so much easier."

None of us have the power to keep our loved ones from harm. Even if you keep supporting him, you cannot protect him every minute. Guilt and self-blame does no one any good.

In my opinion, you still believe you can "fix" him if YOU try hard enough. I have been there. I feel that my son graduating from high school is one of MY biggest achievements! Guess what? 2.5 years later, he's done nothing of consequence, except be a drug addict. But I had to try, and try, and try, before I finally let go. Detachment will come when you're ready.

TiredandSpent

Today was his birthday.



I have 3 other kids and I've missed bdays with them because they were at camps or overseas study. But I knew where they were. I knew they were pursuing something they loved. I knew they were all right.

This one has just disappeared.

I was busy all day, a brunch with family; the Sherlock Holmes movie; dinner with other family; a Eucre party; a late night run out to Target for last minute shopping. Now I'm done, everyone is in bed or occupied in other parts of the house. It's quiet. And I'm remembering another quiet 22 years ago, six hours after my first baby was born, and all the excitement was over and the baby was settled in with me, and I was all cleaned up and comfortable, and all the guests were gone and my husband went home, and it was just him and me in a dim hospital room, and everything was quiet like this. And he and I just looked at each other and cuddled and nursed quietly.

I never thought, never dreamed 22 years later almost to the minute ....

I'm going to cry now for about a half hour, then take a shower, then read my Catherine the Great book until I fall asleep in bed.

My other kids are doing fine, they aren't going to follow in his steps. One's in law school and loves every second of it. The other is preparing for the Naval Academy at Annapolis where he's going next Aug to study nuclear engineering and it's just perfect for him. And my daughter has a different father and is doing well in school and is happy and productive. Everyone's saddened and troubled by their brother alternating between thinking he's a dick (because he lies and has attitude and has infuriating addict logic) and pitying him (my engineer son once criticized the oldest, and my daughter said, Do you want to be Jeff? Heck, even Jeff doesn't want to be Jeff). I have no reason to be concerned that they will follow his footsteps.

Happy Birthday Jeff, where ever you are.