Do alcoholics really love us?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Del Rio, TX
Posts: 380
I think they alcoholic "thinks" they love us. But the alcoholic mind and emotional state is so convoluted and twisted there is never any way to know.
The numbers reveal an interesting truth. Of the very few alcoholics who find long lasting recovery, it seems to me many leave their spouse. The "sober" version realizes they have been lying to themselves the whole time.
Since the mental health community counsels my wife on her very first visit that once she gets sober she "may not like that guy anymore", I suggest it may be more common that we know.
My answer to the original poster's question is: No, they don't love us. they don't know how to love in the way we love. After almost 6 years, this post is just as relevant today.
The numbers reveal an interesting truth. Of the very few alcoholics who find long lasting recovery, it seems to me many leave their spouse. The "sober" version realizes they have been lying to themselves the whole time.
Since the mental health community counsels my wife on her very first visit that once she gets sober she "may not like that guy anymore", I suggest it may be more common that we know.
My answer to the original poster's question is: No, they don't love us. they don't know how to love in the way we love. After almost 6 years, this post is just as relevant today.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
I have to agree with Learn2Live and throw my 2 cents in. Of course they love us, but in their way, not our version of it. Who am I to define what love looks like to my husband? That's his job to define it for himself.
But many posters are correct in that the way they show love is warped as long as they are actively using.
zrx1200R - sounds a bit unfair to tell someone that on their first visit - wonder why that happened?
But many posters are correct in that the way they show love is warped as long as they are actively using.
zrx1200R - sounds a bit unfair to tell someone that on their first visit - wonder why that happened?
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hoosier Daddy?
Posts: 63
I haven't read this entire thread so apologize in advance if I'm repeating something already stated. It is a question close to my heart, however, and wanted to share, if for no other reason, than to better articulate my own inner workings.
I used to work as a counselor/chemical dependency professional. Not that it qualifies me for a medal or anything, but my experience did help me in learning to articulate my own answer as to whether or not an addict is capable of love. My entry into the field was birthed as so many people I met along the way professionally... so many of us had experienced addiction or dysfuntion of some sort in our previous lives, which led us to either 'save the world' or escape the dysfunction by becoming professionally adept at dealing with it. In short, it was often past, personal experiences that led to further understanding professionally. Don't get me wrong, it is not a distasteful field full of people wishing to 'work out' there own issues. In fact, it was the greatest professional experience of my life and is the foundation for who I am today, for which I feel blessed.
I say all that to illustrate I have been blessed with the experience as both a professional and as a loved one/personally as I've had 3 addicts 'grace' my personal world. And as everyone here can testify... it's different when it's personal. At one point in my professional career, there came a time I had to confront the question posed and it led to, which I knew even at the time, would lead to great personal growth.
The answer I've learned to articulate for me is that, yes, alcoholics/addicts are capable of loving those who encompass their world. The growth for me was in learning to recognize the QUALITY of love being expressed. I have learned, and accept, there are individuals capable of expressing a greater QUALITY of love than others based upon maturity, experiences, and past 'damages'... or lack of 'damages'. I learned to afford everyone the dignity/respect of being able to express love. However, as a recovering codependant, I am also now capable of this simple thought... "Yes, xxxx loves me... but what is the QUALITY of their love"? It's by looking at the QAULITY of love in relationship with another that removes my imagination, fears, and insecurities from the equation and focuses me on whether or not I can ACCEPT the degree of love being shown to me. Do I require a better QUALITY of love? Am I deserving, and perhaps even personally capable, of expressing a more functional/better QUALITY of love?
My own experience has led me from putting the focus on someone else's thoughts and inner-workings to placing the focus on me... MY thoughts, needs, inner-workings, and acceptance. It's helped me to acknowledge there is love extended from everyone, it's just the QUALITY of love I allow into my life that determines my serenity. Sometimes in life, I'm certainly capable of stepping-up my own quality... and sometimes in life, I've found 'dumbing-it-down' and accepting less has led to false security and pseudo-serenity via my embrace of familiar chaos.
"It's not about finding the 'right' person, it's about being the 'right' person".
Thanks for letting me share.
Many Blessings,
Shaman
I used to work as a counselor/chemical dependency professional. Not that it qualifies me for a medal or anything, but my experience did help me in learning to articulate my own answer as to whether or not an addict is capable of love. My entry into the field was birthed as so many people I met along the way professionally... so many of us had experienced addiction or dysfuntion of some sort in our previous lives, which led us to either 'save the world' or escape the dysfunction by becoming professionally adept at dealing with it. In short, it was often past, personal experiences that led to further understanding professionally. Don't get me wrong, it is not a distasteful field full of people wishing to 'work out' there own issues. In fact, it was the greatest professional experience of my life and is the foundation for who I am today, for which I feel blessed.
I say all that to illustrate I have been blessed with the experience as both a professional and as a loved one/personally as I've had 3 addicts 'grace' my personal world. And as everyone here can testify... it's different when it's personal. At one point in my professional career, there came a time I had to confront the question posed and it led to, which I knew even at the time, would lead to great personal growth.
The answer I've learned to articulate for me is that, yes, alcoholics/addicts are capable of loving those who encompass their world. The growth for me was in learning to recognize the QUALITY of love being expressed. I have learned, and accept, there are individuals capable of expressing a greater QUALITY of love than others based upon maturity, experiences, and past 'damages'... or lack of 'damages'. I learned to afford everyone the dignity/respect of being able to express love. However, as a recovering codependant, I am also now capable of this simple thought... "Yes, xxxx loves me... but what is the QUALITY of their love"? It's by looking at the QAULITY of love in relationship with another that removes my imagination, fears, and insecurities from the equation and focuses me on whether or not I can ACCEPT the degree of love being shown to me. Do I require a better QUALITY of love? Am I deserving, and perhaps even personally capable, of expressing a more functional/better QUALITY of love?
My own experience has led me from putting the focus on someone else's thoughts and inner-workings to placing the focus on me... MY thoughts, needs, inner-workings, and acceptance. It's helped me to acknowledge there is love extended from everyone, it's just the QUALITY of love I allow into my life that determines my serenity. Sometimes in life, I'm certainly capable of stepping-up my own quality... and sometimes in life, I've found 'dumbing-it-down' and accepting less has led to false security and pseudo-serenity via my embrace of familiar chaos.
"It's not about finding the 'right' person, it's about being the 'right' person".
Thanks for letting me share.
Many Blessings,
Shaman
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 283
Quoting harleygirl: They love and they love deeply, but they don't know how to express it because alcoholism has kept them emotionally imature.
They CHOSE alcohol every step of the way. They CHOSE emotional immaturity. Alcoholism did not keep them anywhere they did not CHOOSE to be. THEY are the problem, not their alcoholism.
Spoken with kindness..............
They CHOSE alcohol every step of the way. They CHOSE emotional immaturity. Alcoholism did not keep them anywhere they did not CHOOSE to be. THEY are the problem, not their alcoholism.
Spoken with kindness..............
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 49
IMO, my STBAXW does not love herself which makes her unable to truly love anyone else (except alcohol). She basically lied, cheated and manipulated the entire time I have known her but I had no idea the extent until only recently. It seems while they are using they simply seek "marks" to help perpetuate their lifestyle. This sounds harsh, but this is my experience.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 447
Originally Posted by passionfruit 
Quoting harleygirl: They love and they love deeply, but they don't know how to express it because alcoholism has kept them emotionally imature.
They CHOSE alcohol every step of the way. They CHOSE emotional immaturity. Alcoholism did not keep them anywhere they did not CHOOSE to be. THEY are the problem, not their alcoholism.
Spoken with kindness..............
They CHOSE alcohol every step of the way. They CHOSE emotional immaturity. Alcoholism did not keep them anywhere they did not CHOOSE to be. THEY are the problem, not their alcoholism.
Spoken with kindness..............
To choose something so bad over a healthy family, a good wife...well I just can't believe that.
To me...it's a disease. It's genetic but yet learned as well. I'm not an alcoholic but I married one...and I was born to one...so... I can't help but believe it's a disease of the mind and body.
But that's just me.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by blwninthewind
I don't think they choose this life. If I believed that it would really break my heart. Who in their right mind would choose the life of an alcoholic and all the pain suffering that comes with it.
To choose something so bad over a healthy family, a good wife...well I just can't believe that.
To me...it's a disease. It's genetic but yet learned as well. I'm not an alcoholic but I married one...and I was born to one...so... I can't help but believe it's a disease of the mind and body.
But that's just me.
To choose something so bad over a healthy family, a good wife...well I just can't believe that.
To me...it's a disease. It's genetic but yet learned as well. I'm not an alcoholic but I married one...and I was born to one...so... I can't help but believe it's a disease of the mind and body.
But that's just me.
I am amazed, however, at the amount of posts AND views this thread has gotten. Must be a burning question those of us involved with addicts have. I know I struggle with it everyday. Can't tell you how many times my RAH says "I love you" and the voice inside my head is screaming, "BS! BS!" (only the whole word, not the initials!)
But...I do believe he loves me as best he can, one day at a time.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 287
I think they are in love with the idea of you at the beginning while the relationship is still in the "honeymoon phase" when everyone is on their best behavior and you dont require much from them. Its all a breeze. As soon as this period is over and you start needing more emotionally, financially and socially from them they start to pull away and distance themselves and slowly become more withdrawn and start to love you less. You are expecting them to love you back on an adult level and they never can. Its more of a give and take kind of thing. They love what you can do for them and if you stop giving them exactly what they want, they hate you for it. Its a childish kind of love. They love the "idea of you" in that you can help them exist in this world, but when you stop helping them exist, they dont love you. That was my experience with my XABF. It may not apply to everyone.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Rockford IL
Posts: 1
In love with an alcoholic 
Two alcoholics don't help any situation. I have seen it too many times with my mom and my fiance. They get to fussing and fighting all night and i can't get any peace nor sleep. I have had to deal with my mothers alcoholisum for most of my life. I think am emotionally messed up in the head. *trying to forget painful memories* I try walking away and i just end up in a bigger problem. That method doesn't work if you have nowhere to go. It may work for some people but not all, especailly me. I am recovering off weed. July 16th 2011 will be one month. I have tried quiting so many times. Now nothing and noone can stop me. I just wish my beloved mother and fiance would quit for good. That would make life so much easier. I don't drink everyday, i have one every once in a while on occasion. But when i do i get sick and a huge head ache so its pretty pointless and i could drop it in a heart beat. Alcohol always causes drama. I keep praying that they will stop before it's too late 
I feel like crying my eyes out. My mom tried smoking a joint in front of me and i pulled it out her mouth and flushed it down the toilet. That only made her yell more. Yet i am quite happy with myself that i did it. I have overcome temptation and they can too. Furthermore i wish the government would ban alcohol and cigarettes like the did all the illegal drugs. Or ban certain people from buying and drinking alcohol. It's so stupid of a person to go out and drink and drive. I consider it attempted suicide/homicide
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
For someone to love they need to love themselves firts
So I don't think any addict can truly LOVE in the way I understand love
Just as I didn't love the addict as I had no love for myself.
Empathy, or whatever, but love? no, we can't give what we don't have, IMHO
So I don't think any addict can truly LOVE in the way I understand love
Just as I didn't love the addict as I had no love for myself.
Empathy, or whatever, but love? no, we can't give what we don't have, IMHO
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 75
Interesting topic..
How can a AH possibly love anyone when the cant love themselves.
Self worth eminates from within, A Ah destroys everything in her life and we try and think about the word LOVE..
A lot of slack is being cut Re disease and cant help it. Sobrietry like all things is a choice and only a person self worth and love for themselves can seek a better life than drinking.
I decided I deserve better some time ago and I love myself now and I can tell you - life is joyous without the AH in it.
How can a AH possibly love anyone when the cant love themselves.
Self worth eminates from within, A Ah destroys everything in her life and we try and think about the word LOVE..
A lot of slack is being cut Re disease and cant help it. Sobrietry like all things is a choice and only a person self worth and love for themselves can seek a better life than drinking.
I decided I deserve better some time ago and I love myself now and I can tell you - life is joyous without the AH in it.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Life is indeed joyous without any addictions, in my case addiction to suffering or to other people's approval ... this, to me, is freedom...
Focusing on loving myself and in the love between I and Nature, the Universe, HP etc has me too busy already to wonder what someone may or might not have felt at a specific point in time ....
I used to repeat this like a parrot... now it feels real to me..
Focusing on loving myself and in the love between I and Nature, the Universe, HP etc has me too busy already to wonder what someone may or might not have felt at a specific point in time ....
I used to repeat this like a parrot... now it feels real to me..
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,334
I love that Alanon bookmark- "Just for Today"......I read somewhere alcoholics/addicts lose the ability to feel guilt and remorse. I agree with the suggestion they are immature. I love the Zen quote- "let go or be dragged"........it helped me to finally let totally go.....my XAH was in active addiction and not getting better.....had porn addiction too which was a dealbreaker/ another issue I could not handle. I never learned boundaries in my first family. Now I have them.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
Posts: 319
I read, not too long ago, that love means giving without any expectation of anything in return. I don't know about you, but I'm not there yet.
When my wife was drinking, especially at the point where it became clear that she'd rather drink than spend time with me, I felt incredibly rejected.
And yet I stayed. I became bitter, cynical, sarcastic. I withdrew my love. But I stayed. I felt isolated, and numb, and angry. And I stayed.
When my wife started her recovery, I started going to Al-Anon meetings. At first, I think I was looking for a little healing. I was looking for people who would listen and understand. I learned that I didn't cause it, I couldn't cure it, and I can't control it..........and then I was like "Whoa! Then why am I here?" And that's when I had to confront the possibility that maybe she wasn't the only one with a problem (of course she'd been telling me that for years.)
And the first problem that occurred to me was "Why did I stay?" Why did I build that prison for myself and endure all of that misery?
I'm not sure I know the whole answer but here's a piece of it: Other than my grandparents, my wife was the only person in my life who did love me. And I think that as poor as the quality of that love got over time, I was terrified of giving it up.
In the two years since I started my recovery, I think I've learned that I can't (and shouldn't) depend on other people for my own happiness. And I've learned that I'm not responsible for my wife's happiness.
That may sound radical or even selfish, but where does your happiness come from? I believe that my happiness comes from inside me. If I'm relying on people, places and things to make me happy...then am I really any better off than the alcoholic who relies on alcohol for her happiness?
When my wife was drinking, especially at the point where it became clear that she'd rather drink than spend time with me, I felt incredibly rejected.
And yet I stayed. I became bitter, cynical, sarcastic. I withdrew my love. But I stayed. I felt isolated, and numb, and angry. And I stayed.
When my wife started her recovery, I started going to Al-Anon meetings. At first, I think I was looking for a little healing. I was looking for people who would listen and understand. I learned that I didn't cause it, I couldn't cure it, and I can't control it..........and then I was like "Whoa! Then why am I here?" And that's when I had to confront the possibility that maybe she wasn't the only one with a problem (of course she'd been telling me that for years.)
And the first problem that occurred to me was "Why did I stay?" Why did I build that prison for myself and endure all of that misery?
I'm not sure I know the whole answer but here's a piece of it: Other than my grandparents, my wife was the only person in my life who did love me. And I think that as poor as the quality of that love got over time, I was terrified of giving it up.
In the two years since I started my recovery, I think I've learned that I can't (and shouldn't) depend on other people for my own happiness. And I've learned that I'm not responsible for my wife's happiness.
That may sound radical or even selfish, but where does your happiness come from? I believe that my happiness comes from inside me. If I'm relying on people, places and things to make me happy...then am I really any better off than the alcoholic who relies on alcohol for her happiness?
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 146
I sometimes think that their internal interpretation of what 'love' is is really a feeling of 'need'. Since they aren't really capable of participating in a healthy love their feelings may be based more on a feeling of needing someone. Which starts a whole new topic of - what is love?
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