Do alcoholics really love us?
I AM CANADIAN
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 2,578
Originally Posted by Gabe 
This begs the question...
Why do we continually look for what we need from people who are unable to give it to us?
I can ask this question.
I did this for years.
Looked for, asked for, did everything but put up billboards announcing what I needed.
It still didn't happen.
Then finally I had a lightbulb moment.
That being, I needed to surround myself with people who COULD give me what I needed in a relationship.
Once I finally turned that corner, life has been working a hell of a lot better for me.
Why do we continually look for what we need from people who are unable to give it to us?
I can ask this question.
I did this for years.
Looked for, asked for, did everything but put up billboards announcing what I needed.
It still didn't happen.
Then finally I had a lightbulb moment.
That being, I needed to surround myself with people who COULD give me what I needed in a relationship.
Once I finally turned that corner, life has been working a hell of a lot better for me.
MOMENT...thank you
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the moon, milky way
Posts: 1,250
They do love. Many alcoholics have lots of other issues in addition to the alcohol which may make emotional connections difficult. It is a huge oversimplification to say 'all alcoholics are like this or that'. That just isn't the case.
As someone posted earlier, they love as much or as little as others but they alcohol impairs their ability to show it in a sustained and healthy way. Love is an intense feeling. You are asking for people who are so used to numbing feelings to express one of the most intense feelings of human emotions as readily as a sober person can. Not going to happen.
But that is different then saying 'do they love'. They do love.
I have no doubt in my mind that my ABF loves me, he loves his children, etc. In fact, he has a much easier time verbalizing his love when he is drinking (which makes me wonder why it is so difficult to express when sober). But that is his issue. The drinking lowers his inhibitions and all that lovey stuff bubbles to the surface. He gets hyperemotional when drinking.
As someone posted earlier, they love as much or as little as others but they alcohol impairs their ability to show it in a sustained and healthy way. Love is an intense feeling. You are asking for people who are so used to numbing feelings to express one of the most intense feelings of human emotions as readily as a sober person can. Not going to happen.
But that is different then saying 'do they love'. They do love.
I have no doubt in my mind that my ABF loves me, he loves his children, etc. In fact, he has a much easier time verbalizing his love when he is drinking (which makes me wonder why it is so difficult to express when sober). But that is his issue. The drinking lowers his inhibitions and all that lovey stuff bubbles to the surface. He gets hyperemotional when drinking.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the moon, milky way
Posts: 1,250
Cat - yes they do still have those habits when in recovery. Part of recovery is learning to break those addiction traits. What works for an addict obviously doesn't work in the sober world (as you sadly have seen firsthand). A whole new skill set has to be developed in order to get through things without escaping. Alcoholism ultimately is about escaping from everything: reality, responsibilities, loved ones, their past, etc.
Depending on how long he was drinking then that would tell you how long he has to 'undo' those habits. That being said though, sometimes we can look at things we don't like or that hurt us and attribute it to the drinking when maybe it is just who they are as people. Lots of sober people lie and manipulate and are unable to meet the emotional needs of others.
Depending on how long he was drinking then that would tell you how long he has to 'undo' those habits. That being said though, sometimes we can look at things we don't like or that hurt us and attribute it to the drinking when maybe it is just who they are as people. Lots of sober people lie and manipulate and are unable to meet the emotional needs of others.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 255
This is an interesting proposition. The answer is probably going to vary from case to case.
My AW tells me fifty times a day that she loves me, but it is a cloying, suffocating love. Looking back, she was that way before the alcoholism... always jealous, insecure and clingy.
My theory is that, in the grip of her OCD, she is in love with a caricature of real love. It is some romantic notion she has of what love should be, and what I ought to be. The fact that I have never been affectionate and nurturing enough to suit her may have eventually contributed to her alcoholism.
I guess I'll never know for sure.
My AW tells me fifty times a day that she loves me, but it is a cloying, suffocating love. Looking back, she was that way before the alcoholism... always jealous, insecure and clingy.
My theory is that, in the grip of her OCD, she is in love with a caricature of real love. It is some romantic notion she has of what love should be, and what I ought to be. The fact that I have never been affectionate and nurturing enough to suit her may have eventually contributed to her alcoholism.
I guess I'll never know for sure.
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
This is the thread that brought me to SR! I Googled "do alcoholics really love us?" one night...just sort of randomly...in a painful daze...while I was wondering how to text God. He answered, for sure. 
Yes, I absolutely believe alcoholics have the capacity to love, and do. But I've finally realized it doesn't really matter.
If a relationship is painful, or if I choose to compromise my values and boundaries just to have that love, then nooooooo thanks. I prefer my self-respect and dignity. And the peace and joy that come with them!
Thanks for bringing up this old thread...it led me to the best support group anywhere!
Yes, I absolutely believe alcoholics have the capacity to love, and do. But I've finally realized it doesn't really matter.
If a relationship is painful, or if I choose to compromise my values and boundaries just to have that love, then nooooooo thanks. I prefer my self-respect and dignity. And the peace and joy that come with them!
Thanks for bringing up this old thread...it led me to the best support group anywhere!
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 674
My ex ABF stopped drinking and committed to recovery 2 weeks after he forced me to leave the home we shared so he could drink uninterrupted. I felt like I would die. Friends came to help me pack up...my clothes in garbage bags.
I found a great place to live...my friends helped me...with the deposit, with the move, just surrounding me with love and support. He has been trying to get me back since he stopped drinking.
When he celebrated 90 days, I was there. I supported him, I loved him. I began to see him again. He let go of his program. He seemed worse to me. More competitve, more argumentative, more resentful...just awful.
I broke it off...said I did not want to be in a relationship, I needed to be alone.
Truth is, he scared the **** out of me.
I could not be hurt that way ever again...not with my eyes wide open. He wasn't drinking...but he was manipulative, and self pitying, and all of those awful things I thought would go away when he stopped drinking.
But it takes such a long time...and unless they work a program of recovery sincerely, and seriously...things in the relationship will not improve.
I wish that weren't true, but it is my experience. So now I am alone, and I love him, and I miss him, and he's sober...What the hell is up with that?????
I found a great place to live...my friends helped me...with the deposit, with the move, just surrounding me with love and support. He has been trying to get me back since he stopped drinking.
When he celebrated 90 days, I was there. I supported him, I loved him. I began to see him again. He let go of his program. He seemed worse to me. More competitve, more argumentative, more resentful...just awful.
I broke it off...said I did not want to be in a relationship, I needed to be alone.
Truth is, he scared the **** out of me.
I could not be hurt that way ever again...not with my eyes wide open. He wasn't drinking...but he was manipulative, and self pitying, and all of those awful things I thought would go away when he stopped drinking.
But it takes such a long time...and unless they work a program of recovery sincerely, and seriously...things in the relationship will not improve.
I wish that weren't true, but it is my experience. So now I am alone, and I love him, and I miss him, and he's sober...What the hell is up with that?????
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 674
He has always been loving and attentive, and supportive...but he sneaked and lied, and pretended, and threw me out...and I cannot get past that.
And maybe I should not get past that. It changed everything. He promised me a lifetime, a partnership. We were lovers at 26; now we are in our fifties...a lifetime apart, and loving each other, and he threw it away for the alcohol, and I cannot get past it. And he acts like it should all be ok because he is not drinking anymore.
And maybe I should not get past that. It changed everything. He promised me a lifetime, a partnership. We were lovers at 26; now we are in our fifties...a lifetime apart, and loving each other, and he threw it away for the alcohol, and I cannot get past it. And he acts like it should all be ok because he is not drinking anymore.
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Long Branch, NJ
Posts: 253
Haven't been here in a while, but I was just on another forum about relationships, and the topic was about emotional abusers. Someone said that even though it had been five years since she broke up with her emotional abuser, she still felt damaged, and that kind of hit home.
It's been ten years since I divorced my alcoholic/drug-using husband, and most of the time I feel as if I've moved on. I am certainly not the same person who allowed him to treat me so badly, but I am not whole and never will be. That's pretty much evidenced by the fact that I know I can never date again, because alcoholics are all that have ever been available to me. I am 52, so the likelihood of dating again is slim regardless.
Some time ago I was reading something, a self-help sort of thing, that suggested an exercise to clear out old anger and negative feelings, blah blah blah, by writing a letter to someone who had hurt you, forgiving them, and then tearing up the letter. I thought that would be a good idea. So I wrote the letter, and by the time I was done I knew damn well I didn't forgive him. I know I "should" because that's what we are told, but I don't. He stole 16 years of my life, put me so deep into debt that I've never really recovered, and did all this by claiming to love me when he is not capable of loving another human being. And that's the rub. They can "act" loving, they can say they love us, but they simply do not have the capacity to do so. Whether it's a disease or just bad character (yes I realize I'm not supposed to question the "disease" story, but I do), in the end, I think that's the sin that's unforgiveable to me: You said you loved me, and you lied.
It's been ten years since I divorced my alcoholic/drug-using husband, and most of the time I feel as if I've moved on. I am certainly not the same person who allowed him to treat me so badly, but I am not whole and never will be. That's pretty much evidenced by the fact that I know I can never date again, because alcoholics are all that have ever been available to me. I am 52, so the likelihood of dating again is slim regardless.
Some time ago I was reading something, a self-help sort of thing, that suggested an exercise to clear out old anger and negative feelings, blah blah blah, by writing a letter to someone who had hurt you, forgiving them, and then tearing up the letter. I thought that would be a good idea. So I wrote the letter, and by the time I was done I knew damn well I didn't forgive him. I know I "should" because that's what we are told, but I don't. He stole 16 years of my life, put me so deep into debt that I've never really recovered, and did all this by claiming to love me when he is not capable of loving another human being. And that's the rub. They can "act" loving, they can say they love us, but they simply do not have the capacity to do so. Whether it's a disease or just bad character (yes I realize I'm not supposed to question the "disease" story, but I do), in the end, I think that's the sin that's unforgiveable to me: You said you loved me, and you lied.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
Oh yes, my exabf loved my dog. No aggervation, simple, the dog loved him whether he was stoned , lied, looked at porn, called the sex phone line or stole from me...the little dog loved him and he loved the dog...as for me, no, I was just a vehicle..nothing more.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
I'm certain that my late alcoholic boyfriend Richard loved me. He showed me not just with his words, but by his actions. From what I could observe first hand and through reports from his boss and mutual friends, he appeared to grieve the loss of our relationship just as intensely as I did.
As his alcoholism progressed, however, he did appear to love the bottle more than he loved me. But I came to realize that was not love, it was intense need. He had reached a point in his addiction where he could not sustain his life with alcohol, and he could not sustain his life without it. Thus is the tragedy of alcoholism.
When the bad memories surface, as they tend to do at times, I try and remind myself that there's a person behind the disease. Richard loved me as much as he could, as much as he knew how, and as much as he learned from the example set by his family of origin.
He gave as much as he could, it just didn't happen to be enough for me. But thinking back on where I was in my own emotional and social development at the time, I doubt anyone could have given me then what I was truly seeking: self love, self acceptance, and self kindness.
I don't think I will ever find externally what I need internally because I'm the only one who can provide that.
As his alcoholism progressed, however, he did appear to love the bottle more than he loved me. But I came to realize that was not love, it was intense need. He had reached a point in his addiction where he could not sustain his life with alcohol, and he could not sustain his life without it. Thus is the tragedy of alcoholism.
When the bad memories surface, as they tend to do at times, I try and remind myself that there's a person behind the disease. Richard loved me as much as he could, as much as he knew how, and as much as he learned from the example set by his family of origin.
He gave as much as he could, it just didn't happen to be enough for me. But thinking back on where I was in my own emotional and social development at the time, I doubt anyone could have given me then what I was truly seeking: self love, self acceptance, and self kindness.
I don't think I will ever find externally what I need internally because I'm the only one who can provide that.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
No, someone in a self destructive path cannot love anyone else.
You have to have something before you can give it.
Also that self destructive path can be addiction or codependence.
If I do not feel whole in myself nothing ever is going to be enough.
In my case I do not feel it was love, I was a just a puppet to support his addiction. Far from love.
I did not love him either, why? easy, I do not love myself. I like me sometimes. But LOVE? still a long way to go.
I agree that as long as we wonder about THEM then we are not moving closer to feel any real love. Just as when they keep drinking, they are going nowhere.
You have to have something before you can give it.
Also that self destructive path can be addiction or codependence.
If I do not feel whole in myself nothing ever is going to be enough.
In my case I do not feel it was love, I was a just a puppet to support his addiction. Far from love.
I did not love him either, why? easy, I do not love myself. I like me sometimes. But LOVE? still a long way to go.
I agree that as long as we wonder about THEM then we are not moving closer to feel any real love. Just as when they keep drinking, they are going nowhere.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I think my xah really loved me. I think he really loves his kids. I think that his grief is very real and very intense right now. I can see it on his face.
I do not think that every human being is capable of love but I do not think alocoholism alone is incompatible with love.
Love isn't enough for me though. Priorities and responsibility (to self and family) is where the rubber meets the road and alcoholism is a defining factor in that. Alcohol will always be their priority and alcholism warps a persons thinking and reality.
I do not think that every human being is capable of love but I do not think alocoholism alone is incompatible with love.
Love isn't enough for me though. Priorities and responsibility (to self and family) is where the rubber meets the road and alcoholism is a defining factor in that. Alcohol will always be their priority and alcholism warps a persons thinking and reality.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: SC
Posts: 1
my dad has been an alcohol abuser for a few years now and i can't believe how much his personality has changed. it's like someone has invaded his body and taken his soul. growing up he was the love of my life, my best friend and just the coolest person in the world. i believe his work (having to be away from home), baggage from his youth and extreme low self-esteem and confidence have caused him to depend on alcohol. i got in an argument with him last night and slapped him in the face and told him i never wanted to see him again and he laughed and said "fine." i know i was wrong and let my emotions take over, but can he really mean that? i am his only child and we have always had the most amazing relationship and i felt like he was the one person in the world who would NEVER do anything to hurt me. he opened a beer in the car once while i was driving, i believe just to hurt me.
is he pushing me away? does he really not love me anymore? i think my mom is prepared to leave him, and i think she should. he doesn't think anything is wrong (even though he has admitted to having a problem once in the past) and is impossible to communicate with.
i just don't know if i'm supposed to turn my back on him when i believe many of his issues are internal struggles that are exacerbated by alcohol. he knows we want him to get help and that we are more than willing to help him, but it seems he just doesn't want it and feels that we are gaining up on him. i need advice on how to deal with this. i feel like i have already lost him and should act like he is gone and just learn to cope with it. i miss being his baby and i just want him back so bad.
thanks for letting me vent...
is he pushing me away? does he really not love me anymore? i think my mom is prepared to leave him, and i think she should. he doesn't think anything is wrong (even though he has admitted to having a problem once in the past) and is impossible to communicate with.
i just don't know if i'm supposed to turn my back on him when i believe many of his issues are internal struggles that are exacerbated by alcohol. he knows we want him to get help and that we are more than willing to help him, but it seems he just doesn't want it and feels that we are gaining up on him. i need advice on how to deal with this. i feel like i have already lost him and should act like he is gone and just learn to cope with it. i miss being his baby and i just want him back so bad.
thanks for letting me vent...
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
Remember the three C's:
You didn't Cause it
You can't Control it
You can't Cure it
You've made it very clear to him that you'll support him if he wants to work on his alcohol problem, and he's made it very clear to you that he'd rather stick with the alcohol. You can't get help for an alcoholic unless they really want help, and even then, they're completely capable of finding the help and support they need on their own.
You need to focus on YOU, not him. I know it sounds selfish, but he's made his choice right now, and any effort on him at this stage will only drive you crazy.
You didn't Cause it
You can't Control it
You can't Cure it
You've made it very clear to him that you'll support him if he wants to work on his alcohol problem, and he's made it very clear to you that he'd rather stick with the alcohol. You can't get help for an alcoholic unless they really want help, and even then, they're completely capable of finding the help and support they need on their own.
You need to focus on YOU, not him. I know it sounds selfish, but he's made his choice right now, and any effort on him at this stage will only drive you crazy.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 16
I think they are able to love us only as much as their addiction to alcohol (or their love affair with alcohol) allows, they are in main incredibly selfish and can't see how their actions hurt or how their lies hurt - when they do properly 100% wholeheartedly realise and see this - thats when they sober up and stay sober.
Personally I don't think my ex loved me at all but as a general rule I believe the above is true.
Personally I don't think my ex loved me at all but as a general rule I believe the above is true.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 447
My AH who is in a program sat and cried the other night.
he looked at me and said "I think there is something really WRONG with me?!"
What could I possibly say to that.
Of course there is something wrong with you!! Your an alcoholic who is on a dry drunk, who emotionally abuses me and our kids and I'm just as sick as you are because I'm crying because your leaving me! How stupid is that?
So who's the real sick one here?
the one that is leaving because they say they need serenity but admits it's because of the shame they feel for the past and the things they've put us through....
or is it me, the one who cleaned up the chaos all those years, LET myself be manipulated every way but Sunday and watched my kids be ignored and neglected.
Is he capable of love?
I don't think so.
Not until he can learn to forgive himself and learn to love himself.
As long as he holds on to the garbage..he won't be able to move forward...and he's going to be sad and alone. I actually feel bad for him.
he looked at me and said "I think there is something really WRONG with me?!"
What could I possibly say to that.
Of course there is something wrong with you!! Your an alcoholic who is on a dry drunk, who emotionally abuses me and our kids and I'm just as sick as you are because I'm crying because your leaving me! How stupid is that?
So who's the real sick one here?
the one that is leaving because they say they need serenity but admits it's because of the shame they feel for the past and the things they've put us through....
or is it me, the one who cleaned up the chaos all those years, LET myself be manipulated every way but Sunday and watched my kids be ignored and neglected.
Is he capable of love?
I don't think so.
Not until he can learn to forgive himself and learn to love himself.
As long as he holds on to the garbage..he won't be able to move forward...and he's going to be sad and alone. I actually feel bad for him.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
It depends, but my wife loves me very much...
...and I believe it. And, frankly, I don't believe 99 percent of the things she says. OK, that's not true, I believe 60 percent of what she says, and 40 percent are lies. No, wait, it's 60 percent lies and 40 percent truth.
Regardless, the one thing I think is true is that she loves my daughter and I more than anything else on this earth. That, my friends, is why she has continued to fight the fight even while getting her ass handed to her by alcohol and mary jane.
I believe it because she has never given up.
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
Regardless, the one thing I think is true is that she loves my daughter and I more than anything else on this earth. That, my friends, is why she has continued to fight the fight even while getting her ass handed to her by alcohol and mary jane.
I believe it because she has never given up.
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
I don't believe 99 percent of the things she says. OK, that's not true, I believe 60 percent of what she says, and 40 percent are lies. No, wait, it's 60 percent lies and 40 percent truth.
About this thread, of course alcoholics can love, they're human. We think we KNOW what love is supposed to look like and when someone's behavior doesn't look like that, we think they don't love us. The fact that they don't behave that way has nothing to do with love. They behave that way because they're alcoholic. And love cannot cure alcoholism. My Dad is a huge alcoholic, so far gone, wasted so many decades of his life. But I have never once, in all my years on earth, ever doubted his love for me. He's done the best he could with the hand he was dealt and that is enough for me.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the moon, milky way
Posts: 1,250
My rambly thoughts.... cuz this is a question I asked myself many times, about the RABF capacity to be in a mutually loving situation. There is so much pain woven into their emotional capacity, and self loathing. Very tough to get past that and give of yourself if you aren't loving yourself even.
I never doubt the love IS there but he recently admitted that his feelings paralyze him. Like he doesn't have the confidence yet, in sobriety, to show his love. He is very very sensitive and many alcoholics are acutely so. Which is why many drink. I know he feels things pretty intensely but managing those feelings without drinking is very new territory.
Even the basics he has to work through. It comes across as sometimes rehearsed or stilted. To the point where I wonder if is important to him. I do that balance thing though, where I pull back to see if he will step forward and he does but it gets frustrating for me to continually have to adjust my needs.
If I think he is going to meet my needs now in recovery and treatment, no. I'd be silly to think he could even try. Does he love me? Yes, I know he does but it may be some time before he can truly sustain love in a mutual, give and take type of relationship.
One other thought I had reading through this thread again... is if you grew up never knowing love or came from chaos in your childhood, healthy love may also be elusive even without alcohol. Many who drink are covering up long held pain from growing up with dysfunction. Expecting them to know what love is practically impossible.
I also know many people who are unable to express love or even sustain love who never had a drinking or addiction problem.
The older I get, the more I realize that maybe those of us who CAN love and have an easy time (sometimes too easy accessing those feelings or showing them are NOT the norm. Maybe we have special gifts that we think others have but they really don't or may never know what it is like to feel real love and share that love unconditionally. Sad for them I think.
I never doubt the love IS there but he recently admitted that his feelings paralyze him. Like he doesn't have the confidence yet, in sobriety, to show his love. He is very very sensitive and many alcoholics are acutely so. Which is why many drink. I know he feels things pretty intensely but managing those feelings without drinking is very new territory.
Even the basics he has to work through. It comes across as sometimes rehearsed or stilted. To the point where I wonder if is important to him. I do that balance thing though, where I pull back to see if he will step forward and he does but it gets frustrating for me to continually have to adjust my needs.
If I think he is going to meet my needs now in recovery and treatment, no. I'd be silly to think he could even try. Does he love me? Yes, I know he does but it may be some time before he can truly sustain love in a mutual, give and take type of relationship.
One other thought I had reading through this thread again... is if you grew up never knowing love or came from chaos in your childhood, healthy love may also be elusive even without alcohol. Many who drink are covering up long held pain from growing up with dysfunction. Expecting them to know what love is practically impossible.
I also know many people who are unable to express love or even sustain love who never had a drinking or addiction problem.
The older I get, the more I realize that maybe those of us who CAN love and have an easy time (sometimes too easy
accessing those feelings or showing them are NOT the norm. Maybe we have special gifts that we think others have but they really don't or may never know what it is like to feel real love and share that love unconditionally. Sad for them I think.
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