bikewench

Exactly.

The thing is though... for some reason caring isn't working either... ;o)
Kind of a .. damned if ya do... damned if ya don't thing.

But... I keep trying to connect with something that just isn't there. And I keep looking in the same places.

Now... in real life... I'd be slapping myself upside the head with a two by four if I looked under the same pillow for my keys every day for years and never found them... ??!!

You'd think I'd stop lookin....!!!! At the very least.

Of course... this is more crap from my past. Hair trigger reaction to past fears I'm sure Freud would say.

Whatever.

I think I'll just go hang out with my buddy God...
He never lets me down.

Ahhh man... some days.

Gabe

This begs the question...
Why do we continually look for what we need from people who are unable to give it to us?
I can ask this question.
I did this for years.
Looked for, asked for, did everything but put up billboards announcing what I needed.
It still didn't happen.
Then finally I had a lightbulb moment.
That being, I needed to surround myself with people who COULD give me what I needed in a relationship.
Once I finally turned that corner, life has been working a hell of a lot better for me.

Daffodil

Your question as to why do WE always keep looking for the things we need from people who TODAY can't give it is what Al-Anon is all about in my opinion.
IT is my expectations that's the problem. I expect an alcoholic to behave the way I want them to when they are incapable at the moment to do so.
That to me is like asking someone with TB to quit coughing because I NEED them too.

I don't believe loving has anything to do with a practicing alcolholic or addict's behavior. Question: If I invision the alcoholic in my life as a beer can, Do I really want them to love me and can I really love them? At the moment of someone else _HAVING_ to have a drink, they are no longer the person I love. Man takes a drink and sooner or later the drink takes the man.

Arn't we all doing the best we know how with the tools we have to work with? I believe that even goes for the A's. For the moment isn't their drug of choice one of the tools they use to live or escape living life?

Gabe

I agree Daff.
I think the operative phrase for me on this one is "just for today".
Just for today, I am not getting what I need from _____________ (fill in the blank).
Doesn't mean it's always going to be that way.
Life and circumstances change on a daily basis.
And all that we can do is live in 24 hour increments.

Aquiana

I tend to agree with the idea that it depends on the A. Some probably do love us and some probably don't. Just like some of us probably still love them and some of us don't. I think in my situation my Abf really does love me. The problem is more that he can't show it. He will never understand my point of view on a lot of it. It hurts when he drinks, but he doesn't see the big deal. I mean, he knows when he's done something really bad drinking but thinks it's alright to do it sometimes. He doesn't get that he'll probably never control it like a non-alcoholic can. He lies and that hurts really bad, but to him they're all white lies so no harm done. Easy to say when you're not on the receiving end. He doesn't understand my need for intimacy other than sex. He seems to think intimacy is only sex. He loves me, but what it boils down to more is whether his way of showing it is ever going to be what I need. I can't change the way he feels about things nor will he change the way I feel. He doesn't hurt me on purpose, he just can't figure out what he does that hurts.

mushroom

I think, about the lying, that at the time they are lying the're hoping that they can sell us on it and then it'll become the truth. Mainly the "no I haven't been drinking" kind of lies, particularly when they're falling down drunk. As far as what they put us through I don't think they think that far outside of themselves when they're actively using. They hurt too much to think about other people. My AH has the emotional maturity of a 5yr old and I think he loves me only as much as a 5 yr old could, which is not much.

Jadmack25

I Love this man with all my heart, and have done so for 18 years of lies, abuse, infidelities and so many broken promises. I feel I am only a rescue service for him, when his life is in tatters. After the confession of yet another instance of cheating on me when totally drunk, I am not only sad about it, but damned mad about it.

The love I have for him seems endless, yet I wonder if he has any real love or interest in ME.
Something that comes to mind when he sobers up and promises he made only hours before are tossed overboard yet again is, does he really love me as he says he does?
Does he understand anything of what he puts us both through, and how upset he makes me?
Does he actually feel guilty when he lies to me about how much he's had to drink,
or who he has been with and what, if anything happened between them?
Does he realise he is lying to me in the first place?
Does he think about, and see things from my perspective at all?
Is he too wrapped up in himself and his drinking to be able to do that?

It seems that I can never really have a relationship with him, because the bottle will always be a better lover than ever could be for him.
Often I think that he can never truly love anybody, and I feel so miserable at the waste of both our lives.
At other times, I truly believe he does love me, in his own muddled up and weird way, but doesn't know how to express it.

He actually went for help from Drug & Alcohol service and has appointment in 2 weeks. I was away and he was drunk, broke, filthy, sick and desperate at the time, sobered up after 2 days of withdrawal hell, (total of 23 this year) then back on it 3 days later. Now says he will sober up yet again, and see counsellor because he wants to stop drinking. Hope so, but been there and done that so often I have doubts.

Maybe he finally sees that his BINGES have only brought him pain, great suffering, loads of guilt and remorse, such embarrassment and lack of success with his passion of horse racing.
This is his last chance where I am involved. Too old to go thru anymore.

Blondie

I don't know, I stopped trying to figure my AH out because it only wasted my time and drove me crazy.

mallowcup

Alcoholics love us so long as they can control us. They love us so long as we make them appear stable. They love us for ads long as we are willing to follow the progressive road of compromise that enables them to drink. They love us for as long as we are willing to lie to our kids about where daddy is and what daddys doing, why he didn't come to the school concert and whey we had to leave Thankgiving dinner early.
They love us so long as we accept that the bar scag who brought him home this morning is just a friend and it meant nothing. So long as we are willling to call and lie to his boss and work a few extra hours each week to make up for the lost money.
That's why we do those things for so long. We know the price.
I did not allow my ex husbands version of love to be internalized by his sons.
He would say he loved them and not show up. Two star atheletes whos father never attended one game. They never stopped searching the crowd for his face.
This is why I said that it is more important to validate your childrens disappointments than to make excuses for an alcoholic. If we don't we give our kids very low expectations of what love should be. Expect nothing.........

jillybean

I have wondered about this myself.

In my case, I would have to say that if love equals his needs being met no matter what price I pay, then I would say yes, he loves me.

More to the point... he NEEDS me. His "love" he feels for me is acutally his "need" for me.

I am not a medical profesional so when I say this I am relating what was observed by the real professionals while he was in detox for only 4 days.

They wanted him tested for a personality disorder as well. I was floored by that. In 4 short days, these people suspected strongly that there was more going on than the alcohol abuse.

I gauge my beliefs on his actions, not on his words. If he regurgitates the correct words and is believed, then he is capable of what he is saying he can do. Now flip the coin and look at the actions and the lack of aprropriateness is glaringly apparent.

The actions not the words tell the truth. Not all that glitters is gold.

As it was pointed out, if they are actually emotionally behind from their true chronological age, it's gonna show.

If they are stunted in development ....that's all folks. A child naturally is narcissitic until they reach a certain age and they naturally develope beyond themselves. If something affects that process, it never happens.

This is all my take on my situation only.

Expressions of love and experiences are individual and unique. So is how each person came to be who they are and how they interact with people in their lives.

SelfSeeking

I don't know if it is appropriate for me to respond to this thread... I hope it is. I am an alcoholic, and I am in recovery because I love my fiance and want to learn how to love myself, too.

cagefree

I may be wrong - but I'm guessing the thread is referring to Alcoholics who have not found true recovery and are not working a program.

Thanks for the reminder SelfSeeking and congrats on choosing recovery!

I think whether our addiction is to alcohol or to the alcoholic, we can never love anyone else without loving ourselves first.

jillybean

SelfSeeking,

You wrote:

'want to learn how to love myself, too."

You're starting in the right place...with self awareness.

Abf isn't capable of that and it's doubtful he can ever be. But that is for him to work on.

Wishing you all the best.

Cassey

I dont think so, how can I love if I dont love myself. How can he give love if he doesnt love himself.

How can I care and give care if I dont care about myself, and how can they care and give care if they dont care about themselves.

I have to work on liking and loving myself and really caring about my well being, my health emotionally and physically. I have stopped caring whether he loves me or even likes me we are both sick and until we help ourselves it will remain the way it is.

This is something in my life that I am really working on and I truly believe this. We are together for the same reason we both have very serious addictions.

Reddmax

My therapist says that alcoholics have a huge amount of selfishness, and its impossible to have a "real" relationship with one. She talked about balance in a relationship. What we do, as partners, is pursue the alcoholic when they withdraw. The actual thing that needs to be done, and what we all struggle with, is when they withdraw, you should withdraw a similar amount. Then, the relationship stays in balance.

Redd

Pajarito

How can this even be possible? To me a relationship involving an active alcoholic-or a dry alcoholic- has no chance of being balanced. What's the point?

I questioned whether my STBXAH loved me as well, but find it just drives me crazy. I'm sure he did/does in the best way he knows how. However, I found through the years that it just was not enough. I was starving. His view of love just wasn't my view. I can't be in love or give so much of myself to a man who withdraws from me to such a degree that there's no cooperation around household chores, going out for family or date time, no conversations that are "real," lying, hiding his addiction, arguing to create the right conditions for his addiction, blaming, etc. He is self absorbed- that leaves no room for me. He may say he loves me, but his version of love would have entailed my giving him everything and letting him do his own thing- away from us- me and dd- treating the house like a hotel and me like his servant- not his equal partner. When I finally realized that I was not living with a man who is capable of being an equal, loving partner, I had to make the choice to quit trying. The more important question for me became, "Do I love myself?" If so, I needed to make a painful choice- to leave my marriage and a man who is just not engaged in order to save myself.

Reddmax

Pajarito,

That's why its impossible to have a real relationship with an A. They want selfish things. Selfish things move them away. You don't serve the selfish needs, therefore you move away. Either it goes to the point the relationship breaks, or the selfish one has an "aha" moment and gets it together. That's why most alcoholic marriages fail. Yes... you do have to save yourself.

Redd

Pajarito

Or the enabler- Me- has an aha moment and makes the difficult choice.

Lilyflower

And from what appears to have happened to most folks who post here regular, this is what usually occurs first!

It is just as what has been said - if active alcoholics do love us, then do we want to continue receiving this type of love? Is this display of love all we envisage for ourselves? Are we honestly content with living with the way it is, accepting it fully, understanding that the love we so crave will quite possibly not be shown to us?

Until the addiction breaks and they find recovery, the things that hurt and scar our hearts will continue to happen. I came to the conclusion that I could not live with it for the next 2, 5, 10, 20, --- years until he found recovery - I loved myself too much.

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

karprohibido

I wanted to thank you for this passage. I had an eye opener when I read this. I have heard it over and over again from my husband but never really thought that someone could be that cold to someone that they are suppose to love and care for, now I understand how. Thank you!