Grappling with Boundaries
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Originally Posted by Oynnet 
Well, the next tale in the saga is that I woke up this morning to a stream of messages from him making plans for his drive to Chicago. He went to his Moms and scrounged up all their loose change for petrol money, He wants to get on the road right now, but has to wait for his paycheck to clear so that he can pay his rent in the morning.
After missing the flight, he apparently spent a whole bunch of time talking to the friend he was flying to, and they talked about the possibility that he had anxiety and panic attacks (I'm like DUH).
I don't necessarily believe that he is actually going to pull the trigger and get on the road, given how big his freakout was yesterday. I don't even know that I want to hope at this point. His Mom sent me an email saying that I should have seen him, his laser focus and absolute drive that he was going to go to Chicago. That he needed to do this for me.
After missing the flight, he apparently spent a whole bunch of time talking to the friend he was flying to, and they talked about the possibility that he had anxiety and panic attacks (I'm like DUH).
I don't necessarily believe that he is actually going to pull the trigger and get on the road, given how big his freakout was yesterday. I don't even know that I want to hope at this point. His Mom sent me an email saying that I should have seen him, his laser focus and absolute drive that he was going to go to Chicago. That he needed to do this for me.
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Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Oregon
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Hi Oynnet-
Im wondering how you’re doing processing this 180 reaction -I wonder as well, how you’re feeling about his moms involvement in trying to influence the way you see him in this current scenario?
After all the back information about his behavior you’ve shared here, as well the ongoing unhealthy dynamic with his mom, this plot twist feels like an enormous red flag - the double down behavior that seemed inevitable as a response to your boundary. He’s creating a situation where he’s appearing to make a grand heroic gesture ( (in reality he dragged you along trying to collapse your boundary and missed his flight on purpose, putting you through an awful pins and needles ordeal in the process - and suddenly you need to set your OWN anxiety and pain aside because HE has anxiety and panic- and now his mom is involved in presenting a heroic picture of him to you - it appears he, possibly his friend, and his mom are sweeping aside his terrible treatment of you- everyone’s concern seems to be for him and not for you or the agonizing experience his behavior has created for you.
I hope as you process this, you are unflinchingly honest with yourself about his well established patterns of manipulation and protecting his status quo at your expense. I also hope you are also unflichingly honest with yourself about what you want, need and deserve, and whether this rollercoaster of chaos and drama is aligned with that - he’s shown you what you can actually expect, in spite of the theatrics that he’s presently engaging in. Please take care of yourself Oynnet, I think as long as you stay in contact with him he will keep making things as hard as he can for you in terms of holding your boundaries. He has maintained all along that he wants the distance, he wants you to give him what he needs , he wants the status quo, regardless of what you want or need. His anxiety, panic, and pain are not your job to fix - they are the result of his own choices - in spite of how much you want to save him - especially given your own past traumas- the only one who can save him is him. Hang in there.
Im wondering how you’re doing processing this 180 reaction -I wonder as well, how you’re feeling about his moms involvement in trying to influence the way you see him in this current scenario?
After all the back information about his behavior you’ve shared here, as well the ongoing unhealthy dynamic with his mom, this plot twist feels like an enormous red flag - the double down behavior that seemed inevitable as a response to your boundary. He’s creating a situation where he’s appearing to make a grand heroic gesture ( (in reality he dragged you along trying to collapse your boundary and missed his flight on purpose, putting you through an awful pins and needles ordeal in the process - and suddenly you need to set your OWN anxiety and pain aside because HE has anxiety and panic- and now his mom is involved in presenting a heroic picture of him to you - it appears he, possibly his friend, and his mom are sweeping aside his terrible treatment of you- everyone’s concern seems to be for him and not for you or the agonizing experience his behavior has created for you.
I hope as you process this, you are unflinchingly honest with yourself about his well established patterns of manipulation and protecting his status quo at your expense. I also hope you are also unflichingly honest with yourself about what you want, need and deserve, and whether this rollercoaster of chaos and drama is aligned with that - he’s shown you what you can actually expect, in spite of the theatrics that he’s presently engaging in. Please take care of yourself Oynnet, I think as long as you stay in contact with him he will keep making things as hard as he can for you in terms of holding your boundaries. He has maintained all along that he wants the distance, he wants you to give him what he needs , he wants the status quo, regardless of what you want or need. His anxiety, panic, and pain are not your job to fix - they are the result of his own choices - in spite of how much you want to save him - especially given your own past traumas- the only one who can save him is him. Hang in there.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Originally Posted by Oynnet
Saturday afternoon his time the flight leaves.
If he has to drive 4-5 hours he will need a few hundred dollars in "loose change" with the price of petrol as it is!
Firehouse management.
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Join Date: Apr 2016
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I see his mom so very much in my ex MIL - doing everything to make me sound like a hero and the only one who can save him. Trying to put you up on this pedastool. Keep in mind this is manipulation. She doesn't want him on her doorstep to care for his every need. I hope you step back and see this for what it is. Manipulation, gaslighting and reeling you back in.
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Join Date: Feb 2024
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Originally Posted by makeitwrite
Hi Oynnet-
Im wondering how you’re doing processing this 180 reaction -I wonder as well, how you’re feeling about his moms involvement in trying to influence the way you see him in this current scenario?
After all the back information about his behavior you’ve shared here, as well the ongoing unhealthy dynamic with his mom, this plot twist feels like an enormous red flag - the double down behavior that seemed inevitable as a response to your boundary. He’s creating a situation where he’s appearing to make a grand heroic gesture ( (in reality he dragged you along trying to collapse your boundary and missed his flight on purpose, putting you through an awful pins and needles ordeal in the process - and suddenly you need to set your OWN anxiety and pain aside because HE has anxiety and panic- and now his mom is involved in presenting a heroic picture of him to you - it appears he, possibly his friend, and his mom are sweeping aside his terrible treatment of you- everyone’s concern seems to be for him and not for you or the agonizing experience his behavior has created for you.
I hope as you process this, you are unflinchingly honest with yourself about his well established patterns of manipulation and protecting his status quo at your expense. I also hope you are also unflichingly honest with yourself about what you want, need and deserve, and whether this rollercoaster of chaos and drama is aligned with that - he’s shown you what you can actually expect, in spite of the theatrics that he’s presently engaging in. Please take care of yourself Oynnet, I think as long as you stay in contact with him he will keep making things as hard as he can for you in terms of holding your boundaries. He has maintained all along that he wants the distance, he wants you to give him what he needs , he wants the status quo, regardless of what you want or need. His anxiety, panic, and pain are not your job to fix - they are the result of his own choices - in spite of how much you want to save him - especially given your own past traumas- the only one who can save him is him. Hang in there.
Im wondering how you’re doing processing this 180 reaction -I wonder as well, how you’re feeling about his moms involvement in trying to influence the way you see him in this current scenario?
After all the back information about his behavior you’ve shared here, as well the ongoing unhealthy dynamic with his mom, this plot twist feels like an enormous red flag - the double down behavior that seemed inevitable as a response to your boundary. He’s creating a situation where he’s appearing to make a grand heroic gesture ( (in reality he dragged you along trying to collapse your boundary and missed his flight on purpose, putting you through an awful pins and needles ordeal in the process - and suddenly you need to set your OWN anxiety and pain aside because HE has anxiety and panic- and now his mom is involved in presenting a heroic picture of him to you - it appears he, possibly his friend, and his mom are sweeping aside his terrible treatment of you- everyone’s concern seems to be for him and not for you or the agonizing experience his behavior has created for you.
I hope as you process this, you are unflinchingly honest with yourself about his well established patterns of manipulation and protecting his status quo at your expense. I also hope you are also unflichingly honest with yourself about what you want, need and deserve, and whether this rollercoaster of chaos and drama is aligned with that - he’s shown you what you can actually expect, in spite of the theatrics that he’s presently engaging in. Please take care of yourself Oynnet, I think as long as you stay in contact with him he will keep making things as hard as he can for you in terms of holding your boundaries. He has maintained all along that he wants the distance, he wants you to give him what he needs , he wants the status quo, regardless of what you want or need. His anxiety, panic, and pain are not your job to fix - they are the result of his own choices - in spite of how much you want to save him - especially given your own past traumas- the only one who can save him is him. Hang in there.
I will say his friend is also my friend, and is not in any way sweeping away his behaviour. He thinks it is deplorable. I will also say that his Mom isn't fully painting him in an honourable light, I haven't typed my full conversation with her. But I will say that she does not want to foist him on me, though she does want us to stay together. I know exactly what it is I need and want, and it certainly isn't having to fight to see him. He knows that we have some tough conversations this trip, it is the whole reason we planned the longer trip in the first place. He also knows that I want an end to distance, and that was one of the reasons he freaked out. This is still a one way ticket after all.
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Trailmix is making an important point- we could both be misunderstanding, but my impression as well, is that if he does get on the plane , he assumes you’ll pay for a return flight- the fact that he made a point to ask about it is part of why I have that impression. My sense is that in your mind it’s a one way ticket, but in his mind it’s not.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
I hope you are hanging in there ok Oynnet, I'm sure you are perched on the end of your chair. I hope he is on his way to Chicago.
And yes, I have told him I would get a return ticket, but he never once asked me to book it before he arrived.
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What I am finding interesting at the moment is my own internal monologue and thoughts. Before, I just wanted him to come for a longer visit with a hope that he would see a way to staying. Before, I would have probably been ok to make a plan for a move at a future date, booking things for later and sending him home. But now it feels like my internal requirements are higher. My internal monologue demands more. Yes, he made a choice that I was more important than the status quo. In this moment, he chose me over his addiction. He drove 5 1/2 hours to choose me, and hasn't drunk since I held that boundary. hat is no small thing and I recognize it. But he made that choice AFTER putting me through the wringer, hurting me, and first choosing the status quo. He wasted my money on a flight he didn't take. He panicked before the flight, called off work, drank, made his financial position even worse than it already was, and was generally a jerk.
I don't want to punish him. He has taken a step in the right direction here. It is SO obvious to me that there is some anxiety and panic at play here - my daughter has anxiety and his freak out mirrors the freeze she gets when she has a panic attack. But based on my internal thoughts I obviously have not fully forgiven him. The walls I threw up in this boundary have not crumbled. I seem to have some backbone left.
I don't want to punish him. He has taken a step in the right direction here. It is SO obvious to me that there is some anxiety and panic at play here - my daughter has anxiety and his freak out mirrors the freeze she gets when she has a panic attack. But based on my internal thoughts I obviously have not fully forgiven him. The walls I threw up in this boundary have not crumbled. I seem to have some backbone left.
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I think you’re doing great recognizing patterns that aren’t ok without seeking to be punitive towards him. Its a wonderful skill to be able to be empathetic and recognize layers of struggle happening to another person - it’s so important to balance empathy with boundaries and it sounds like that’s something you’re practicing in not overlooking all that happened before he made it to Chicago. Writing those things down, sharing them with others ( not to throw him under the bus but to bolster your courage to choose yourself when you need to ) can be so helpful for moments when empathy starts to chip away at boundaries that are still newly established.
I’ll share something I was told at a crucial impasse with my own (now ex) alcogolic partner:
”Raise the bar- and once you do don’t lower it because the person is either unwilling or unable to be who you deserve”
At first doing so felt very harsh, and I struggled with guilt and the desire to waver , but it got easier. And then it became instinctual. And then better versions of love began to present themselves and I felt so much more at peace in who I allowed into my world.
I hope you approach any contact, conversations and decisions you have ahead knowing you are supported here when the choices get hard.
I’ll share something I was told at a crucial impasse with my own (now ex) alcogolic partner:
”Raise the bar- and once you do don’t lower it because the person is either unwilling or unable to be who you deserve”
At first doing so felt very harsh, and I struggled with guilt and the desire to waver , but it got easier. And then it became instinctual. And then better versions of love began to present themselves and I felt so much more at peace in who I allowed into my world.
I hope you approach any contact, conversations and decisions you have ahead knowing you are supported here when the choices get hard.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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I'm glad he made the drive to Chicago.
He hasn't "not" chosen the status quo yet. He's coming for a holiday and then he is leaving. Nothing has changed except you get to see him and he gets a vacation.
Many people have panic attacks, as you mentioned, your Daughter does, but she doesn't try to drown it in a drink, so there isn't really a parallel there. I'm sure, with your guidance, she has learned methods to calm herself and maybe even has medication from a doctor. He chooses not to do that. I understand that it helps you understand what he went through, but how he handled it - well.
Now am I saying this to make him look bad? Not at all, I am saying it because sometimes compassion can be misplaced. That's where the setting yourself on fire to keep someone else warm enters the picture.
I hate to think what this rollercoaster of worry and stress and meanness has done to you. I'm sure you feel wrung out like a dishcloth.
Anyway, he should be there Sunday N.A. time and Monday your time? I really hope he steps up.
He hasn't "not" chosen the status quo yet. He's coming for a holiday and then he is leaving. Nothing has changed except you get to see him and he gets a vacation.
Many people have panic attacks, as you mentioned, your Daughter does, but she doesn't try to drown it in a drink, so there isn't really a parallel there. I'm sure, with your guidance, she has learned methods to calm herself and maybe even has medication from a doctor. He chooses not to do that. I understand that it helps you understand what he went through, but how he handled it - well.
Now am I saying this to make him look bad? Not at all, I am saying it because sometimes compassion can be misplaced. That's where the setting yourself on fire to keep someone else warm enters the picture.
I hate to think what this rollercoaster of worry and stress and meanness has done to you. I'm sure you feel wrung out like a dishcloth.
Anyway, he should be there Sunday N.A. time and Monday your time? I really hope he steps up.
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Well that's good, you will get to see him.
I don't want to be a naysayer, honestly. But to keep this in perspective, he has done exactly zero that he hasn't said he would do from day one.
The only added part is that he put you through hellish drama and he was also really insulting to you, hurtful and mean.
He was supposed to make this trip originally, even after hemming and hawing he was asking you if the ticket was still available (although you mention you had already gone over that several times).
I guess this kind of jumped out at me. Forgiven him? He hasn't made any amends yet, zero. All he's done so far is what he said he would do in the first place. You can forgive without an apology or amends, of course, that's an inside job, but I hope you have some guard up, low expectations, because how much more hurt can you take?
I don't want to be a naysayer, honestly. But to keep this in perspective, he has done exactly zero that he hasn't said he would do from day one.
The only added part is that he put you through hellish drama and he was also really insulting to you, hurtful and mean.
He was supposed to make this trip originally, even after hemming and hawing he was asking you if the ticket was still available (although you mention you had already gone over that several times).
But based on my internal thoughts I obviously have not fully forgiven him.
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Part of what I need to get ready for this trip was my office.
I moved into this house 11 months ago - the last time he was here actually - and I never tackled the mountain pile of paperwork that was my research notes. It was all in piles and boxes everywhere. To get a desk in here for him (which I got free I might add, I did not spend money) I had to grapple with this pile of paper.
Last night as I was sorting and filing through the stack I found a notebook I'd been keeping that I thought I'd lost. Full of letters to him, not to send, but to express thoughts and feelings. And reading those it is clear that I have been unhappy since last year. I have been finished with distance, and standing with one foot outside the relationship because of it. What is interesting to me, reading those, is how hard I fought for this relationship when it did end - in spite of those feelings. When I last visited him in October, I told him we had to choose a path to ending the distance to stay in the relationship. He was on board with ending distance because that was what I needed. He did ask that we just enjoy the time we had together in person, and talk about it in depth when I got home. What obviously followed has been initial enthusiasm leading to 6 months of feet dragging and fighting and dodging of discussions and broken promises.
It is more clear to me now that we need this trip to actually have these discussions in person, we need to agree and *book* a pathway to ending distance, or we need to agree to go our separate ways, no matter how much he is desperate to keep me around. No matter how painful I find it not having him in my life. Because right now we are stuck in a toxic cycle.
I moved into this house 11 months ago - the last time he was here actually - and I never tackled the mountain pile of paperwork that was my research notes. It was all in piles and boxes everywhere. To get a desk in here for him (which I got free I might add, I did not spend money) I had to grapple with this pile of paper.
Last night as I was sorting and filing through the stack I found a notebook I'd been keeping that I thought I'd lost. Full of letters to him, not to send, but to express thoughts and feelings. And reading those it is clear that I have been unhappy since last year. I have been finished with distance, and standing with one foot outside the relationship because of it. What is interesting to me, reading those, is how hard I fought for this relationship when it did end - in spite of those feelings. When I last visited him in October, I told him we had to choose a path to ending the distance to stay in the relationship. He was on board with ending distance because that was what I needed. He did ask that we just enjoy the time we had together in person, and talk about it in depth when I got home. What obviously followed has been initial enthusiasm leading to 6 months of feet dragging and fighting and dodging of discussions and broken promises.
It is more clear to me now that we need this trip to actually have these discussions in person, we need to agree and *book* a pathway to ending distance, or we need to agree to go our separate ways, no matter how much he is desperate to keep me around. No matter how painful I find it not having him in my life. Because right now we are stuck in a toxic cycle.
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You have gotten him to come and you will have those conversations. I just feel like we’ve lost the big picture in this thread that you are inviting and desiring an active alcoholic, who doesn’t seem to have any intention to get into recovery, to live with you, and more importantly, your children. The majority of the posts in this forum are trying to figure out how to get out of these situations. Again, I truly hope that this works out positively for you one way or the other. But he has openly said to you he’s an addict and you are inviting an admitted addict to live with your kids. I am just mystified why you would put them in this situation. I’m sorry this probably sounds harsh. But this thread has really hit me in terms of the welfare of your children. It is hard enough when a child is born to an alcoholic parent. But they are being thrown into it when it can completely be avoided. As I mentioned in a previous post, the universe was trying to save you and your kids from more anxiety and disruption with an admitted addict. He didn’t get on the plane the first time. And I was relieved for your children. I’m not even sure how to end this post since everyone has warned you against this and it is happening. I wish you and your children the best of luck.
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Oynnet,
I think it’s a good thing you found a record of your feelings that predate those expressed in this thread. You also have the posts you have written here about his past and recent actions and their impact on you. You also have the insight and honesty from all the people who have responded here to read and reflect on. I know it’s a long flight and I think it’s a good thing that you have a little bit of time to process between having learned he’s on his way and the moment he’s actually in front of you.
I very much agree with trailmix concerning forgiveness and amends and here. He’s only doing the bare minimum that he agreed to- coming to see you on a ticket you paid for. Without assuming you see him driving to Chicago and boarding the plane today as a grand gesture, the relief / exhale of affirmation CAN make him doing that bare minimum feel like a grand gesture.His self created drama around coming to see you feels in part like a way to push you to the edge of your seat so that you feel flooded with gratitude for him showing up at all ( again , not assuming that’s how you feel, I’m concerned about the pattern I’ve read here of you giving to exhaustion while he drinks , makes excuses, and asks you to give even more)
Youve ridden a rollercoaster of angst and pain while he stalled, argued and challenged your commitment to your boundaries. In hoping that you feel grounded I’m hoping that you remain clear about that and root yourself solidly in what is, not what might be or could be if only he ( moved there, stopped drinking, dealt with his anxiety/panic , made responsible financial choices, stopped asking for you to pay his way - fill in the blank)
I also don’t want be a naysayer or vilify him - but as I said previously, I hope you will be unflinchingly honest with yourself about the reality of his sustained patterns and whether he is capable of being a real partner to you and a healthy presence in the home you and your children live in. Wishing you peace as you navigate this next step.
I think it’s a good thing you found a record of your feelings that predate those expressed in this thread. You also have the posts you have written here about his past and recent actions and their impact on you. You also have the insight and honesty from all the people who have responded here to read and reflect on. I know it’s a long flight and I think it’s a good thing that you have a little bit of time to process between having learned he’s on his way and the moment he’s actually in front of you.
I very much agree with trailmix concerning forgiveness and amends and here. He’s only doing the bare minimum that he agreed to- coming to see you on a ticket you paid for. Without assuming you see him driving to Chicago and boarding the plane today as a grand gesture, the relief / exhale of affirmation CAN make him doing that bare minimum feel like a grand gesture.His self created drama around coming to see you feels in part like a way to push you to the edge of your seat so that you feel flooded with gratitude for him showing up at all ( again , not assuming that’s how you feel, I’m concerned about the pattern I’ve read here of you giving to exhaustion while he drinks , makes excuses, and asks you to give even more)
Youve ridden a rollercoaster of angst and pain while he stalled, argued and challenged your commitment to your boundaries. In hoping that you feel grounded I’m hoping that you remain clear about that and root yourself solidly in what is, not what might be or could be if only he ( moved there, stopped drinking, dealt with his anxiety/panic , made responsible financial choices, stopped asking for you to pay his way - fill in the blank)
I also don’t want be a naysayer or vilify him - but as I said previously, I hope you will be unflinchingly honest with yourself about the reality of his sustained patterns and whether he is capable of being a real partner to you and a healthy presence in the home you and your children live in. Wishing you peace as you navigate this next step.
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