Grappling with Boundaries
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Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by trailmix 
So he, theoretically, leaves tomorrow, Tuesday his time?
Yes he sounds more like someone going to the workhouse than someone going for a fully paid one month vacation.
What he wants is the status quo and to him, his world is crumbling. You supporting him, his Mom supporting him, him having to do very little to nothing about anything. He drinks, he escapes. You are threatening that, so actually from a personality/alcoholic point of view, it does hold the same fear as the workhouse, maybe more.
Maybe more because he now has his back up against the wall. If he doesn't get on the plane he doesn't just lose the status quo, he loses you and all that means to him.
Even if he does fly to you, there is no guarantee that when he returns home that you will be willing to carry on as usual. Rock and a hard place.
I'm still hoping he does come for the visit at the very least, for your sake.
Yes he sounds more like someone going to the workhouse than someone going for a fully paid one month vacation.
What he wants is the status quo and to him, his world is crumbling. You supporting him, his Mom supporting him, him having to do very little to nothing about anything. He drinks, he escapes. You are threatening that, so actually from a personality/alcoholic point of view, it does hold the same fear as the workhouse, maybe more.
Maybe more because he now has his back up against the wall. If he doesn't get on the plane he doesn't just lose the status quo, he loses you and all that means to him.
Even if he does fly to you, there is no guarantee that when he returns home that you will be willing to carry on as usual. Rock and a hard place.
I'm still hoping he does come for the visit at the very least, for your sake.
The $40 game he bought is a co-op game, and he keeps begging me to buy it. I won't, not because I don't want it i am very interested in the game, and I've told him it is because of the number of expenses I have riding on my shoulders right now. I'm waiting until it goes on special. He sees the money I have in savings as spendable, while I very much do not. Last night, after his panic attack about the situation, he mentioned wanting to play the game. I told him to go ahead and play it, and his response was "But I want to play it with you".
It was so reminiscent of one of my kids who is calling for my attention.
He wants the status quo. The simple. The apart and hanging out playing games. But none of that is real life, and that enables him and hurts me.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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That was his rock bottom.
And I stupidly saved him. overrode my own boundaries to save him. Because he said to me "if you don't, I won't ever want to come to Australia". And I *still* resent him to this day for it.
But despite this you paid for a plane ticket & told him go ahead & arrive empty-handed? Is that on him too? This is a huge codie habit – we have to stop being angry at our qualifiers for taking and learn to stop giving instead.
He doesn’t seem interested ~at all~ in you paying for him to live close, he's vested in you funding him from afar so he can continue to live without responsibilities. It sounds like he’s been perfectly clear about this point. You want different things, so are you just waiting for him to change his mind?
It reads to me like no matter what kind of rationale these very experienced people present to you, you “but-but-but” your way around it all. I feel like you have an incredibly romanticized version of your love story in your head & you're doing everything possible in your locus of control to make sure that is the version that becomes reality. None of us can compete with that. That romantic fiction outperforms harsh reality on every level. We know; we've ALL done it before finding ourselves here, asking the same questions & shaking our heads at the same behaviors.
But what you’re finding – what we’re all trying to tell you – is that no matter how many boundaries you collapse, you’ll never achieve that goal unless he decides to become a willing participant in that process..... and all those expectations quickly become resentments. Honestly, he needs to find out who he even IS as a sober person before he can bring anything to the table of a relationship with anyone. He has no experience being a functioning, responsible adult, son, employee. I can speak from experience when I say that it’s no easier supporting someone through those changes than it is dealing with the dysfunction.
Have you considered seeing a therapist? Or attending Al Anon groups? His mother should not be the only person you’re turning to about all of this. She’s a year sober without any recovery program & she only quit due to financial reasons? She definitely isn’t capable of seeing this picture clearly for your best interests.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,740
With mental illness, whether those things in your head come from a true mental illness as we understand that or alcoholism (I think of them as generally the same), coping is a priority. People, their issues have to be secondary. Coping alone takes a lot of brain power, trying not to panic, trying to stay on some kind of even keel. You've had depression and other challenges so you know what I mean.
It's kind of like my boat here is full and if I let anyone near it, it will just tip over. So there may be some of that at play here too.
Alcoholism can play out that way too. Everything is secondary because it has to be. Secondary to the alcohol, then the maintenance of all that comes along with that.
From what you have mentioned, his Mom has held him up, kept him going (both emotionally and financially) and continues to do so. So this is not new to him. I personally don't think it's all the enabling that has got him to where he is, it's mostly just him.
Yes.
It's kind of like my boat here is full and if I let anyone near it, it will just tip over. So there may be some of that at play here too.
Alcoholism can play out that way too. Everything is secondary because it has to be. Secondary to the alcohol, then the maintenance of all that comes along with that.
From what you have mentioned, his Mom has held him up, kept him going (both emotionally and financially) and continues to do so. So this is not new to him. I personally don't think it's all the enabling that has got him to where he is, it's mostly just him.
"But I want to play it with you".
It was so reminiscent of one of my kids who is calling for my attention.
It was so reminiscent of one of my kids who is calling for my attention.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,949
From Firesprite: This is a huge codie habit – we have to stop being angry at our qualifiers for taking and learn to stop giving instead.
Oh so perfectly and succinctly put.
Such a good and needed reminder. Thank you Firesprite.
Peace,
B
Oh so perfectly and succinctly put.
Such a good and needed reminder. Thank you Firesprite.
Peace,
B
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Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 57
Over the last few years, I have started living my life by understanding that when I’m trying to force something and it is resisting or is too complicated or convoluted to make it happen, I believe that the universe is telling me that whatever that thing is is not the right choice. That the universe is redirecting me. It seems to me that the universe is continuing to try to save you from so much heartache and difficulty down the line, as you are trying to force this. I think the universe is screaming at you with his responses and the advice you are getting here to redirect and not try to force this situation. I hope you listen to the universe. I truly think it is trying to save you.
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Join Date: Jul 2023
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by FireSprite
No, it wasn't. He hasn't found that yet.
You can't be mad at him for you deciding to abandon your boundaries. Our reactions to others is still a choice WE make. That’s our responsibility.
But despite this you paid for a plane ticket & told him go ahead & arrive empty-handed? Is that on him too? This is a huge codie habit – we have to stop being angry at our qualifiers for taking and learn to stop giving instead.
He doesn’t seem interested ~at all~ in you paying for him to live close, he's vested in you funding him from afar so he can continue to live without responsibilities. It sounds like he’s been perfectly clear about this point. You want different things, so are you just waiting for him to change his mind?
It reads to me like no matter what kind of rationale these very experienced people present to you, you “but-but-but” your way around it all. I feel like you have an incredibly romanticized version of your love story in your head & you're doing everything possible in your locus of control to make sure that is the version that becomes reality. None of us can compete with that. That romantic fiction outperforms harsh reality on every level. We know; we've ALL done it before finding ourselves here, asking the same questions & shaking our heads at the same behaviors.
But what you’re finding – what we’re all trying to tell you – is that no matter how many boundaries you collapse, you’ll never achieve that goal unless he decides to become a willing participant in that process..... and all those expectations quickly become resentments. Honestly, he needs to find out who he even IS as a sober person before he can bring anything to the table of a relationship with anyone. He has no experience being a functioning, responsible adult, son, employee. I can speak from experience when I say that it’s no easier supporting someone through those changes than it is dealing with the dysfunction.
Have you considered seeing a therapist? Or attending Al Anon groups? His mother should not be the only person you’re turning to about all of this. She’s a year sober without any recovery program & she only quit due to financial reasons? She definitely isn’t capable of seeing this picture clearly for your best interests.
You can't be mad at him for you deciding to abandon your boundaries. Our reactions to others is still a choice WE make. That’s our responsibility.
But despite this you paid for a plane ticket & told him go ahead & arrive empty-handed? Is that on him too? This is a huge codie habit – we have to stop being angry at our qualifiers for taking and learn to stop giving instead.
He doesn’t seem interested ~at all~ in you paying for him to live close, he's vested in you funding him from afar so he can continue to live without responsibilities. It sounds like he’s been perfectly clear about this point. You want different things, so are you just waiting for him to change his mind?
It reads to me like no matter what kind of rationale these very experienced people present to you, you “but-but-but” your way around it all. I feel like you have an incredibly romanticized version of your love story in your head & you're doing everything possible in your locus of control to make sure that is the version that becomes reality. None of us can compete with that. That romantic fiction outperforms harsh reality on every level. We know; we've ALL done it before finding ourselves here, asking the same questions & shaking our heads at the same behaviors.
But what you’re finding – what we’re all trying to tell you – is that no matter how many boundaries you collapse, you’ll never achieve that goal unless he decides to become a willing participant in that process..... and all those expectations quickly become resentments. Honestly, he needs to find out who he even IS as a sober person before he can bring anything to the table of a relationship with anyone. He has no experience being a functioning, responsible adult, son, employee. I can speak from experience when I say that it’s no easier supporting someone through those changes than it is dealing with the dysfunction.
Have you considered seeing a therapist? Or attending Al Anon groups? His mother should not be the only person you’re turning to about all of this. She’s a year sober without any recovery program & she only quit due to financial reasons? She definitely isn’t capable of seeing this picture clearly for your best interests.
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Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by trailmix
So tomorrow is the day. How are you holding up Oynnet?
Me:There was this depressing thread to my decision to buy the game or not.
I hesitated not just because of money in my checking account, but because why buy a game to play with you when I wasn’t even sure how much longer we have.
In the end I got it, to make you happy one last time. If you don’t come, at least I made you happy one last time.
Him:
I hate that you see this as such a definitive precipice
Me:
I know you think differently to me. And I’m not mad about it. We are different people and we think differently.
Time apart drains my tank. Slowly, drip by drip. And the breakup pretty much bled it dry. I have to have this trip.
I need distance to end yes. I recognize you are not ready the same way I am. You want to stay at distance longer. The trip is the bare minimum I need to keep going at distance.
Him:
There's no actual chance of us staying friends if we don't end up married, is there?
Me:
I’m not asking you to marry me
Him:
Yes you are
Not right now
But over time
Be completely honest: Are you still holding on to hope that you can change my mind during this next month? Convince me to stay there?
Me:
Yes. It would be wrong of me to lie.
I know it is very unlikely
Him:
You're not actually ready to buy me a plane ticket home, are you?
Me:
I have the money set aside to buy it
I’m not ready to drop $3000 on a ticket that is flexible in case you change your mind. I can’t bring myself to book the $1000 ticket which can’t be changed
If the flexible ticket was $1000 I’d book it.
Him:
I'm not talking about booking a return ticket before I get out there
I'm asking you, are you ACTUALLY ready to send me back home on a plane? Even if I stay the full month?
Me:
Yes
Him:
Then why do you keep telling my mom you will be more or less crushed if you have to book that ticket?
Me:
I’ve said that once in an email to her
Him:
Okay
Me:
Will I be disappointed if you go? Of course. I want you by my side. I want time together and all the logical stuff. I want one household.
But being sad about you leaving does not equal me standing in the way of you going. Im upset every time we have to say goodbye
Him:
I know
His current position is "I'm sick to **** of you paying for everything. Our mutual friends both think less of me for how much money I've taken from you for bills and such. Everything feels wrong. I can't afford to come out there. It feels wrong to pack a bag. It feels wrong to loose you. Why does this have to be it??"
I shared with him some of what you guys have said to me. Especially the intermittent chicken thing. And I said
"I'M your the intermittent chicken. And I am over here pecking like mad. If you cannot give me that pellet. If you cannot get on the plane and give me what I need. I have to get off the rollercoaster. For my own sanity. That is why it is "it". That is why we are on that precipice."
And then he got mad, he threw down the "I am an ADDICT J"
I told him that I knew. That I wasn't blind.
"I'm so goddamn mad that you need time around me so ******* badly that you are willing to put both of us into insanely uncomfortable scenarios. I'm so tired of my stomach being in knots all the time. I just want things to stay as they are."
I replied: "And I am so mad that you think that your feelings and needs are the only one that counts!"
And he said he didn't know what to do.
I replied:
Then you loose me.
It is a simple as that.
If you cannot be a man, and step outside your comfort zone for something I have been telling you for months and months that I needed, then I cannot let you keep me emotionally on the hook.
Enough is enough
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,740
This is going to hurt, probably for some time. But, you are strong and you will get through this. Each day just a tiny bit more, then it will pick up speed. You may find at some points that you just feel relief that you don't have to put up with any of this anymore.
You now have a record here of all the terrible things he has said to you over the last little while. I'm sure it's not the first time that he has treated you this way?
Neither of you is really wrong. He wants what he wants, you want what you want, they just aren't the same thing.
He is erratic and unreliable. You two almost got married, didn't for timing reasons and now he won't leave his apartment. So there was the promise of more, but he is an addict and you never were his first priority, can't be.
If nothing else, he does not want to quit and you threaten that (even if you accept his drinking now, there was a lot of talk of help and therapy etc), which I'm sure he remembers.
As for the comment about what you said to his Mother. He didn't want you to just get him that return ticket at the end of the month, he wanted you to be ok with it too.
You now have a record here of all the terrible things he has said to you over the last little while. I'm sure it's not the first time that he has treated you this way?
Neither of you is really wrong. He wants what he wants, you want what you want, they just aren't the same thing.
He is erratic and unreliable. You two almost got married, didn't for timing reasons and now he won't leave his apartment. So there was the promise of more, but he is an addict and you never were his first priority, can't be.
If nothing else, he does not want to quit and you threaten that (even if you accept his drinking now, there was a lot of talk of help and therapy etc), which I'm sure he remembers.
As for the comment about what you said to his Mother. He didn't want you to just get him that return ticket at the end of the month, he wanted you to be ok with it too.
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Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Oregon
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This:
"I'm so goddamn mad that you need time around me so ******* badly that you are willing to put both of us into insanely uncomfortable scenarios.”
That statement jumped out at me !
Sending you lots of strength and support as you hold that boundary- I know it’s a painful place to be and I commend you for sticking to it.
I read the conversation you quoted between the two of you and the above comment , to me, was so telling - he’s angry that you actually need time in person with him- something so reasonable and so ok for you to need in a relationship , especially after accommodating SO much of what he needs at your own ( literal and figurative ) expense. You having a boundary that states if your reasonable need isn’t met that you will move on is “ an insanely uncomfortable scenario “ that makes him angry. I recall a quote that hit me hard about boundaries when I was learning how to get comfortable with setting them :
“the people who get angry about your boundaries are the ones who benefitted from you NOT having boundaries “
Yes it’s uncomfortable to be on this precipice- but he helped create it and he led you to it- and it’s reasonable, not insane, that you’ve reached the precipice after having your needs unmet for so long. The fact that he’s creating a zero sum distraction with the claim that you’re demanding marriage feels manipulative- as much as you might be envisioning that , the only thing you’ve maintained in the present is that you just want to see him and make a plan for the relationship to no longer be long distance.. both reasonable things to want from a partner. Both things you deserve.
I know the outcome is still unclear…I think he knows you mean business, I think he also knows that if he does step towards you, he will also have to deal with himself in ways he’s been able to avoid via maintaining distance and keeping you on the hook - it will hurt to let go if that’s what’s required, but you will be ok.
"I'm so goddamn mad that you need time around me so ******* badly that you are willing to put both of us into insanely uncomfortable scenarios.”
That statement jumped out at me !
Sending you lots of strength and support as you hold that boundary- I know it’s a painful place to be and I commend you for sticking to it.
I read the conversation you quoted between the two of you and the above comment , to me, was so telling - he’s angry that you actually need time in person with him- something so reasonable and so ok for you to need in a relationship , especially after accommodating SO much of what he needs at your own ( literal and figurative ) expense. You having a boundary that states if your reasonable need isn’t met that you will move on is “ an insanely uncomfortable scenario “ that makes him angry. I recall a quote that hit me hard about boundaries when I was learning how to get comfortable with setting them :
“the people who get angry about your boundaries are the ones who benefitted from you NOT having boundaries “
Yes it’s uncomfortable to be on this precipice- but he helped create it and he led you to it- and it’s reasonable, not insane, that you’ve reached the precipice after having your needs unmet for so long. The fact that he’s creating a zero sum distraction with the claim that you’re demanding marriage feels manipulative- as much as you might be envisioning that , the only thing you’ve maintained in the present is that you just want to see him and make a plan for the relationship to no longer be long distance.. both reasonable things to want from a partner. Both things you deserve.
I know the outcome is still unclear…I think he knows you mean business, I think he also knows that if he does step towards you, he will also have to deal with himself in ways he’s been able to avoid via maintaining distance and keeping you on the hook - it will hurt to let go if that’s what’s required, but you will be ok.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,244
he’s crystal clear:
“I just want things to stay as they are." “ I just want things to stay as they are." “ I just want things to stay as they are.”
no more conversations need happen.
you both want opposites.
“I just want things to stay as they are." “ I just want things to stay as they are." “ I just want things to stay as they are.”
no more conversations need happen.
you both want opposites.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by makeitwrite
This:
"I'm so goddamn mad that you need time around me so ******* badly that you are willing to put both of us into insanely uncomfortable scenarios.”
That statement jumped out at me !
Sending you lots of strength and support as you hold that boundary- I know it’s a painful place to be and I commend you for sticking to it.
I read the conversation you quoted between the two of you and the above comment , to me, was so telling - he’s angry that you actually need time in person with him- something so reasonable and so ok for you to need in a relationship , especially after accommodating SO much of what he needs at your own ( literal and figurative ) expense. You having a boundary that states if your reasonable need isn’t met that you will move on is “ an insanely uncomfortable scenario “ that makes him angry. I recall a quote that hit me hard about boundaries when I was learning how to get comfortable with setting them :
“the people who get angry about your boundaries are the ones who benefitted from you NOT having boundaries “
Yes it’s uncomfortable to be on this precipice- but he helped create it and he led you to it- and it’s reasonable, not insane, that you’ve reached the precipice after having your needs unmet for so long. The fact that he’s creating a zero sum distraction with the claim that you’re demanding marriage feels manipulative- as much as you might be envisioning that , the only thing you’ve maintained in the present is that you just want to see him and make a plan for the relationship to no longer be long distance.. both reasonable things to want from a partner. Both things you deserve.
I know the outcome is still unclear…I think he knows you mean business, I think he also knows that if he does step towards you, he will also have to deal with himself in ways he’s been able to avoid via maintaining distance and keeping you on the hook - it will hurt to let go if that’s what’s required, but you will be ok.
"I'm so goddamn mad that you need time around me so ******* badly that you are willing to put both of us into insanely uncomfortable scenarios.”
That statement jumped out at me !
Sending you lots of strength and support as you hold that boundary- I know it’s a painful place to be and I commend you for sticking to it.
I read the conversation you quoted between the two of you and the above comment , to me, was so telling - he’s angry that you actually need time in person with him- something so reasonable and so ok for you to need in a relationship , especially after accommodating SO much of what he needs at your own ( literal and figurative ) expense. You having a boundary that states if your reasonable need isn’t met that you will move on is “ an insanely uncomfortable scenario “ that makes him angry. I recall a quote that hit me hard about boundaries when I was learning how to get comfortable with setting them :
“the people who get angry about your boundaries are the ones who benefitted from you NOT having boundaries “
Yes it’s uncomfortable to be on this precipice- but he helped create it and he led you to it- and it’s reasonable, not insane, that you’ve reached the precipice after having your needs unmet for so long. The fact that he’s creating a zero sum distraction with the claim that you’re demanding marriage feels manipulative- as much as you might be envisioning that , the only thing you’ve maintained in the present is that you just want to see him and make a plan for the relationship to no longer be long distance.. both reasonable things to want from a partner. Both things you deserve.
I know the outcome is still unclear…I think he knows you mean business, I think he also knows that if he does step towards you, he will also have to deal with himself in ways he’s been able to avoid via maintaining distance and keeping you on the hook - it will hurt to let go if that’s what’s required, but you will be ok.
I want to than you for this. You are right, I am not being unreasonable. I also wanted to tell you I told him what you said here. Not word for word, but enough of it.
He replied "I also don't really appreciate how that person is oversimplifying things. Of course it's reasonable to want to spend time together. I'm not upset with you for wanting that. I'm upset for the insistence despite the ****** circumstances"
I pushed back on that, that it was always ****** circumstances. And not just because of his drinking, but because of my lack of support with childcare for me to visit him.
And he asked "There's no way I don't get on that plane and we continue to walk a path together, is there?" And I told him Not right now no.
And he said "I don't want to throw this away"
So I replied "Then you have to get on that plane"
And now he's panicked that it is 8 hours until he would have to go to the airport and he hasn't packed or got food stockpiled for his cat, and nothing is ready.
But he knows I am serious.
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Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Oregon
Posts: 43
I think you are doing a great job maintaining your boundary in a difficult situation Oynnet- it takes a lot of strength. You titled your post “ grappling with boundaries “- what you’re doing now is holding boundaries- I know you’re hurting but I think you’re doing a great job. Its hard!
I would expect him to push back on the feedback you are presenting to him, as the support you are getting from this group is coming from people who have learned by experience the ways addicts manipulate in order to maintain their status quo. As trailmix pointed out, you having this boundary is a huge threat to the status quo he wants to maintain - thus far that status quo includes financial support, emotional support, and no threat to his continued alcohol abuse. The distance facilitates his continued alcohol abuse. He has maintained very plainly that the status quo is exactly what he wants - I think you were spot on in identifying that there are always “circumstances “ in the way when you ask for your basic needs to be met.
A very important thing that he’s not acknowledging when he speaks of circumstances is that his circumstances are self created- his alcoholism is the driving factor of the chaos he’s living -the real circumstance is his addiction- he said it when he said “ J I’m an addict”. He seems to know what’s going on, but he’s not ready to take action to change his own status quo.
You’ve shared that he refers to finances as the source of the pressure he feels about coming to see you…I suspect that another thing he’s not saying, even to himself, is that removing the distance between you, especially with the boundary that it’s time to do that permanently , means he would have to maintain the 2 drink or less version of himself he presents during your shorter visits, and based on what he chooses when he’s not with you, he doesn’t want to do that. That’s no reflection on your worth - the addiction demands to be first. I’m glad you’re putting yourself first in the face of that difficult reality. It’s tough and it hurts but it will get easier.
I would expect him to push back on the feedback you are presenting to him, as the support you are getting from this group is coming from people who have learned by experience the ways addicts manipulate in order to maintain their status quo. As trailmix pointed out, you having this boundary is a huge threat to the status quo he wants to maintain - thus far that status quo includes financial support, emotional support, and no threat to his continued alcohol abuse. The distance facilitates his continued alcohol abuse. He has maintained very plainly that the status quo is exactly what he wants - I think you were spot on in identifying that there are always “circumstances “ in the way when you ask for your basic needs to be met.
A very important thing that he’s not acknowledging when he speaks of circumstances is that his circumstances are self created- his alcoholism is the driving factor of the chaos he’s living -the real circumstance is his addiction- he said it when he said “ J I’m an addict”. He seems to know what’s going on, but he’s not ready to take action to change his own status quo.
You’ve shared that he refers to finances as the source of the pressure he feels about coming to see you…I suspect that another thing he’s not saying, even to himself, is that removing the distance between you, especially with the boundary that it’s time to do that permanently , means he would have to maintain the 2 drink or less version of himself he presents during your shorter visits, and based on what he chooses when he’s not with you, he doesn’t want to do that. That’s no reflection on your worth - the addiction demands to be first. I’m glad you’re putting yourself first in the face of that difficult reality. It’s tough and it hurts but it will get easier.
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Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 93
He did not get on the plane. He started packing and then just stopped. He froze in indecision. He sent me message after message not knowing what to do. And in the end the clock simply ran out of time for him to get to the airport.
He kept begging just to delay. Just to come later. That it was just a “not now”, but I recognize that that is just a delay tactic that means nothing.
And now.. now I’m the one that continues to suffer. I drew my boundaries. I plan to hold to it. No matter how it hurts.
It’s telling that he said to me when I told him I guessed that was it for us he said “We both know you are going to keep talking to me”. He didn’t really believe me.
He kept begging just to delay. Just to come later. That it was just a “not now”, but I recognize that that is just a delay tactic that means nothing.
And now.. now I’m the one that continues to suffer. I drew my boundaries. I plan to hold to it. No matter how it hurts.
It’s telling that he said to me when I told him I guessed that was it for us he said “We both know you are going to keep talking to me”. He didn’t really believe me.
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Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 9
I'm sorry it didn't work out. The next few weeks are going to be really hard. I hope you know everyone here is pulling for your health, healing, and peace.
>“We both know you are going to keep talking to me”.
He does actually have cause to think that - every line you drew in the sand that he stepped over, you just drew another line somewhere else. If you really hold this boundary for good (and I think you're not wrong to be done with all this, it's become a terrible push/pull for the both of you), I'd be prepared for massive push back on his part. It's quite likely he's going to get really nasty and it wouldn't be a bad idea to just go no contact for a couple months rather than engage in more unhealthy back and forth.
Hugs all around.
>“We both know you are going to keep talking to me”.
He does actually have cause to think that - every line you drew in the sand that he stepped over, you just drew another line somewhere else. If you really hold this boundary for good (and I think you're not wrong to be done with all this, it's become a terrible push/pull for the both of you), I'd be prepared for massive push back on his part. It's quite likely he's going to get really nasty and it wouldn't be a bad idea to just go no contact for a couple months rather than engage in more unhealthy back and forth.
Hugs all around.
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Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Oregon
Posts: 43
I’m so sorry for the pain this is causing- but I think you’re doing a great job taking care of yourself- your eyes are open and your boundary is clear and you’re paying attention to the push back that was inevitably going to come. He’s already decided for you that you won’t maintain the boundary that you’ve set - I hope you keep reaching out here as often as you need to to stay firm in asserting what you need and deserve, I think he will test you and I believe you are strong and aware enough to keep taking care of yourself and let him deal with the consequences of his choices - besides honoring what you know is necessary for you, your refusal to further enable his status quo at your own expense may push him towards a place where he chooses recovery - that choice is entirely up to him - I hope that in spite of the pain, you feel strong and clear in your bottom line - keeping you in my thoughts, and everyone here supports you. Sending hugs.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,740
I'm sorry you now have more hurt. He has been very clear that he is not interested in a romantic relationship with you, because you know he really can't and keep his first love, alcohol. Even if you never made him choose, he knows what you want in a life shared and he is completely unable (unfit) to give that to you, or anyone else, he knows this.
Well he has hopped, skip and jumped (and stomped) your boundaries over and over, he can't see why this would be different.
There are words you use in your replies that show you are less than convinced "guessed", "not right now". It shows a lack of commitment to your boundary. However! I am not judging you or telling you what to do, just to be really clear - they are your boundaries and you get to chose what you do, of course. It doesn't matter if anyone else, including him, believes you, only you need the courage to back them up.
Here is the thing that really stands out to me. Aside from this horrendously hurtful back and forth - not only does he think you will keep talking to him, he also either thinks you just carry on as a couple or you just drop the "romantic' attachment and instantly just become friends!
Either way, that completely stops you from seeking another relationship. If you are spending a lot of time chatting with the ex online or you stay in a "romantic" relationship, you still end up without a partner in your life.
And that is even overlooking the fact that people don't immediately detach emotion when they break up. That would probably take some great time of no contact to achieve. Do I think ex's can be friends eventually? Absolutely, I am one of those people, but it didn't happen over night, even without animosity, there has to be a period of detachment.
That would probably mean no contact at all for at least 6 months or more?
when I told him I guessed that was it for us he said “We both know you are going to keep talking to me”. He didn’t really believe me.
And he asked "There's no way I don't get on that plane and we continue to walk a path together, is there?" And I told him Not right now no.
Here is the thing that really stands out to me. Aside from this horrendously hurtful back and forth - not only does he think you will keep talking to him, he also either thinks you just carry on as a couple or you just drop the "romantic' attachment and instantly just become friends!
Either way, that completely stops you from seeking another relationship. If you are spending a lot of time chatting with the ex online or you stay in a "romantic" relationship, you still end up without a partner in your life.
And that is even overlooking the fact that people don't immediately detach emotion when they break up. That would probably take some great time of no contact to achieve. Do I think ex's can be friends eventually? Absolutely, I am one of those people, but it didn't happen over night, even without animosity, there has to be a period of detachment.
That would probably mean no contact at all for at least 6 months or more?
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