Trying to stay strong and move on - LONG
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Originally Posted by toomanychances 
They'd do it to save money.
Given our history - my husband should never have thought it was ok.
Given our history - my husband should never have thought it was ok.
It's entirely inappropriate no matter what and he knows that. There is more here than he is admitting to.
Yes, he may still be interested in custody, that's true, it's just in my experience, that is not very often the case. He will have other distractions, like more drinking and if he can't have the children when drinking, the visits will become more rare.
Alcoholics in advanced alcoholism need someone, don't be surprised if he hops to another relationship right away.
You may well be a codependent, as you mentioned, but you have also been lied to, betrayed and gaslighted. That's doesn't all correct itself. Time away from him will make things much clearer, time to get rid of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt).
You can't live for such a long time with someone who is playing with your mind and not have it have an effect.
I'm so sorry you are going through all this.
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Thank you - it is helpful to vent to people who understand.
I agree there is more to the story. He just told me her house is 1.5 hours from San Fran and he wanted to see that part of the country - why go out there if you aren't seeing the sights of San Fran? to go to some suburb? yeah ok.
I'll actually be relieved when he has to use sober link to have the kids - because if he messes up - he will be in contempt.
And yes, it was said in someone else's post that alcoholics don't need people - they need resources - so he can find someone else to be that for him.
I agree there is more to the story. He just told me her house is 1.5 hours from San Fran and he wanted to see that part of the country - why go out there if you aren't seeing the sights of San Fran? to go to some suburb? yeah ok.
I'll actually be relieved when he has to use sober link to have the kids - because if he messes up - he will be in contempt.
And yes, it was said in someone else's post that alcoholics don't need people - they need resources - so he can find someone else to be that for him.
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Alcoholics who are not in recovery, for sure.
As someone in recovery for a long time now, I still feel shame over that part because using people is not in my nature and goes against everything I believe.
But I did that. I became a thing, a reptile (my description of how I was) out for my survival; consequences be damned.
As someone in recovery for a long time now, I still feel shame over that part because using people is not in my nature and goes against everything I believe.
But I did that. I became a thing, a reptile (my description of how I was) out for my survival; consequences be damned.
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Originally Posted by venuscat
Alcoholics who are not in recovery, for sure.
As someone in recovery for a long time now, I still feel shame over that part because using people is not in my nature and goes against everything I believe.
But I did that. I became a thing, a reptile (my description of how I was) out for my survival; consequences be damned.
As someone in recovery for a long time now, I still feel shame over that part because using people is not in my nature and goes against everything I believe.
But I did that. I became a thing, a reptile (my description of how I was) out for my survival; consequences be damned.
You feel bad about it now and that says a lot about your character. You won’t do it again.
My husband is a user and it was a red flag I didnt see - he used people way before he became a non functioning alcoholic. It has always been a part of his nature.
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Today was rough. How do you deal with all the rage? I’m just so hurt by him. And then he says I am defensive and I was so bad to him for so many years. I have learned I do have quite a temper and can yell quite a bit. Apparently I caused him lots of pain and permanent damage. He says I lack empathy about how I’ve made him feel for years of not liking him and years of snooping, I have owned the first time I snooped I was wrong but every other time he was off and I’d go searching for reasons why. I say that and he tells me I’m just justifying why it’s ok in my mind to snoop.
There are so many things we don’t see eye to eye on - I know we aren’t meant to be. But letting him go is so painful. I want to scream I don’t want a divorce. But I know too much has happened -it’s irreparable. I’ll never be able to guarantee I won’t fly off the handle and he can’t guarantee he will never drink again.
I missed the Al anon meeting today and I really could have used it.
There are so many things we don’t see eye to eye on - I know we aren’t meant to be. But letting him go is so painful. I want to scream I don’t want a divorce. But I know too much has happened -it’s irreparable. I’ll never be able to guarantee I won’t fly off the handle and he can’t guarantee he will never drink again.
I missed the Al anon meeting today and I really could have used it.
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Originally Posted by venuscat
Again, just my feelings, but he is um, ridiculous. You didn't do anything to him. 
s
sWhen I tell my friends I didn’t like him for years - they say they felt the same about their husbands.
When I say I yell at him over and over about the same things - they say they do that too.
He didn’t like when I told him that.
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Sure, we are all responsible for our actions, but nothing you did caused him to be an addict who won't take responsibility for himself, which is how I see all of his behaviour.
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I’m sorry for all the pain and heartache you have endured. It sounds overwhelming. I’m praying for you & your family’s good health and healing. You are a caring mother and person. Place all of your love back on yourself as well. Continue to dream of a future of peace and happiness.
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Originally Posted by toomanychances
I am sure I did things to him but now we are in a battle to see who hurt each other worse.
When I tell my friends I didn’t like him for years - they say they felt the same about their husbands.
When I say I yell at him over and over about the same things - they say they do that too.
He didn’t like when I told him that.
When I tell my friends I didn’t like him for years - they say they felt the same about their husbands.
When I say I yell at him over and over about the same things - they say they do that too.
He didn’t like when I told him that.
It is important to own your part in this (the relationship, not his alcoholism, that's his alone) but it's early days yet. You have plenty of time to self reflect, think about what you want in a partner and what type of relationship brings out the best in you. This is obviously not that one.
There are so many things we don’t see eye to eye on - I know we aren’t meant to be. But letting him go is so painful. I want to scream I don’t want a divorce. But I know too much has happened -it’s irreparable. I’ll never be able to guarantee I won’t fly off the handle and he can’t guarantee he will never drink again.
I would avoid venting that anger at him too much, only because you are just going to get his anger at you and that doesn't help you at all.
It may well be fear lurking underneath that, this is a huge upheaval in your life. In the meantime, it's helpful to stay busy. Clean, run, work out, walk, vent to us and to friends, try two Al anon meetings a day, burn off some of that energy. Also do nice things for yourself! Whatever you like, movies, dinner out with friends, being around family, get your nails done, whatever is relaxing to you. Although it may not seem all that relaxing at the time, it will help a bit and over time it adds up.
Anger can be useful to propel you forward. You will let go of it, probably, when you are done with it.
Try writing everything down, even a short and sweet list of negatives. Refer to the list every time you start to wonder why you are doing this or start thinking of the 'good times'. Remind yourself how you got here. That sounds counter-intuitive I know, but it can be surprisingly calming.
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When I got divorced I got myself into counseling and told the counselor I am 100% responsible for 50% of what went wrong in this marriage and I want to accept that responsibility and learn how to not do those things!! It was painful to admit that, that's one of the greatest things about one on one counseling though, being able to safely and privately be honest about myself and what I feel ashamed of.
It had ben so easy while in the bad marriage to point out all the ways my ex-H had come up short, failed me and the kids, been at fault. Due to my codie tendencies from my childhood training in an A home, I thought only he was to blame and his faults were the problem, after all I was just "reacting" to his foolishness, and if only he could have acknowledged his behavior and just changed then our relationship would have been smooth sailing. I had a lot to learn! LOL
Peace,
B.
It had ben so easy while in the bad marriage to point out all the ways my ex-H had come up short, failed me and the kids, been at fault. Due to my codie tendencies from my childhood training in an A home, I thought only he was to blame and his faults were the problem, after all I was just "reacting" to his foolishness, and if only he could have acknowledged his behavior and just changed then our relationship would have been smooth sailing. I had a lot to learn! LOL
Peace,
B.
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I am sorry for all that you are going through. I can at least give some advice on the whole need to snoop thing. I was in a 12 year long relationship/marriage. She cheated ("emotional affair") early on when I had my child and I was never able to fully trust her again, no matter what I endured for my children. A healthy relationship as I learned should never require a person to check up on the other or check phone records. I 100% am not faulting you for doing that, just highlighting the fact that it does bode well for a solid relationship. He has clearly given you reason to feel the way that you do and has given super lame excuses for him talking to other women.
As a husband to a new wife, I would never ever stay alone with another woman (I wouldn't have even done that to my ex, and she deserved to feel my pain). It doesn't matter if we are just friends, it is about respect and not making your wife worry.
All of what I said above doesn't even factor in the alcoholism. From my personal experience in being an alcoholic (17 years), now 7 months sober, he is only going to get worse if he doesn't want to personally take accountability. I think you are doing the right thing by lawyering up and making him face life on his own. If you go back and read some of my posts, it took some slip ups for it to stick for me, however, I always personally wanted sobriety for myself and not for anyone else. My wife and kids factored into giving me extra drive, but if I wasn't the one wanting it, I wouldn't be here to write this. I also would be divorced as well if I didn't take accountability and just passed my inadequacies onto her.
Wish you well in your journey, it definitely seems like you are on the right path (although not an easy one).
As a husband to a new wife, I would never ever stay alone with another woman (I wouldn't have even done that to my ex, and she deserved to feel my pain). It doesn't matter if we are just friends, it is about respect and not making your wife worry.
All of what I said above doesn't even factor in the alcoholism. From my personal experience in being an alcoholic (17 years), now 7 months sober, he is only going to get worse if he doesn't want to personally take accountability. I think you are doing the right thing by lawyering up and making him face life on his own. If you go back and read some of my posts, it took some slip ups for it to stick for me, however, I always personally wanted sobriety for myself and not for anyone else. My wife and kids factored into giving me extra drive, but if I wasn't the one wanting it, I wouldn't be here to write this. I also would be divorced as well if I didn't take accountability and just passed my inadequacies onto her.
Wish you well in your journey, it definitely seems like you are on the right path (although not an easy one).
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Originally Posted by Iamloved
I’m sorry for all the pain and heartache you have endured. It sounds overwhelming. I’m praying for you & your family’s good health and healing. You are a caring mother and person. Place all of your love back on yourself as well. Continue to dream of a future of peace and happiness.
Thank you. I do need to focus on me and my children.
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Trailmix - my comments are embdedded within your response:
"It may well be fear lurking underneath that, this is a huge upheaval in your life. In the meantime, it's helpful to stay busy. Clean, run, work out, walk, vent to us and to friends, try two Al anon meetings a day, burn off some of that energy. Also do nice things for yourself! Whatever you like, movies, dinner out with friends, being around family, get your nails done, whatever is relaxing to you. Although it may not seem all that relaxing at the time, it will help a bit and over time it adds up."
I was away this weekend with my oldest and I barely thought about this. It was so nice. I do struggle when its dark and dreary out and I work from home. I am definitely an extrovert and need the energy of others. I am all about self-care but it is hard to do it more than once a week. I do absolutely need to go to more al anon meetings.
"Anger can be useful to propel you forward. You will let go of it, probably, when you are done with it."
I really hope so - the rage is not attractive!
"Try writing everything down, even a short and sweet list of negatives. Refer to the list every time you start to wonder why you are doing this or start thinking of the 'good times'. Remind yourself how you got here. That sounds counter-intuitive I know, but it can be surprisingly calming."
I do need to this - I tend to forget the bad.
"It may well be fear lurking underneath that, this is a huge upheaval in your life. In the meantime, it's helpful to stay busy. Clean, run, work out, walk, vent to us and to friends, try two Al anon meetings a day, burn off some of that energy. Also do nice things for yourself! Whatever you like, movies, dinner out with friends, being around family, get your nails done, whatever is relaxing to you. Although it may not seem all that relaxing at the time, it will help a bit and over time it adds up."
I was away this weekend with my oldest and I barely thought about this. It was so nice. I do struggle when its dark and dreary out and I work from home. I am definitely an extrovert and need the energy of others. I am all about self-care but it is hard to do it more than once a week. I do absolutely need to go to more al anon meetings.
"Anger can be useful to propel you forward. You will let go of it, probably, when you are done with it."
I really hope so - the rage is not attractive!
"Try writing everything down, even a short and sweet list of negatives. Refer to the list every time you start to wonder why you are doing this or start thinking of the 'good times'. Remind yourself how you got here. That sounds counter-intuitive I know, but it can be surprisingly calming."
I do need to this - I tend to forget the bad.
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Originally Posted by Bernadette
When I got divorced I got myself into counseling and told the counselor I am 100% responsible for 50% of what went wrong in this marriage and I want to accept that responsibility and learn how to not do those things!! It was painful to admit that, that's one of the greatest things about one on one counseling though, being able to safely and privately be honest about myself and what I feel ashamed of.
It had ben so easy while in the bad marriage to point out all the ways my ex-H had come up short, failed me and the kids, been at fault. Due to my codie tendencies from my childhood training in an A home, I thought only he was to blame and his faults were the problem, after all I was just "reacting" to his foolishness, and if only he could have acknowledged his behavior and just changed then our relationship would have been smooth sailing. I had a lot to learn! LOL
Peace,
B.
It had ben so easy while in the bad marriage to point out all the ways my ex-H had come up short, failed me and the kids, been at fault. Due to my codie tendencies from my childhood training in an A home, I thought only he was to blame and his faults were the problem, after all I was just "reacting" to his foolishness, and if only he could have acknowledged his behavior and just changed then our relationship would have been smooth sailing. I had a lot to learn! LOL
Peace,
B.
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Originally Posted by jagrnaut
I am sorry for all that you are going through. I can at least give some advice on the whole need to snoop thing. I was in a 12 year long relationship/marriage. She cheated ("emotional affair") early on when I had my child and I was never able to fully trust her again, no matter what I endured for my children. A healthy relationship as I learned should never require a person to check up on the other or check phone records. I 100% am not faulting you for doing that, just highlighting the fact that it does bode well for a solid relationship. He has clearly given you reason to feel the way that you do and has given super lame excuses for him talking to other women.
As a husband to a new wife, I would never ever stay alone with another woman (I wouldn't have even done that to my ex, and she deserved to feel my pain). It doesn't matter if we are just friends, it is about respect and not making your wife worry.
All of what I said above doesn't even factor in the alcoholism. From my personal experience in being an alcoholic (17 years), now 7 months sober, he is only going to get worse if he doesn't want to personally take accountability. I think you are doing the right thing by lawyering up and making him face life on his own. If you go back and read some of my posts, it took some slip ups for it to stick for me, however, I always personally wanted sobriety for myself and not for anyone else. My wife and kids factored into giving me extra drive, but if I wasn't the one wanting it, I wouldn't be here to write this. I also would be divorced as well if I didn't take accountability and just passed my inadequacies onto her.
Wish you well in your journey, it definitely seems like you are on the right path (although not an easy one).
As a husband to a new wife, I would never ever stay alone with another woman (I wouldn't have even done that to my ex, and she deserved to feel my pain). It doesn't matter if we are just friends, it is about respect and not making your wife worry.
All of what I said above doesn't even factor in the alcoholism. From my personal experience in being an alcoholic (17 years), now 7 months sober, he is only going to get worse if he doesn't want to personally take accountability. I think you are doing the right thing by lawyering up and making him face life on his own. If you go back and read some of my posts, it took some slip ups for it to stick for me, however, I always personally wanted sobriety for myself and not for anyone else. My wife and kids factored into giving me extra drive, but if I wasn't the one wanting it, I wouldn't be here to write this. I also would be divorced as well if I didn't take accountability and just passed my inadequacies onto her.
Wish you well in your journey, it definitely seems like you are on the right path (although not an easy one).
He uses soberlink twice a day - except for when something is fishy is going on. So last night he had a work dinner and didn't test... he stayed in his office for two hours before heading home and didn't test this am. So I'm sure he drank last night at the work dinner.... and was waiting to sober up before driving home. He's going down a bad path... we've been down this before and it didn't end well.
I know what I need to do - I need to divorce him. I need to get rid of the chaos he brings into my life - and the anxiety. it is just so freaking painful and scary.
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Originally Posted by toomanychances
it is just so freaking painful and scary.
Especially if you have been married for some time, this is scary stuff, it wasn't in the plan, you didn't think you would have to deal with this, but you can.
A plan is a great thing. Write down all the things you are concerned about and go through them. You are probably feeling a bit overwhelmed? If you have a plan, you don't feel that way so much. Also remember, the house isn't actually on fire. You don't have to have all your ducks in a row in one day. Take one task a day and start on it. Try not to dip in to the other challenges until you complete one, or near complete.
It's painful, like the ending of every relationship, but there is no way around it. But it's painful now with no end in sight. I think one thing you will find, once you have a plan and get the ball rolling and even after you separate from him, is how much more peaceful you will feel.
I feel like everything I have ever said was not listened to and certainly not respected. For him to ask if that would be ok makes me think - did he ever really know me at all?
He asked because he wants to feel less guilty about hurting you. It's all about him. Not to be confused with not wanting to hurt you.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
It is scary! I think we tend to think (or at least we can), but I will be giving up this and what will I do about that and how will I manage. Then what? Do I have to start dating?? What about finances.
Especially if you have been married for some time, this is scary stuff, it wasn't in the plan, you didn't think you would have to deal with this, but you can.
A plan is a great thing. Write down all the things you are concerned about and go through them. You are probably feeling a bit overwhelmed? If you have a plan, you don't feel that way so much. Also remember, the house isn't actually on fire. You don't have to have all your ducks in a row in one day. Take one task a day and start on it. Try not to dip in to the other challenges until you complete one, or near complete.
It's painful, like the ending of every relationship, but there is no way around it. But it's painful now with no end in sight. I think one thing you will find, once you have a plan and get the ball rolling and even after you separate from him, is how much more peaceful you will feel.
I think he did hear you, he just chooses not to do it. He asked for permission for two reasons (in my opinion), so you would hopefully see how "innocent it is" (it's not) and if not, that you might think you are overreacting, at least.
He asked because he wants to feel less guilty about hurting you. It's all about him. Not to be confused with not wanting to hurt you.
Especially if you have been married for some time, this is scary stuff, it wasn't in the plan, you didn't think you would have to deal with this, but you can.
A plan is a great thing. Write down all the things you are concerned about and go through them. You are probably feeling a bit overwhelmed? If you have a plan, you don't feel that way so much. Also remember, the house isn't actually on fire. You don't have to have all your ducks in a row in one day. Take one task a day and start on it. Try not to dip in to the other challenges until you complete one, or near complete.
It's painful, like the ending of every relationship, but there is no way around it. But it's painful now with no end in sight. I think one thing you will find, once you have a plan and get the ball rolling and even after you separate from him, is how much more peaceful you will feel.
I think he did hear you, he just chooses not to do it. He asked for permission for two reasons (in my opinion), so you would hopefully see how "innocent it is" (it's not) and if not, that you might think you are overreacting, at least.
He asked because he wants to feel less guilty about hurting you. It's all about him. Not to be confused with not wanting to hurt you.
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Yes, most people don't start out in that kind of relationship. I mean the other person might drink too much on the weekends, but just a glass or two of wine during the week, with dinner.
Then maybe it's 3 drinks.
Actually if you read your first post in this thread, it shows the progression of his alcoholism.
It doesn't get better, it just gets worse, unless he stops, completely.
Addiction by it's very nature is self centered, it kind of has to be. When your main thoughts and feelings are about alcohol, it does become the most important thing. People want you to cut down, stop, only drink on the weekend, etc.
Who is going to defend the alcohol? Well the alcoholic. Plus it affects the brain, he doesn't necessarily think about things the way you do, or as you knew him to earlier in your relationship.
Then maybe it's 3 drinks.
Actually if you read your first post in this thread, it shows the progression of his alcoholism.
It doesn't get better, it just gets worse, unless he stops, completely.
Addiction by it's very nature is self centered, it kind of has to be. When your main thoughts and feelings are about alcohol, it does become the most important thing. People want you to cut down, stop, only drink on the weekend, etc.
Who is going to defend the alcohol? Well the alcoholic. Plus it affects the brain, he doesn't necessarily think about things the way you do, or as you knew him to earlier in your relationship.
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