New here, need some understanding and guidance
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Join Date: May 2021
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So there’s lots of you here whose husbands are alcoholics but not abusive? And when they started recovery you did see changes in how the person behaved? They seemed to feel remorse and have an awareness that their behavior caused hurt for others?
these are two separate issues? All alcoholics have selfish behavior but not abusive behavior and are able to hear how they cause others hurt?
i am thinking the way my husband justifies and blames things is much different than the way an alcoholic does. Idk if it’s a fine line or if it’s grossly different. I only know this way and yes, on some level I know they’re separate yet still think maybe they aren’t.
these are two separate issues? All alcoholics have selfish behavior but not abusive behavior and are able to hear how they cause others hurt?
i am thinking the way my husband justifies and blames things is much different than the way an alcoholic does. Idk if it’s a fine line or if it’s grossly different. I only know this way and yes, on some level I know they’re separate yet still think maybe they aren’t.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
You have been physically abused/intimidated, emotionally abused, financially
abused, belittled, disregarded, disrespected, and gaslighted for years it seems.
It will take time before you can sort out your truth and see what you have
been dealing with. Your brilliant daughter has been able to observe and
not buy into the shame which is incredible.
You could no more treat people the way your husband has treated you
than he could suddenly become kind, caring, honest, and respectful
of others. Everyone exists on a continuum between being kind, compassionate,
honest, and loving to being able to find joy in manipulating others, hurting
them, controlling them, having no regard for them, and belittling
them at every opportunity.
Alcoholism cannot not create a monster in and of itself. I believe it
reveals the monster that may be lurking inside (not the case with
everyone). People can change, but they have to want it more than
anything else in life, no one can ever make someone else change.
Counseling is is absolutely critical for you and your daughter going forward
and I sincerely hope you will make it a priority for you & her. Alanon
and alateen work synergistically with counseling.
abused, belittled, disregarded, disrespected, and gaslighted for years it seems.
It will take time before you can sort out your truth and see what you have
been dealing with. Your brilliant daughter has been able to observe and
not buy into the shame which is incredible.
You could no more treat people the way your husband has treated you
than he could suddenly become kind, caring, honest, and respectful
of others. Everyone exists on a continuum between being kind, compassionate,
honest, and loving to being able to find joy in manipulating others, hurting
them, controlling them, having no regard for them, and belittling
them at every opportunity.
Alcoholism cannot not create a monster in and of itself. I believe it
reveals the monster that may be lurking inside (not the case with
everyone). People can change, but they have to want it more than
anything else in life, no one can ever make someone else change.
Counseling is is absolutely critical for you and your daughter going forward
and I sincerely hope you will make it a priority for you & her. Alanon
and alateen work synergistically with counseling.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,644
Originally Posted by Macyc 
these are two separate issues? All alcoholics have selfish behavior but not abusive behavior and are able to hear how they cause others hurt?
i am thinking the way my husband justifies and blames things is much different than the way an alcoholic does. Idk if it’s a fine line or if it’s grossly different. I only know this way and yes, on some level I know they’re separate yet still think maybe they aren’t.
i am thinking the way my husband justifies and blames things is much different than the way an alcoholic does. Idk if it’s a fine line or if it’s grossly different. I only know this way and yes, on some level I know they’re separate yet still think maybe they aren’t.
My Father was an alcoholic, he hit my Mother sometimes. He said to us (me and my siblings) once - I have never hit your Mother!! Now, I don't remember the conversation or how that comment came about, but he surely did, we saw it with our own eyes, but honestly, I think at the time he said that, he did believe it.
I also never thought his behaviour had anything to do with me, or my Mom, well not his drinking. In fact, until I was an adult, I never knew much about alcoholism. I knew he was an alcoholic, I knew he liked to drink a lot, but I didn't understand alcoholism as such.
Alcoholism can include denial, justification, shame, anger, frustration. These things all have to be vented somewhere. For the alcoholic to take ownership would be to betray his one true love and best friend, alcohol.
You might find these articles interesting.
Addiction, Lies and Relationships
.
"He becomes a practiced and profligate liar in all matters related to the defense and preservation of his addiction, even though prior to the onset of his addictive illness, and often still in areas as yet untouched by the addiction, he may be scrupulously honest.
First the addict lies to himself about his addiction, then he begins to lie to others. Lying, evasion, deception, manipulation, spinning and other techniques for avoiding or distorting the truth are necessary parts of the addictive process. They precede the main body of the addiction like military sappers and shock troops, mapping and clearing the way for its advance and protecting it from hostile counterattacks".
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Join Date: May 2021
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It’s a good article trail mix. If only I could relate to it. AH takes drinking and other behaviors to an extreme, no doubt about it. But he’s never said sorry for it. Not once. He’s entitled to do it. 🤣. He never tried to fix a thing his behavior caused. The broken promises and the like. He’d never plead for forgiveness. That may have been nice.
he never says something didn’t happen that in fact did as if he has no memory of it. Unless it suits him to claim a black out. I don’t know. I don’t see his behavior in that article. He’s no doubt an alcoholic and addict. That’s for sure. Seems there’s also even more at work.
ultimately it doesn’t matter. What does matter is how it effects my life. My confusion. My pain. My damage. My kids. And so on.
he never says something didn’t happen that in fact did as if he has no memory of it. Unless it suits him to claim a black out. I don’t know. I don’t see his behavior in that article. He’s no doubt an alcoholic and addict. That’s for sure. Seems there’s also even more at work.
ultimately it doesn’t matter. What does matter is how it effects my life. My confusion. My pain. My damage. My kids. And so on.
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ultimately it doesn’t matter. What does matter is how it effects my life. My confusion. My pain. My damage. My kids. And so on.
You are allowed to want peace. You are allowed to want respect. You are allowed to want kindness and support from your spouse. You are allowed a better life. You don’t have to justify what you want. You don’t have to plead your case to anyone, ever.
What you want is hardly unreasonable…in fact, for most people, what you want is baseline for a marriage.
If he can never admit he’s wrong, he can never learn and he will never change. It works for him. And it doesn’t really matter what part is the alcohol and what part is just who he is. The results are the same and the results are you being abused and your children being raised in an abusive home.
You MATTER. What you want MATTERS.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,644
Originally Posted by Macyc
ultimately it doesn’t matter. What does matter is how it effects my life. My confusion. My pain. My damage. My kids. And so on.
Yes but what you said is it exactly, it only matters how it affects you and your kids. All you can do is keep doing the next right thing for yourself and them. He can take care of himself.
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Macy......the reason that you "can't find your responsibility/part in it"......is because you don't have any responsibility for his alcoholism/addiction or abusive behavior.
You are looking for something that isn't there---so, it follows that you won't ever find that.
Like Trailmix pointed out----over time, with study and therapy and more self-knowledge, you may find out more about your own relationship to yourself---like why you have such a high tolerance for bad behavior and why you could stay so very long in an abusive situation. You will probably uncover a lot about yourself that will allow you to grow and thrive---not to just exist.
lol....I am known, around here, for saying that "knowledge is power". In that vein< I hope that you will take some of this time to read "Co-Dependent No More". It is the most often recommended this book on this forum. It is an easy read and I expect that a lot will resonate with you.
Also, like I suggested, before---please google the "Cycle of Abuse" and study it, The niceness and "charm" that he displays. sometimes, serves as the hook to keep you in the cycle. It is like the bait that has kept you hooked in the cycle. He knows--or, at least senses--that he couldn't keep you around , if he didn't pour out some sugar here and there.
REMEMBER THIS----the two things--deal breakers--are Addictions and Abuse that do not follow the usual rules for how to behave in a healthy relationship. These two things turn the usual rules all topsy turvy. Your very strong feelings that one must always extend "Grace and Understanding' towards the awful behaviors of addicts and abusers, may need to be reconsidered for the treatment that you have been experiencing.
Another thought---a victim must never look to the abuser to help heal them. It is impossible to happen.
Macy, you will not ever get the respect and understanding that you crave from him. I get it that you want to "be seem" by him, and for him to show that you are important enough to matter. This is normal to want in a relationship---but, it has been demonstrated that this is beyond what he is capable of giving you---he is just too toxic, even beyond just the addictions.
I am glad to hear that you are putting some time an space between you and him and that destructive environment. You sure need time to think and reflect.
I really do believe that this kind of stress is bound to make you sick---physically, as well as emotionally. This is traumatic for both your body and your mind. It will wreck your spirit.
You are looking for something that isn't there---so, it follows that you won't ever find that.
Like Trailmix pointed out----over time, with study and therapy and more self-knowledge, you may find out more about your own relationship to yourself---like why you have such a high tolerance for bad behavior and why you could stay so very long in an abusive situation. You will probably uncover a lot about yourself that will allow you to grow and thrive---not to just exist.
lol....I am known, around here, for saying that "knowledge is power". In that vein< I hope that you will take some of this time to read "Co-Dependent No More". It is the most often recommended this book on this forum. It is an easy read and I expect that a lot will resonate with you.
Also, like I suggested, before---please google the "Cycle of Abuse" and study it, The niceness and "charm" that he displays. sometimes, serves as the hook to keep you in the cycle. It is like the bait that has kept you hooked in the cycle. He knows--or, at least senses--that he couldn't keep you around , if he didn't pour out some sugar here and there.
REMEMBER THIS----the two things--deal breakers--are Addictions and Abuse that do not follow the usual rules for how to behave in a healthy relationship. These two things turn the usual rules all topsy turvy. Your very strong feelings that one must always extend "Grace and Understanding' towards the awful behaviors of addicts and abusers, may need to be reconsidered for the treatment that you have been experiencing.
Another thought---a victim must never look to the abuser to help heal them. It is impossible to happen.
Macy, you will not ever get the respect and understanding that you crave from him. I get it that you want to "be seem" by him, and for him to show that you are important enough to matter. This is normal to want in a relationship---but, it has been demonstrated that this is beyond what he is capable of giving you---he is just too toxic, even beyond just the addictions.
I am glad to hear that you are putting some time an space between you and him and that destructive environment. You sure need time to think and reflect.
I really do believe that this kind of stress is bound to make you sick---physically, as well as emotionally. This is traumatic for both your body and your mind. It will wreck your spirit.
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Join Date: May 2021
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It has been traumatic. I can hardly cry anymore. It takes a lot. I love a good cry but I can’t ever get it now. Those times I couldn’t hold it in, during AH verbal lashings or scary drunken rages, tears made him worse. Even after the fact, if I cried when he’d react so hatefully over something.... bam, he got more cruel. Now, I find it hard to cry. I can feel it in the background and it builds but I can’t cry, even when alone.
the worst is well intended people, friends even, not that I’ve ever confided fully in anyone because of this but people say things that are so hard. You know “he was drunk, he didn’t mean it, you can’t take it seriously.” Or “if you tell him how you feel”. Always as if it was a mutual. Nothing about it is mutual and yes, I’ve tried everything I could.
it is heart destroying. My confidence in even my own reality, although I know, deep down I do, my logic and emotions are not aligned. That’s probably the hardest part. Like a war between the two.
Either way we did manage to have a good evening. Made s’mores. Listened to music. Acted silly. And I don’t have be in bed just because he is.
so there’s some positives even if inside, I’m a little back and forth.
the worst is well intended people, friends even, not that I’ve ever confided fully in anyone because of this but people say things that are so hard. You know “he was drunk, he didn’t mean it, you can’t take it seriously.” Or “if you tell him how you feel”. Always as if it was a mutual. Nothing about it is mutual and yes, I’ve tried everything I could.
it is heart destroying. My confidence in even my own reality, although I know, deep down I do, my logic and emotions are not aligned. That’s probably the hardest part. Like a war between the two.
Either way we did manage to have a good evening. Made s’mores. Listened to music. Acted silly. And I don’t have be in bed just because he is.
so there’s some positives even if inside, I’m a little back and forth.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2021
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Oh and I did look up the cycle of abuse. It was like that. Sometimes over a month. Sometimes over a day or an hour! The make up part doesn’t happen anymore. Not like it used to anyway. Now it’s more I have to pretend all is well. Blah.
he’s a jerk. An abusive jerk.
I keep trying to say “my abuser says....” when his words hit me. Puts it into perspective.
he’s a jerk. An abusive jerk.
I keep trying to say “my abuser says....” when his words hit me. Puts it into perspective.
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Macy.....you will be able to cry again....but, I think that it will occur, only after you feel "safe" to do so, and arrive at some more true relaxation.
I agree with you---a good cry can be very cleansing. I am a great fan of the therapeutic cry, myself.
I agree with you---a good cry can be very cleansing. I am a great fan of the therapeutic cry, myself.
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Join Date: May 2021
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Well, I didn’t consider email. I blocked him from my phone and left a note.
more like a letter. In the letter I started it by telling him “in the past 6 months alone.....” because we’d be there all day if I went back any further....... but I listed out what the past 6 months alone were like. I wasn’t emotional in it. Was like a general, held back list. Such as: If I were to go back only 6 months, and take a look at just a glimpse of what has occurred, it looks like this....... and I listed about 20 incidents. No emotions attached to it. Just events stated as facts.
The day before Xmas eve, you left work early and told me you’d be home around 5pm. At 7pm you called, very drunk and asked me to come get you. I did and arrived at 7:05, you weren’t there. You didn’t answer when I called and you never called to say never mind. Around 1 am I got a call from a friend who told me where you were and they said I should pick you up before you got taken for more money. I found you in the strip club laying on top of a stripper, literally. Kissing her. With a hole in your pants next to your zipper.
The day after Xmas......... you get it. It went like this. Was paragraphs long. All the way to “then you went to rehab. Left after two weeks. You’ve been sober for near 90 days but nothing is any different. Same behavior. Not a single apology to me or our children. Not a thank you. Nothing. If I even mention how I feel about something in the moment, the blame game starts. The name calling and diversions. I find this intolerable. I need some space and time to clear my head. A break from feeling so small and wrong. I don’t want to talk, I don’t find trying to talk to you productive or helpful. I’m going to block you from my phone. Etc
so je took a pic of this letter and wrote a response. 8 words. “Wow. Just wow. I hope you feel better.”
even in that, a seemingly calm reply, I felt so small. So minimized. So alone.
I couldn’t read those facts....... and say nothing at all to someone I love.
I know the mean stuff will follow. Point is, even when it isn’t seemingly outright awful, it is.
more like a letter. In the letter I started it by telling him “in the past 6 months alone.....” because we’d be there all day if I went back any further....... but I listed out what the past 6 months alone were like. I wasn’t emotional in it. Was like a general, held back list. Such as: If I were to go back only 6 months, and take a look at just a glimpse of what has occurred, it looks like this....... and I listed about 20 incidents. No emotions attached to it. Just events stated as facts.
The day before Xmas eve, you left work early and told me you’d be home around 5pm. At 7pm you called, very drunk and asked me to come get you. I did and arrived at 7:05, you weren’t there. You didn’t answer when I called and you never called to say never mind. Around 1 am I got a call from a friend who told me where you were and they said I should pick you up before you got taken for more money. I found you in the strip club laying on top of a stripper, literally. Kissing her. With a hole in your pants next to your zipper.
The day after Xmas......... you get it. It went like this. Was paragraphs long. All the way to “then you went to rehab. Left after two weeks. You’ve been sober for near 90 days but nothing is any different. Same behavior. Not a single apology to me or our children. Not a thank you. Nothing. If I even mention how I feel about something in the moment, the blame game starts. The name calling and diversions. I find this intolerable. I need some space and time to clear my head. A break from feeling so small and wrong. I don’t want to talk, I don’t find trying to talk to you productive or helpful. I’m going to block you from my phone. Etc
so je took a pic of this letter and wrote a response. 8 words. “Wow. Just wow. I hope you feel better.”
even in that, a seemingly calm reply, I felt so small. So minimized. So alone.
I couldn’t read those facts....... and say nothing at all to someone I love.
I know the mean stuff will follow. Point is, even when it isn’t seemingly outright awful, it is.
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Okay, so he did what he does…negate your emotions and refuse to take any responsibility. That’s him.
I assume that was an email? Don’t read them anymore. It’s a waste of time and it just sets you back.
First, you need to rest and regroup. Second, decide what you want and where to go from here. Not right away, but even making lists of potential actions to take can make you feel stronger and more in control. When you’re ready, contacting DV resources is really a good first step…they can direct you toward legal help, financial help, etc.
But for now, just be you. Treat yourself kindly, get some rest, and above all, no more contact with that toxic relationship. You know it’s poison…no need to keep drinking it, yes?
Rest.
Sending you a hug…
I assume that was an email? Don’t read them anymore. It’s a waste of time and it just sets you back.
First, you need to rest and regroup. Second, decide what you want and where to go from here. Not right away, but even making lists of potential actions to take can make you feel stronger and more in control. When you’re ready, contacting DV resources is really a good first step…they can direct you toward legal help, financial help, etc.
But for now, just be you. Treat yourself kindly, get some rest, and above all, no more contact with that toxic relationship. You know it’s poison…no need to keep drinking it, yes?
Rest.
Sending you a hug…
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Originally Posted by Macyc
i am thinking the way my husband justifies and blames things is much different than the way an alcoholic does. Idk if it’s a fine line or if it’s grossly different. I only know this way and yes, on some level I know they’re separate yet still think maybe they aren’t.
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Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 821
Originally Posted by Macyc
i am thinking the way my husband justifies and blames things is much different than the way an alcoholic does.
You won't find every alcoholic described in every article or every checklist. Every alcoholic will have their unique exceptions. But you know what you know and you know that life with him is miserable. Don't get caught up in whether he's a "real" alcoholic or whether he can change. Today, life with him is miserable. Period. You know what you know.
You'll be best served by keeping your thoughts in the present. Evaluate today.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
Talking to people who aren't knowledgeable about alcoholism/addiction
will not help you and most likely hurt you. We don't know what other's home
life is really like - what kind of rationalizing or minimizing they tell them-
selves so they are ok in their own relationships. The most dangerous is
a counselor or therapist who is not addiction educated, as they can do
far more harm to someone.
I hope you feel some calmness and peace now, it may feel uncomfortable or
weird at first but you can and will come to appreciate it and feel
comfortable in it.
will not help you and most likely hurt you. We don't know what other's home
life is really like - what kind of rationalizing or minimizing they tell them-
selves so they are ok in their own relationships. The most dangerous is
a counselor or therapist who is not addiction educated, as they can do
far more harm to someone.
I hope you feel some calmness and peace now, it may feel uncomfortable or
weird at first but you can and will come to appreciate it and feel
comfortable in it.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,118
Originally Posted by Macyc
So there’s lots of you here whose husbands are alcoholics but not abusive? And when they started recovery you did see changes in how the person behaved? They seemed to feel remorse and have an awareness that their behavior caused hurt for others?
these are two separate issues? All alcoholics have selfish behavior but not abusive behavior and are able to hear how they cause others hurt?
i am thinking the way my husband justifies and blames things is much different than the way an alcoholic does. Idk if it’s a fine line or if it’s grossly different. I only know this way and yes, on some level I know they’re separate yet still think maybe they aren’t.
these are two separate issues? All alcoholics have selfish behavior but not abusive behavior and are able to hear how they cause others hurt?
i am thinking the way my husband justifies and blames things is much different than the way an alcoholic does. Idk if it’s a fine line or if it’s grossly different. I only know this way and yes, on some level I know they’re separate yet still think maybe they aren’t.
So if you believe all that craziness will be gone by just removing one "circle" you will be disappointed.
That being said, I know a lot of people who are active/recovering alcoholics whose basic personalities are fundamentally empathetic, good, kind, people. In fact, many are. But if you start with a disordered personality and add alcohol, the alcohol will fuel that fire of abuse.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 122
Of course he just responded the way he does. I didn’t fall apart. It just is another nail. I scratch my head and wonder if I’m nuts or expect to much. Or if I think someone should be like me. Idk, I’ve never done such things. Certainly, I’ve hurt people in my lifetime. And I address it and do not respond so uncaring. My excuse making ways wonder “maybe he’s just so embarrassed”. But his actions aren’t those of embarrassment.
someone said his moral code..... yes!
I think I need to give myself permission to be done with him. Regardless of what he will say about, shift it to and so on.
I won’t read any of his follow up emails that are sure to come.
it’s a very sunny day! That has to be purposeful...... I’m going to sit in the beach and let the sound of the ocean wash away my troubles, wave by wave. A visual of sorts. Surely that’ll help for the moment. thanks everyone. The value of input from others who see what my body has been telling me for years, is appreciated.
someone said his moral code..... yes!
I think I need to give myself permission to be done with him. Regardless of what he will say about, shift it to and so on.
I won’t read any of his follow up emails that are sure to come.
it’s a very sunny day! That has to be purposeful...... I’m going to sit in the beach and let the sound of the ocean wash away my troubles, wave by wave. A visual of sorts. Surely that’ll help for the moment. thanks everyone. The value of input from others who see what my body has been telling me for years, is appreciated.
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Hi Macy. I'm sorry you are going through this... I'm sorry you've gone through any of it.
I agree 100% with what SoloMio said about personality disordered people. I've been unfortunate enough in my life time to have encountered people with PDs that did indeed become alcoholic in their quest to self medicate their ailments. It becomes beyond messy trying to sort out, and is quite impossible to do so. The long and the short of it though, is: it doesn't really matter WHY the person is being a jerk, they are and it's reprehensible the way they treat people. You are entitled to protect yourself from anyone who dismisses you, disrespects you and abuses you. I know as human beings we are always trying to figure out the logical reasons for things. When it comes to things like addiction and mental disorders, there is no way for those of us who think rationally to understand why they do what they do. It's probably hard to do right now but you should be glad you can't understand the way he thinks. You wouldn't want that.
You knew communicating with him was futile, you did it anyways, trying to make him understand why you had to go...unsurprisingly he didn't get it and then minimized your feeling yet again. This is what contact with him will always be like. My alcoholic ex husband would behave similarly when I would try to explain how something he had done or said had negatively affected me, he always turned it back on me, got angry and would yell some more. Somehow it was always my fault, and now that I was letting him know he'd made me feel bad he was angry at me for making him feel bad about it. (WTSF??? Way to double down on the abusive behavior) Blame-shifting is Alcoholism101. Dry drunks are just as good at it as wet ones.
I hope you manage to block him on email, or at least reroute his emails to a separate folder so they don't pop up in your face. Be leery of unknown numbers on your phone. I hope he wont start harassing your kids through their devices. He is their father, he may pull out his "parental rights" card.
I know this stuff is so hard. The distance and some time will clear your head of things you don't even realize have been fogging it up. Some of it may happen as slow realizations, others may come like a slap in the face ( I got a lot of those). Once I got out of the chaos and started to actually breathe in some sanity the lightbulbs that started coming on were amazing. It wasn't an easy or enjoyable process, in fact it was really rough and painful stuff to have to sort through, but it was worth it. I am a much happy, much healthier woman since I decided to change the way I was going to go forward through the rest of my life. In my case it meant accepting my part in the dysfunction of our marriage, realizing he and I were no longer healthy, compatible mates and making the decision to divorce. I knew it was never going to get better, if anything it was going to get worse, I didn't want to spend the second half of my life in that kind of misery. I watched what my mother's life had become, I'd already repeated her pattern so far, but that didn't mean I had to carry it through for several more decades. I could show my kids that it is OK to respect yourself enough to remove yourself from a toxic relationship. Like I said... it sucked, it was an awful, painful process but for me it was the right thing to do. My anxiety disappeared immediately after I moved out. My "fight or flight" instinct (anxiety) died down once the action to "run to safety" had occurred. I could think so much more clearly once the anxiety was gone.
I hope something in my story helps you. If nothing else, just to know that I understand what you are going through. I know I also heard from friends and family that I should "be glad he doesn't hit you", be glad he doesn't do this or that or the other etc... but people who haven't lived with it do not understand...just because he doesn't look like an abusive ass to others doesn't mean he isn't one behind closed doors.
Sending virtual hugs and props while you sort through these things. Enjoy the peace, enjoy the NOT walking on eggshells. Do small things that bring you and the kids joy. Please do read Codependent No More. It was a life changer for me. Also please do keep talking things through with us, this place was also a lifesaver for me.
Beaming you some positive energy from over here in my little corner of the internet!
ETA ( you posted while I was typing my reply, it sounds like you are taking all the right steps! Go you! )
I agree 100% with what SoloMio said about personality disordered people. I've been unfortunate enough in my life time to have encountered people with PDs that did indeed become alcoholic in their quest to self medicate their ailments. It becomes beyond messy trying to sort out, and is quite impossible to do so. The long and the short of it though, is: it doesn't really matter WHY the person is being a jerk, they are and it's reprehensible the way they treat people. You are entitled to protect yourself from anyone who dismisses you, disrespects you and abuses you. I know as human beings we are always trying to figure out the logical reasons for things. When it comes to things like addiction and mental disorders, there is no way for those of us who think rationally to understand why they do what they do. It's probably hard to do right now but you should be glad you can't understand the way he thinks. You wouldn't want that.
You knew communicating with him was futile, you did it anyways, trying to make him understand why you had to go...unsurprisingly he didn't get it and then minimized your feeling yet again. This is what contact with him will always be like. My alcoholic ex husband would behave similarly when I would try to explain how something he had done or said had negatively affected me, he always turned it back on me, got angry and would yell some more. Somehow it was always my fault, and now that I was letting him know he'd made me feel bad he was angry at me for making him feel bad about it. (WTSF??? Way to double down on the abusive behavior) Blame-shifting is Alcoholism101. Dry drunks are just as good at it as wet ones.
I hope you manage to block him on email, or at least reroute his emails to a separate folder so they don't pop up in your face. Be leery of unknown numbers on your phone. I hope he wont start harassing your kids through their devices. He is their father, he may pull out his "parental rights" card.
I know this stuff is so hard. The distance and some time will clear your head of things you don't even realize have been fogging it up. Some of it may happen as slow realizations, others may come like a slap in the face ( I got a lot of those). Once I got out of the chaos and started to actually breathe in some sanity the lightbulbs that started coming on were amazing. It wasn't an easy or enjoyable process, in fact it was really rough and painful stuff to have to sort through, but it was worth it. I am a much happy, much healthier woman since I decided to change the way I was going to go forward through the rest of my life. In my case it meant accepting my part in the dysfunction of our marriage, realizing he and I were no longer healthy, compatible mates and making the decision to divorce. I knew it was never going to get better, if anything it was going to get worse, I didn't want to spend the second half of my life in that kind of misery. I watched what my mother's life had become, I'd already repeated her pattern so far, but that didn't mean I had to carry it through for several more decades. I could show my kids that it is OK to respect yourself enough to remove yourself from a toxic relationship. Like I said... it sucked, it was an awful, painful process but for me it was the right thing to do. My anxiety disappeared immediately after I moved out. My "fight or flight" instinct (anxiety) died down once the action to "run to safety" had occurred. I could think so much more clearly once the anxiety was gone.
I hope something in my story helps you. If nothing else, just to know that I understand what you are going through. I know I also heard from friends and family that I should "be glad he doesn't hit you", be glad he doesn't do this or that or the other etc... but people who haven't lived with it do not understand...just because he doesn't look like an abusive ass to others doesn't mean he isn't one behind closed doors.
Sending virtual hugs and props while you sort through these things. Enjoy the peace, enjoy the NOT walking on eggshells. Do small things that bring you and the kids joy. Please do read Codependent No More. It was a life changer for me. Also please do keep talking things through with us, this place was also a lifesaver for me.
Beaming you some positive energy from over here in my little corner of the internet!
ETA ( you posted while I was typing my reply, it sounds like you are taking all the right steps! Go you! )
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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Posts: 4,215
What everybody said!
Macy, any single one of the incidents you’ve explicitly mentioned would be a deal breaker for many people. The stripper, the physical abuse in front of your children, the arrests, the things your daughter filmed. Any ONE of them would have many people out the door. You’ve experienced so many of them you have been brainwashed into thinking this is not only okay, but if it isn’t it’s your fault. You might want to research Stockholm Syndrome.
I understand your compulsion to list out all of those incidents…I still struggle with needing permission for even trivial decisions because as a child, I was continually being critically evaluated for anything I did independently of my father’s direct orders. It’s a terribly difficult habit to break. I get that.
But you don’t need his permission to leave. “I need a break away from this situation” is all that’s required, and given the history, that’s actually more consideration than he deserved.
I hope you kept a copy of that list. It may come in handy with any legal situation. In the meantime, I hope you’ll re-read all of the wonderful posts above, especially this from SmallButMighty:
Enjoy that ocean air!
Macy, any single one of the incidents you’ve explicitly mentioned would be a deal breaker for many people. The stripper, the physical abuse in front of your children, the arrests, the things your daughter filmed. Any ONE of them would have many people out the door. You’ve experienced so many of them you have been brainwashed into thinking this is not only okay, but if it isn’t it’s your fault. You might want to research Stockholm Syndrome.
I understand your compulsion to list out all of those incidents…I still struggle with needing permission for even trivial decisions because as a child, I was continually being critically evaluated for anything I did independently of my father’s direct orders. It’s a terribly difficult habit to break. I get that.
But you don’t need his permission to leave. “I need a break away from this situation” is all that’s required, and given the history, that’s actually more consideration than he deserved.
I hope you kept a copy of that list. It may come in handy with any legal situation. In the meantime, I hope you’ll re-read all of the wonderful posts above, especially this from SmallButMighty:
I knew it was never going to get better, if anything it was going to get worse, I didn't want to spend the second half of my life in that kind of misery. I watched what my mother's life had become, I'd already repeated her pattern so far, but that didn't mean I had to carry it through for several more decades. I could show my kids that it is OK to respect yourself enough to remove yourself from a toxic relationship. Like I said... it sucked, it was an awful, painful process but for me it was the right thing to do. My anxiety disappeared immediately after I moved out. My "fight or flight" instinct (anxiety) died down once the action to "run to safety" had occurred. I could think so much more clearly once the anxiety was gone.
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 980
Ive followed the posts in this thread. From what ive read I kept thinking he sounds very much like an out of control coke addict. Coke addiction on its own is no joke. Add in large quantities of alcohol & money, well this story all makes perfect sense. Possibly alcohol abuse isnt his biggest problem - its coke addiction. Also Coke use is easy to hide. Either way he obviously has crazy bad problems.
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