And we are back to normal
Skipper
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Texas, USA
Posts: 827
Moving the goalposts
Even if he threw every last drop down the drain, his telling you about it drew you into his unsteady earth mind game. He's just moving the goalposts. Actions like this make us second guess ourselves. We begin to feel unsure, unsteady.
Focus on your next right step. I promise the path becomes much more clear.
Focus on your next right step. I promise the path becomes much more clear.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
"I didn’t even notice because I’ve stopped checking our stash. He said somethng to me about it last night and I was super casual about it. Oh great, good for you. But I’m going to be honest here, this is SHOCKING. He’s never done anything like this. "
When I read this, I thought, but how shocking was your super casual reply
to him (and not checking the stash)? Was this a very different response than you would have normally
given? In alanon we talk about responding instead of reacting. The
chaos of active addiction takes us down the black hole and there is
an endless negative spiral down. A huge part is communication and
it becomes reactive and repetitive with the addict which is why
medium chill is a game changer. It helped me start responding
instead of reacting and believe me please, the addict NOTICES
and turns up the manipulation. They don't want the game to
tip out of their favor, or lose control of their spouse/mate.
When I read this, I thought, but how shocking was your super casual reply
to him (and not checking the stash)? Was this a very different response than you would have normally
given? In alanon we talk about responding instead of reacting. The
chaos of active addiction takes us down the black hole and there is
an endless negative spiral down. A huge part is communication and
it becomes reactive and repetitive with the addict which is why
medium chill is a game changer. It helped me start responding
instead of reacting and believe me please, the addict NOTICES
and turns up the manipulation. They don't want the game to
tip out of their favor, or lose control of their spouse/mate.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
Oh I’m SURE it was a surprise. He said as much, pressed me on it later.
I am doing my best to detach as much as possible, really what I need is to get out of this house and away from him so I can gain perspective. When I am with him everything seem so normal and I wonder why I am doing this, but then I just keep the facts in the back of my mind and it keeps me moving forward. We both agree that we will stay out of each other’s way for the next six months while we are away other than him visiting once a month, and then we will reevaluate our situation at that time.
He has taken 100% ownership of this situation at least and knows it is all his fault that we are leaving. He has tried to get me to stay but I simply will not.
I asked him yesterday while we were having an honest conversation what in the world goes through his head when he tells me I am crazy and that something is wrong with me in response to me being upset that he is drinking. He has said for the longest time he never understood, he did not care that it bothered me because he thought it was stupid and he was just doing whatever the other normal person he sees do. That really hurt my feelings, up until now he has never once taking my feelings into consideration, he has just written them off as stupid. What I wonder is that what he has a human being really feels? Or is it the addiction? Or does it really matter? I don’t think that is how a husband should respond to his wife when she is really bothered or hurting about something. Is that just who he is as a person and will forever be?
I know I may be happier when we are away from each other, but also what I am wondering is if we decide to end it and I managed to have a relationship with a normal non-addict human being, would at the end of 10 years with that person I end up feeling similar about our relationship and we just need to work on things?
I just wonder if there is enough therapy in the world for my husband and I to make it through this and to get to the other side with me actually trusting him. And be happy. And at the same time be in recovery. So many variables there I know.
He says he knows he needs to work on recovery while I am gone because regardless of whether or not we decide to reconcile he knows he will have this problem in any relationship and he needs to fix it for himself. I told him as much, if he does not fix this for himself and at the end we decide not to reconcile, he knows I will fight him until all his money is gone regarding custody of the children. I want them to see their father, they love him so much, but absolutely not unless I can guarantee he’s not drinking while they are with him. Me telling him this does not bother him, simply because he knows it is the truth.
I am doing my best to detach as much as possible, really what I need is to get out of this house and away from him so I can gain perspective. When I am with him everything seem so normal and I wonder why I am doing this, but then I just keep the facts in the back of my mind and it keeps me moving forward. We both agree that we will stay out of each other’s way for the next six months while we are away other than him visiting once a month, and then we will reevaluate our situation at that time.
He has taken 100% ownership of this situation at least and knows it is all his fault that we are leaving. He has tried to get me to stay but I simply will not.
I asked him yesterday while we were having an honest conversation what in the world goes through his head when he tells me I am crazy and that something is wrong with me in response to me being upset that he is drinking. He has said for the longest time he never understood, he did not care that it bothered me because he thought it was stupid and he was just doing whatever the other normal person he sees do. That really hurt my feelings, up until now he has never once taking my feelings into consideration, he has just written them off as stupid. What I wonder is that what he has a human being really feels? Or is it the addiction? Or does it really matter? I don’t think that is how a husband should respond to his wife when she is really bothered or hurting about something. Is that just who he is as a person and will forever be?
I know I may be happier when we are away from each other, but also what I am wondering is if we decide to end it and I managed to have a relationship with a normal non-addict human being, would at the end of 10 years with that person I end up feeling similar about our relationship and we just need to work on things?
I just wonder if there is enough therapy in the world for my husband and I to make it through this and to get to the other side with me actually trusting him. And be happy. And at the same time be in recovery. So many variables there I know.
He says he knows he needs to work on recovery while I am gone because regardless of whether or not we decide to reconcile he knows he will have this problem in any relationship and he needs to fix it for himself. I told him as much, if he does not fix this for himself and at the end we decide not to reconcile, he knows I will fight him until all his money is gone regarding custody of the children. I want them to see their father, they love him so much, but absolutely not unless I can guarantee he’s not drinking while they are with him. Me telling him this does not bother him, simply because he knows it is the truth.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
Always watch the actions, its what they do, not what they say.
I got to where I would hear blah blah blah when speaking with
AH. Another thing in alanon, one day at a time. Yes some planning
is needed, but spending energy wondering about the outcome
is not healthy for you. I believe in our recovery, our focus needs
to be on rediscovering ourselves. Our needs, wants, feelings,
how we "are" without the tornado of the active addict in
our living room.
I got to where I would hear blah blah blah when speaking with
AH. Another thing in alanon, one day at a time. Yes some planning
is needed, but spending energy wondering about the outcome
is not healthy for you. I believe in our recovery, our focus needs
to be on rediscovering ourselves. Our needs, wants, feelings,
how we "are" without the tornado of the active addict in
our living room.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
LOL that is a good tactic.
This alcohol issue goes hand in hand with his weight issue. When I met him, he weighed 180 pounds. Now he weighs 300 pounds, all of that extra weight to me is a physical manifestation of the drinking problem, the result of way too much beer over the last eight years.
we will see, he says he is dedicated to losing the weight and being in recovery during these next six months, I hope to see it with my eyes and feel it with his actions and responses. Things like joking about drinking, saying he wants to drink. None of those things are things people do in recovery.
Thank you for that add onto your response, yes I need to focus on one day at a time and focus on my own recovery. I plan on attending Al-Anon when I move back. Soon. I also found a therapist who is familiar with codependency.
This alcohol issue goes hand in hand with his weight issue. When I met him, he weighed 180 pounds. Now he weighs 300 pounds, all of that extra weight to me is a physical manifestation of the drinking problem, the result of way too much beer over the last eight years.
we will see, he says he is dedicated to losing the weight and being in recovery during these next six months, I hope to see it with my eyes and feel it with his actions and responses. Things like joking about drinking, saying he wants to drink. None of those things are things people do in recovery.
Thank you for that add onto your response, yes I need to focus on one day at a time and focus on my own recovery. I plan on attending Al-Anon when I move back. Soon. I also found a therapist who is familiar with codependency.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
And attending a few open AA meetings, after you are comfortable
with alanon, and ideally with another alanoner is how you will
learn to recognize true genuine recovery. A therapist along
with alanon is ideal as well I believe. And the alanon meetings
sometimes take a few or attending different meetings to
find what is best for you.
with alanon, and ideally with another alanoner is how you will
learn to recognize true genuine recovery. A therapist along
with alanon is ideal as well I believe. And the alanon meetings
sometimes take a few or attending different meetings to
find what is best for you.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
what I am wondering is if we decide to end it and I managed to have a relationship with a normal non-addict human being, would at the end of 10 years with that person I end up feeling similar about our relationship and we just need to work on things?
There's a quote I referred to earlier, not sure if it was in this thread, that goes "when we change the things we look at, the things we look at change." When you move from the place you are now, you'll be changing your perspective and things will appear different. What you can see from the bottom of the valley is very different from the view at the top of the hill. What you will see from your new vantage point will include things that are not in your field of vision right now. You need a compass, for sure. A general plan, some specific principles you won't deviate from--yes, absolutely. But it doesn't make sense to try to draw an overly detailed map when you can't even see the territory yet.
Try to keep your eyes and mind open. Getting too far ahead of myself didn't serve me well, nor did assuming that the only options would be A, B or C. So many times, after I turned a corner or a wisp of fog lifted, I saw options M, W, and X, and they were things I'd never imagined.
I know this probably sounds contradictory after hearing so much about "having a plan." However, both are necessary and both serve a purpose in moving you forward. I wish you success in finding the balance that works best (and even that will be a moving target...).
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
You are right, I know you are right. I need to keep the one day at a time thought in my head. And this is very very difficult for me, so very difficult. Not knowing the future. Having the people here ask when I am coming back, when my children will join their school again. One of my friends here who is also my neighbor is having a really hard time with all of this, me leaving suddenly. She is confused and hurt and trying to figure it out, right now the only thing I am comfortable with telling people is that I am moving to be closer to my parents for a while. No other details. Everyone here is having a hard time believing this is happening and I am trying to stay in my lane and not worry about everyone else’s emotions, but they are definitely noticeably and verbally shocked. I know other people on here have said that the people around here noticed things, most of our problems are behind closed doors and I have been very good at bouncing back and acting like things are normal. It is a shock to almost everyone. And that is making it much harder on me for leaving. Especially since I am not ready to tell anyone that we are taking space from our marriage.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 25
FWN - it may feel like you owe these people an explanation, but you don't. I only talk to people about my situation who are supportive of me. The ones who are in my corner no matter what. No one else matters but you and your kids, and keeping you all safe both physically and mentally. People are naturally curious, but it's really no one else's business.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by FWN 
I know other people on here have said that the people around here noticed things, most of our problems are behind closed doors and I have been very good at bouncing back and acting like things are normal. It is a shock to almost everyone. And that is making it much harder on me for leaving. Especially since I am not ready to tell anyone that we are taking space from our marriage.
But here's what I found out when I started telling people what was going on: Everyone and their brother had an addict of some type in their family. I swear it's true. The guy who I trained to take over my job at the bakery right after my divorce? His wife was an active A. My neighbor? Her father was one. The guy I rode with to learn my route at the new job? His son was a drug addict. My auto mechanic? Sober for over 30 years. Once I began to tell people that I'd divorced due to XAH's drinking, it seemed I couldn't sling a dead cat w/o hitting someone who was an addict/A themselves or was somehow involved with one!
So even though the people you're keeping this from may not have seen what was going on w/you, I'd be very, very surprised if they didn't have some kind of experience w/it in their own lives...
As Maresy says, it's not anyone else's business, and that's true. But sometimes you'll find support where you least looked for it. Alanon says "we're as sick as our secrets." Sometimes letting some light and air in might be the right thing; other times it will be apparent that it's not the best idea.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 223
I realize I am off in the voice of negativity on your threads about the stuff you’re AH is saying he’s going to do. sorry, I’m gonna do it again.
that’s great that he says he’s taking responsibility. But, I would be prepared for the possibility that when he doesn’t get what he wants ( you to stay, etc) everything will go back to being your fault. It sounds good now, and the words clearly had an impact on you. But until he proves that he’s taking responsibility, with a solid program, without whining to you about how unfair you’re leaving is, without him guilting you about seeing the kids or whatever, it is still just words. The only thing I have seen this guy do is not drink for several days in a row. Which she has done many times without changing anything. Everything else is just talk talk talk.
The number of times my ex said everything was his fault (many) far exceeded the number of times he acted as though he was truly responsible for the situation (none), and he was just as likely to tell me everything was all my fault again a week later. He would say it because it sounded good but he didn’t actually do anything about it to make me ever believe that was how he viewed the situation and never made changes to actually prove he thought he needed to change.
that’s great that he says he’s taking responsibility. But, I would be prepared for the possibility that when he doesn’t get what he wants ( you to stay, etc) everything will go back to being your fault. It sounds good now, and the words clearly had an impact on you. But until he proves that he’s taking responsibility, with a solid program, without whining to you about how unfair you’re leaving is, without him guilting you about seeing the kids or whatever, it is still just words. The only thing I have seen this guy do is not drink for several days in a row. Which she has done many times without changing anything. Everything else is just talk talk talk.
The number of times my ex said everything was his fault (many) far exceeded the number of times he acted as though he was truly responsible for the situation (none), and he was just as likely to tell me everything was all my fault again a week later. He would say it because it sounded good but he didn’t actually do anything about it to make me ever believe that was how he viewed the situation and never made changes to actually prove he thought he needed to change.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
His wife is getting ready to hit the door. Do you honestly expect him to say anything differently (no offense). It's his actions over the course of a very long term that will show where he is. It's all easy to make promises when you are facing an actual consequence. It's not easy to stay with the behavior long term.
Originally Posted by FWN
[left]
He says he knows he needs to work on recovery while I am gone because regardless of whether or not we decide to reconcile he knows he will have this problem in any relationship and he needs to fix it for himself.
He says he knows he needs to work on recovery while I am gone because regardless of whether or not we decide to reconcile he knows he will have this problem in any relationship and he needs to fix it for himself.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
This is pretty harsh...but also pragmatic. Does he have life insurance and is it paid up?
A weight gain like that is a huge risk factor added in with his addiction. Your kids deserve any benefit they can receive if the worst should happen.
Again, sorry to be so cold, but...
A weight gain like that is a huge risk factor added in with his addiction. Your kids deserve any benefit they can receive if the worst should happen.
Again, sorry to be so cold, but...
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
while NOT your problem, i surmise that dramatic a weight gain has a lot more going on than just a lotta beer. could be physical, could be mental, could be emotional.....but getting SOBER is the key that unlocks the door to all else.
otherwise it's like smoking a cigarette WHILE jogging.
his body, his health. one can only ignore ALL the signs for so long. well, no, actually one CAN continue to ignore signs forever, or at least fail to acknowledge them.
FWN, how are your transition plans going?
otherwise it's like smoking a cigarette WHILE jogging.
his body, his health. one can only ignore ALL the signs for so long. well, no, actually one CAN continue to ignore signs forever, or at least fail to acknowledge them.
FWN, how are your transition plans going?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
Meh. My realtor just called me earlier today saying that we can no longer move in this Saturday, it will not be ready until next Saturday. Apparently the owners are “wanting to make it nice for me “so they are re-painting cabinets, redoing backsplash, repainting the walls…… None of this I asked for. They are also replacing the electric cooktop with gas at my request (they were always replacing it because it was broken but they kindly asked me what my preference was). Overall it is very nice of them to be doing this for me.
So now we are staying with my parents next week, not the best of situations because things are stressful at their house but it will be fine. Just a week.
So now we are staying with my parents next week, not the best of situations because things are stressful at their house but it will be fine. Just a week.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 316
No, the AA here turned him off a while ago. All he’s done is not drink which honestly is fine with me until we are gone. He will either work on things or he won’t when we are gone.
Along those lines, is anyone here read the easy way to stop drinking by Alan Carr? He has that on his next book to read in audible.
Along those lines, is anyone here read the easy way to stop drinking by Alan Carr? He has that on his next book to read in audible.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,642
Originally Posted by FWN
No, the AA here turned him off a while ago. All he’s done is not drink which honestly is fine with me until we are gone. He will either work on things or he won’t when we are gone.
Along those lines, is anyone here read the easy way to stop drinking by Alan Carr? He has that on his next book to read in audible.
Along those lines, is anyone here read the easy way to stop drinking by Alan Carr? He has that on his next book to read in audible.
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