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Originally Posted by dandylion 
Dazed...would it be correct to say that you see yourself as the "victim" in the marriage.....or taking the victim role....?
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Dazed......right now you are smarting a good bit. Understandable...as endings are very very hard.
Eventually, it will be necessary for you to stop seeing yourself as the victim and start seeing yourself as a SURVIVOR...….
Eventually, it will be necessary for you to stop seeing yourself as the victim and start seeing yourself as a SURVIVOR...….
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why plot to leave a nice husband?
cuz i never wanted to get married in the first place. i just didn't know how to say NO to the proposal....at the fancy Empress Hotel....during High Tea. i also had decided to start drinking again shortly after we got married. and i wasn't going to stop drinking FOR HIM, or for our relationship. he was and is a perfectly nice man, i just didn't want to live WITH him anymore. he was sober - i wasn't.
so i planned and plotted and when i was ready, i left. i left him the house and great credit score, making my departure as easy on him as i could.
cuz i never wanted to get married in the first place. i just didn't know how to say NO to the proposal....at the fancy Empress Hotel....during High Tea. i also had decided to start drinking again shortly after we got married. and i wasn't going to stop drinking FOR HIM, or for our relationship. he was and is a perfectly nice man, i just didn't want to live WITH him anymore. he was sober - i wasn't.
so i planned and plotted and when i was ready, i left. i left him the house and great credit score, making my departure as easy on him as i could.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Dazed......right now you are smarting a good bit. Understandable...as endings are very very hard.
Eventually, it will be necessary for you to stop seeing yourself as the victim and start seeing yourself as a SURVIVOR...….
Eventually, it will be necessary for you to stop seeing yourself as the victim and start seeing yourself as a SURVIVOR...….
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
why plot to leave a nice husband?
cuz i never wanted to get married in the first place. i just didn't know how to say NO to the proposal....at the fancy Empress Hotel....during High Tea. i also had decided to start drinking again shortly after we got married. and i wasn't going to stop drinking FOR HIM, or for our relationship. he was and is a perfectly nice man, i just didn't want to live WITH him anymore. he was sober - i wasn't.
so i planned and plotted and when i was ready, i left. i left him the house and great credit score, making my departure as easy on him as i could.
cuz i never wanted to get married in the first place. i just didn't know how to say NO to the proposal....at the fancy Empress Hotel....during High Tea. i also had decided to start drinking again shortly after we got married. and i wasn't going to stop drinking FOR HIM, or for our relationship. he was and is a perfectly nice man, i just didn't want to live WITH him anymore. he was sober - i wasn't.
so i planned and plotted and when i was ready, i left. i left him the house and great credit score, making my departure as easy on him as i could.
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When I think of it now there was a silent unspoken agreement in my A about us. He did a lot around here, upkeep, repairs, improvements..but no real emotional connection. No real goals as a married couple. .... and I believe now that I think of it the agreement in his head was “if you let me drink quietly and stay I will do all of this for you!” Just let me drink, and you can have your marriage. Just don’t expect sex, or connection or a real partner! When I said no to the drinking the “marriage” halted. If that’s not usury and manipulation and games I don’t know what. These are the revelations I come to in therapy.
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no - i did not fix or change HIM, only his accouterments! LOL he was a perfectly fine human and i didn't think it was "fair" for him to deal with a drinking spouse. and i never EVER wanted him to get the idea that maybe drinking was ok. i never drank in front of him even after i had exposed my drinking to him. i could see as time went on he was compromising his own recovery a bit - he never shared in a meeting that his wife was drinking. i had attended NA meetings with him for years, and he found himself protecting "my" reputation - as well as his own.
we had just finished a kitchen and bath remodel - i had hand picked the hickory cabinets, appliances, etc. i even left my prized fiesta ware. it was kind of like the camping rule - take out what you take in. my leaving wasn't HIS fault or due to any bad thing he had done. i just needed to go. and do as little harm as possible in the process.
his truck did come in handy for the move! two whole loads. i left the piano...........
we had just finished a kitchen and bath remodel - i had hand picked the hickory cabinets, appliances, etc. i even left my prized fiesta ware. it was kind of like the camping rule - take out what you take in. my leaving wasn't HIS fault or due to any bad thing he had done. i just needed to go. and do as little harm as possible in the process.
his truck did come in handy for the move! two whole loads. i left the piano...........
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
no - i did not fix or change HIM, only his accouterments! LOL
we had just finished a kitchen and bath remodel - i had hand picked the hickory cabinets, appliances, etc. i even left my prized fiesta ware. it was kind of like the camping rule - take out what you take in. my leaving wasn't HIS fault or due to any bad thing he had done. i just needed to go. and do as little harm as possible in the process.
his truck did come in handy for the move! two whole loads. i left the piano...........
we had just finished a kitchen and bath remodel - i had hand picked the hickory cabinets, appliances, etc. i even left my prized fiesta ware. it was kind of like the camping rule - take out what you take in. my leaving wasn't HIS fault or due to any bad thing he had done. i just needed to go. and do as little harm as possible in the process.
his truck did come in handy for the move! two whole loads. i left the piano...........
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Originally Posted by Dazedandconfus
When I think of it now there was a silent unspoken agreement in my A about us. He did a lot around here, upkeep, repairs, improvements..but no real emotional connection. No real goals as a married couple. .... and I believe now that I think of it the agreement in his head was “if you let me drink quietly and stay I will do all of this for you!” Just let me drink, and you can have your marriage. Just don’t expect sex, or connection or a real partner! When I said no to the drinking the “marriage” halted. If that’s not usury and manipulation and games I don’t know what. These are the revelations I come to in therapy.
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i did forget to grab some stuff. he held my deceased mother's prized brass fishing reel hostage. when i asked for it he said....this still just kills me....I'm Using It. that was the only time he acted like a douche. he did finally let me come get it...he left it on the porch. it was like his version of F you. LOL
i hope sharing some of this gives you an insight into how marriages can dissolve but don't have to leave anyone bleeding or eviscerated.
i hope sharing some of this gives you an insight into how marriages can dissolve but don't have to leave anyone bleeding or eviscerated.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
i did forget to grab some stuff. he held my deceased mother's prized brass fishing reel hostage. when i asked for it he said....this still just kills me....I'm Using It. that was the only time he acted like a douche. he did finally let me come get it...he left it on the porch. it was like his version of F you. LOL
i hope sharing some of this gives you an insight into how marriages can dissolve but don't have to leave anyone bleeding or eviscerated.
i hope sharing some of this gives you an insight into how marriages can dissolve but don't have to leave anyone bleeding or eviscerated.
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Dazed......just an observation---there can be no "agreement" without 2 people. Both have to agree....whether it is a written agreement,or a silent agreement.
For all those years....was that enough for you...property maintenance, but no sex or emotional connection or mutual goals...? For all those years, was that enough for you? Sounds l ike it must have been, or you wouldn't/couldn't stay....
I'm not trying to be critical....Just saying that not all people require the same amount of closeness in a relationship.....For some, it is enough to have another person present and reliable....while they live, mostly, within their own "world"....
It is said (not by me...but, by psychologists) that each couple has an unspoken agreement about how much closeness or distance they want in their relationship...And--if one or the other tries to change that amount of distance---either to more or less....there is hell to pay!
From where I sit...is sounds like alcoholism threw a monkey wrench into the situation....
All was going along swimmingly....at least in silent agreement between both of you...until the insanity of alcoholism raised it's head...…?
For all those years....was that enough for you...property maintenance, but no sex or emotional connection or mutual goals...? For all those years, was that enough for you? Sounds l ike it must have been, or you wouldn't/couldn't stay....
I'm not trying to be critical....Just saying that not all people require the same amount of closeness in a relationship.....For some, it is enough to have another person present and reliable....while they live, mostly, within their own "world"....
It is said (not by me...but, by psychologists) that each couple has an unspoken agreement about how much closeness or distance they want in their relationship...And--if one or the other tries to change that amount of distance---either to more or less....there is hell to pay!
From where I sit...is sounds like alcoholism threw a monkey wrench into the situation....
All was going along swimmingly....at least in silent agreement between both of you...until the insanity of alcoholism raised it's head...…?
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Dazed......just an observation---there can be no "agreement" without 2 people. Both have to agree....whether it is a written agreement,or a silent agreement.
For all those years....was that enough for you...property maintenance, but no sex or emotional connection or mutual goals...? For all those years, was that enough for you? Sounds l ike it must have been, or you wouldn't/couldn't stay....
I'm not trying to be critical....Just saying that not all people require the same amount of closeness in a relationship.....For some, it is enough to have another person present and reliable....while they live, mostly, within their own "world"....
It is said (not by me...but, by psychologists) that each couple has an unspoken agreement about how much closeness or distance they want in their relationship...And--if one or the other tries to change that amount of distance---either to more or less....there is hell to pay!
From where I sit...is sounds like alcoholism threw a monkey wrench into the situation....
All was going along swimmingly....at least in silent agreement between both of you...until the insanity of alcoholism raised it's head...…?
For all those years....was that enough for you...property maintenance, but no sex or emotional connection or mutual goals...? For all those years, was that enough for you? Sounds l ike it must have been, or you wouldn't/couldn't stay....
I'm not trying to be critical....Just saying that not all people require the same amount of closeness in a relationship.....For some, it is enough to have another person present and reliable....while they live, mostly, within their own "world"....
It is said (not by me...but, by psychologists) that each couple has an unspoken agreement about how much closeness or distance they want in their relationship...And--if one or the other tries to change that amount of distance---either to more or less....there is hell to pay!
From where I sit...is sounds like alcoholism threw a monkey wrench into the situation....
All was going along swimmingly....at least in silent agreement between both of you...until the insanity of alcoholism raised it's head...…?
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Originally Posted by Dazedandconfus
no, we argued about those things a lot. Clearly he was drinking more than I knew. Yes there was hell to pay at times when I tried to get close emotionally, and then sexually we would get our needs met only for it to return to the distance. I would go along to get along as my Alanon mtgs told me to keep the focus on me. So, I hoped. Remember I told you 2 years ago he was involuntarily committed into a hospital for 2 weeks because of alcohol. ICU, intubation, he almost died. One doesn’t get there over night. He is a “functional alcoholic”. But clearly it’s progressing. I had hoped that we could overcome that...it didn’t start out that way. There was and still is on my part a deep love for him. I yearn for him...still.
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What Anvil said about alcoholics having one foot out the door.
I don't see that as manipulation, I see that as realism. It might be that, oh eventually he/she will want me to stop drinking and I will have to get a move on.
Alternately it could be, no person will be able to put up with this for 15 years, 20 years, 30 years, so first I need to not get too invested (possibly) and second I need to be ready to leave at the drop of a hat.
That might not be in the initial relationship, alcoholism progresses, the drinking worsens the behaviour worsens, the alcohol becomes more important. Alcoholics are not stupid, they see their behaviour, perhaps more clearly early on (or whenever, all people are different).
I don't see that as manipulation, I see that as realism. It might be that, oh eventually he/she will want me to stop drinking and I will have to get a move on.
Alternately it could be, no person will be able to put up with this for 15 years, 20 years, 30 years, so first I need to not get too invested (possibly) and second I need to be ready to leave at the drop of a hat.
That might not be in the initial relationship, alcoholism progresses, the drinking worsens the behaviour worsens, the alcohol becomes more important. Alcoholics are not stupid, they see their behaviour, perhaps more clearly early on (or whenever, all people are different).
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Originally Posted by trailmix
What Anvil said about alcoholics having one foot out the door.
I don't see that as manipulation, I see that as realism. It might be that, oh eventually he/she will want me to stop drinking and I will have to get a move on.
Alternately it could be, no person will be able to put up with this for 15 years, 20 years, 30 years, so first I need to not get too invested (possibly) and second I need to be ready to leave at the drop of a hat.
That might not be in the initial relationship, alcoholism progresses, the drinking worsens the behaviour worsens, the alcohol becomes more important. Alcoholics are not stupid, they see their behaviour, perhaps more clearly early on (or whenever, all people are different).
I don't see that as manipulation, I see that as realism. It might be that, oh eventually he/she will want me to stop drinking and I will have to get a move on.
Alternately it could be, no person will be able to put up with this for 15 years, 20 years, 30 years, so first I need to not get too invested (possibly) and second I need to be ready to leave at the drop of a hat.
That might not be in the initial relationship, alcoholism progresses, the drinking worsens the behaviour worsens, the alcohol becomes more important. Alcoholics are not stupid, they see their behaviour, perhaps more clearly early on (or whenever, all people are different).
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Originally Posted by trailmix
What Anvil said about alcoholics having one foot out the door.
I don't see that as manipulation, I see that as realism. It might be that, oh eventually he/she will want me to stop drinking and I will have to get a move on.
Alternately it could be, no person will be able to put up with this for 15 years, 20 years, 30 years, so first I need to not get too invested (possibly) and second I need to be ready to leave at the drop of a hat.
That might not be in the initial relationship, alcoholism progresses, the drinking worsens the behaviour worsens, the alcohol becomes more important. Alcoholics are not stupid, they see their behaviour, perhaps more clearly early on (or whenever, all people are different).
I don't see that as manipulation, I see that as realism. It might be that, oh eventually he/she will want me to stop drinking and I will have to get a move on.
Alternately it could be, no person will be able to put up with this for 15 years, 20 years, 30 years, so first I need to not get too invested (possibly) and second I need to be ready to leave at the drop of a hat.
That might not be in the initial relationship, alcoholism progresses, the drinking worsens the behaviour worsens, the alcohol becomes more important. Alcoholics are not stupid, they see their behaviour, perhaps more clearly early on (or whenever, all people are different).
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Originally Posted by Bekindalways
I'm thinking that there is no human who can compete with the alcohol or substance that is being consumed. That will always be their first love.
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Towards the end of my relationship with her, I don't think I had much if any courage. I was weak with her & she knew it. She took advantage of my weakness at every turn.
What I did have was resolve to make a change. I had to change the dynamics of my ugly situation.
Even for me today continuing to stay away from her is my resolve. I am not going back down that road come hell or high water.
What I did have was resolve to make a change. I had to change the dynamics of my ugly situation.
Even for me today continuing to stay away from her is my resolve. I am not going back down that road come hell or high water.
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