thoughts about exAH who has passed away
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Thanks all for reading through my seemingly endless process here.
My update on the seething volcano of anger I appear to have become:
I was reading a memoir about cancer last night, and the writer described being filled with similar anger towards the world in all its manifestations during her treatments. She speculated that “anger is a tentacle of constant exhaustion”, which describes the anxiety of living with cancer, even when the treatment is going as well as possible. I think there are parallels to living with addiction, even after the addict has taken himself out of the picture. Exhaustion is cumulative, it’s not like a light switch - snap on, snap off once the source of the problem dies.
Also - I was wondering today if I may be just really done with being angry at ex. As pretty much everyone on these boards knows, being angry at an alcoholic for being an alcoholic is a fruitless endeavor. I spent many years like that; I don’t want to continue. I don’t want to think about ex any more than I absolutely have to. But the anger is still there (see above re not like a light switch). So it manifests itself connected to other things in my environment (people who answer questions with questions, etc). It is like, dare I say, a hangover - the alcohol is gone, but the headache and nausea are still with you for a while, and will manifest themselves connected to other things.
My update on the seething volcano of anger I appear to have become:
I was reading a memoir about cancer last night, and the writer described being filled with similar anger towards the world in all its manifestations during her treatments. She speculated that “anger is a tentacle of constant exhaustion”, which describes the anxiety of living with cancer, even when the treatment is going as well as possible. I think there are parallels to living with addiction, even after the addict has taken himself out of the picture. Exhaustion is cumulative, it’s not like a light switch - snap on, snap off once the source of the problem dies.
Also - I was wondering today if I may be just really done with being angry at ex. As pretty much everyone on these boards knows, being angry at an alcoholic for being an alcoholic is a fruitless endeavor. I spent many years like that; I don’t want to continue. I don’t want to think about ex any more than I absolutely have to. But the anger is still there (see above re not like a light switch). So it manifests itself connected to other things in my environment (people who answer questions with questions, etc). It is like, dare I say, a hangover - the alcohol is gone, but the headache and nausea are still with you for a while, and will manifest themselves connected to other things.
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interesting that your anger is now an outward force and seemingly not aimed at any one specific compass point or location. sort of like on Nat Geo or whatever when they show us what a supernova looks like - or even the big bang - it all just went poof (or boom) outward in a perfect radius from it's core.
maybe you're supernova'ing? all that hot heavy molten crap got so condensed it could no longer be contained inside you?
in fact, i think they found you!
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...distant-galaxy
maybe you're supernova'ing? all that hot heavy molten crap got so condensed it could no longer be contained inside you?
in fact, i think they found you!
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...distant-galaxy
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Interesting Sasha. Although I don't see anger as an endeavor; it is just an emotion and is a reaction to something a person has lived through. It is like bleeding or physical pain; it isn't appropriate or inappropriate; it is just a natural reaction to having been hurt.
I like the poem/essay The Guest House. I think it is Sufi or something like that. It talks about how crap emotions are visitor/teachers. If you can let whatever you feel come and feel it all and then let it go . . . .and do this many many many times. I've heard that this brings us into greater human growth. Alcoholics are often stunted as they treated their feelings with drink rather than living through them . . . I'm probably preaching to the choir here as you probably know most of this.
I like the poem/essay The Guest House. I think it is Sufi or something like that. It talks about how crap emotions are visitor/teachers. If you can let whatever you feel come and feel it all and then let it go . . . .and do this many many many times. I've heard that this brings us into greater human growth. Alcoholics are often stunted as they treated their feelings with drink rather than living through them . . . I'm probably preaching to the choir here as you probably know most of this.
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Sasha......LOl...I can relate to that same kind of irritation.....for me, it is people making statements via rhetorical questions.....Grrr…….
Whenever I have felt like you describe, now....it was always when I had been overextended...for too long.....
too much going out...not enough coming in!!
Whenever I have felt like you describe, now....it was always when I had been overextended...for too long.....
too much going out...not enough coming in!!
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Sasha-
My hook into anger was very different, but man did I have a lot of it there once I let myself feel it.
I don't think I had allowed it ever and it felt huge, messy and like I was a bad person for having it. In all honesty I had let it fester and stew for so long that it did come out like a molten lava explosion.
It really was a gift though in the big picture. I read "The Dance with Anger" by Harriet Lerner and it helped. I love the Rumi poem that was mentioned previously because it helped me to re-frame my anger
The Guest House
This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice.
meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.
Be grateful for whatever comes.
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.
Anger helped me into movement, physical, emotional etc and to get unstuck.
Finally I heard a quote once "Depression is anger turned inward and anger is depression turned outward." I needed some time of all this emotion being out of me, of not comparing my situation to anyone else's (because in the big picture I have a great life). I had spent to long turning it inward.
When I finally touched into anger my therapist clapped for me and encouraged me to feel it and be with it so I could work through it. I am not saying it was easy, but I am glad I did it.
My hook into anger was very different, but man did I have a lot of it there once I let myself feel it.
I don't think I had allowed it ever and it felt huge, messy and like I was a bad person for having it. In all honesty I had let it fester and stew for so long that it did come out like a molten lava explosion.
It really was a gift though in the big picture. I read "The Dance with Anger" by Harriet Lerner and it helped. I love the Rumi poem that was mentioned previously because it helped me to re-frame my anger
The Guest House
This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice.
meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.
Be grateful for whatever comes.
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.
Anger helped me into movement, physical, emotional etc and to get unstuck.
Finally I heard a quote once "Depression is anger turned inward and anger is depression turned outward." I needed some time of all this emotion being out of me, of not comparing my situation to anyone else's (because in the big picture I have a great life). I had spent to long turning it inward.
When I finally touched into anger my therapist clapped for me and encouraged me to feel it and be with it so I could work through it. I am not saying it was easy, but I am glad I did it.
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Hi Sasha, I guess you're going through a process of re-adjustment to not having him to worry about. It's very common to hear someone whose partner is now sober, and who is no longer in survival mode, finds themselves getting angry.
I don't know of any books on the effect of the release of stress but I'm sure they're out there. I'm also sure this is another stage you will move through, to be endured for now, but hopefully not for long.
I don't know of any books on the effect of the release of stress but I'm sure they're out there. I'm also sure this is another stage you will move through, to be endured for now, but hopefully not for long.
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I've read a lot about this kind of anger being a normal part of the process for a lot of people - Nora McInerny spoke on this topic in her book & podcast. I've had cycles of unreasonable anger pop up during this last year+ & it took me a long minute to realize it was tied to my grieving process since it wasn't a direct line to the things I was grieving in any way.
I just heard about these things called Rage Rooms & I'm trying to get my friends to go & rage together. I'm sure it's just new to me/my area & it looks like a great way to vent anger because you essentially pay them to give you a safe space to go crazy breaking/smashing things. The one I found locally was started by a military vet because it helped him so much with his PTSD.
I just heard about these things called Rage Rooms & I'm trying to get my friends to go & rage together. I'm sure it's just new to me/my area & it looks like a great way to vent anger because you essentially pay them to give you a safe space to go crazy breaking/smashing things. The one I found locally was started by a military vet because it helped him so much with his PTSD.
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Thank you - it really helps to get some validation or reassurance that I haven't turned into the Incredible Hulk minus the purple shorts. Because this grief is so complicated - I am not really sad that ex is dead and in many ways I am relieved, but I am sad about what he did with his life and angry about how he hurt me, Kid and others - I don't know if I am "legitimately" grieving or just freaking out for no good reason.
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I'm voting "legit"..... don't gloss over the fact that you & your Ex were still actively engaged in legal battles & that alone may have held you off from really feeling your anger that was independent of grieving his sudden death. I mean, c'mon - he was making your life a living hell whenever & however possible.
So now that he has passed, you finally have the emotionally safe space to let it go. It IS complicated & multi-layered.
I LOST IT on a guy in Walgreens one morning about a year ago & while he was rude & wrong, my reaction was outrageous & not at all like the Recovering Me. I'm talking shaking from head to toe, could not stop engaging, taking his crappy behavior personally type of Fury.
It was like a volcano erupted & I could not stop it if I wanted to - my anger had been waiting for a trigger/release & as soon as opportunity knocked, I flung the door open wide & took full advantage of the validation to let my anger fly. I shared the story with my boss (we're close friends too) & a few days later, a battery-operated therapy cat arrived for me.
Personally, I think it's a good thing that you're going through this Sasha - it's evidence that you are moving through the emotions instead of stuffing them down so that they geyser back up in the form of sickness or depression years from now. It's hell to go through but it's better than staying stuck. It's HEALTHY.
So now that he has passed, you finally have the emotionally safe space to let it go. It IS complicated & multi-layered.
I LOST IT on a guy in Walgreens one morning about a year ago & while he was rude & wrong, my reaction was outrageous & not at all like the Recovering Me. I'm talking shaking from head to toe, could not stop engaging, taking his crappy behavior personally type of Fury.
It was like a volcano erupted & I could not stop it if I wanted to - my anger had been waiting for a trigger/release & as soon as opportunity knocked, I flung the door open wide & took full advantage of the validation to let my anger fly. I shared the story with my boss (we're close friends too) & a few days later, a battery-operated therapy cat arrived for me.
Personally, I think it's a good thing that you're going through this Sasha - it's evidence that you are moving through the emotions instead of stuffing them down so that they geyser back up in the form of sickness or depression years from now. It's hell to go through but it's better than staying stuck. It's HEALTHY.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite 
I'm voting "legit"..... don't gloss over the fact that you & your Ex were still actively engaged in legal battles & that alone may have held you off from really feeling your anger that was independent of grieving his sudden death. I mean, c'mon - he was making your life a living hell whenever & however possible.
So now that he has passed, you finally have the emotionally safe space to let it go. It IS complicated & multi-layered.
I LOST IT on a guy in Walgreens one morning about a year ago & while he was rude & wrong, my reaction was outrageous & not at all like the Recovering Me. I'm talking shaking from head to toe, could not stop engaging, taking his crappy behavior personally type of Fury.
It was like a volcano erupted & I could not stop it if I wanted to - my anger had been waiting for a trigger/release & as soon as opportunity knocked, I flung the door open wide & took full advantage of the validation to let my anger fly. I shared the story with my boss (we're close friends too) & a few days later, a battery-operated therapy cat arrived for me.
Personally, I think it's a good thing that you're going through this Sasha - it's evidence that you are moving through the emotions instead of stuffing them down so that they geyser back up in the form of sickness or depression years from now. It's hell to go through but it's better than staying stuck. It's HEALTHY.
So now that he has passed, you finally have the emotionally safe space to let it go. It IS complicated & multi-layered.
I LOST IT on a guy in Walgreens one morning about a year ago & while he was rude & wrong, my reaction was outrageous & not at all like the Recovering Me. I'm talking shaking from head to toe, could not stop engaging, taking his crappy behavior personally type of Fury.
It was like a volcano erupted & I could not stop it if I wanted to - my anger had been waiting for a trigger/release & as soon as opportunity knocked, I flung the door open wide & took full advantage of the validation to let my anger fly. I shared the story with my boss (we're close friends too) & a few days later, a battery-operated therapy cat arrived for me.
Personally, I think it's a good thing that you're going through this Sasha - it's evidence that you are moving through the emotions instead of stuffing them down so that they geyser back up in the form of sickness or depression years from now. It's hell to go through but it's better than staying stuck. It's HEALTHY.
I myself have been having some intense anger over relatively minor events. I've kind of realized it is grief too. I lost my mom in January to Alzheimers which wasn't too bad but now my dad is getting worse. Somehow my lizard brain had some kind of deal with reality that mom going was okay but not my Dad . . . ugh . . . . off to shop for some purple shorts.
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Today’s random thought about what’s with all this anger (with some input from my therapist, but I don’t want to be one of those people who’s all “my therapist says ...”):
Emerging after 30 years of dealing with an alcoholic who went from being a functional normal person to being batsh!t crazy and dangerous means going through a process of reinventing myself (similar to what we go through after divorce from a long marriage) - who am I without this enormous shadow on me? This means in some ways starting a developmental process like a very young child discovering who they are.
When little kids are learning language, they overgeneralize. At first they react to anything with four legs by saying “kitty!” (or doggie or horsie), over time they start to discriminate - a kitty isn’t a doggie - and their reactions change accordingly - they learn the true names of things. I’m rewiring a permanently agitated fight-or-flight response system and may be doing something similar.
I’m in the overgeneralization phase now - anything that is slightly anxiety-provoking (like someone who wants me to do things for them) elicits a “fight” response, which I experience as anger. The difference between now and when ex was alive is that I’m more aware of my fight responses and they feel odd or weird or “what’s going on here?”. They no longer feel natural or inevitable, part of my mental landscape.
I’m in the process of learning to discriminate with emotion and parasympathetic response the same way a kid learns to discriminate with words. Not everything that intrudes on me is an alcoholic-ish danger or threat, just like not everything with four legs is a doggie. The fact that I’m able to reflect on the experience of being angry all the time is like a little kid reflecting on the way that people respond when they call a horse a dog - “no, honey, that’s a horse”. We are both learning from experience.
Over time, my emotional/neurological response will become more selective - anger for things which really are a big problem for me, mild annoyance for things which are not. At least I hope so.
I think there are probably several processes going on at once with anger, so this ^^ isn’t the whole story - but it may be part of the story.
Emerging after 30 years of dealing with an alcoholic who went from being a functional normal person to being batsh!t crazy and dangerous means going through a process of reinventing myself (similar to what we go through after divorce from a long marriage) - who am I without this enormous shadow on me? This means in some ways starting a developmental process like a very young child discovering who they are.
When little kids are learning language, they overgeneralize. At first they react to anything with four legs by saying “kitty!” (or doggie or horsie), over time they start to discriminate - a kitty isn’t a doggie - and their reactions change accordingly - they learn the true names of things. I’m rewiring a permanently agitated fight-or-flight response system and may be doing something similar.
I’m in the overgeneralization phase now - anything that is slightly anxiety-provoking (like someone who wants me to do things for them) elicits a “fight” response, which I experience as anger. The difference between now and when ex was alive is that I’m more aware of my fight responses and they feel odd or weird or “what’s going on here?”. They no longer feel natural or inevitable, part of my mental landscape.
I’m in the process of learning to discriminate with emotion and parasympathetic response the same way a kid learns to discriminate with words. Not everything that intrudes on me is an alcoholic-ish danger or threat, just like not everything with four legs is a doggie. The fact that I’m able to reflect on the experience of being angry all the time is like a little kid reflecting on the way that people respond when they call a horse a dog - “no, honey, that’s a horse”. We are both learning from experience.
Over time, my emotional/neurological response will become more selective - anger for things which really are a big problem for me, mild annoyance for things which are not. At least I hope so.
I think there are probably several processes going on at once with anger, so this ^^ isn’t the whole story - but it may be part of the story.
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Today's minor update:
After ex died, I let people know that I would be compiling a book of memories or reminiscences about ex to give to Kid so she has some positive stories about her father - so please send me any happy or funny memories you have of ex from high school/university/work/wherever. Lots of people said "oh, what a great idea! I'll definitely jot down a few thoughts! Love that you're doing this for Kid!". I asked people to send them to me by today, so I can get this memory book printed and done with before school starts.
You guessed it - almost no one has followed through. A few people sent in stories, all from at least 15 years ago, and most of them from people who were primarily my friends. Nothing from his most recent ex-wife or her daughter (with whom I'm on good terms), nothing from the girlfriend he had when he died, nothing from what remains of his family of origin, nothing from his erstwhile best friend.
It's another dimension of "addiction is sad". If you're an alcoholic long enough, you will betray, shock or isolate yourself from everyone to the extent that they don't want anything to do with you even after you're dead. In this case the person left picking up the pieces is the only person who couldn't get away from the alcoholic (me) because I had a child with him.
After ex died, I let people know that I would be compiling a book of memories or reminiscences about ex to give to Kid so she has some positive stories about her father - so please send me any happy or funny memories you have of ex from high school/university/work/wherever. Lots of people said "oh, what a great idea! I'll definitely jot down a few thoughts! Love that you're doing this for Kid!". I asked people to send them to me by today, so I can get this memory book printed and done with before school starts.
You guessed it - almost no one has followed through. A few people sent in stories, all from at least 15 years ago, and most of them from people who were primarily my friends. Nothing from his most recent ex-wife or her daughter (with whom I'm on good terms), nothing from the girlfriend he had when he died, nothing from what remains of his family of origin, nothing from his erstwhile best friend.
It's another dimension of "addiction is sad". If you're an alcoholic long enough, you will betray, shock or isolate yourself from everyone to the extent that they don't want anything to do with you even after you're dead. In this case the person left picking up the pieces is the only person who couldn't get away from the alcoholic (me) because I had a child with him.
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You know, Sasha, maybe it’s just as well?
After my father died there were all these people saying how kind he was to their children and what a patient mentor he was to young people starting out in his workplace.
My reaction was
Then my inner little kid piped up with, “Why wasn’t he that way with me? What was wrong with me?” I’m chronologically an adult, so I can mostly handle this dissonance. Mostly.
But your daughter has enough mixed feelings to process as it is, maybe?
As always, I send my admiration for your grace under fire.
After my father died there were all these people saying how kind he was to their children and what a patient mentor he was to young people starting out in his workplace.
My reaction was
Then my inner little kid piped up with, “Why wasn’t he that way with me? What was wrong with me?” I’m chronologically an adult, so I can mostly handle this dissonance. Mostly.
But your daughter has enough mixed feelings to process as it is, maybe?
As always, I send my admiration for your grace under fire.
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This is another WTF? moment, but also an "I have boundaries" moment:
Ex had a job which involved specialized knowledge of a particular historical period. Today I got a slightly panicked email from his former boss (bear in mind that ex had been on medical and disability leaves for almost three years before he died). According to former boss, about a year ago he was approached by a someone who had an unusual (and potentially quite valuable) family heirloom from that era and wanted to know if it had any historical significance. They loaned the heirloom to former boss, who (unwisely) gave it to ex to get his opinion. Now they want their heirloom back, but ex never returned great-great-great grandpa's object to his boss. Boss and colleagues have turned ex's office inside out - found lots of hoarded clothes and shoes (see above) but no sign of this valuable antique. The family is freaking out (understandably) because they entrusted their heirloom to ex's former boss and it disappeared.
Former boss wants to know if I have it, could I check with Kid about whether she knows where it is, can I help him find it, it's urgent.
I am absolutely sure that Kid does not have it. I have no idea what ex did with it, but if he ascertained that it was valuable, he may have sold it.
I told former boss as politely as possible that this is not my problem. I recommended he check eBay. I also passed on contact details of ex's girlfriend (who hasn't been seen since he died) as the person who is most likely in possession of all his stuff. I have none of ex's stuff and do not want to acquire any. This is a mess of ex's that I am not interested in cleaning up. I'll clean up his messes insofar as it is in Kid's best interests for me to do so, but when it comes to other messes - I am done.
Ex had a job which involved specialized knowledge of a particular historical period. Today I got a slightly panicked email from his former boss (bear in mind that ex had been on medical and disability leaves for almost three years before he died). According to former boss, about a year ago he was approached by a someone who had an unusual (and potentially quite valuable) family heirloom from that era and wanted to know if it had any historical significance. They loaned the heirloom to former boss, who (unwisely) gave it to ex to get his opinion. Now they want their heirloom back, but ex never returned great-great-great grandpa's object to his boss. Boss and colleagues have turned ex's office inside out - found lots of hoarded clothes and shoes (see above) but no sign of this valuable antique. The family is freaking out (understandably) because they entrusted their heirloom to ex's former boss and it disappeared.
Former boss wants to know if I have it, could I check with Kid about whether she knows where it is, can I help him find it, it's urgent.
I am absolutely sure that Kid does not have it. I have no idea what ex did with it, but if he ascertained that it was valuable, he may have sold it.
I told former boss as politely as possible that this is not my problem. I recommended he check eBay. I also passed on contact details of ex's girlfriend (who hasn't been seen since he died) as the person who is most likely in possession of all his stuff. I have none of ex's stuff and do not want to acquire any. This is a mess of ex's that I am not interested in cleaning up. I'll clean up his messes insofar as it is in Kid's best interests for me to do so, but when it comes to other messes - I am done.
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Sad stories from today Sasha.
I always see addiction as some kind of psychological tsunami. It sweeps so much away: the physical stuff as well as the non tangibles and everything all the elements that sustain decent relationships.
I read what you write and then read something from a poster who is just entering a relationship with an alcoholic. Perhaps we should have relationship eduction like we have drivers education but still so often it is impossible to tell what will happen in 25 years.
I always see addiction as some kind of psychological tsunami. It sweeps so much away: the physical stuff as well as the non tangibles and everything all the elements that sustain decent relationships.
I read what you write and then read something from a poster who is just entering a relationship with an alcoholic. Perhaps we should have relationship eduction like we have drivers education but still so often it is impossible to tell what will happen in 25 years.
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Ebay is one option. Pawn shops another. Frankly this is Boss's mess. Ex had been on medical leave for two years, and Boss passes off something valuable to him? In what world would a thoughtful person do that. "Joe's been too sick to work for years, let's give him something valuable to take care of." And THEN not follow up a couple weeks later.
As for the memory book:
My Dad went to prison for OUI vehicular manslaughter. While visiting Mom, we went to the prison to visit Dad. Visitors were allowed on Saturdays and Sundays. I looked at the assembled people and asked Mom how many men were housed in the prison. It was about 400. There were about 40 visitors. Some of them were family units. Mom said, It's usually the same people, too.
Of 400 inmates, a handful had family and friends who showed up every week.
It's sad that the bad memories have overridden the good ones. I'm so sorry.
As for the memory book:
My Dad went to prison for OUI vehicular manslaughter. While visiting Mom, we went to the prison to visit Dad. Visitors were allowed on Saturdays and Sundays. I looked at the assembled people and asked Mom how many men were housed in the prison. It was about 400. There were about 40 visitors. Some of them were family units. Mom said, It's usually the same people, too.
Of 400 inmates, a handful had family and friends who showed up every week.
It's sad that the bad memories have overridden the good ones. I'm so sorry.
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WOW Sasha , thank you for posting this. I am very sorry for you and your daughter. My daughter and I were discussing this type of scenario just yesterday during a long drive. How it would be a mixed bag of grief and relief and how that would affect us. You put everything into words beautifully and honestly thank you. Much love coming your way
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Originally Posted by Sasha1972
This is a mess of ex's that I am not interested in cleaning up. I'll clean up his messes insofar as it is in Kid's best interests for me to do so, but when it comes to other messes - I am done.
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