I'm worried about my Wife.
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 994
How many of you here had your A come back and things work out?
My now exah came back 4 times...yes I was slow on the uptake but it takes a lot to work out that he really meant it when he said he didn't love me and I was just a convenient option. Hard to believe he meant it that our children got on his nerves and he wanted the older ones to move out. Hard to imagine he really preferred his fling to me but he did. I did the blame game..he's had a bad childhood, he was abandoned, he has mental health issues etc....all the stuff to justify his terrible behaviour but in the end I realise there was nothing to save because he did not love me. He still, to this day make cruel remarks about me to my sons and now he is sober. So sorry I am another one who bent over backwards to "save my marriage" until I worked out it wasn't a marriage and I was the only one who cared.
My now exah came back 4 times...yes I was slow on the uptake but it takes a lot to work out that he really meant it when he said he didn't love me and I was just a convenient option. Hard to believe he meant it that our children got on his nerves and he wanted the older ones to move out. Hard to imagine he really preferred his fling to me but he did. I did the blame game..he's had a bad childhood, he was abandoned, he has mental health issues etc....all the stuff to justify his terrible behaviour but in the end I realise there was nothing to save because he did not love me. He still, to this day make cruel remarks about me to my sons and now he is sober. So sorry I am another one who bent over backwards to "save my marriage" until I worked out it wasn't a marriage and I was the only one who cared.
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Join Date: May 2010
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Posts: 13,560
Bravo. Great, great post. Thank you so much for sharing. Please know everyone, in NO WAY am I being critical about any mental health issues. I have General Anxiety Disorder and have to take medication myself.
I am simply saying Bipolar and personality disorders are hard to treat, and the person with the disorder has to want it badly enough to be willing to do whatever it takes to change their behavior. For many it comes with taking medications that don't necessarily make you feel the way you want to feel. So, self medication comes into play, which is why it's very common for that to be co-occurring with this type of disorder.
This is a very good post by ebecker, I really appreciate your sharing.
I am simply saying Bipolar and personality disorders are hard to treat, and the person with the disorder has to want it badly enough to be willing to do whatever it takes to change their behavior. For many it comes with taking medications that don't necessarily make you feel the way you want to feel. So, self medication comes into play, which is why it's very common for that to be co-occurring with this type of disorder.
This is a very good post by ebecker, I really appreciate your sharing.
Originally Posted by ebecker1982 
Yeah...so am I.
AA in Social and Behavioral Sciences.
BA in Sociology, emphasis in Deviance, Minor in Psychology (UC Irvine Class of 2007)
Fellowship in Community Mental Health (Mental Health America - Los Angeles in Conjunction with the California State University at Dominguez Hills.
MBA from the University of Redlands School of Business.
Pretty decent credentials. And I still can't fix my addict. But top that off with this!
5 years of experience in the mental health field, split between working in a Community Mental Health Full Service Partnership (1 year) and working in Residential Dual Diagnosis Facilities (4 years) the latter of which required me to assist in administering medication to residents and to help them research and understand medications, side effects, etc.
I'm also Bipolar Type II and spent about 10 years in therapy so I know both sides of the couch and know what some of those medications do myself. Spent a lot of time in peer support groups.
Let me tell you, you can have all the education and even professional experience in the world. You can suffer from mental health issues and have gone to therapy yourself. You can share your knowledge and insights and lessons with your addicted loved one. It's still not going to fix your loved one. It may help you understand them on some level. But it won't fix them.
They have to fix themselves.
What you're talking about is a dual diagnosis situation. Where I worry a bit is that you're coming across right now with that idea that "if I just understand enough about what caused these problems, I can explain them." Great! You've explained them. I don't mean that as a personal dig at all. But ask yourself...now that you've explained them....has it made your relationship with your wife any better? Has it brought her any closer to sobriety? Has it improved her relationship with her children? Has it brought her any closer to coming home? Has it rid her of the attachment she formed with her affair partner?
These are serious questions.
I get it. I'm having a hard time of letting go of some things myself right now, chief among them anger. When she talked to me about how she experiences symptoms that essentially sound like Dissociative Identity Disorder, I became an absolute student of the disorder, tried to learn everything, understand everything, urged her to get into DBT or CBT......
The reality is until SHE decides to get better, all your knowledge, all your explanations, all your efforts....are very likely to fall on deaf ears.
And damn. I hope I'm wrong. Because I do believe you love this woman, I do believe your intentions are absolutely good and that you want what's best for yourself, your kids and your wife. But I'm afraid you're going to bang your head against the wall and get occasional small progress, occasional no progress, and occasional steps back.
But I've seen it too many times and now I'm living through it myself. This process you're going through? Somewhat different scenario, but I went down the same rabbit hole looking for answers. I needed to. And maybe you need to. But it might not work. And that's okay. Just please...be honest with yourself. And talk some of this out with a connection (maybe a sponsor?) from AlAnon if you have developed that sort of relationship with anyone.
In NarAnon, there's a man we call "f---in' Richard" and he wears it as a badge of honor because he drops knowledge bits and we just go "damn, f---in' Richard." I've only been going a short time and I already know. But there's two bits he drops.
1.) Addiction is the only disease where the only real cure is more pain. (It's that "hitting bottom" idea. As bad as things are, she might not yet. She might need more pain before she truly sees what she's doing to her family and to herself.)
2.) Trying to "fix" the addict is like pulling 648 levers. You pull all 648 of them, and you find out that all you've accomplished is that you wore out your arms. Or your brain. Or your heart. Whatever the case may be. Ultimately only the addict knows which levers to pull and in which order, and they won't realize they know that answer until they truly seek recovery and work their steps toward health (12 step meetings would call these 12 steps, other forms of meetings would have other definitions.)
I get it. A thousand times. I get it. And you're going to go through your process. Just remember the folks here have all been there, either as friends and family of an addict or as addicts themselves. And in some cases as both! This woman in my NarAnon meeting on Wednesday night referred to those folks as "Double Winners." Go through your process. We're here for you. And while I know this isn't strictly 12 step, there's one thing from that I can close with that I think is appropriate for all forms of support: keep coming back.
-Eric
AA in Social and Behavioral Sciences.
BA in Sociology, emphasis in Deviance, Minor in Psychology (UC Irvine Class of 2007)
Fellowship in Community Mental Health (Mental Health America - Los Angeles in Conjunction with the California State University at Dominguez Hills.
MBA from the University of Redlands School of Business.
Pretty decent credentials. And I still can't fix my addict. But top that off with this!
5 years of experience in the mental health field, split between working in a Community Mental Health Full Service Partnership (1 year) and working in Residential Dual Diagnosis Facilities (4 years) the latter of which required me to assist in administering medication to residents and to help them research and understand medications, side effects, etc.
I'm also Bipolar Type II and spent about 10 years in therapy so I know both sides of the couch and know what some of those medications do myself. Spent a lot of time in peer support groups.
Let me tell you, you can have all the education and even professional experience in the world. You can suffer from mental health issues and have gone to therapy yourself. You can share your knowledge and insights and lessons with your addicted loved one. It's still not going to fix your loved one. It may help you understand them on some level. But it won't fix them.
They have to fix themselves.
What you're talking about is a dual diagnosis situation. Where I worry a bit is that you're coming across right now with that idea that "if I just understand enough about what caused these problems, I can explain them." Great! You've explained them. I don't mean that as a personal dig at all. But ask yourself...now that you've explained them....has it made your relationship with your wife any better? Has it brought her any closer to sobriety? Has it improved her relationship with her children? Has it brought her any closer to coming home? Has it rid her of the attachment she formed with her affair partner?
These are serious questions.
I get it. I'm having a hard time of letting go of some things myself right now, chief among them anger. When she talked to me about how she experiences symptoms that essentially sound like Dissociative Identity Disorder, I became an absolute student of the disorder, tried to learn everything, understand everything, urged her to get into DBT or CBT......
The reality is until SHE decides to get better, all your knowledge, all your explanations, all your efforts....are very likely to fall on deaf ears.
And damn. I hope I'm wrong. Because I do believe you love this woman, I do believe your intentions are absolutely good and that you want what's best for yourself, your kids and your wife. But I'm afraid you're going to bang your head against the wall and get occasional small progress, occasional no progress, and occasional steps back.
But I've seen it too many times and now I'm living through it myself. This process you're going through? Somewhat different scenario, but I went down the same rabbit hole looking for answers. I needed to. And maybe you need to. But it might not work. And that's okay. Just please...be honest with yourself. And talk some of this out with a connection (maybe a sponsor?) from AlAnon if you have developed that sort of relationship with anyone.
In NarAnon, there's a man we call "f---in' Richard" and he wears it as a badge of honor because he drops knowledge bits and we just go "damn, f---in' Richard." I've only been going a short time and I already know. But there's two bits he drops.
1.) Addiction is the only disease where the only real cure is more pain. (It's that "hitting bottom" idea. As bad as things are, she might not yet. She might need more pain before she truly sees what she's doing to her family and to herself.)
2.) Trying to "fix" the addict is like pulling 648 levers. You pull all 648 of them, and you find out that all you've accomplished is that you wore out your arms. Or your brain. Or your heart. Whatever the case may be. Ultimately only the addict knows which levers to pull and in which order, and they won't realize they know that answer until they truly seek recovery and work their steps toward health (12 step meetings would call these 12 steps, other forms of meetings would have other definitions.)
I get it. A thousand times. I get it. And you're going to go through your process. Just remember the folks here have all been there, either as friends and family of an addict or as addicts themselves. And in some cases as both! This woman in my NarAnon meeting on Wednesday night referred to those folks as "Double Winners." Go through your process. We're here for you. And while I know this isn't strictly 12 step, there's one thing from that I can close with that I think is appropriate for all forms of support: keep coming back.
-Eric
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Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 41
Haven't seen a post from OP since before the weekend. Thought I would bump the thread and also encourage OP to check in. I know sometimes the advice you get isn't always easy (believe me, you should hear some of the takes I'm getting from friends and strangers alike about my loved one, including a lecture from my mother this morning,) but sometimes it's part of that gut check that we need.
Hope it was a good weekend. Please check in and let us know how you are doing.
-Eric
Hope it was a good weekend. Please check in and let us know how you are doing.
-Eric
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
I hope this weekend gave you a bit of a chance to catch your feet, BRM05. Hard stuff. I just want to say that it sounds like you're an awesome dad; I hope, also, that through it all you remember that, because remembering it as we work through issues like this can get so hard to do. My AXH is an abusive alcoholic, not bi-polar, so the windup was a little different, but the feelings I was left to deal with towards the end of our relationship were similar. I was so confused about how he could be completely different *now* than he had been earlier in our relationship, and spent a lot of time searching for an explanation of why and if it could be changed. A lot of that centered - and still centers - on his (non)approach to parenting our DS.
It's good to research and get as much information as needed - it's what I do when facing changes and decisions; it's important, though, to make sure it doesn't become a reason to put off action. I'm not saying that's what I think you're doing, but it's what I did. It can be so much easier to research (cerebral) than to deal with the day-to-day stuff (emotions).
I also just wanted to point out that I took Hopeful's post a tiny bit different that I think you did.
Researching about bipolar symptoms, medications, treatments, etc. is different than reaching out for information about being a partner of someone who's bipolar, what life for the family members can look like, coping strategies for family, etc. Just pointing out another avenue of research (and I get how that might sound after the warning about research.)
Wishing you continued strength.
It's good to research and get as much information as needed - it's what I do when facing changes and decisions; it's important, though, to make sure it doesn't become a reason to put off action. I'm not saying that's what I think you're doing, but it's what I did. It can be so much easier to research (cerebral) than to deal with the day-to-day stuff (emotions).
I also just wanted to point out that I took Hopeful's post a tiny bit different that I think you did.
Originally Posted by hopeful4
I am not being a smarty pants here, but how educated are you on life with someone who is Bipolar?
Wishing you continued strength.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 44
I'm going for the big divorce. I'm subpoenaing the affair partner and all the imessages and icloud information. She's going to have to sit there and face what she has done and pay the consequences. I'm not taking it easy on her. Being kind and forgiving has gotten me nothing. I'm taking the other road.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,965
Originally Posted by BRM05
I'm going for the big divorce. I'm subpoenaing the affair partner and all the imessages and icloud information. She's going to have to sit there and face what she has done and pay the consequences. I'm not taking it easy on her. Being kind and forgiving has gotten me nothing. I'm taking the other road.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Wishing you strength, BRM05. It's not an easy decision to make and even when it's the right one, it still hurts. Through all the paperwork and proceedings, keeping in mind what you think will be best for your kids will help.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
I was thinking about my parents' divorce and also my divorce.
I wouldn't want to know the details of my parents' divorce until I was an adult or at least a teen - or maybe ever. I'm sure I don't know the half of it and they are both deceased now.
My own divorce had some really bad behavior at the root of it and I wouldn't want that to be part of public record - as is the case once it's filed. We managed to divorce fairly amicably without a court fight and without publicly disclosing our dirty laundry (for the most part. Some of it was unavoidable as it was financial.)
I'm sure there is a way to make certain details of the divorce private - and to have a bit of a gag order...I don't think little kids need to know a whole lot about alcoholism and adultery.
That's just me. If one of my parents bad-mouthed the other (they never did) then I would feel really conflicted.
I wouldn't want to know the details of my parents' divorce until I was an adult or at least a teen - or maybe ever. I'm sure I don't know the half of it and they are both deceased now.
My own divorce had some really bad behavior at the root of it and I wouldn't want that to be part of public record - as is the case once it's filed. We managed to divorce fairly amicably without a court fight and without publicly disclosing our dirty laundry (for the most part. Some of it was unavoidable as it was financial.)
I'm sure there is a way to make certain details of the divorce private - and to have a bit of a gag order...I don't think little kids need to know a whole lot about alcoholism and adultery.
That's just me. If one of my parents bad-mouthed the other (they never did) then I would feel really conflicted.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,714
Originally Posted by BRM05
I'm going for the big divorce. I'm subpoenaing the affair partner and all the imessages and icloud information. She's going to have to sit there and face what she has done and pay the consequences. I'm not taking it easy on her. Being kind and forgiving has gotten me nothing. I'm taking the other road.
For all the "wrongs" there must have been some love shared between you at some point. She is still the Mother of your children when all is said and done.
You will get divorced regardless, you will have to have some relationship with her for the rest of your life, since you have children.
Just a week ago you said this:
Originally Posted by BRM05
I don't want a nasty divorce. If it comes to that I'd like to be as kind and civil as possible. Trust me, deep down I'd like for her to hurt but the part of me that wants that is not who I am. Its just revenge and that will bring nothing but pain to everyone involved including my children. If what I know is true, shes already ashamed and guilty enough as it is. Even with a civil divorce or a divorce settlement she is going to have to pay child support and will only see the kids every other weekend while i supervise the visit. Her life is already going to be difficult from here on out and I'm trying not to make it any worse.
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Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by BRM05
I'm going for the big divorce. I'm subpoenaing the affair partner and all the imessages and icloud information. She's going to have to sit there and face what she has done and pay the consequences. I'm not taking it easy on her. Being kind and forgiving has gotten me nothing. I'm taking the other road.
On the one hand, I think your eyes are wide open and you're awake.
That's good.
I think you are, at long last, mad as hell.
That's also good. You need to be. Hell, I'm mad as hell right now, too.
Just remember, as you go through this process, that as you make decisions, there are going to be actions you take that you're not going to be able to take back. Fortunately divorce plays out over time. I'm hoping that you're consulting with an attorney and taking their advice through the process.
There is a part of me, in my own case, that wants to absolutely ruin my loved one for all the pain I'm feeling. And there's another part of me that wants to message her and apologize (apologize for what? For letting her hurt me and then drawing a line? "I'm sorry I set a boundary, please, walk all over me some more!") Neither one is healthy.....which is why I'm just detaching for now. Because like I said to a friend of mine last night, "I have all these good things around me, and for some reason, deep down......I want the chaos. And that's absolutely insane. I need to stop that."
Maybe "not going easy" is the right way to do it. Just make sure that however you handle it, you also keep your dignity intact. And don't be surprised if your emotions swing throughout the process.
Regardless of what you ultimately decide to do, I wish you peace. You deserve that much.
Keep coming back.
-Eric
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 583
No one really wins, except the kids will have a healthier place to grow up.
My largest fear was my 8 year old daughter being molested by a friend of my passed out ex. My next fear was hearing sirens while she was gone with the kids.
How do you (call the cops, divorce, etc.) when you made that promise to her... The reality is I didn't make that promise to addiction, I made it to her. IF she was sober which I waited and waited over years through rehab after rehab. .
Seek council and document.
AG
My largest fear was my 8 year old daughter being molested by a friend of my passed out ex. My next fear was hearing sirens while she was gone with the kids.
How do you (call the cops, divorce, etc.) when you made that promise to her... The reality is I didn't make that promise to addiction, I made it to her. IF she was sober which I waited and waited over years through rehab after rehab. .
Seek council and document.
AG
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 151
I say this as a professional who is involved in the "divorce industry."
Colonel Jessup didn't suddenly "reform" or become contrite when confronted by Lt. Kaffee over the "code red." (reference to "A Few Good Men."). Jessup had his view of the world; Lt. Kaffee had his. Never the 'twain shall meet.
If you're looking at getting some sort of "satisfaction" through confronting your spouse with her affair, think again.
There is nothing wrong with using "leverage" to get the best result for you and the kids in the divorce process.
BUT, if you're getting divorced in a medium to large city, the fact one spouse had an affair is everyday routine stuff. What really matters is whether the cheating spouse sucked an inordinate amount of money from the marriage in the conduct of the affair - and that such financial drain has to be compensated for to the non-cheating spouse.
Speaking from the perspective of being divorced -- I never, ever felt bad about myself for taking the high road.
But, when I didn't stick to the high road -- when I was ruled by anger -- I ALWAYS regretted it.
I know it's a cliche, but divorce is really BUSINESS - it ain't personal.
Colonel Jessup didn't suddenly "reform" or become contrite when confronted by Lt. Kaffee over the "code red." (reference to "A Few Good Men."). Jessup had his view of the world; Lt. Kaffee had his. Never the 'twain shall meet.
If you're looking at getting some sort of "satisfaction" through confronting your spouse with her affair, think again.
There is nothing wrong with using "leverage" to get the best result for you and the kids in the divorce process.
BUT, if you're getting divorced in a medium to large city, the fact one spouse had an affair is everyday routine stuff. What really matters is whether the cheating spouse sucked an inordinate amount of money from the marriage in the conduct of the affair - and that such financial drain has to be compensated for to the non-cheating spouse.
Speaking from the perspective of being divorced -- I never, ever felt bad about myself for taking the high road.
But, when I didn't stick to the high road -- when I was ruled by anger -- I ALWAYS regretted it.
I know it's a cliche, but divorce is really BUSINESS - it ain't personal.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Wow. This is so true.
Originally Posted by MCESaint
I say this as a professional who is involved in the "divorce industry."
Colonel Jessup didn't suddenly "reform" or become contrite when confronted by Lt. Kaffee over the "code red." (reference to "A Few Good Men."). Jessup had his view of the world; Lt. Kaffee had his. Never the 'twain shall meet.
If you're looking at getting some sort of "satisfaction" through confronting your spouse with her affair, think again.
There is nothing wrong with using "leverage" to get the best result for you and the kids in the divorce process.
BUT, if you're getting divorced in a medium to large city, the fact one spouse had an affair is everyday routine stuff. What really matters is whether the cheating spouse sucked an inordinate amount of money from the marriage in the conduct of the affair - and that such financial drain has to be compensated for to the non-cheating spouse.
Speaking from the perspective of being divorced -- I never, ever felt bad about myself for taking the high road.
But, when I didn't stick to the high road -- when I was ruled by anger -- I ALWAYS regretted it.
I know it's a cliche, but divorce is really BUSINESS - it ain't personal.
Colonel Jessup didn't suddenly "reform" or become contrite when confronted by Lt. Kaffee over the "code red." (reference to "A Few Good Men."). Jessup had his view of the world; Lt. Kaffee had his. Never the 'twain shall meet.
If you're looking at getting some sort of "satisfaction" through confronting your spouse with her affair, think again.
There is nothing wrong with using "leverage" to get the best result for you and the kids in the divorce process.
BUT, if you're getting divorced in a medium to large city, the fact one spouse had an affair is everyday routine stuff. What really matters is whether the cheating spouse sucked an inordinate amount of money from the marriage in the conduct of the affair - and that such financial drain has to be compensated for to the non-cheating spouse.
Speaking from the perspective of being divorced -- I never, ever felt bad about myself for taking the high road.
But, when I didn't stick to the high road -- when I was ruled by anger -- I ALWAYS regretted it.
I know it's a cliche, but divorce is really BUSINESS - it ain't personal.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 44
So an update:
Amy did not come home. She has gotten her own place and has since been non communicative about anything other than the kids and even that has not improved since I last posted. I hired a PI a couple weeks ago because I suspected she was drinking again and she is. I'm filing restraining orders for the children and getting sole custody of the kids. She still says she hates me and I'm the reason she drinks. We all know that is ********. I have since started dating and I met a nice girl who treats me very well and most importantly treats my children very well. Better with the children than Amy ever was. It's heartbreaking to be honest. The worst part is that as good as my wonderful girlfriend is, I still miss Amy terribly. I miss the hard work. I know it's crazy to say that. I'm still in therapy and doing well. Look forward to hearing your responses.
Ben
Amy did not come home. She has gotten her own place and has since been non communicative about anything other than the kids and even that has not improved since I last posted. I hired a PI a couple weeks ago because I suspected she was drinking again and she is. I'm filing restraining orders for the children and getting sole custody of the kids. She still says she hates me and I'm the reason she drinks. We all know that is ********. I have since started dating and I met a nice girl who treats me very well and most importantly treats my children very well. Better with the children than Amy ever was. It's heartbreaking to be honest. The worst part is that as good as my wonderful girlfriend is, I still miss Amy terribly. I miss the hard work. I know it's crazy to say that. I'm still in therapy and doing well. Look forward to hearing your responses.
Ben
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
Ben, I say this very gently: Is it really her you miss or is it the idea of what could have been? Sometimes we project things onto people that just aren't real. We see them the way they could have been or who we would like them to be, when that simply isn't the reality of who they actually are. I've made that mistake before. It's a slow and painful realization to have to accept, I know. Cherish the new opportunity you've been given.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,714
You miss the hard work? Were you so used to being on the roller coaster ride that coming back down to some kind of "normal" life seems bland in comparison? If so, that is something to work on. There is a middle ground there of a non-boring life that doesn't have to involve a dysfunctional relationship.
I know admitting that you have a wonderful girlfriend but still miss your ex is tough, but honest. How does that affect your current relationship? Can you separate those two things? If not then perhaps you should be rethinking being in a relationship at all. It's not fair to your girlfriend.
Good for you for hiring the PI and finding out about the continued drinking, which enables you to protect your children.
I know admitting that you have a wonderful girlfriend but still miss your ex is tough, but honest. How does that affect your current relationship? Can you separate those two things? If not then perhaps you should be rethinking being in a relationship at all. It's not fair to your girlfriend.
Good for you for hiring the PI and finding out about the continued drinking, which enables you to protect your children.
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