High functioning alcoholic...anyone married to one?
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Originally Posted by Clover71 
Not an excuse - it's just more tangible to the mind than subtle abuse and drunkedness that some display.
To my mind emotional abuse is tangible.
Please know that when I say "you" I don't mean you specifically Clover, just in general.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
Seems to me that abuse is abuse.
To my mind emotional abuse is tangible.
Please know that when I say "you" I don't mean you specifically Clover, just in general.
To my mind emotional abuse is tangible.
Please know that when I say "you" I don't mean you specifically Clover, just in general.
It reminds me of a conversation I had with my friend about a few things. I was telling her how if the kids dump stuff on the dining room table or the kitchen counter, he would put it on my desk in my space. We only had one hook on the bathroom door and he used it for his stuff. Sometimes I'd throw my tank top on the doorknob before I hopped in the shower. When he got home he would take it off and throw it on the floor. That kind of stuff at the time seemed rude and annoying, but I now realize how disrespectful it was to me.
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Clover71.....yes, that stuff sounds very hostile and just mean....
Just as bad as a "slap in the face".....
But, I know what people are saying.....If you told somebody that he "slapped me in the face"...they would, likely be horrified to hear that....
But if you told them that "He threw my tank top on the floor"....they would, likely, miss the symbolism....and, not understand that it is also like a stab in the heart.....especially, from someone who is supposed to love and cherish you....
They wouldn't get the whole context.....
Just as bad as a "slap in the face".....
But, I know what people are saying.....If you told somebody that he "slapped me in the face"...they would, likely be horrified to hear that....
But if you told them that "He threw my tank top on the floor"....they would, likely, miss the symbolism....and, not understand that it is also like a stab in the heart.....especially, from someone who is supposed to love and cherish you....
They wouldn't get the whole context.....
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No, I absolutely agree with you, one is not less or more.
What mean things to do. I completely get what you are saying. That is so petty and disrespectful.
When you would confront him about that kind of stuff (assuming you did initially) what was his come-back?
What mean things to do. I completely get what you are saying. That is so petty and disrespectful.
When you would confront him about that kind of stuff (assuming you did initially) what was his come-back?
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I agree with some of the other posts. High functioning is just a stage. XAH was like that. Lived like that for 10-15 years. It was an awful life for the kids & I but he had a job, he came home every night, there was no violence. The falling down, unemployed & abusive drunk eventually showed up. It came hard & fast.
We are divorced & the kids are in therapy. It was easier for me to convince myself I had to leave him because of the abuse. But here I am one year out and I see there was the emotional abuse all that time.
We are divorced & the kids are in therapy. It was easier for me to convince myself I had to leave him because of the abuse. But here I am one year out and I see there was the emotional abuse all that time.
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Me too. Been married to him for 8 years, together almost 12. I knew he was an alcoholic but I married him anyway, thinking in my young delusional mind that he would "settle down" as he got older. Maybe he's settled some in the amount he drinks but the drinking is still an every weekend thing, it's like he never outgrew the college binge drinking on Fri/Sat nights.
Everyone on here says it's a progressive thing and I have no doubt it is for most alcoholics. My AH literally just told me today that he has no doubt he's not physically addicted to it and can stop anytime he wants to, he just "loves the taste of beer and enjoys drinking". Quack, quack, quack. Luckily reading on here and going to meetings has taught me to not get my hopes up as much when he starts talking about cutting back his drinking and to focus on the things I can control, which is how I respond to it and setting boundaries such as going to my room of the house when I don't feel like watching him down another cold one.
I think like the others were saying, while they are really harming themselves, they are also doing a great damage to their relationships with others in that when drinking they simple are emotionally unavailable or unable to be present with others around them. My AH often forgets things I've told him when he's been drinking and when I remind him that I told him he acts like he remembers but I know he really doesn't. Prayers and peace to you!
Everyone on here says it's a progressive thing and I have no doubt it is for most alcoholics. My AH literally just told me today that he has no doubt he's not physically addicted to it and can stop anytime he wants to, he just "loves the taste of beer and enjoys drinking". Quack, quack, quack. Luckily reading on here and going to meetings has taught me to not get my hopes up as much when he starts talking about cutting back his drinking and to focus on the things I can control, which is how I respond to it and setting boundaries such as going to my room of the house when I don't feel like watching him down another cold one.
I think like the others were saying, while they are really harming themselves, they are also doing a great damage to their relationships with others in that when drinking they simple are emotionally unavailable or unable to be present with others around them. My AH often forgets things I've told him when he's been drinking and when I remind him that I told him he acts like he remembers but I know he really doesn't. Prayers and peace to you!
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Here's a perspective from the inside. I was that A, held down a job, great family relationships because I live on my own so they didn't see me. If I did drink too much in company I was a 'nice' drunk.
All this, but there was no doubt in my mind about where I was headed and what it was doing to my emotional and physical health. That was why I decided to stop drinking completely (having gone through years of abstinence, moderation, you name it, but none lasted).
I don't know what made me the lucky one in that I was able to act on the knowledge that I'd reached a decision point, but it took a co-operative doctor, lots of reading and SR to make it stick.
I wish I could say your AH will reach that point too. Maybe if he can comprehend that he's hurting his family? You have the right to point out the damage to him, but he'll have to make the decision.
All this, but there was no doubt in my mind about where I was headed and what it was doing to my emotional and physical health. That was why I decided to stop drinking completely (having gone through years of abstinence, moderation, you name it, but none lasted).
I don't know what made me the lucky one in that I was able to act on the knowledge that I'd reached a decision point, but it took a co-operative doctor, lots of reading and SR to make it stick.
I wish I could say your AH will reach that point too. Maybe if he can comprehend that he's hurting his family? You have the right to point out the damage to him, but he'll have to make the decision.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Clover71.....yes, that stuff sounds very hostile and just mean....
Just as bad as a "slap in the face".....
But, I know what people are saying.....If you told somebody that he "slapped me in the face"...they would, likely be horrified to hear that....
But if you told them that "He threw my tank top on the floor"....they would, likely, miss the symbolism....and, not understand that it is also like a stab in the heart.....especially, from someone who is supposed to love and cherish you....
They wouldn't get the whole context.....
Just as bad as a "slap in the face".....
But, I know what people are saying.....If you told somebody that he "slapped me in the face"...they would, likely be horrified to hear that....
But if you told them that "He threw my tank top on the floor"....they would, likely, miss the symbolism....and, not understand that it is also like a stab in the heart.....especially, from someone who is supposed to love and cherish you....
They wouldn't get the whole context.....
This exactly! 💯
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Originally Posted by Wamama48
I didnt know that! I thought it was a type of alcoholic. Its a stage of alcoholism? Well thats not good.
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I don't know how I could go this long and just see it as a wife/husband issue when all along my children have been rowing the same boat as me.
Yup.
My Mom always made it seem like she was the only person bearing the brunt of my Dad's alcoholism, she was a super-high functioning co-dependent! Had her own job, had a huge social circle, volunteered, was on committees. Unreal.
The term high-functioning to me has always meant: Master of the Sneaky, Superior Faker, Serial Blamer, False Front on all Fronts, Super Sad Person Trapped in Denial!!
Nothing gets in the way of their drinking. So if they need to keep a job and the appearance of an intact and "happy" family then that's what they'll do. If they need to sober up for a week or two and pretend to stick to the budget, that's what they'll do. If they need to blame their "unsupportive" spouse and pick fights and make it all about someone else, then that's what they'll do. And the drink goes on.
Children of As learn some really crippling stuff (all under the false front of the intact "happy" family). Read about Adult Children of Alcoholics, I'm pretty sure it's not the future any parent wants for their kid. Whether you stay or go, I hope you find a way to start talking to your kids about their reality. Cuz if you think you are keeping up appearances I can tell you point blank: you're not. And their efforts to make sense of the elephant in the living room, sometimes without having the vocabulary or any idea of what "addiction" even is, are draining them just as much. The shame, the shame of pretending, and feeling you are being lied to, but yet these are the adults you have to trust with your life, it's really awful. Warping.
But who has the courage to change? That radical change we wish of the A we can actually have for ourselves. Which when you think about it is pretty awesome and liberating. We look at the A and say "OMG, it's so obvious, how can they not see that they need to change!!??" When all we really need to do is look at ourselves in the mirror and say the exact same thing! Then we see the power to change is in OUR hands.
This statement has always helped me in tough times: The past is gone, I am free in this moment.
Peace,
B.
Yup.
My Mom always made it seem like she was the only person bearing the brunt of my Dad's alcoholism, she was a super-high functioning co-dependent! Had her own job, had a huge social circle, volunteered, was on committees. Unreal.
The term high-functioning to me has always meant: Master of the Sneaky, Superior Faker, Serial Blamer, False Front on all Fronts, Super Sad Person Trapped in Denial!!
Nothing gets in the way of their drinking. So if they need to keep a job and the appearance of an intact and "happy" family then that's what they'll do. If they need to sober up for a week or two and pretend to stick to the budget, that's what they'll do. If they need to blame their "unsupportive" spouse and pick fights and make it all about someone else, then that's what they'll do. And the drink goes on.
Children of As learn some really crippling stuff (all under the false front of the intact "happy" family). Read about Adult Children of Alcoholics, I'm pretty sure it's not the future any parent wants for their kid. Whether you stay or go, I hope you find a way to start talking to your kids about their reality. Cuz if you think you are keeping up appearances I can tell you point blank: you're not. And their efforts to make sense of the elephant in the living room, sometimes without having the vocabulary or any idea of what "addiction" even is, are draining them just as much. The shame, the shame of pretending, and feeling you are being lied to, but yet these are the adults you have to trust with your life, it's really awful. Warping.
But who has the courage to change? That radical change we wish of the A we can actually have for ourselves. Which when you think about it is pretty awesome and liberating. We look at the A and say "OMG, it's so obvious, how can they not see that they need to change!!??" When all we really need to do is look at ourselves in the mirror and say the exact same thing! Then we see the power to change is in OUR hands.
This statement has always helped me in tough times: The past is gone, I am free in this moment.
Peace,
B.
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Loneshewolf.....about your husband's "quack"......I actually believe that he is telling you his truth...that he enjoys drinking....When people are first drinking...it is not because it makes them feel bad...in that moment...to many people it really DOES feel good. It loosens the inhibitions, numbs their anxiety or any feelings that might be bothering them...all the problems are on the shelf and out of sight, for that time. this period can last for a long, long time..especially for a young and healthy person, in the beginning.....
The sticky wicket is, that, after a period of time...as the person's brain crosses over that line into physiological and psychological addiction....they no longer choose to drink to feel better...they NEED to drink to feel better...in fact, they need to drink just to feel "normal". The pleasure of drinking is gone, for the most part, and the person has to drink just to exist.....
At that point...the person is trapped by their need to drink....and, all of their efforts have to go into protecting their ability to still drink.....I think that becomes the arena where the spouse of loved ones throw up their hands and say...."I don't even know who he/her is, anymore!"
"First the man takes the drink...then, the drink takes the man"
The sticky wicket is, that, after a period of time...as the person's brain crosses over that line into physiological and psychological addiction....they no longer choose to drink to feel better...they NEED to drink to feel better...in fact, they need to drink just to feel "normal". The pleasure of drinking is gone, for the most part, and the person has to drink just to exist.....
At that point...the person is trapped by their need to drink....and, all of their efforts have to go into protecting their ability to still drink.....I think that becomes the arena where the spouse of loved ones throw up their hands and say...."I don't even know who he/her is, anymore!"
"First the man takes the drink...then, the drink takes the man"
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What dandy describes is exactly what happened to me over time. Decades.
I was very "high functioning" for most of my life, though I see in hindsight that
I wasted so much potential, time, and life on alcohol.
But I did well at work, earned multiple advanced degrees, didn't physically abuse anyone,
and did many things for other people, most especially my alcoholic mother,
so I felt I "handled" booze well and deserved to drink given all I did and managed to do.
But the downhill slope started in my mid forties, and I realized I would lose it all
if I didn't check myself and stop.
So, does that make me a "high-bottom high-functioning alcoholic"?
I think such labels don't matter and don't last.
It's just a way drinkers keep the drink flowing and rationalize it.
I was very "high functioning" for most of my life, though I see in hindsight that
I wasted so much potential, time, and life on alcohol.
But I did well at work, earned multiple advanced degrees, didn't physically abuse anyone,
and did many things for other people, most especially my alcoholic mother,
so I felt I "handled" booze well and deserved to drink given all I did and managed to do.
But the downhill slope started in my mid forties, and I realized I would lose it all
if I didn't check myself and stop.
So, does that make me a "high-bottom high-functioning alcoholic"?
I think such labels don't matter and don't last.
It's just a way drinkers keep the drink flowing and rationalize it.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
they no longer choose to drink to feel better...they NEED to drink to feel better...in fact, they need to drink just to feel "normal". The pleasure of drinking is gone, for the most part, and the person has to drink just to exist
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Dandy, thank you for your comments. I believe it's a quack in that it seems to me that he has crossed over to where he physically needs it but is just in denial, but I can also see where maybe it's a bit of both at this point and someday it may change to a purely physical need if he continues at this rate.
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Nothing very new to add here, just my own story, which is similar to lots of other people's stories.
My ex was high functioning for a long time - several advanced degrees, high-status professional job, he really did get interviewed on TV, and everyone who knew him thought he was great. Good-looking, charming, self-deprecating, progressive - what's not to love?
Now he's living with a meth addict he hooked up with in rehab (for whom he dumped his second wife), hasn't worked in almost two years, is facing criminal charges for things he did while drunk, has had his drivers' license suspended, owes at least $100 000 in consumer debt, has been the subject of four police calls and two child protection investigations, has gone from having his daughter live with him half the time to seeing her for 30 minutes under supervision once a week, has had at least one heart attack and is an ER frequent flyer for everything from shingles to vomiting blood, has been involuntarily confined to a psychiatric ward, and has alienated all his former friends. And he still insists that all of the above is someone else's fault.
This has all happened within two years. I get dizzy just typing it out, the speed with which things have visibly fallen apart. I can't quite believe it myself. Before he became obviously and visibly a train wreck, he was a behind-closed-doors train wreck, who looked great on the outside.
My daughter's counsellor (a psychologist) observed that a lot of long-term "high-functioning" addicts fall apart completely in their late 40s - the accumulated strain of years of keeping up appearances and "functioning" combines with pretty common midlife issues like realizing that your life is not going to be what you hoped it would be, and once they start to unravel, they just keep going faster and faster.
My ex was high functioning for a long time - several advanced degrees, high-status professional job, he really did get interviewed on TV, and everyone who knew him thought he was great. Good-looking, charming, self-deprecating, progressive - what's not to love?
Now he's living with a meth addict he hooked up with in rehab (for whom he dumped his second wife), hasn't worked in almost two years, is facing criminal charges for things he did while drunk, has had his drivers' license suspended, owes at least $100 000 in consumer debt, has been the subject of four police calls and two child protection investigations, has gone from having his daughter live with him half the time to seeing her for 30 minutes under supervision once a week, has had at least one heart attack and is an ER frequent flyer for everything from shingles to vomiting blood, has been involuntarily confined to a psychiatric ward, and has alienated all his former friends. And he still insists that all of the above is someone else's fault.
This has all happened within two years. I get dizzy just typing it out, the speed with which things have visibly fallen apart. I can't quite believe it myself. Before he became obviously and visibly a train wreck, he was a behind-closed-doors train wreck, who looked great on the outside.
My daughter's counsellor (a psychologist) observed that a lot of long-term "high-functioning" addicts fall apart completely in their late 40s - the accumulated strain of years of keeping up appearances and "functioning" combines with pretty common midlife issues like realizing that your life is not going to be what you hoped it would be, and once they start to unravel, they just keep going faster and faster.
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Ive been thinking about this all day! It never occured to me, and now that I know, for whatever reason things have fallen into place.
Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
One thing to remember: "High-functioning" is not a TYPE of alcoholism, it's a STAGE. This thing is progressive. While no one can give you an exact timeline, left untreated, it will get worse.
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I'm married to a HFA, highly successful at his job, traveled the world, a great provider for the family. To the outside world he is successful, charming, etc. Though I know alcohoism is progressive so maybe if he does not get a handle on it now, he will be further along and no longer 'functioning.' He does not 'function' in terms of relationships, never really has, I missed all the red flags when I was young and 'in love.' He could not maintain long term friendships. He gets on well with people but doesn't go deep, it is all superficial.
Makes me wonder am I really his friend or just a hostage.
Only I know the real man (or more than the outside world does). I know the demons he grapples with from his past, I know how he can drink himself into a stupor, lie and vomit on the floor, how his anger can boil up if antagonized, how he can drive while drunk, how he can smash furniture if he doesn't like what he hears. When he is sober he is kind and funny, a caring father and son and husband. It is like living with Jekyll and Hyde when he is drinking. The worst part was the manipulation. I took to writing things down and keeping a record of not just my feelings but what he would say, he would deny ever having said it. This is what crazy making is. Remember his forte is to negotiate multi-million dollar deals, (I didn't stand a chance but I am no longer so naive), My problem is I take people at face value, never assuming ulterior motives, boy how I have learned in this marriage.
I even took to recording him with my smart phone, to remind myself when I would talk myself out of taking it seriously or rationalizing his behavior. Now I see him much more clearly, the small boy, the lost man, the angry man, the selfish man, the kind man.
Makes me wonder am I really his friend or just a hostage.
Only I know the real man (or more than the outside world does). I know the demons he grapples with from his past, I know how he can drink himself into a stupor, lie and vomit on the floor, how his anger can boil up if antagonized, how he can drive while drunk, how he can smash furniture if he doesn't like what he hears. When he is sober he is kind and funny, a caring father and son and husband. It is like living with Jekyll and Hyde when he is drinking. The worst part was the manipulation. I took to writing things down and keeping a record of not just my feelings but what he would say, he would deny ever having said it. This is what crazy making is. Remember his forte is to negotiate multi-million dollar deals, (I didn't stand a chance but I am no longer so naive), My problem is I take people at face value, never assuming ulterior motives, boy how I have learned in this marriage.
I even took to recording him with my smart phone, to remind myself when I would talk myself out of taking it seriously or rationalizing his behavior. Now I see him much more clearly, the small boy, the lost man, the angry man, the selfish man, the kind man.
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Originally Posted by Givenup2018
I'm married to a HFA, highly successful at his job, traveled the world, a great provider for the family. To the outside world he is successful, charming, etc. Though I know alcohoism is progressive so maybe if he does not get a handle on it now, he will be further along and no longer 'functioning.' He does not 'function' in terms of relationships, never really has, I missed all the red flags when I was young and 'in love.' He could not maintain long term friendships. He gets on well with people but doesn't go deep, it is all superficial.
Makes me wonder am I really his friend or just a hostage.
Only I know the real man (or more than the outside world does). I know the demons he grapples with from his past, I know how he can drink himself into a stupor, lie and vomit on the floor, how his anger can boil up if antagonized, how he can drive while drunk, how he can smash furniture if he doesn't like what he hears. When he is sober he is kind and funny, a caring father and son and husband. It is like living with Jekyll and Hyde when he is drinking. The worst part was the manipulation. I took to writing things down and keeping a record of not just my feelings but what he would say, he would deny ever having said it. This is what crazy making is. Remember his forte is to negotiate multi-million dollar deals, (I didn't stand a chance but I am no longer so naive), My problem is I take people at face value, never assuming ulterior motives, boy how I have learned in this marriage.
I even took to recording him with my smart phone, to remind myself when I would talk myself out of taking it seriously or rationalizing his behavior. Now I see him much more clearly, the small boy, the lost man, the angry man, the selfish man, the kind man.
Makes me wonder am I really his friend or just a hostage.
Only I know the real man (or more than the outside world does). I know the demons he grapples with from his past, I know how he can drink himself into a stupor, lie and vomit on the floor, how his anger can boil up if antagonized, how he can drive while drunk, how he can smash furniture if he doesn't like what he hears. When he is sober he is kind and funny, a caring father and son and husband. It is like living with Jekyll and Hyde when he is drinking. The worst part was the manipulation. I took to writing things down and keeping a record of not just my feelings but what he would say, he would deny ever having said it. This is what crazy making is. Remember his forte is to negotiate multi-million dollar deals, (I didn't stand a chance but I am no longer so naive), My problem is I take people at face value, never assuming ulterior motives, boy how I have learned in this marriage.
I even took to recording him with my smart phone, to remind myself when I would talk myself out of taking it seriously or rationalizing his behavior. Now I see him much more clearly, the small boy, the lost man, the angry man, the selfish man, the kind man.
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