GoodguyJoel

Hardlessons...I thought I explained this further to clarify.

I have not come on here to offend anyone, and apologize if I have. I never meant it to be as such.

I wish we could all huddle together face to face and discuss, because I think you would see a different perspective of me. I may be inadequate regarding the material here, but I do try to be a good person. Much like text messaging, sometimes the emotion or real meaning is lost in translation, and can come off completely the wrong way. I don't know how many more times I can say I am not saying any of you are not experienced, or have not expereienced worse than I, or that SR folks are not just walking away from important relationships...I just meant this happens out in the world...and I don't understand it. I just tried to relate this idea to the situation where an addict is involved. If this still bothers you, please let me know if there is something specific I can do to address it. I am trying to clarify, and that still may not be good enough. I have read other stories of abuse and suffering on here, and I have in no way discounted those, even if that statement seems to do so. I am forthright telling you though that I do not. I wouldn't come on here to minimize the atrocities of others lives, especially when experiencing my own.

SmallButMighty

A few years ago when I was still trying to hold my failing marriage to AXH together, I posted here in frustration over his passive aggressive tendencies while white knuckling his "sobriety", I received a decent piece of advice I will cut and paste (in part) here:


........
You ever catch my Poop Throwing Monkeys at the Zoo story? Short end up front is this --

IF you find yourself in range of the crap other folks throw, and they are crap throwing folks . . . you are probably too close to them. Not saying that is something wrong with you, just if you do NOT want to be hit with crap from crap throwers, you may want to move out of their crap throwing range.

More professional folks call that "Detachment." I call it Distance = Safety.

Watch how far he throws his crap at you, and move out of range both Physically and Emotionally.

Then without having to deal with the crap, you can sort out what to better do with the rest of your life.

That good advice was thanks to Hammer, and applies to EVERYBODY.

I wish he was still around. He had important things to say.

GoodguyJoel

Trailmix, dandylion, and atalos

Thank you for your responses. All extremely important factors to me in my life, so I will deeply consider them (and before I get pounced on, I just want to say that some of you have said these things before, but I may not have been in the mental capacity at that stage to have truly heard it, but I will reread all of my threads again, and have been with the most recent one).

Also, littlesister...I am trying my best to come around to this idea. It isn't easily accepted... I didn't and don't look at her and see only the alcoholic...and this is my own struggle to work through.

GoodguyJoel

Small but mighty...great analogy. thank you.

Mango blast

Joel, thanks for posting. I'm glad you're here.

We each have our own path to walk, in our own way, in our own time.

Kudos for sticking around.

GoodguyJoel

I am seriously here to discuss a life altering event for me! I can't believe this would illicit such responses! If I need to redact the statement, then by all means, I do. Just because I am not as well equipped as some of you out there does not mean I am a troll. I am just struggling. Please do not make ridicule over my hardship! This is seriously the hardest situation I have ever experienced, and I feel like I am being demeaned into something less than all of you just because I don't respond the same ways you did, or are. Please appreciate we are all different and I am just trying to find my own way using the knowledge you are sharing.

If for some reason my use of this forum is not fitting to what it was intended, then please let me know of another forum that would be better suited for what I am experiencing...

Mango blast

Way to stand up for yourself, Joel!!!

And THAT is exactly what this forum is for.

SmallButMighty

Everyone that frequents this board is or was a raging codependent. We see you displaying every single codie trait. It's painful to see.

It's worse than watching someone play Russian Roulette...Not even kidding...At least they have a chance they wont take that bullet in the head... we know exactly what kind of mess your brain is going to be.

You ask for our thoughts and feelings on the matter and then balk at the advice. What is it you do want from us?

I know, that just like the drunk or the junkie, you wont put down your dope either until you are damn good and ready.. but in the mean time what is it you actually want from us?... If it is just a safe place to commiserate then fine, but when you ask for feedback ( and to your credit you do that) you are gonna get the straight up, painful truth from us.

I hope you stick around, I hope you read others people's stories on here, I hope you go to alanon, I hope you read Codependent No More, I hope you find the help you need to get healthy.

PuzzledHeart

Joel,

You wrote the words "Feeling Lost" and mentioned that you were in survival mode. There's a book called "Deep Survival" written by Laurence Gonzalez which describes the way the brain often goes into shock and denial when facing a life-threatening situation. The ones who survive manage to leave the denial behind (they are incredible stories - but I wouldn't recommend reading it on a boat or a plane). What you're going through is actually pretty normal.

What you wrote also reminded me of something that I wrote in this thread:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...e-into-me.html (Help - please talk sense into me)

The poster was describing her struggle with her disappointment as her AH relapsed for the fourth time. She also had a six-year-old son, and she was kicking herself for not seeing the signs earlier rather than later...

I've included my text below just in case you don't want to read through the whole thread...

***
This is going to sound crazy, but your experience reminds me of a solo hike I did once.

I was walking around for five hours and I got to a part of a trail that started making me feel uneasy. I couldn't point my finger on exactly why, because I had just past a trail marker, and the path looked pretty clear and it was in the general direction where I wanted to go.

So I kept on trudging ahead, and as I did so the ground started getting muddier. There seemed to be a lot more undergrowth. But every time I turned around I could see Stupid Trail Marker which assured me I was in the right place. And I was close enough to civilization so I could hear the cars whizzing by on a nearby road. And I was tired and of course that's when I ran out of water. So all I wanted to do was go home. So I kept moving forward. This went on for five minutes.

Well I once I saw that I was walking straight into the side of a cliff I knew I was on the wrong path. And the prospect of walking through the mud and the underbrush AGAIN was incredibly demoralizing. But what else could I do?

So of course I had to walk all the way back to Stupid Trail Marker. And when I got to Stupid Trail Marker (STM) I wasn't done, because now I had to re-orient myself and figure out the right direction. So I walked back past STM several feet and turned around again.

And three feet from Stupid Trail Marker was another marker that showed me that the trail had bent to the right as opposed to the left, the direction that I initially chose to go. Maybe I was too tired to see it. Maybe another tree had blocked it. I could have stopped right there and thought of reasons on why I was so stupid. I could have kicked myself repeatedly for not listening to my gut, but neither of those actions would have gotten me any closer to where I needed to go. I just needed to move forward.

When I look back, what I remember most was the internal conflict in my head when I couldn't decide if I was right or wrong. One part of me so desperately wanted to believe that I was going in the right direction because I had the clues (the STM and the sound of traffic). And I listened to that one part because the thought of doubling back was just utterly demoralizing. And this was just for five minutes of a six hour hike (OK actually ten because I went five minutes the wrong way then five minutes back)!

Your journey has been much much longer, so it's no surprise that you feel the way that you do. But doing the "Why did I take so long?" routine at this particular moment isn't going to get you any closer to your ultimate goal - a safe home for your boy and yourself.

tomsteve

and this forum is:
Open to all who love someone who is addicted to Alcohol, whether they have admitted a problem or not. Discuss coping tools, and learn basic recovery techniques for you, NOT the alcoholic.

dandylion

Joel....sharing you a little secret from the Venus side of things....
When women receive a major loss...especially of the male/female sort....there is a clarion call that goes out over the countryside.
All that hear that call...the friends of the same feather...they come quickly to the side of the wounded one. They surround her with all the love and attention that they have....they listen...endlessly...and validate all of her pain....they hold her under their wings, much like a mother hen will with her frightened chick...

Men...not so much. So often, men feel helpless in the face of tears and mourning. They have been taught to just suck it up....(not every one, of course, but in general, in our culture)....When they encounter a weakened or wounded , of their own, they take him bowling.

But, seriously, Joel...this is why I preach face to face human contact for you....do you have any friends l ike that? That you can spew anything and they will understand that it is beneficial for you to do so?
If not, then I think you need to fi nd some....a men's grieving group....or a men's support of some k ind....of course, you have your counselor (good).....and, alanon...or similar group---like Co-dependents Anonymous--
Talk to some of the grandmas at the senior living facilities...lol...they are very loving and nurturing...and they love to listen!

In many cultures, there are prescribed rituals for those who are bereaved (you are bereaved)....and I think that is so healthy. I wish we had more of them, here ....They all involved human contact and the support of the entire community.....

Mango blast

^^^^

I am a woman. I've never, ever EVER experienced that. It took me a long time to get to Alanon, domestic violence help shelters and other counseling and support groups. So glad I made it there and kept going back.

The women who've been in my life think I should do more for my husband... that he's such a wonderful person that I should stick it out and help him.... they don't know addictions and don't want to.

PuzzledHeart

This sounds like such a cliche, but I've received kindness from strangers. One evening, two months after the breakup, I found myself sobbing at the Scottish shore of the Atlantic, sinking into the kelp, dressed in only a sleeveless dress in the middle of October, because I wanted the cold to literally freeze my heart.

This poor woman saw me bolting out of the pub and walking towards the beach. I had only known her two weeks, but she knew something was wrong. And she sat there, freezing in the cold herself, while I sobbed and spilled my guts to her.

Gosh I wish I had another opportunity to thank her for what she did.

Is it OK for me to say that they should stuff it?

AnvilheadII

Why can't she just own up to her mistakes and work hard for us again?

because she doesn't WANT to.
because for her there is no US.
and who are you to list her MISTAKES.
and that she should own up to those mistakes that YOU feel she has made.

Why time to move on?
cuz it's over?
cuz this is life, things we think are permanent.....aren't. (look at the packers and aaron....).

cuz we all lose people.....we don't get to KEEP them, we are blessed to have known them....we don't chain them to the radiator.....unless we happen to be psychopaths.....

wishing for clarity

four threads, two of which have been closed, 547 replies.......

dandylion

PuzzledHeart....I vote, absolutely, that she (KeepingTheFaith) should tell them to stuff it (where the sun don't shine)........!

searching4shay

Joel, if she hadn't stayed with you this last time, where could she have stayed? She is in survival mode, which to her means survive to get the next drink. Staying with you was the path of least resistance at the moment.

This rehab guy is a means to that end, and if it's not him, she'll find another. Nothing is more important to her than that next drink - not you, not her mom, not her best friend, not rehab guy, and especially not herself.

You wonder why so many of us want to scream run. It's not because it's easy. It's not, and it will hurt like he**. It's because it gets more difficult. More complicated. Turn three years into 1/2 your life. Add a couple of kids. Add a house and everything that goes with it. A lot of us don't get this glimpse into the future. By the time things get to the point where something has to change we're 10, 20, 30+ years down the road you've just started on. As hard as it is now, it's just going to get more difficult. And until she wants to, if she ever does, she is going to continue getting exponentially worse.

I suppose an option would be to put your life on hold and see if she ever decides to make the changes she needs to make, but you could be waiting your entire life for that to happen. Love yourself more. Love yourself enough to know how you should be treated. Love yourself enough to know when to walk away even though it hurts.

HardLessons

Where do I locate this ignore button which has been mentioned several times?

Thanks

dandylion

HardLessons.............LOL....I have no idea...since I have never used it....
If I get too upset or I have nothing constructive (in my opinion) to offer, I just move on to another thread of someone that I might be able to help.....

SparkleKitty

HardLessons, if you click on a person's name, a menu should pop up. "Add ____ to your Ignore List" is the option at the bottom.

Bittersweetlove

I have read your threads but couldn’t stomach much past a page or two. Not to discount your pain as I and most here identify with the utter disaster loving someone that doesn’t love themselves creates. With that being said, like her you aren’t going to get better until YOU decide to. Nothing anyone says here or anywhere else is going to heal you from this experience. That’s a full on inside job.

For me walking away was and still is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. I hope for your sake you don’t wait until your sanity is in question to do so... you also kind of might already be there.

For the mere idea of doing so I’ll give you the cliff notes on likely the scenarios that could play out.

1) this rehab number whatever sticks she gets better she is recovery you are ecstaticly happy until she now in recovery sees how wildly unhealthy you are and focuses rightfully so on sobriety. You realize you haven’t put in the work on yourself since your focus has always been on her. You missed the forest despite the trees!

2) she never gets better but you insist on sticking it out in the white knight type fashion of “Divorce isn’t an option” ( side note: you aren’t technically married a luxury most wish for here and even if you were I doubt it would be a marriage that resembled anything with depth or sanity) she starts racking up more serious consequences both legally and physically that further breeds your codepency the bottom is supposedly reached several times over only to bottom out to levels that outreach your wildest imagination. STILL you get the wrong end of the stick by watching at best the end stage alcoholic and not the threatening version I mean the full on horrible way to go. Google end stage alcoholism and READ it those are seats you don’t want tickets to. THAT is truly traumatic.

Everyone gets frustrated here because you can still be saved but you won’t save yourself.