GoodguyJoel

I wont recap my story. I know it triggers many of you, and I know I have made monumental personal mistakes. This doesn't mean that I was enjoying the chaos, I just personally had huge feelings for my Aex.

I am sure as you all saw my story progress, it went from something as simple as...she left you in rehab. To left you for another man in rehab. To kicked out of said man's house due to drinking. To detox again and kicked out of parent's house. To staying with me again. To being intimate with the person who left you. To rehab again.

I am just a simple person. I wake up each day crying my eyes out trying to just have some semblance of knowing what her and I shared for years did mean something...something more than just a throw away thing. I may be in denial about where things truly are right now, but I am not in denial regarding ~3 years of mostly sobriety for her (of the total 4 1/2 years we were together). I have tried so many avenues, including SR, to just try to find my head-space to see things more clearly, and I am still left wondering what has happened.

I have never felt more knocked down, or confused, or fighting for something I believed in. I know all of the great folks on here have tried so hard to pound it in my head that I am not worthless, and that I have been dealing with advanced stages of alcoholism, but it seriously is hard to wrap my head around. I have mentioned before that I was always well grounded, and stable, but I am so far from that lately that I feel lost.

I simply feel lost. I lost my love, I lost my future, I lost who I am. I lost my pride, I lost my calm demeanor. I could continue with the losses, but simply put...I feel lost. The only thing I haven't lost it seems is my heart...you all know how much I have tried everything, how much I feel for this person, and how far I was willing to go for them. It is almost pitiful that I would run to the end of earth for someone who once did the same for me, but then all of a sudden just stopped. Literally, overnight. I saw her try to fight through the alcoholism, and watched her try to pick up the pieces of her life, and just kept falling. I saw her try to be there for me, but in the end, couldn't help but go get another few glasses of wine.

I look at our interactions, and although it is so far tainted...when we last danced together the other night...it all just disappeared again...for her...for me. These were the types of moments that keep pulling me back. How simple it all needed to be between us, and how loving it can be, and how gentle it can be...but then there is this gigantic whirlwind that rips her away from me (I literally had a vision of this in my head as I typed this and it just tears me apart). Like some unstoppable force tearing us apart. I reach and she literally can't reach back, but she wants to.

I feel myself slowly slipping away. Initially, it was all adrenaline pumping, and survival. Now, it has been many weeks and many other traumatic events, and no sleep. I feel on the verge of a break down. I already look at the mess that this has caused in my work at school, and I can barely focus on anything. You all ask me what I am doing to try to better myself...I just try to fight to want to live right now.

I have tried over and over to detach...but what always seems to come back is the same common thread. Addiction...whether it be mine for her...or her addiction to alcohol.

It is a peculiar thing to me that I hear that many people can just walk away from important relationships. I can understand that "we" didn't sign up for this...but we did sign up for "in sickness and health." I mean I never made it that far...but my mind was already there by putting the ring on her finger. Maybe it is just me, I don't feel that divorce is ok, or that you shouldn't work things out...just walk away.

I did get a chance to ask her if there were such detrimental issues in our relationship that threatened us being together...why didn't she ever communicate that to me? She said she tried...but I do not recall ever hearing "if this doesn't get worked out between us...it will threaten us being together." In fact, we hardly fought, and had little to no problems in the first 3 1/2 years. It was when the alcohol came into the picture full force that problems occurred. At least for me, I know my issues stemmed from that. For her, I always wonder if it was a skewed perspective...because I always did try to listen, tried to help her in her pursuits, and supported her fully.

Now I am left wondering what this last encounter meant...was it nothing? Was it the ramblings and actions of a severe alcoholic? Or was that brief moment of clarity in both our eyes looking at one another with her in my arms actually real? I know it was for me. I know she felt something because she kissed me...but was it all just rubbish? Someone was quick to point out that I am in denial...that I like it when she does things I like, and find it hard to accept the things she does that I don't like. True. But what am I supposed to think from such an encounter? You all have been there...romantic moments with important people in our lives are, to me, beyond the physical world type experiences. I can't just say this was nothing. I am left wondering...uncertainty. Did it mean anything to her? In rehab, will she think about that...will it matter at all to her? What about all of our past? Is that just gone!? Time to move on? Why time to move on? Why can't she just own up to her mistakes and work hard for us again? Start with a new thread to work from? Sometimes relationships get even stronger from such experiences...but I have no clue what is to happen while she is in there this time! It terrifies me, and I don't want to act on fear, ever.

Now maybe you see why I called this thread feeling lost...

It isn't just about what has happened to keep posting on my topic. I think there are many others who feel this way too. After all the chaos, or amid the chaos...those of us who are sober, and love unconditionally...we can get so beat up...be so vulnerable...and for what? Or because of what? Alcohol? I never thought in a million years I would be here. And now that I am here...I am on the verge of a complete and utter breakdown...which would essentially bring me to where she is now...

Just feeling lost...wishing for clarity...hoping for the best...seeing and experiencing the worst..but having faith in me...in her...in that there is something larger.

What a mess...just feeling lost...

SparkleKitty

I don't know, Joel. I feel for you, I really do. My encounters with addiction -- my mother, my ex-boyfriend -- have taught me a bit about true unconditional love.

One thing is that I must have it for myself before I can give it to anyone else.

The other is that loving someone unconditionally often means accepting them for exactly who they are at this moment, and letting go of who I wish they were. Sometimes a consequence of that acceptance is that I cannot have that person whom I love in my life anymore. "Unconditional" is not a state of loving that is rewarded with getting what you wish for. "Unconditional" is honest, it lets go of the fantasy, it affords everyone involved the dignity of reality.

I think it's natural for us to want the person who hurt to also be the one to heal us, but the reality is that they are often perfectly unequipped to do that.

hopeful4

Joel, I know you are hurting, and I am sorry for that. You are right, we have all said it, continued contact with her and her family make you hurt more. However, that is up to you.

I think you are a sweet and romantic guy. I also think her time of things just sailing along were her avoiding talking about the elephant in the room, and as most addicts, as long as they can avoid it, they will.

I feel for you. I hope you continue w/therapy. Maybe it's time to step that up a bit?

Sending you a big, and much needed, hug.

firebolt

I remember feeling lost....so well. It's such a painful place to be.

But, if there ever were a time and a place for growth for me, that was it.

I had to spend a lot of time with JUST myself to find me again. I had to read everything I could about the 'stuff' that I kept doing that kept leading me to the same places.

You can do it man! "This pain is temporary , and no one ever died from discomfort." (((HUGS))) to you.

GoodguyJoel

Sparkle,

Thank you for the response. I do see where you are coming from. I do grasp that I have to accept the present version of this person. I do in fact. This is why I can still love and care for her. I was told once by a wise person on here (COD I believe) to give her the dignity to make her own choices. I have never stopped her...and every interaction we have had since we saw each other again focused on that saying "you have to do this for yourself...I will not force you to." But I do see a person in such deep s*** that it is nearly impossible to even focus on reality. That her life is simply minute to minute as of now. Which I also respect. It isn't about just locking her back in with me. Her life was clearly at risk, and of course as her fiance, that scares the heck out of me. I hear the mother say things that are becoming more accepting of reality, which is unless she takes this bout of rehab more seriously...she will likely end up dead or homeless.

Another person pointed out that I am angry with the other guy. And they are damn right. He promotes this behavior...this unrealistic perspective of what life with addiction can be like...that it will just disappear and these two can just be together, that if she gets better, she can go back to him. When I hear this... I see some similarities to my claims...yeah if she gets sober and means it...we could discuss going forward together. The difference is that I accept that there will be relapses...or that it is truly never gone. It is so clear to all involved (and I said this before) that he is one major toxic element here. His own addictions, and small view of what he is up against for life, lead me to a similar outlook on him. Not out of jadedness...but because I too feel it is certain death if she doesn't take rehab seriously...and runs back to him. Sure, I have to accept this as a possibility...but it doesn't mean I like it. I mean you have all heard the seriousness of this. How could she seriously expect a week to change anything...or even 21 days. Not only this, but to run off from those who do support her and would continue to.

So this is where she is at...and my unconditional part of me accepts that. But accepting and liking are two different things. I do not like one single aspect of what has happened. But it is reality. And yes, I do wish she could see the immense pain and suffering she has caused...because she then could make the choice to do something about that.

This is interesting...
I told her that I have been on this forum, and go to Al Anon, and see a counselor. She said "Why, its not your problem? It doesn't affect you." My response- "You may think it doesn't, but trust me when I say that it does. And it isn't just me that is."

I am hard pressed to imagine that didn't make an impression on her...but it depends on if she can accept and see reality. But that element would be just the tip of the iceberg in understanding what she has done to herself and others over the recent past, and that might take serious work to really reveal the truth. This, like many other things, is out of my control.

GoodguyJoel

trailmix,

How exactly did she communicate this to me (not being rude...I genuinely don't see it)? What flattery, and from who's end? And the insults that I presented in previous threads only occurred in the last few months (literally one or two before first rehab)...I never treated her with disrespect before that. That was at a point where I felt disrespected and so cornered trying to do whatever I could that I lashed out at the obvious elephant in the room...the alcohol and her consumption of it. I am not trying to make an excuse...as I feel awful having said those things. I just didn't know what else to do since kindness wasn't helping, so I tried other avenues...unfortunately, the choice to be unkind was not who I am, and I became unreasonable. It is easy in hindsight to say that this wasn't the best choice, but during it I acted on emotion.

What more did I need to see? This assumes that she was drinking because of me? I thought we covered this long ago? That I cannot be to blame for her choices to drink. I get that there is underlying reasons why people drink...so is your assumption that she drank because she was unhappy with me? Then why continue to drink and go on a bender when I was no longer in the picture, with her supposed new happiness with the new guy?

I saw that she had many deep rooted issues, and I couldn't see how I was adding to that. Or if I was. All I do know is that, sure, people can process emotions differently, and I may have tried to provide solutions sometimes when I should have just listened...but that all changed by me actively trying to listen more. The fixing things is a guy thing, and I was aware of it and tried hard to be more attentive than offer solutions. Likewise, I always supported her and wanted to in whatever her next career path was (not because if what I wanted her to be...but to help her be the best she could be...as a team). She even became interested in becoming a therapist after her outpatient work, and I said I could totally see her becoming one...she loves helping people. I told her that she should think about that again when in rehab this time once she has time to focus on such a matter. Again still supportive.

What you are saying isn't harsh...it is great questions and thoughts to ponder. So thank you. As for accepting who she is...I always have accepted her, I just couldn't watch her kill herself and be ok with it. Meaning that when she made positive life choices, I was all about it. When she wasn't I would still accept that this is her, but I would make my feelings known, and try to help her find those positive life choices. That doesn't mean I would say "change or I wont love you"...it just meant that she wanted kids with me...she wanted a beautiful wedding and life with me...and to do that I would point out that she would need to be sober, so that those things would even be obtainable and sustainable. I suppose it was a recommendation of obviousness, something anyone would tell her.

BAW81

GGJoel - After knowing everything you know about her, after everything she's done, after being dumped by her, after (hopefully) reading other threads beyond your own and learning about the pain it is to be married AND divorce an alcoholic, after knowing that she will battle this every moment of every day for the rest of her life, why do you want to be with her anymore?

Many of us, myself included, are currently trying to legally and financially untangle ourselves from the destruction. AND, some of us, again myself included, will forever be linked because we have children....

I know everyone has to walk their own path but my perspective is you're in love/fixated with your "ideal" of her, of the person she was or you thought her to be....I hope you eventually realize that you're chasing and obsessing a fantasy which in reality is a nightmare.

As always, I wish you TRUE clarity.

NYCDoglvr

So, do you trust and respect her? I found I couldn't love someone if that wasn't at the forefront. I suggest Alanon.

GoodguyJoel

trailmix, atalose, COD:

all very very valid points. Trailmix, are you saying she was being manipulative or that I was being? It came up in conversation due to her saying if she drinks, it wont be for a long time, but she still wants to later on...and eventually I spoke up and said how it affects people around her. I told her my experience and what I have been doing to try to educate myself. These components I listed were part of that.

COD, you may be right! I don't even get how she can separate from her best girlfriends of many many years like it is nothing...maybe she doesn't care. That certainly would explain how I could be disposed of so easily.

Atalose, I get the analogy of the water level. Its a good one. And yes, all who were involved see that she looks at us like "buzzkills". Or better yet, that we are enemies. If we aren't a resource, then we are her enemies. Also, the alcohol saturated brain...totally agree. And I brought this point up long ago that it is very likely that she isn't in a sound state of mind. This became even more clear to me when she said she doesn't know what she wants...me or the other guy. OR even better, that she still wants to drink down the road in time. This is likely due to huge chemistry changes which are wired for that desire to drink. And regarding what happened between us...she certainly remembered the next day or two after it.

One of her girlfriends was texting her the other day asking if she is working. She said no...and that the new guy is a CEO and will take care of all that for her (money wise). Wow what an absurd thought...that everyone else will take care of everything for her. But hey who am I to say...I tried to keep things afloat for her for some time once she lost her job...but I never expected that she wouldn't work again...my god she would be too bored. Just sounds like anyone who will keep this charade going for her...

BAW81

Welcome to the worst club you'll ever be a member. I'm currently having to learn how to do this because this is what I HAVE to do and its honestly the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

GoodguyJoel

COD,

good point...It is hard to accept a person who wants to unknowingly kill themselves. I guess I accept she is an alcoholic...I just don't want to see her hurt herself. Why would suicide prevention hotlines exist...or police come running to a "jumper." Is it because they don't accept them? Or merely because people want to help people realize their full potential in life, not the lack of potential in death. I accepted every detail of her, but I couldn't be ok with her harming herself. I can accept that she wants to drink...I can't accept that the want to drink trumps her ability to live. I guess that is a weird predicament...she may want to hurt herself...well please dont hurt yourself...you are important.

BAW, I get this a lot on here...this idea of her thing. What is the idea? the past? Or that when together again, we still could experience the same wonderful emotions? I guess I have a tough time with this topic because I am not simply just saying oh she would have been a great mom and this is how I see it...it was because of the actions she had taken around other kids, around me. She of course wasn't a mom...so I guess that is simply an idea, so I do see where you are coming from...but I don't feel like I am idolizing her...I just love this person. As for why do I want to be with her? well it isn't because I want a trophy...I find that idea sickening. its because right away when together, it was enjoying similar things, similar foods, similar thoughts and views...we share in almost everything. I admire her intelligence when she isn't using it against people or for conniving for another drink.

NYC, I certainly can respect her and do. But trust is a good point.

I guess I can't answer these all "perfectly" and that is why I feel lost...

GoodguyJoel

sylvie,

thank you. I agree. I guess I started this thread in hopes that it wouldn't return to the question answer scenario. I just wanted to get that feeling out. The lost feeling...The feeling of uncertainty. The uncertainty for her and I, for her life, for her loss of everyone who ever cared about her...

For me, that original post was about me...my conflicts and inner turmoils. I tried to say that these are the things I am going through due to being right up along side addiction...I didn't really ask any overtly outward questions. Much more of an inner dialog. A day in the life of Joel...But I know this isn't a blog...and thats why it is regarding a specific topic...the lost feeling due to engagement with an active addict.

trailmix

Joel, just want to clarify that I didn't mean that at all. What I meant was - you say don't drink, your drinking sucks, you suck when you drink.

She drinks anyway. By drinking she is "saying" - replying to your demands/questions/ultimatums

GoodguyJoel

Firespirit.

I am sorry you feel that way. I promise you I am no internet troll. Just a person who was inadequately prepared for this aspect of life.

That quote you put up does not detail it was solely regarding the SR folks, or a negation of the years of efforts put forth by people on here. I just mean that I am told that elsewhere, I hear from other people that they can just walk away. I have a very good friend that this happened to, and I just could never understand it. That wasn't regarding any addiction issues in his case. But I see how my writing came off as unclear by immediately switching to talking about how we didnt sign up for this, but trying hard in a marriage. I just wanted to bring the ideas together that some people walk away (in general)...and maybe we in this community didnt sign up for an addict, but we got it, and I personally have a tough time just giving up on such a relationship. Thats not to SAY YOU ALL DONT HAVE A TOUGH TIME. I WAS JUST SPEAKING FOR MYSELF.

I feel bad that I come off as talkative troll... I just have this up on my work computer and try to speak my mind, because it is hard to do else where were people don't know what you are going through. Meaning, to be clear, you all do clearly know what I am going through, and I wouldn't waste my time on here if I didn't think there was some value to be gained. Or if I was a troll, this would be one odd location to chose to proceed as such.

littlesister1

Joel

I have been following your threads
The A in my life is my brother
YOU WILL NEVER GET ANSWERS

She loves booze and only booze and you are a doormat.

I am beginning to think you are enjoying the agony, there is no other logical reason you would keep flogging a dead horst.

It doesn't matter if what you had was real, to you yes it was
To her, hell no. SHE LOVES BOOZE AND ONLY BOOZE AND WILL JETTISON EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING THAT KEEPS HER FROM IT

Put your big boy pants and DEAL WITH REALITY
Sheesh

trailmix

Joel, you can't say "I accept it" and follow it with an "I" or "but". Well you can, and you just did (and you do it often).

You are saying I accept you BUT. That's far far away from I accept you.

Yes it does. You are saying - I can't marry you as you are. That may not exactly be spelling out "I won't love you" but you said you would not marry her as she is. You said that. That's clear, it's clear to everyone here, it was/is apparently clear to her too. I'm not saying you are wrong for saying it, you are entitled to your boundaries.

She won't be bored, she will be drinking.

dandylion

GoodGuy Joel.....I am aware that you are not going to really "hear" much of anything that is being said. For the most part....AFTER the grieving is completed, you will remember many of the things that were said...and, view them through a different filter...a different light...from a different emotional space....

Even, just having said that...I will repeat this (again)....every feeling you talk about---every question you ask about the relationship--every rationalization you have---every attempt at "bargaining".....the feeling lost...the feeling helpless....the fears....the inability to concentrate...every single bit of it....
I have heard from other people in your situation...and/or have gone through, myself. This will continue for several more m onths as it co mpletes it's course...in kalediscope fashion, until it tapers away....The first year is hell and it seems to turn a major corner, after that....
I think you should cling to your counselor during this time....and I am concerned that you might have some depression mixed w ith this stuff....***Tell your counselor about this and any suicidal ideation you might be having....
Please, please, please, have other people around you...like, at night, and on the weekends....
Do...actually, DO...come of the techniques that are designed to help this grieving, that I have shared with you on the forum and PMs. If you don't remember them...I am not going to type them, again....my fingers are too tired...lol.....Go back and read them again....they help if you actually DO them....

This grieving is a necessary part of the healing...the first step...everyone must go through it....
After this storm....the sun will shine again....
I do wish you would read the material from Floyd P. Garrett, MD...about how the alcoholic mind works and relationships with alcoholics. (I gave you the link in my other posts)....If you read it before, you might, still need to read it again....

You need to ventilate face to face with those who understand what you are going through....People who are grieving need to be heard with compassion. Human contact is the most important factor, through this process, in my opinion.....and, I have spent a lot of time helping people who were grieving hard....

dandylion

Oh, and, Joel...I will repeat more caution....
You have mentioned wanting to have children with her...and what a good mother that she would be.....
Really...really...think that one through. The most harrowing stories on this forum often center around the walk through hell it is for those who are parenting with an alcoholic....you should read them....
Of all the concequences of being with an alcoholic....the parenthood one is the one that provides the most long term destructiveness. Giving a child a parent who is an alcoholic is not doing that child a favor. Maybe you wouldn't mind relapses and the chaos that it brings....but a developing child is scarred in ways that will follow them for the rest of their life.....
Perhaps the orderly progression of these forces of the Universe is protecting you (and your unborn children) in a way that you can't possible comprehend, right now...but, will understand in the future.....

atalose

That is why we encourage you NOT to take anything and I do mean ANYTHING she has said to heart or place into a bank for your future.

See its easier for us to say, they pushed us away, they chose someone else because of all the booze. BUT when they make promises or give us words of hope like MAYBE somewhere down the road we can get back together or we tangle there words into meanings of hope, for a future with them we tend to not want to see it’s also the booze talking.

We can’t have it both ways can’t say the bad stuff is blamed on the booze but the hopeful stuff is not.

Life is not fair, life hurts at times it’s all part of living. And yes some people do die from their addiction that is a harsh reality and an even bigger one to accept about a loved one.

I can say this from experience, all the times I became filled with dread and overcome with fear that he was going to dye, he never did. Numerous trips to the ER, countless rehabs and detoxes and yup I believe he’s still at it today. The only thing different, I am no longer a witness to it all.

trailmix

I hope you take what Dandylion says here to heart. She's spot on.

My Father was an alcoholic, he never had "recovery", never tried that i'm aware of. I don't hold any animosity toward him now, he had his demons.

If you were to carry on this relationship with her, you would probably want to wait for her to have at least 5 or 6 years of solid sobriety before thinking about having children.