CaptainM

I also want to say that if you do decide to leave - divorce is not a death sentence (someone here on SR told me that )

If your vows get thrown in your face - like mine have by my AH - I like to remind him that he deprived me of a healthy spouse for years and there is a limit to "for better or for worse" Also - another set of wise words from SR, marriage is not a mutual suicide pact.

((((hugs)))) Keep posting, asking, reading!

atalose

When the pain of staying becomes greater than your fear of leaving….you’ll make the right decision for yourself.

Al-anon can help you work through the FOG if you let it.

Fear

Obligation

Quilt

Working towards becoming your own individual and having your own self-worth/value without him as that anchor should be a goal to set.

SaveYourHeart

I agree! I'm hoping that between the forums here, the books I'm going to read, and al-anon, I'll be a lot more clear-minded and less codependent!

maia1234

SYH,
Welcome to SR, glad you found us. There is a lot of help on this forum if you want to do the work. You will see in Alanon, they recommend not to make any big decisions for 6 months. This is not a race. Sit back and educate yourself on how you want to move forward. You need to be strong enough to execute any decision that you decide is best for you and your future.

You can attend open AA meetings also, besides the stickies up at t he top of the page to read. There is a lot information to take in. Keep asking questions. Your ah seems to have a temper. Does he has access to your password on your computer? You might want to change it to make sure that he doesn't see what you are doing. He is going to see you changing and not understand what is going on. Please at all costs, protect yourself. If he is drunk and out of control, leave the home. Don't second guess anything. You do not need to engage with a drunk. If you are worried, call the cops and tell them whats going on. Women and men are hurt all the time while their spouse is drunk and doesn't remember what they do under the influence.

Stick around my friend, your life will slowly get better!!

SaveYourHeart

I changed my passwords when he changed his passwords, to make a point. (: I will try not to engage him when he's drunk, it just seems like only then does he want to talk about things that are important to me and close to my heart. I'll be the first to say I'm super passionate about the things I love and support, and my friends/family, and sometimes my temper is out of hand. I will absolutely try harder not to engage when he's been drinking!

maia1234

Hon,
I was told many years ago when you are talking to a drunk, you are both speaking two different languages. You don't understand him and he doesn't understand you. Do not waste your time dealing with him when he is drunk. He won't remember it and you will only get upset about it.

If he chooses to start a fight, tell him you are sorry. If you have to say sorry ten times, do it. This way you keep the peace and he will eventually pass out.
Do not for any reason try to engage with him, it is a waste of your time.

Stay safe my friend!!

LexieCat

What maia said. It may LOOK like he's willing to discuss important issues, but he's not in his right mind. You'd be better off discussing important issues with your dog. Drunks tend to get sloppy or emotional (angry, maudlin, unrealistically optimistic/grandiose, etc.). Even if he remembers later what you discussed, he's likely to twist it.

Truly. Nothing good can come of discussing/arguing with someone under the influence.

Bekindalways

SYH, you come across as a very intelligent young woman who will have a steep learning curve.

Big hug to you and let us know how things go. What you are going through is sure not a cake walk . . . as I'm sure you well know. We will do all we can to support you.

SaveYourHeart

We had a really constructive conversation last night while he was sober. He still refuses to get help but he's promised to cut the drinking back to a maximum of 2 nights a week. I know it would be better if he would commit to being sober, but this is a big step in the right direction for him (I hope).

I also let him know that I wanted to go to al-anon meetings (which I've been putting off because I didn't know how he'd react). He embraced that idea and said that it would probably be good for me. Instead of lecturing him on how drinking is bad, I just listed a few ways his drinking has been affecting me and how I needed to focus on getting my head straight. Surprisingly, he was extremely supportive and I think (hope) that he's starting to understand that he's been hurting me and our marriage with his drinking.

We've never had a conversation like this that's remained civilized. I'm hopeful that this focus I'm taking on myself will help him also focus on himself.

LexieCat

It's not a "step" in any direction, unfortunately. He may have every intention of drinking only two nights a week, but he will be UNABLE to sustain it. I can virtually guarantee that.

And I would really suggest that you not expect your recovery to bring about his. He's on his own timetable, which may be totally different from yours. The focus on yourself is for YOU, not him.

CaptainM

You say, "He still refuses to get help but he's promised to cut the drinking back to a maximum of 2 nights a week." this is not a recovery plan A's cannot moderate and I think you should manage your expectations. What happens on those nights he does drink and gets out of control? Is that fair to you?

You also say, "I also let him know that I wanted to go to al-anon meetings (which I've been putting off because I didn't know how he'd react). " This is YOUR life - don't wait for him to react to your plans for recovery. You do not need his permission to go to Al Anon. You do what is right for you

And remember, ACTIONS speak louder than words (even during "civilized conversations")

I do hope you go to a meeting this weekend. I tried out a few meetings at first to see if one spoke to me more than another - so don't be afraid to try out a few

SaveYourHeart

Thanks for the support guys! I really need to do more reading on alcoholism, because I obviously don't know what I'm doing or what I'm up against. I'll keep my expectations low and focus on me, even though I am hopeful that he'll have a lightbulb moment, I've come to terms with the fact that he has to make the decision to get better. I quite simply can't be an enabler anymore.

CaptainM - I'm hoping these meetings and the education I do on my own will help restore my confidence in myself and that I won't feel like I need to ask him before I do things. It's just been so long that I've needed permission and walked on eggshells, it's hard to break the habit.

I'm trying to read through the forums here the best I can, and I ordered Codependent No More and Beyond Codependency (it had a hummingbird on it, I COULDN'T RESIST -hummingbirds are my favorite)

I already feel a lot more comfortable here sharing with y'all than I did on LoveShack, because I think Loveshack caters to marriage and relationships in general, but my marriage is far from normal and I feel more confident confiding in people that understand and that have been in similar situations. So thank you guys, I really appreciate your support!

CaptainM

((((hugs))))) to you!

You're taking some great steps. Keep taking them. We're here for you! Things won't happen overnight, but hopefully you'll soon start to see a change in you

I think you'll find Codependency No More very enlightening!

ladyscribbler

I remember those conversations, being filled with hope that he was finally seeing how bad his drinking was for everyone in the family, including himself. Then being absolutely gutted when things went right back to the way they had been, or often worse, because after a brief period of attempting moderation (or usually just being to broke to afford as much booze as he wanted) he would get resentful and go on a raging bender. Some of the worst incidents in our relationship happened after he'd had a period of forced sobriety or "moderate" maintenance drinking.

Please be very careful, because a lot of what you've written reminds me of how our relationship progressed, with verbal abuse and rages eventually turning physical, being "rough" with animals, ludicrous accusations, the double standard of holding every mistake I'd ever made against me forever which meant he got a free pass to do whatever he wanted.

I know now that he wasn't drinking to hurt me. It was part of the compulsion of his disease. I'm sure he wanted to be able to dial it back and be a normal drinker, but that's not possible for an alcoholic. Him promising to control his drinking was like someone with the flu promising not to get a fever. Or, as Stephen King, a longtime recovering alcoholic said so poetically, "Telling an alcoholic to control their drinking is like telling someone with a cataclysmic case of diarrhea to control their s-ing."

I had to enter my own recovery in Al Anon to see that we were both powerless over his disease, but that I had always had the power to change my own circumstances without waiting for him to get sober. I also educated myself on abuse and saw that while I had blamed everything on his drinking, they really were two separate issues. It just made it easier for me to believe that him getting sober would fix everything else that was wrong in our relationship.

hopeful4

What lady just said!!!!

Wow, I remember being in this stage. The bargaining stage. I hope it works better for you guys than it did in my family. Very few alcoholics can moderate their drinking. For my XAH, this just made him sneaky and hide it more, which in turn about made me crazy. I don't miss that at all.

Please take good care of yourself. Keep posting, you are not alone!

SaveYourHeart

It's so strange to hear that this is a stage that several of you have been through! And now, thankfully, I have an idea of what happens next! It's nice to not feel so alone in this!

hopeful4

You are not alone!

What I regret about this stage is that I absolutely focused on "catching" him drinking when he was not supposto, and finding his stash. Thing is, he will either drink or he won't, and there is nothing you can do to control that. So don't lose yourself or your happiness to the insanity that comes with it. Time will tell all things, in the mean time, focus on you and what you can do to keep yourself sane.

Hugs!

LexieCat

One other thing I might mention. I have first-hand experience on both sides of alcoholic relationships. My first husband eventually got sober (before we got married) and he will celebrate 37 years next week. My second husband I had to leave after he went back to drinking following a near-death experience as a result of his drinking. And I am 8 years sober, myself. I know, personally, what it's like to make promises and to declare intentions, only to find they are IMPOSSIBLE to keep. Every alcoholic wants to drink "normally"--it just isn't possible for them.

And yes, he will hide it from you. He will lie, he will blame you and other things in his life for any of his problems. Just be ready for those things to happen.

SaveYourHeart

Thank you, at least now I won't be blindsided. <3

RevivingOphelia

Hi SaveYourHeart,

So glad you found your way here. That was me over on LoveShack who gave you the link to this site!

I hope you find your way out of this relationship in a manner that is healthy and safe for you as I also see many red flags and no indication that he is ready to quit drinking entirely. I know, though, that everyone progresses at their own level of readiness in these relationship matters.

I see you have already had some great support/advice offered in this forum. Please keep posting and checking in!

Best to you.