LexieCat

I don't think you're "doing it to yourself" but you are not taking advantage of the protection you fought so hard to get. The order isn't self-enforcing, unfortunately. The police and the courts can't stop what they don't know about. You fought for the order, you should not be ashamed to use it. It doesn't matter if you allowed him to chit chat with you at the kids' games. That doesn't invalidate the order.

Violations tend to escalate slowly, putting one toe over the line and seeing what the response is. If nothing happens, a little more of the foot goes over. And so on, until he is in your face screaming insults at you--or worse. Stop it now and it may never get to that point. Allow it to continue and it won't be any easier for you.

FireSprite

It's a raw nerve Meg, I can understand that.... but Bimini is right in a way. Every comment that has every felt like it hit me too hard was because it was also too accurate & something I didn't WANT to have to see or deal with.

Let's take the "blame" & "fault" out of it and call it "control" instead..... you have the power to change this dynamic by enforcing your boundaries/that order of protection. Maybe it didn't seem like you were giving him leeway until now but now you can't "unsee" it either. You are holding the power in this situation right now & I think that's what bothers him more than ANYTHING.... don't be afraid to USE it. ((((Hugs))))

Bookaboo2

Megg it happened 10 yrs ago but it still feels very much like it was yesterday. They nvr stop meaning the abuser. So take care set boundaries and stick to them. They only care about THEMSELVES and what you can do for them. My ex husband called me one week to tell me his mother was dying of terminal cancer which was odd that he called bc he nvr calls me for anything. So I was civil and gave him some information bc it's within the type of wrk I do. Well 2 days later he calls me and says can we meet this weekend to talk about that " thing" we talk about 2 days ago. I hve learned to become very detailed specific with him. That's when he said so we can talk about our son living with him. When I said no the next week a received documents from his lawyer stayed that he is seeking full custody of our son bc he feels am neglecting him and endangering him. Am telling you this bc nothing that they do is for you its always about them. Look into using and called our family wizard for contact with the kids. It keeps things very simple and it can be a legal document in court. Another app that's free is called our 2 houses bc our family wizard cost money. Stay strong and only think about yourself bc trust me he ain't thinking about you

FireSprite

Here's a thought for you Meg - Acceptance.

It's not going to change. He's not going to just wake up tomorrow, sober, happy & committed to working out your differences in co-parenting. Until the girls are grown & even beyond that, you'll always have to stay vigilant to the addiction talking, the abusive person that he is, the ongoing need for recovery. Have you really, truly accepted that this is part of your LIFE now, not just a phase that has a beginning & end?

My sister has an abusive XAH. It took her years to get healthy after finally getting away from him one day in a Blaze of Glory - she was able to get away with her 2.5-yr old & the clothes on their backs. She started over from absolute nothing, the 2 of them sharing mattresses squeezed into the home office at my house. She is 180 degrees different from That Girl now but when her ex contacted her out of the blue after many years of silence, she immediately reverted to old habits. Triggered a total knee-jerk reaction that she couldn't even SEE.

I literally did this, in response --------> WHAT?

It takes time to get to a new comfort level, but you'll always need to stay aware.

I'm saying this as gently as possible but again, Acceptance. You ARE on opposite sides of things. You ARE divided. You can't pretend around it, it really gets confusing for kids to get these mixed signals. Eventually she IS going to have to "pick between you" so to speak & I get that she's only 6 but I know that kids are resilient when given the right tools too. (DD was 5ish when we started down this road ourselves.) Please be careful not to give the kids false labels & definitions for your family dynamic. When you aren't getting along, they don't need the details but they don't gain from the impressions that everything is A-OK! It belies what their own gut instincts will be telling them. ((((hugs))))

dandylion

meggem.....I get it that you want the ideal for your kids to see.....two happy, mutually supportive parents, sitting together and getting along great. Who wouldn't.... But, that is not the situation, right now....and, truthfully, kids who are old enough to play soccer can accept certain boundaries and realities better than the upset and guilty feeling parent. (as long as everyone stays civil and calm).

meggem....don't fall into the trap (because of your guilt feelings) of thinking that being "relaxed" about the order or lifting the order is going to bring you closer to your desires. Actually, I believe that this would be steps toward allowing things to be worse, down the line.
If things ever do get better in the future in regards to his behaviors...it will have to come from him and the things that he does...rather than from the things that you do.

I think that having firm boundaries best thing you can do for all concerned.

I am glad that you are not going to drop the order. Remember that the kids will take their cues from you. I f you stay calm and confident with firm boundaries...that is what will make them feel most secure.

dandylion

LexieCat

Yes, kids can understand that there's a rule in place that doesn't allow mom and dad to talk right now, except for very important conversations about stuff like school, sports, and going to the doctor, and that the rule is for everyone's benefit. Kids understand "rules," and that breaking the rules can get you in trouble.

You're in a difficult position--no doubt about it. But you've made the hard decision to seek the order to restore some calm to your life and the kids' lives. Don't be ashamed to keep standing up for what you did for yourself and for them.

NYCDoglvr

It's your choice: if you want hurtful messages from him continue to have contact. If you want to move on, go no contact. A leopard doesn't change his spots.

meggem

Yes, I did/do believe this is a phase - I didn't realize it until I read it, but I guess that is exactly what I was thinking. I'm a little horrified at the truth of what I am reading.

You are right, it's not - it's my life and I guess this will be my life and acceptance is something I need to work on. I thought him and I would evolve.

This is all very new material for me. It's all accurate, but it feels a bit devastating right now.

I really did think that "one day" this would all be "behind me/us" and I guess I really did think that we would co-parent into the sunset.

I have no hopes or wants or desires to get back together, I barely respect him, but I really did think that things would only get "better" as time goes on.

My daughter is turning 7 in October and I thought that next year at this time, maybe he will be at her birthday party instead of missing out on it. That we could be a happy divorced couple ever. How foolish of me.

I got relaxed about the order. He completely manipulated me and did exactly what Lexie said he would.

He said he might soon be living at the Y (ymca) and that any profit from the sale of the house (he lives with his parents) will go to their care - and there is nothing left for him. His parents while aging, are healthy and active. There is no threat to his living there. I asked if they were going into a home and he said "well,...no, not yet"

He said this was not for him, it was for all of us and for once he is not being selfish by only thinking of himself.

Then he became agitated and offended when I denied his request. "Come on Now, Meg - Let's be REAL."

I feel so clueless and naive.

Firesprite are you SURE I shouldn't pretend a little bit for the sake of the kids!?
I just don't get that! I don't get two parents on opposite sides of the field - I think if that is the case, then one parent should not attend.

My mother is as codependent as they come - she's a care taker and a people pleaser.


clearly-- left to my own devices I am a hot mess.

meggem

Someone said to me last week "Once a cucumber is pickled it can never go back to being a cucumber" - It totally stuck with me - well, I guess not enough but that was something I could visualize

meggem

So apparently the only thing in the WORLD that is holding him back from the job of a lifetime is the PFA - and the ONLY person who can unlock the door to his happiness is ME.

happybeingme

I was a child of divorce and my dad is an alcoholic. He never attended any of my school or sports events. I wish he had. And I wouldn't have cared if he kept a thousand yards away from my mom. There are so many single parent situations now. They are more the norm than the exception. Your kids don't care if you sit together they just care that you are there. I think you may be more concerned about what others actually may think. Stop worrying. Keep yourself safe. That's all that matters

dandylion

meggem....this "parents" on opposite sides of the field is upsetting you much more than the kids, I suspect. actually, I spent years at soccer games...and I can tell you there are oodles of parents, every weekend who are attending byt not sitting together...LOL! Their kids know that their parents are seperated or divorced and they just roll with the flow. They are more focused on their own friends and what is going on, on the field, anyway.

As the children, they will have to learn to cope with the realities of life. This should help them become healthier....not the opposite. This, by no means, says that they can't be happy people.

dandylion

meggem

Thanks for sharing that Happybeingme, that means a lot. My parents were on again off again. My mom pretended everything was perfectly fine. They ultimately decided to stay together "for me" - That always made me sad - I always thought - I never asked you two to stay together - don't do me any favors - In fact, I wanted them apart so I could love them both the way I wanted to.

Yes Dandy this soccer field is really in my crawl. I suspect this is what triggered my "let's be civil" thing.

Codependent much? I'm just like my mother. And no, I don't care at all what other people think (seeing us separate) - not one tiny bit. It's really about my DD. But you guys make great points.

FireSprite

I'm positive Meg, I promise. And I'm not saying it doesn't suck because it does, it truly sucks to feel like you are somehow damaging that childhood innocence that they only get once in life... it was especially crappy to have to do all this in the name of crap I hadn't caused, crap that made me so angry myself. But I also started to see that not doing so meant leaving DD defenseless & following the bad pattern I was struggling to break. She didn't deserve to be lied to.

You know what happened Meg? DD & I got so much closer once she realized I was a "safe haven". All those questions she had in her head finally started to be verbalized.... I had NO CLUE she had been struggling to understand so much! (Yes, at FIVE!) She'd seen & heard things I hadn't but never brought them up because she was following the unwritten laws of secrecy we'd been showing her by example. I'd stay stoic through our convo & then cry myself to sleep, thinking of all that poor baby had stressed over.

RAH loved to perpetuate secrets when he was active - for the longest time he would freak out when he heard me tell people we were separated. "STOP saying that we're separated! Why are you telling people that??" Huh? We live in different houses - what do YOU call it? If I allowed that, I was a liar just like him.... why would I then expect DD to know the subtle difference? WAS there a difference? Doing it for the "right reasons" didn't make it less of a lie.

When DD realized I would always make good on my promise to give her honesty-to-the-best-of-my-ability she rewarded me with unwavering trust. Over the years of building on those early conversations, we are SOLID, she & I. There is literally nothing that she is afraid to ask me, nothing that I won't answer even if the answer is, "That's not really appropriate to talk about right now" or "I can't answer because I don't really understand it myself!".

Truth is divorce is very common for a variety of reasons these days. Our kids aren't the first or only kids to deal with parents on the opposite sides of the field. It's more uncomfortable for you than for them, I promise.

Ah, yes. To borrow a favorite line from the Simpsons you are apparently, "the cause of & solution to" all of his problems. Right. Sure. Not.

meggem

*sigh* how do I fix this? I admire what you said Firesprite-- about you and DD. That's what I thought I was doing. That's my intention. Your Ex sounds exactly like my mother. My mom wrote the book "Unwritten Laws of Secrecy" and apparently I am writing the sequel.

I have asked my 6 year old a billion times (but not in a while) if there was anything she wanted to ask me - tell me- nope. she's good. But I always felt like she had a mouthful. I thought about taking her to a counselor but I thought I don't want to fix what isn't broken.

Maybe I "got her out in time"?

She enjoys going off to her g-parents house and seeing her dad. Adjusting well?-check.

Maybe I'll bring the topic up again when it's appropriate. Maybe I'll go to Barnes and Noble. I'm sure there's a book on this. A whole dang section.

I don't want to lie to her - but I don't know how to tell her the truth without making her father look bad and no parent should ever speak ill of the other one.

I will do anything for my two girls. ANYTHING. That is 95% of why I am where I am.

I have some serious CODIE issues. Big time.

DAMN THE SOCCER FIELD.

Wisconsin

Ironically, Homer Simpson says that BEER is the cause of and solution to all of life's problems. Lord knows I've been living with THAT for five years!

Hang in there Meg...it's a tough, tough road. You come here for feedback, and your mind is open. ((HUGS))

FireSprite

This is a hard road in memory lane, whew. You know the things she wanted to ask?

Would she ALWAYS be able to live with me, 100%? (Like, I wanna see dad, visit him & stuff.... but I want to LIVE with you, can he change that? Can he MAKE me live with him?)

She'd been with him so many times while he'd been pulled over for speeding, etc that she was scared that one day it would be The Day & the cops would take him away & then how would she find me? (I worked with her to memorize my cell# & she regained a sense of control)

She came back for reassurance about living with me more times than I could count - "I mean, even if I grow up & go away to college....I can always come back here, right mom? YOU will always be home, right? Always?"

RAH was a good father but it didn't matter - she said she felt that he "didn't always make good choices" like "letting me have candy when even I know I shouldn't", driving aggressively (which scared her) & getting all those tickets!.... she said it made her feel unsafe, like the feeling on the Tilt-A-Whirl when her stomach twisted in knots during all those sudden spins. She didn't like/trust some of his friends.

I agree! I asked DD 5 questions for every 1 she asked me, lol. I tried to get her to think it through without introducing more information, I tried to use other examples of people she could relate to. I almost always responded initially with, "Well, what do YOU think?" If ANYTHING came up in school or a not-our-family-way that worked as a good example of something I wanted her to see or value, I used it. It also helped her compassion for others, outside of Us. I brought up stuff from my childhood - know what used to bother me? She would make the connection - Dad makes bad choices - & I'd ask her to give me examples instead of going on about what I thought about it. Then I'd say, well, I guess I agree with you. If she'd gotten part of it wrong, I'd gently correct her - sometimes she just was confused & mixed up & started lumping everything together under the same heading, "Bad Choices".... careful DD, that's your Opinion, that's your Judgment, not his Bad Choice.

I also found it helpful to get down to her level, look her in the eye, shut down other distractions like the tv & give her my FULL attention. She recognized it as respect & it encouraged her to open up a bit more.

Baby steps meg, like everything else. We know how much you love your girls, we know how much you are trying to do the right thing for them & they do too. You gotta start with you though, you gotta break those habits in you if you want to show them a healthier example. You can't give them what you don't have for yourself!

FireSprite

Yes, I caught the irony when I edited the comment, haha!

LexieCat

Just FYI, even though you returned the call, you can still report the violation. What I mean is, it isn't too late, you have proof that he contacted you. Even if you don't, though, I'd STRONGLY suggest this be his LAST CHANCE. Even if you feel like he isn't expecting you to report it because you didn't this time, there is nothing "unfair" about it. The order is the order is the order. Court's order, remember, not yours.

And while you're perusing reading material, if you haven't yet read Lundy Bancroft's book, "Why Does He DO That?" I strongly suggest you pick up a copy and read it--and maybe his other book, "When Dad Hurts Mom."

meggem

I just ordered both books off amazon