DesertEyes

That is _exactly_ what I am asking everybody to do. Yes, _assume_ that a person whom you cannot see _is_ being physically abused. Always assume that.

This is why:

The _most_ dangerous time in an abusive relationship is when the addict/alkie finds out that the spouse/partner is leaving. The majority of deaths and permanent injuries to the victim happen when she/he tries to leave. Therefore, the _worst_ advice to give in these cases is to encourage them to leave.

In all the psychology courses, social work, psychiatry, crisis line volunteer, the very first thing they teach you is _never_ tell them to leave. Never.

What they teach you is _first_ connect them with the experts on the subject. The Domestic Violence agencies. _They_ know how to assess the threat level, not you. _They_ will be able to earn their trust _quickly_, not you.

_After_ you get to know the person, _after_ you are 100% sure they are not being abused, only then can you consider "watering up" your message to them.

Consider the numbers. We have some 100,000 members on SR right now. Give or take a few thousand. Statistically we know that approximately 5 _thousand_ of these people are being physically abused by their partner _right now_. Right this minute as you are reading this text on your screen. Here is the challenge to all of your reading this post: Tell me _which_ ones are the 5 thousand I need to reach out to.

When you write "leave him" to _one_ person on _one_ thread, there are 5 thousand other members that read those words, and we really don't know how many thousands more who only read but never write. If any _one_ of those people is confused enough, desperate enough, lost enough, to believe those words and actually try to leave the drunk _without_ the support of real people in real life then, yes, people are getting hurt by bad advice.

Judging from the PM's we get, the emails, and the never ending funerals here in town, my personal experience is that telling them to leave is deadly wrong.

The summary is:

Do _not_ tell them to leave. Help them connect with the local Domestic Violence organization.

If you are serious about helping us volunteers here on SR, then _you_ go to your local Domestic Violence organization and take some classes. Volunteer at their shelter for a few hours a month. Learn how to do this the right way.

Mike
Moderator, Sober Recovery

honeypig

This is my situation also, and I guess that's why at least some of us are in the section for "Family and Friends of Alcoholics." I know someone earlier mentioned a separate section for those in abusive situations. I'd agree. Watering down our replies to those who are NOT in abusive situations may be just as harmful in its own way as posting direct responses to those who ARE in abusive situations, I believe. No, I'm not a professional either, but then again, the 8th Tradition of Alanon and AA is to remain "forever non-professional", right? If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

This is also my situation. There is a depth and breadth of experience here that I have never found in any Alanon meeting I've been to, simply b/c we have so many more members here who've walked their path in so many different ways. Alanon is important to me for the real-life, face-to-face component of it--that's where recovery takes place, in real life, face to face--but SR has done much more for me, if we compare the two. It's nice to get the "hugs, you'll be OK" replies, I guess, but it's important to get the other kind of replies, the ones that challenge me, that **** me off, that make me take a really hard look at myself and the situation. And like FireSprite, I have really no one among my family or friends who "gets it" about alcoholism and codependence and where I've been and where I hope to go...

This, too--so valuable to have leads to so much really great info, so many tools I never even imagined existed. As a resource, let alone a support system, SR is worth its weight in gold.

Another poster mentioned that SR seemed different than it did a year ago. I'd have to agree--it does seem that we have a lot more of the "run away and don't look back" type of post. If that's the kind of thing we're talking about here, I don't think it's all that useful to anyone, abuse victim or not. I think focusing on sharing ES&H is what SR is, or should be, all about. I don't think we should be focusing on whether some person, somewhere, at some point, might misunderstand something they read here and have a bad outcome as a result of that. We simply can't control that, right?

HikerLady

No one here has ever told me what to do, however I have felt emotionally minimized by a few statements/opinions. My perception, my feelings. I do realize that that was whole heartedly not the intent of those posters, they only know what little I have shared so they are only responding to what they feel and what their opinions are. I don't share a lot, I think that is why, but isn't that my issue to work on?

I'm not so sure that this isn't simply part of any forums natural course due to the variety of people, experiences etc. I just do not think it's realistic to expect everyone to "act right" when there truly is no one way to offer help that is meaningful for everyone. I honestly have not seen outright judgmental harshness from anyone here except in one very extreme situation that tripped quite a few people triggers and understandably so..and that's when the moderators stepped in and, I think, handled it perfectly by shutting it down, necessarily so. There's a beautiful balance in there somewhere, but I am afraid it'd take all of us being Gandhi or Mother Theresa types and oh boy would I run out of here and never come back personally.

What I need, and what I THINK (caution, this is simply my opinion) most of us need is simply to connect with others like ourselves, and to learn how to live a new normal out there in a world of craziness. I'd join a Buddhist temple if I only needed calm, level, judgement free living...That's lovely, but I live in a world with crazy, not calm, judgmental human beings and I need to learn how to digest that, cope with that in a healthy way so that I remain true to who I am despite that.

Thanks for the thread Free, I really needed to get this down in my own head.

hopeful4

This...
I think what I have gained from SR is the experiences that people have shared with me about their own lives, how they deal with that for the good or the bad, and the encouragement and support I know is always here for me. XXX

Summerpeach

There's a difference between tough love and harsh cold judgments. I stopped coming here a while back because of the some of the people who feel their "tough love" is helpful.

I am a mind /body therapist and know all about how to dish out tough love, but never would I tell any client who is suffering from addiction or codependency some of the things people say here to others.

This place was both a blessing and not a blessing for me when I was in the midst of my insanity with my ex. Meetings are more controlled and less judgmental. People are tougher behind a pc and I agree, the format here should be more al anon group based and the same people who come here year after year and regurgitate their "tough love" should be asked to leave or to stop posting their harsh comments.

freetosmile

Obviously, we call come from different perspectives and I think it's damn near impossible to cater to everyones perspectives.

It's never going to be perfect, what works for me, may not work for someone else.

But I just wanted to be clear--- I never once indicated that being "harsh" or "cruel" with people was a good support, or that people need to have the truth shot at them like a bullet. No way.....

But if everyone tip toed around me, guess I'm not sure I would have ever seen the light. So there is a fine balance there and I think SR pulls it off nicely. Maybe not all the time, but we do our best.