what SR is all about
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what SR is all about
LexiCat said something to me that resonated and I feel I must share.
I have some very loyal friends here on SR- that is what she said-
Damn right I do. And thank God for it.
And here's the thing and I hope that all of us will remember this-
SR is about supporting YOU- but there's a catch (there always is
)---
We will not sugar coat it, we will not minimize it, we will not downplay it, or however you want to say it. We say it like we see it because most of us spent sooo many years sugar coating alcoholism and sugar coating our codependecy. Also this disease does not carry with it the luxury of sugar coating-- you sugar coat and someone gets hurt. Period. End of story---
So, to everyone who hears things they DON'T like-- believe me I do too---we need to remember, generally we don't like it because it's just the damn truth and hanging around a LOT of people who have worked their asses off to NOT mince words can get you .....well ...with the truth! like it or not. Take it or leave it.
Having said that- if you choose NOT to heed our advice- we will not shun you. We will not chastise you. We will welcome you back with loving arms and tell you how bad you messed up....HA!-- that's a joke-- but we will still love you and validate those feelings that you so desperately need validated.
I had a bad attitude tonight. My SR friends saw that-- did they say-- ok, well we were wrong and we agree with you now? NO-- hell no-- they said, get a good nights rest, we don't have to talk about this tonight and we'll talk about it later. They also said that they will support me no matter what-----
THIS IS WHAT SR IS ALL ABOUT. This is why I love you guys.
Night
I have some very loyal friends here on SR- that is what she said-
Damn right I do. And thank God for it.
And here's the thing and I hope that all of us will remember this-
SR is about supporting YOU- but there's a catch (there always is
)---We will not sugar coat it, we will not minimize it, we will not downplay it, or however you want to say it. We say it like we see it because most of us spent sooo many years sugar coating alcoholism and sugar coating our codependecy. Also this disease does not carry with it the luxury of sugar coating-- you sugar coat and someone gets hurt. Period. End of story---
So, to everyone who hears things they DON'T like-- believe me I do too---we need to remember, generally we don't like it because it's just the damn truth and hanging around a LOT of people who have worked their asses off to NOT mince words can get you .....well ...with the truth!
like it or not. Take it or leave it. Having said that- if you choose NOT to heed our advice- we will not shun you. We will not chastise you. We will welcome you back with loving arms and tell you how bad you messed up....HA!-- that's a joke-- but we will still love you and validate those feelings that you so desperately need validated.
I had a bad attitude tonight. My SR friends saw that-- did they say-- ok, well we were wrong and we agree with you now? NO-- hell no-- they said, get a good nights rest, we don't have to talk about this tonight and we'll talk about it later. They also said that they will support me no matter what-----
THIS IS WHAT SR IS ALL ABOUT. This is why I love you guys.
Night
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
free, did I tell you today that I luv ya? And you still have that wicked sense of humor.
And no, we don't shoot our wounded here, we carry them, till they can stand on their own. Thanks for your thread.
(((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
amy
And no, we don't shoot our wounded here, we carry them, till they can stand on their own. Thanks for your thread.
(((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
amy
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Originally Posted by freetosmile 
... SR is about supporting YOU- but there's a catch (there always is )--- ...
)--- ...Advice is what professionals are trained and licensed to give. None of the members on these forums is a professional in the field of addictions, and SoberRecovery as an organization is not licensed to provide health care services.
Originally Posted by freetosmile
.... We will not sugar coat it, we will not minimize it, we will not downplay it, or however you want to say it.....
You cannot see if your particular "flavor" of "sugar-free" is triggering that other person because they just got beat up by their alcoholic, who happens to use the exact same technique of " not sugar coat it, we will not minimize it, we will not downplay it" when bullying their victim.
The "catch" is that if you are going to deliver the "sugar-free" version you have to figure out how to do it without appearing like just another bullying alcoholic. As a general rule, the worse a person has been abused by a "sugar-free" alcoholic the more likely they are to mis-interpret your text on the screen.
Originally Posted by freetosmile
.... if you choose NOT to heed our advice- we will not shun you.....
However, _you_ will get a polite reminder from me to the effect that you are not a professional and you have no business giving advice. After all, if anybody here on SR is really that wonderful and knowledgeable about alcoholism... they would not be on SR to begin with.
If people want to give advice, SR is not the place. Go get a degree, a license, and setup your practice. The people who run SR _have_ the degrees, have decades of experience both in mental health services _and_ the strange world of internet forums. That is where these rules come from, they're not just made up.
What SoberRecovery is supposed to be is a community of _peers_ who share experience, strength and hope with each other in order to overcome the hardships of alcoholism. _Not_ advice, _not_ "sugar-free" bullying.
Originally Posted by freetosmile
.... you sugar coat and someone gets hurt. Period. End of story....
Originally Posted by freetosmile
.... We will not sugar coat it, we will not minimize it, we will not downplay it....
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ease-read.html
Am I making sense with all this? It's hard to explain kindness and compassion with just text on a screen.
Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
ok I just re read your post. For some reason I mistook it personally like you did not want double winners or people with a more direct style of communication to post here.Re reading your post I see it is not the case
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Dessert eyes and carlotta,
I appreciate your perspective on what free said. I do not want you to be offended by what i post. I acknowledge myself as sick as the a in my Life. It has been very powerful for me to see other "victims" like myself, trying to rebuild. I do see that we do come across not always as compassionate as we should. For that I own, and apologize.
You have no idea the hell some of us have lived through. Go and read frees first thread here and see where she is right now. I am not saying this way is for everyone, but it has saved my life with the tough talk on this forum. i have reached out to a's and they talk the talk also. Tough love!!
Not sure what your past was, but I needed to realize in my life, that I was going no where living with an addict for 34 years. I needed the straight talk that was discussed in these walls. So I guess in my opinion, if it was warm and fuzzy all the time, I would have never made the changes I needed to, to move on in my life.
I am truly grateful for the good, bad and ugly comments that I have received. I have grown from them all.
I appreciate your perspective on what free said. I do not want you to be offended by what i post. I acknowledge myself as sick as the a in my Life. It has been very powerful for me to see other "victims" like myself, trying to rebuild. I do see that we do come across not always as compassionate as we should. For that I own, and apologize.
You have no idea the hell some of us have lived through. Go and read frees first thread here and see where she is right now. I am not saying this way is for everyone, but it has saved my life with the tough talk on this forum. i have reached out to a's and they talk the talk also. Tough love!!
Not sure what your past was, but I needed to realize in my life, that I was going no where living with an addict for 34 years. I needed the straight talk that was discussed in these walls. So I guess in my opinion, if it was warm and fuzzy all the time, I would have never made the changes I needed to, to move on in my life.
I am truly grateful for the good, bad and ugly comments that I have received. I have grown from them all.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
What SR is to me.............
I was already divorced when I came here, but I remember not really having anyone to talk to while I was going through an abusive relationship. I had isolated myself. I didn't know who I could talk to, I was afraid of everyone. It was like, you made your bed, now lie in it, or if you really can't take it, then get the h#ll out. People didn't understand. I was too embarrassed to talk to anyone. Even going out to get my mail was like I had to sneak out, because I didn't want neighbors to even see me. I didn't want them to tell me how stupid I was to stay in the situation that I was in.
I needed help, but didn't know what to do.
That's what this forum is about. It's about giving hope to another person. It's about sharing experiences. It's about letting another know that they are not alone. It's about trust. It's about letting another person work on their own timeline. It's about giving validation and support. It's about offering alternatives and giving support numbers to call. It's about trying to sense out where a person might be at the time, and to try to go from there. It's about knowing sometimes when to back off.
It's about encouraging another person, and giving hooray's for whatever steps they take. It's about validation.
This is why I love SR.
((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))
amy
I was already divorced when I came here, but I remember not really having anyone to talk to while I was going through an abusive relationship. I had isolated myself. I didn't know who I could talk to, I was afraid of everyone. It was like, you made your bed, now lie in it, or if you really can't take it, then get the h#ll out. People didn't understand. I was too embarrassed to talk to anyone. Even going out to get my mail was like I had to sneak out, because I didn't want neighbors to even see me. I didn't want them to tell me how stupid I was to stay in the situation that I was in.
I needed help, but didn't know what to do.
That's what this forum is about. It's about giving hope to another person. It's about sharing experiences. It's about letting another know that they are not alone. It's about trust. It's about letting another person work on their own timeline. It's about giving validation and support. It's about offering alternatives and giving support numbers to call. It's about trying to sense out where a person might be at the time, and to try to go from there. It's about knowing sometimes when to back off.
It's about encouraging another person, and giving hooray's for whatever steps they take. It's about validation.
This is why I love SR.
((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))
amy
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Originally Posted by DesertEyes
Actually, the catch is that "support" is _not_ "advice".
Advice is what professionals are trained and licensed to give. None of the members on these forums is a professional in the field of addictions, and SoberRecovery as an organization is not licensed to provide health care services.
You forgot one aspect to communication without personal interaction. When you write text on the screen you have no way of measuring how your words are being received. You cannot tell if the other person is offended or frightened.
You cannot see if your particular "flavor" of "sugar-free" is triggering that other person because they just got beat up by their alcoholic, who happens to use the exact same technique of " not sugar coat it, we will not minimize it, we will not downplay it" when bullying their victim.
The "catch" is that if you are going to deliver the "sugar-free" version you have to figure out how to do it without appearing like just another bullying alcoholic. As a general rule, the worse a person has been abused by a "sugar-free" alcoholic the more likely they are to mis-interpret your text on the screen.
No, we will not shun anybody.
However, _you_ will get a polite reminder from me to the effect that you are not a professional and you have no business giving advice. After all, if anybody here on SR is really that wonderful and knowledgeable about alcoholism... they would not be on SR to begin with.
If people want to give advice, SR is not the place. Go get a degree, a license, and setup your practice. The people who run SR _have_ the degrees, have decades of experience both in mental health services _and_ the strange world of internet forums. That is where these rules come from, they're not just made up.
What SoberRecovery is supposed to be is a community of _peers_ who share experience, strength and hope with each other in order to overcome the hardships of alcoholism. _Not_ advice, _not_ "sugar-free" bullying.
well.... not always. If you forget the kindness and compassion part then people die, never mind getting hurt. I know, I'm the one that goes to the funerals in real life. A lot of these victims _tried_ to get help, but for whatever reason did not feel safe enough with whoever they asked for help. Kindness and compassion makes people feel safe, something they do _not_ get when living with an alcoholic. "Sugar-free"? Oh, any alchoholic can dispense that by the shovel-full.
No worries. If you add enough compassion and kindness to your "recipe" it will work out just fine. If you mess up then us Moderators will get a flood of PM's and I will stop by and remind people to back off, take a walk, breathe some air. Sometimes I might even remind people to go read the sticky posts at the top where there are long and wise discussions on this subject:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ease-read.html
Am I making sense with all this? It's hard to explain kindness and compassion with just text on a screen.
Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery
Advice is what professionals are trained and licensed to give. None of the members on these forums is a professional in the field of addictions, and SoberRecovery as an organization is not licensed to provide health care services.
You forgot one aspect to communication without personal interaction. When you write text on the screen you have no way of measuring how your words are being received. You cannot tell if the other person is offended or frightened.
You cannot see if your particular "flavor" of "sugar-free" is triggering that other person because they just got beat up by their alcoholic, who happens to use the exact same technique of " not sugar coat it, we will not minimize it, we will not downplay it" when bullying their victim.
The "catch" is that if you are going to deliver the "sugar-free" version you have to figure out how to do it without appearing like just another bullying alcoholic. As a general rule, the worse a person has been abused by a "sugar-free" alcoholic the more likely they are to mis-interpret your text on the screen.
No, we will not shun anybody.
However, _you_ will get a polite reminder from me to the effect that you are not a professional and you have no business giving advice. After all, if anybody here on SR is really that wonderful and knowledgeable about alcoholism... they would not be on SR to begin with.
If people want to give advice, SR is not the place. Go get a degree, a license, and setup your practice. The people who run SR _have_ the degrees, have decades of experience both in mental health services _and_ the strange world of internet forums. That is where these rules come from, they're not just made up.
What SoberRecovery is supposed to be is a community of _peers_ who share experience, strength and hope with each other in order to overcome the hardships of alcoholism. _Not_ advice, _not_ "sugar-free" bullying.
well.... not always. If you forget the kindness and compassion part then people die, never mind getting hurt. I know, I'm the one that goes to the funerals in real life. A lot of these victims _tried_ to get help, but for whatever reason did not feel safe enough with whoever they asked for help. Kindness and compassion makes people feel safe, something they do _not_ get when living with an alcoholic. "Sugar-free"? Oh, any alchoholic can dispense that by the shovel-full.
No worries. If you add enough compassion and kindness to your "recipe" it will work out just fine. If you mess up then us Moderators will get a flood of PM's and I will stop by and remind people to back off, take a walk, breathe some air. Sometimes I might even remind people to go read the sticky posts at the top where there are long and wise discussions on this subject:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ease-read.html
Am I making sense with all this? It's hard to explain kindness and compassion with just text on a screen.
Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery
OK-- let me re-phrase---
what SR is to ME----
Obviously, I didn't mean advice professionally--- but I would dare to pose the question- how many times is the WORD advice used in our posts? Quite a lot.
I didn't mean "cruel" by not sugar-coating.
I am not an adminstrator- I am not a a forum leader, I am a NOTHING---and I wasn't pretending to be a something. I was just sharing a feeling. No offense intended and I wasn't trying to make an official SR statement.....my bad.
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It was probably a mistake to post this thread- as it seems maybe the wrong idea was given off.
I was just trying to say something that hit me profoundly about the love of friends. Friends who could be standing in line next to me at a fast food joint and not even know that they knew every intimate detail about me. Friends that don't mind holding me accountable and helping me remove the rose colored glasses.
I have never tried to imply that SR is a place of brutal cruelty. I understand that as you get to know someone, you begin to get a feel for whether they are the type to need a soft gentle voice, a logical voice, a humorous voice, or a tough love voice. Then you use that voice accordingly. But I do think that sugar-coating ends with people getting hurt. That is my honest opinion.
I never found courage to change with my rose colored glasses on.
It was a mistake to post this and I apologize...I don't know how to request that it be taken down...but if any higher ups are out there, please remove it.
I feel like the whole point of my post- which is SR is a great support- has been discredited and told I was wrong. Hurts my feelers and kind of ticks me off.
I was just trying to say something that hit me profoundly about the love of friends. Friends who could be standing in line next to me at a fast food joint and not even know that they knew every intimate detail about me. Friends that don't mind holding me accountable and helping me remove the rose colored glasses.
I have never tried to imply that SR is a place of brutal cruelty. I understand that as you get to know someone, you begin to get a feel for whether they are the type to need a soft gentle voice, a logical voice, a humorous voice, or a tough love voice. Then you use that voice accordingly. But I do think that sugar-coating ends with people getting hurt. That is my honest opinion.
I never found courage to change with my rose colored glasses on.
It was a mistake to post this and I apologize...I don't know how to request that it be taken down...but if any higher ups are out there, please remove it.
I feel like the whole point of my post- which is SR is a great support- has been discredited and told I was wrong. Hurts my feelers and kind of ticks me off.
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by freetosmile
It was probably a mistake to post this thread- as it seems maybe the wrong idea was given off.
I loved your post and appreictaed the message. You all here have helped me out in my times of need with your support and i am truly grateful for that!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
Hey free,
I understood everything that you said. I remember when you first came here. I was actually afraid that you would leave over the pants thing. I'm so happy that you stayed. Some people might have left because of that. So yes, this is your recovery. I am so proud of how far you have come, and how much of your life your have taken back so quickly. I think you were ready for the change and you needed that change.
I also read the post that you write to other people. You do use your judgement for what point they are at. You have that compassion. You remember how you felt. That's the stuff we need here.
Again, did I tell you how much I luv ya today? You are doing terrific.
((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))
amy
I understood everything that you said. I remember when you first came here. I was actually afraid that you would leave over the pants thing. I'm so happy that you stayed. Some people might have left because of that. So yes, this is your recovery. I am so proud of how far you have come, and how much of your life your have taken back so quickly. I think you were ready for the change and you needed that change.
I also read the post that you write to other people. You do use your judgement for what point they are at. You have that compassion. You remember how you felt. That's the stuff we need here.
Again, did I tell you how much I luv ya today? You are doing terrific.
((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))
amy
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
Whoa, Nelly.
I think Mike is just trying to correct a few technicalities since this is the thread at the top of the forum and it's slightly technically inaccurate.
Amy55 has actually started a few topics about how some people, especially those who are physically abused, don't necessarily respond well with blunt, non-sugary advice. Me, personally, I tend to get ticked off when people are blunt with me. But I can imagine that if someone bigger and stronger than me was making me feel so small in real life that I wanted to disappear, then yeah, I would probably need kindness and lots of gentle words rather than non-sugar coated stuff (this is synonymous with blunt, to me).
I get that what works best for YOU is the non-sguar coated stuff but I think like you already stated, the key phrase missing is: What SR is to ME.
I'm glad that you're finding lots of support here. I'm glad that you are expressing it. I'm really glad that you keep coming back to learn more and to receive support and to share your experiences with others. Your story will inspire others, like the stories of so many other members here. For me, that's what SR is about.
I think Mike is just trying to correct a few technicalities since this is the thread at the top of the forum and it's slightly technically inaccurate.
Amy55 has actually started a few topics about how some people, especially those who are physically abused, don't necessarily respond well with blunt, non-sugary advice. Me, personally, I tend to get ticked off when people are blunt with me. But I can imagine that if someone bigger and stronger than me was making me feel so small in real life that I wanted to disappear, then yeah, I would probably need kindness and lots of gentle words rather than non-sugar coated stuff (this is synonymous with blunt, to me).
I get that what works best for YOU is the non-sguar coated stuff but I think like you already stated, the key phrase missing is: What SR is to ME.
I'm glad that you're finding lots of support here. I'm glad that you are expressing it. I'm really glad that you keep coming back to learn more and to receive support and to share your experiences with others. Your story will inspire others, like the stories of so many other members here. For me, that's what SR is about.
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
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Niki
I really liked your post and what I like especially even more is that you are finding your own voice and that you also take time even though you are yourself in crisis to post on others threads and try to reach out to those newer than you.
I completely understood your post: If I could summarize what I got from it is that you love SR because it is a place where people will love you until you love yourself and will not blow sunshine up your butt.
I am a DV survivor myself and I know that for me, I had to take a cold look at myself and also reach and find my inner strength. I did not need to be babyed, I needed to be empowered and understood
When I need someone to cosign my self pity and stuff, I got my BFF. She s amazing, I could rob a bank and she'd probably tell me that they needed robbing
. When I need a mirror held up to my face and recovery, I reach out (or at least I try to, still difficult sometimes) to people in recovery.
I really liked your post and what I like especially even more is that you are finding your own voice and that you also take time even though you are yourself in crisis to post on others threads and try to reach out to those newer than you.
I completely understood your post: If I could summarize what I got from it is that you love SR because it is a place where people will love you until you love yourself and will not blow sunshine up your butt.
I am a DV survivor myself and I know that for me, I had to take a cold look at myself and also reach and find my inner strength. I did not need to be babyed, I needed to be empowered and understood
When I need someone to cosign my self pity and stuff, I got my BFF. She s amazing, I could rob a bank and she'd probably tell me that they needed robbing
. When I need a mirror held up to my face and recovery, I reach out (or at least I try to, still difficult sometimes) to people in recovery.
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Originally Posted by freetosmile
... It was probably a mistake to post this thread- as it seems maybe the wrong idea was given off. ...
Originally Posted by freetosmile
...I feel like the whole point of my post- which is SR is a great support- has been discredited and told I was wrong. Hurts my feelers and kind of ticks me off. ...
So, my apologies for hurting your feelings and ticking you off. That was _not_ my intention.
Originally Posted by freetosmile
... I understand that as you get to know someone, you begin to get a feel for...
...and then they go away and decide that they better not ask for help again because they are going to get jumped on. It's this second part that is the problem.
In any case, my apologies again for hurting your feelings, and please do post your opinion any time you want. If you accidentally hurt anybody's feelings they will let me know in a PM and I will see what I can do to un-ruffle feathers.
Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery
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Hugs..I understand what you are saying. I love this place too and shutter to think where I might be if it wasn't for the experience shared in this safe place. Though I'm still growing and always will be, I would be light years behind where I am now w/o SR.
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Originally Posted by freetosmile
I am not an administrator- I am not a a forum leader, I am a NOTHING---and I wasn't pretending to be a something.
Giant hugs for starting (and staying in!) this thread.
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