Hammer

Maybe so, maybe no.

But if you start screwing with HIM and fail to take care of YOU the whole house comes down.

Dunno if you were looking for advice, or endorsement to screw around with hubby, or what (all fine, btw) but if you do want some advice . . . .

I used to be a Range Officer (Weapons training, US Army). Every time, every day we would chant >>>


Watch YOUR Lane and YOUR Target.

Worked in that world and this one, too.

seek

It also says no one "caused" it - which from my perspective is not completely true. Many people have severe traumas that were caused by other people - and those traumas may have driven them to seek relief through alcohol or other drugs.

Not all of the AA and Alanon sayings are useful: "Take what you like and leave the rest."

Hammer

You may not follow that is not really what it says?

the three C's are:

YOU (the Alanon person) did not Cause, Cure, or Control it.

Follow the difference?

We (Alanon types) often hear from a Practicing A that *we* somehow caused their addictions, problems, etc.

Dunno if you follow that many A's cannot or do not want to take self-responsibility and will lie to themselves, us, and others that *we* some how cause *their* problems.

Dunno if you have my version of the experience? For those who may benefit . . .

[Sitting in an Alanon room, all older women, except me, me looking at my shoe tips, taking a big breath so I can do this without crying]

Hammer: "What do you do when they tell you it is your fault?"

Rest of Room -- All stops. Looks at me. And then just start laughing and laughing.

I look up and am staring around the room with my lips quivering.

One sees that and stops laughing, and she says:

"OH HONEY! WE HAVE ALL HEARD THAT, TOO!

And then they all went back to laughing.

I did not know what to do, so I laughed some, too.

THAT day, I started laughing some.

And started to get a little bit better.

Triple C.

airwick

JB- I totally hear where you are coming from. I quite drinking because I didn't want my son to become affected by being around alcohol. So, HE got me to quit! Then I put the shoe on the other foot....it was ME who decided to ultimately quit

I really don't care how I got to this point, who got me here, what keeps me here.....I'm just happy that I am here

seek

I don't know if you know it, but not all people who go to Alanon are in voluntary relationships with alcoholics. Some are parents and other relatives - and some of those parents or other relatives, may indeed have helped "cause" it . . .

honeypig

seek, there are some people here in F&F who have horrific stories of abuse and trauma to tell, yet they did not become alcoholics. Alcoholism is one possible response to trauma, yes, but alcoholism can be a response to a happy and privileged life, too. I think it's not correct to say that trauma is the cause of alcoholism, nor correct to say that the person who was the source of the trauma caused the alcoholism.

LexieCat

Someone who never drinks is unlikely to ever become an identified alcoholic. So to the extent consumption of alcohol may bring that out, I suppose it could be considered a contributing factor. But as Honeypig points out, many people drink heavily, either habitually or situationally, and never become alcoholics.

Nobody KNOWS what causes alcoholism, but some people develop it and others who drink the same amounts never do.

NYCDoglvr

They expressed their concern about your drinking so YOU decided to stop drinking. You could have just as easily decided to continue drinking and they would have been powerless to stop you. Do you see the difference?

redatlanta

Justbreathe - I agree with you that we can be an influence. The influence comes from halting co-dependent and enabling behaviors. We don't cause someone to drink, but we can perpetuate it by cleaning up their messes and making everything ok.

By stopping that behavior and allowing the A to be accountable for their behavior - sometimes a moment of clarity is achieved and the A may decide to seek treatment. OR they may decide to keep on keeping on, replace the codependent or find another enabler. Its a crap shoot.

Of course we all hope our A will seek recovery. If not, halting our codependency and enabling allows us to decide for better and happier lives for ourselves.

Hammer

ahhhh. Okay.

I think I know what you mean.

MIL for example -- Mrs. Hammer's mother, as it were.

Absolutely Horrid Raging Case of Codependency.

She now actively tries to screw over our kids the way she did Mrs. Hammer.

I suppose in part because of and to validate the way she screwed up Mrs. Hammer. Go figure, huh?

BUT, I have invited her (more than) several time to Alanon.

Absolutely Refuses.

Mrs. Hammer suggested MIL go to Alanon YEARS ago (before Mrs. Hammer's relapse).

Not Interested.

Here is what I am thinking -- you are correct -- that messed up people can mess up other people . . . but not many of them go to Alanon, let alone work the program.

seek

I personally don't think "alcoholism can be a response to a happy and privileged life." Privileged, yes - I don't think that has any bearing, but happy and healthy, no.

I am of the school that alcoholism is usually a way to medicate pain caused by unhealed traumas.

LexieCat

I had ZERO traumas in my life (at least until adulthood, and even those were not all that dramatic). Seriously, my family was just like "Leave it to Beaver." No dysfunction, no substance abuse, no mental illness, no abuse. I'm the only one who became an alcoholic (and a cigarette smoker). My brother doesn't drink or smoke.

I have a certain tendency toward addiction, that probably is just the way my personality works. I also become very attached physically to substances like tobacco, caffeine, and alcohol.

And I'm far from alone. I hear from many people in AA whose stories are similar.

seek

You are the authority on your own experience. Many people cannot recall their pre-birth, early infancy, infancy, toddler, or childhood traumas, though. A lot of stuff can happen to people.

lillamy

I don't think it much matters why a person becomes an addict.
What matters is how a person who is an addict can get out of their addiction.

LexieCat

Good grief.

But thanks for recognizing my "authority" on my own (ill-remembered) experience.

seek

Lexiecat - I did not mean to insult you, just to say that of course you are the authority on you.

I am just saying what my opinion is - in general - on why someone might choose to self-destruct.

I studied psychology and trauma and this is just my conclusion about the genesis for many people.

seek

I do think it matters WHY someone becomes an addict - at least to that someone.

They have to figure it out for themselves (or not) . . . many times it is due to unresolved, unhealed traumas - alcohol or drugs are used to self-medicate.

I don't think this is news.

It is okay for people to have different ideas on the subject.

We don't all have to agree about everything.

Hangnbyathread

I completely believe and support the notion that some people are genetically per-disposed to addictive behaviors. Alcohol (or whatever) physiologically affects them differently than it does non genetically susceptible people.

Yes it has to be introduced at some point and circumstance, but once done the paths are different for different people.

Doesn't mean they can't stop, it just means they have to work harder at it since their DNA WANTS them to have it.

I can drink to drink. And that is that. If I don't drink for 6 months later, I feel nothing towards it.

An addiction is fed off of GETTING what you CRAVE. You can't rest til you get it.

dandylion

We can contemplate all day about how the cow ate the cabbage....but, when all is said and done, the fact remains that the cabbage has been eaten....and how to deal with that fact, going forward.

dandylion

***spent my early childhood on a farm.

hopeful4

You are one of the few with a high bottom, in that your concern for them was put in front of your addiction. It does not happen that way very often. I don't know anyone on this forum who has not done every single thing in their power (including beg and plead) to get their loved ones sober.

Congrats on your sobriety, that is a great thing.