No Contact is Great - But does there come a time when you should respond?
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Oh he's been nasty for years but he was always so good at being sorry. I didn't post the entire letter because alot of it was blah blah blah but that is what kept me around - the heartfelt apologies. This one isn't the best example but he was good at being sorry. I would almost rather him continue to be nasty..
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atalose, because I feel like... Maybe I'm thinking I will see "that person" again when we first met, not that we will get back together, I'm not thinking that. But I would recognize the person that I was SO sure was my forever.
If we have "that conversation" and I get "that apology" - the whole thing won't be for nothing.
Until then, it was for nothing. The whole thing was for nothing. And it hurts to think that could be a possibility. If I get the normal person apology someday, it will make something about loving him real.
Wow I'm getting big tears in my eyes right now.
If we have "that conversation" and I get "that apology" - the whole thing won't be for nothing.
Until then, it was for nothing. The whole thing was for nothing. And it hurts to think that could be a possibility. If I get the normal person apology someday, it will make something about loving him real.
Wow I'm getting big tears in my eyes right now.
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Originally Posted by meggem 
How can you call the cops and say "he sent me 4 paragraph apology that was pretty much insincere - go arrest him" ?
If it is included then just call them and tell them he violated a restraining order.
If you are not sure, just forward your email to your lawyer and let them handle it.
My ex got arrested for leaving me a voice mail because my restraining order included verbal and written communication including phone calls.
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I wasn't "demanding" an answer, and I'm sorry if I came off that way. I honestly wanted to know--this is what I do for a living, deal with this kind of thing, and I like to know why people who have orders are reluctant to enforce them.
This letter has nothing to do with your trying to make arrangements to bring home a sick child. If the email had been strictly confined to that issue, making arrangements, etc., I would agree that you would WANT and NEED that kind of limited communication. This email, though, is pure manipulation, and his intention is clear when you say he initially agreed to bring home the child if you dropped the PFA. That isn't OK.
I'm just concerned because these things do tend to escalate, and any incidents that are allowed to slide tend to encourage and embolden the abuser.
So just keep that in mind, and even if you don't report this, don't feel that you can't report the next one because you let this one slide, OK? I'm honestly concerned for your safety and peace. We all are.
Hugs,
This letter has nothing to do with your trying to make arrangements to bring home a sick child. If the email had been strictly confined to that issue, making arrangements, etc., I would agree that you would WANT and NEED that kind of limited communication. This email, though, is pure manipulation, and his intention is clear when you say he initially agreed to bring home the child if you dropped the PFA. That isn't OK.
I'm just concerned because these things do tend to escalate, and any incidents that are allowed to slide tend to encourage and embolden the abuser.
So just keep that in mind, and even if you don't report this, don't feel that you can't report the next one because you let this one slide, OK? I'm honestly concerned for your safety and peace. We all are.
Hugs,
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Incidentally, I have prosecuted people for sending flowers, greeting cards, gifts. It is a clear-cut violation, and I don't care HOW sincere it looks or is. The order is the order is the order.
The ONLY exception I would make is where the communication is limited strictly to the well-being of the child, and where it's enough of an "emergency" that it cannot be addressed in any other way (call to report child sick, going to hospital, etc.).
The ONLY exception I would make is where the communication is limited strictly to the well-being of the child, and where it's enough of an "emergency" that it cannot be addressed in any other way (call to report child sick, going to hospital, etc.).
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thats true Lexie - it is a violation - unwanted affection.. it could be construed as harrassment/stalking and he knows he is violating because he states several times that he knows he is taking "a great risk...."
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No, don't worry about your actions--you were being a concerned mom, not trying to start anything. You are not at fault in any way.
You just need to understand that the violation is the CONTACT. It doesn't prohibit "contact with bad intent," it prohibits ANY contact. And the reason for that is that it starts off innocently (but insidiously) enough that before you know it, it's the same old abuse. The order keeps a lid on it before it gets to that point. But it's only as good as your willingness to report violations.
You just need to understand that the violation is the CONTACT. It doesn't prohibit "contact with bad intent," it prohibits ANY contact. And the reason for that is that it starts off innocently (but insidiously) enough that before you know it, it's the same old abuse. The order keeps a lid on it before it gets to that point. But it's only as good as your willingness to report violations.
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Originally Posted by meggem
I should have just responded "ok keep me posted and let me know if you think she should come home" Like Sungrl said.
I should never have CALLED him desperate for him to allow her to come home. ugh
I should never have CALLED him desperate for him to allow her to come home. ugh
It gets much easier.
Also know that for me, there came a time - finally, when I could accept that his reality was different than mine. I will never get validation or understanding from him and I'm sincerely OK with that. It no longer matters and I am at peace with it. He is the same person I married - yet changed by alcoholism. I am the same person - also changed. That is the way life goes. I no longer see our life together as a waste or not real. That was my life too - I lived it for 16 years. All those moments. My memories and experiences and feelings during that time are real and valid and true. My fantasy changed, not my reality. Living in that space where my fantasy did not match my reality was really a bad time but now? This is a good place to be.
Hang in there.
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#1 Because I feel bad for him (after that letter)
If you don't enforce the first violation, there will be another (bigger) one.
If you don't tell him "enough" -- he will assume the PFA is just a piece of paper that he can ignore.
That's been my experience.
Don't feel sorry for him. You have objective evidence (PFA) that he is dangerous to you.
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Whenever people on this forum post texts or emails from their As, it just blows my mind how SIMILAR their words and tactics are! Seriously, my XAH could have written that message. The manipulation, accusations, blaming, digs, immaturity, sheer contempt... Here's my question...
Is this an alcoholic/addict thing or a personality disorder thing? Which came first? The addiction or the personality? Does one lead to the other? Is real recovery even possible for them?
Is this an alcoholic/addict thing or a personality disorder thing? Which came first? The addiction or the personality? Does one lead to the other? Is real recovery even possible for them?
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I am to the point it does not matter what came first, just that the outcome is the same. I don't think anyone with both can recover. I also don't think that is a reason to stay with them and be miserable.
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I am to the point it does not matter what came first, just that the outcome is the same. I don't think anyone with both can recover. I also don't think that is a reason to stay with them and be miserable.
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Originally Posted by meggem
what kind of message was it Carlotta?
you and I need to talk
Now that's the man who had just recently punched me in the face and sent me tumbling down the stairs (I was on top of the stairs trying to get out when he punched me). There was nothing left to talk about!
After that, I never heard again from him until recently when I found out that he had died from alcoholism.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
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This happened 12 years ago, I had to pressure the cops into calling the night judge so I would get a TRO (they did not want to do anything) I also had to pressure them into calling the paramedics to look at my black eye (they said it was just a black eye and I was adamant to get checked to make sure it was not a concussion)
Then I represented myself in court...I had no lawyer and no victim advocate!!! and English is not my first language.
Thank goodness both judges were awesome (the one for the TRO and the one for the permanent one) and granted me the orders and his lawyer did not instigate anything.
I had struggled for that little piece of paper and my freedom and I was not about to cut him a break or try to make "things work". That was it for me, the abuse was over (he was an verbally, mentally and physically abusive drunk.)
My point is that you have won your freedom, stick to your boundaries and don't go back into the wolf's trap no matter how innocuous his entreaties sound.
Then I represented myself in court...I had no lawyer and no victim advocate!!! and English is not my first language.
Thank goodness both judges were awesome (the one for the TRO and the one for the permanent one) and granted me the orders and his lawyer did not instigate anything.
I had struggled for that little piece of paper and my freedom and I was not about to cut him a break or try to make "things work". That was it for me, the abuse was over (he was an verbally, mentally and physically abusive drunk.)
My point is that you have won your freedom, stick to your boundaries and don't go back into the wolf's trap no matter how innocuous his entreaties sound.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Carlotta, I'm glad the judges listened, and I'm sorry the police weren't more responsive. We work all the time on training them regarding medical exams/treatment, too. I think for the most part it's getting better but there is still a lot of educating that needs to happen (keeps me employed, unfortunately).
I'm so glad you got out safely. It's unfortunate when so much burden is placed on the people who are supposed to be helped.
I'm so glad you got out safely. It's unfortunate when so much burden is placed on the people who are supposed to be helped.
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Meggem what you had in the beginning with him was real. Addiction changes people and relationships.
when I first met my ex he was 3 years clean and sober and his recovery was his whole world. I had never had a male figure in life seek help let alone admit they needed help. That's the guy I fell in love with, the honest, committed and dedicated recovering addict.
4 years into our relationship he had a relapse, he became a person I didn't even know or like. I left and he jumped back into his recovery, went to rehab, did a step down program, meetings and a new sponsor. I went back believing it would be like it was in the begining, things were good but never the same. He never did reach that intense level of commitment to his recovery and our relationship never thrived.
I kept waiting for that person I fell in love with to come back. Often I would see signs of that person but that part of him never stayed around for long.
It took me making that kind of commitment to my own recovery and myself to finally leave. The more I understood addiction the less personal I took his actions. I accepted he wasn't doing it to me, he was just doing what addicts do.
I became emotionally strong enough not to buy into the manipulations and sadly didn't witness any of the things he claimed he'd do.
We reach a point where acceptance over shadows are hope. Reality sets in and we learn to let go of what was and accept what is.
Unforunately you have to deal with him as you share a child together, but you can and will figure out how to tune out all the bla bla bla crap and just focus on issues regarding the child.
Example, when he sent you the text asking how she was feeling and if you received his email. You simply could have replied, she is feeling better. If he pushed further about the email, that's when you ignore it.
We teach people how to treat us and if you commit to detaching emotionally and making a firm commitment you will not go back because his words sound nice and he's saying sweet things he will eventually learn to stop bothering you and only communicate about your child. But you are the one that needs to lead this dance and stand your ground.
when I first met my ex he was 3 years clean and sober and his recovery was his whole world. I had never had a male figure in life seek help let alone admit they needed help. That's the guy I fell in love with, the honest, committed and dedicated recovering addict.
4 years into our relationship he had a relapse, he became a person I didn't even know or like. I left and he jumped back into his recovery, went to rehab, did a step down program, meetings and a new sponsor. I went back believing it would be like it was in the begining, things were good but never the same. He never did reach that intense level of commitment to his recovery and our relationship never thrived.
I kept waiting for that person I fell in love with to come back. Often I would see signs of that person but that part of him never stayed around for long.
It took me making that kind of commitment to my own recovery and myself to finally leave. The more I understood addiction the less personal I took his actions. I accepted he wasn't doing it to me, he was just doing what addicts do.
I became emotionally strong enough not to buy into the manipulations and sadly didn't witness any of the things he claimed he'd do.
We reach a point where acceptance over shadows are hope. Reality sets in and we learn to let go of what was and accept what is.
Unforunately you have to deal with him as you share a child together, but you can and will figure out how to tune out all the bla bla bla crap and just focus on issues regarding the child.
Example, when he sent you the text asking how she was feeling and if you received his email. You simply could have replied, she is feeling better. If he pushed further about the email, that's when you ignore it.
We teach people how to treat us and if you commit to detaching emotionally and making a firm commitment you will not go back because his words sound nice and he's saying sweet things he will eventually learn to stop bothering you and only communicate about your child. But you are the one that needs to lead this dance and stand your ground.
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