AnvilheadII

may I ask how often he is drinking these days?

MissFixit

I understand. Ultimately, you need to make the choice that is best for you and the girls with the reality of your current situation not how things might be in the future. That is hard especially when you love someone and do not want to be without him.

I heard the suicide threats too. Many of them. It was the ex's go to retort when I wasn't doing what he wanted. I remember being scared at first and as the years progressed and the threats increased, I became indifferent. Don't be like me!

Stung

He started drinking on the 29th of October, had his last drink on the 6th. Before that his last drink was 2 days before in-patient rehab in late August. Then a mini relapse in July and June. He was sober from late Jan to the end of May. He relapsed the day before our wedding anniversary.

I'm not trying to discredit all of the major (MAJOR!) progress that he has made. He's had significantly more sober days than drinking days this year and the largest spans of sober days since he started drinking when he was 14 or 15 years old.

AnvilheadII

mini relapse. that sounds almost....cute. I realize that is not your intent!!! but here's the thing....drinking is.......drinking. feeding the beast. rehab didn't fix him. he was given a lot of recovery tools, he's not using them to his full advantage. when he did choose to drink again, he did so with a sober mind.

i'm so sorry for all this stung. you've been a trooper. I don't think you are really in denial....I just don't think you are ready to pull the plug. you choose to believe. I hope he comes to his senses and begins to be who you believe he is.........but know that may not happen.

I cant begin to fathom what I would do if hank choose to get some dope. it's been 8 years now....recall I was a crack addict as well....no pipes, no straws, no powder, no rock. to this day I have never seen anything light him up in the way that crack did....not fishing, not sex, not even the Packers winning the Superbowl. he had to learn that there was no way to replace that insane high.....and be ok with it. he'd been a coke/crack addict for 20 years....I don't KNOW what the one thing was that clicked for him....or even if there was one. in fact, I've never asked.......I don't even know what the thing was for ME....I just know that one day I didn't think it was possible to be DONE and the next day I knew I was never going to use again. and it came from the INSIDE. no particular consequence, no health scare, no arrest, no drug deal gone bad.

but here is the one thing I know for sure about recovery.....RECOVERY LOOKS LIKE RECOVERY. USING LOOKS LIKE USING.

Hammer

.

Ahhh, we have 12 Step lingo-fu.

But really not, just letting you know what I am seeing. Such is the nature of Blind Spots.

But back to Lingo-fu.

Your Inventory? THAT would be your 4th Step, and it does not look like anyone is working on that.

You know I am just having fun with you -- but a caution from someone who started feeling better and fell off the program a few years back . . . when I was just about where you are -- DO NOT WORRY about HIS Relapse.

You can relapse in Alanon, as well. Stay on Your Program and Your Course, or you may find yourself with all the problems you need to stay on your own.

But this is all your path and your life -- you will figure all this out.

Wishing all the best to you.

Stung

Anvil, thank you and honestly the answer to "how much is he drinking these days?" is TOO MUCH for me!

I'm going to keep thinking about divorce, maybe meditate on it and see where I find myself.

Hammer, But really not, just letting you know what I am seeing. That is you telling me about me. Just because you want to call it "checking my blind spots" instead of "taking my inventory" doesn't change the nature of what you're doing. Where does it say that we promptly admitted that we were wrong? You're wrong here, friend.

CodeJob

Reread your first post in this thread Stung. When I reread it I see impatience with recovery's pace - yours and his.

Due to your economic situation, the big D is a slightly easier option for you. Others on this board leave with nothing. Your kids are so small they are probably accustomed now to not having dad living in the home. You are used to handling most things solo.

I might have missed some details but your H lives out of the home, blows to show he's sober when he visits, has started AA, personal therapist?, marriage counseling, switched sponsors?, did an outpatient and inpatient rehab too? He has also now gone NC with his wackadoodle family. You admit he's had more sober days than not in 2014. Yet that is not enough progress bc he is a d-head and says mean things to you when he is drinking. He probably feels that you have him on a big pass/fail? He busts his a-- and throws all of this at his addiction and still works and you are ready To end the marriage because he was not 100% sober.

Well you know what, you do have the right to divorce - today. I suspect your sponsor is indicating that divorce is final in how your H will perceive it. He will never get back with you bc that action will be taken as you giving up on him. He will move on.

The free Chopra meditation this time is on desire. Are you doing it?

I still suggest do step 4. You have time to see if he pulls it together. You need to stop excel spreadsheeting this process. Early recovery is really like living in a Dali painting.

MissFixit

Hey,

I just re-read this and realized something. He drank in Jan, May, June, July, August, October and November. Not in Sept as he was in rehab. This year the only months he didn't drink (that you know of) are Feb, Mar and Apr.

This isn't my business, but that doesn't sound like recovery. Honestly, that seems like white knuckling it and going through the motions of some getting help without really investing yourself in the programs.

I don't mean to diminish his effort and I know sobriety must be hard for him. However, I see where you are coming from in your original post in this thread.

mry

I often wish that there was a more clear description of what recovery looks like for alcoholics because I now believe it's filled with lots of relapse and attempts. My RAH began recovery after his 3rd DUI. He went to AA and drank. Ha! some recovery attempt, right?! But it really was the beginning. He was sober 9 months of that year and then relapsed off and on for another 6 months. He moved out and relapsed off and on for another year before he entered rehab and has been sober for 14 months. I think knowing that those relapses were all part of his journey helps me to see (in hindsight!) that it's his journey and it's not the journey I expected - it was filled with so many steps backward before he seemed to "get" being sober. Then there was a year of just being sober with no ability to cope, self-centered behaviors and big ego problems. He copes better at 14 months but the other stuff is all still here. He is still a mess. He can keep a job but is so reactive and defensive that just about every conversation that isn't superficial will lead to a conflict. I'm not much better - I've only recently realized that I'm reacting to the issues he brings up and not the feelings. I get so wrapped around the axle about him pushing to move back that I can't stay focused on what he is really saying - he is frustrated with the marriage as well.

I realized this week that I swing back and forth - patient and work on myself vs anxiety and panic and "I need to get out of this marriage." The panic always follows one of those bad conversations/fights and I feel so overwhelmed with single parenthood, getting next to nothing from the marriage, feeling so very tired of it all.

While those feelings of panic and frustration and fear are real, I don't want to make any decisions based on them. I had no idea that I was still just as reactive as he is. I think before I make any decisions about the marriage, I want to get back up on my feet so that if I do decide to end the marriage, that I am able to handle the stress of divorce without getting knocked back down again. We are currently living separate and although it's harder than living with a healthy spouse, it's not harder than living separate, continuing all of the therapy, alanon meetings AND a divorce process on top of it.

I find these two expressions so helpful: the answer to stuck is still and keep your eyes on your own hula hoop. I don't know if any of that helps, Stung.

Florence

This is what it felt like to me too. I didn't want a divorce. I was separated from XAH for almost a year before I filed, and another year before it was final.

It wasn't that I wanted a divorce, it was that I was tired of a) everything revolving around him and what he was capable of, while I took on more and more and more, b) the constant disappointment that came with the repeat relapses, c) the financial burden, d) the emotional unavailability. I was tired of bearing the brunt of his drunken explosions. I was tired of feeling abandoned. I was tired of cleaning up other people's messes.

I was interested in cleaning out the debris. I was interested in making room in my life for more positive people, hobbies, and things. I was very interested in being a better and more engaged mother. My son was suffering. I had suffered. I had a new baby. My XAH was no longer a real priority, especially since he wasn't using the resources he had.

I was sick of dragging dead weight and hearing all the broken promises and half-baked excuses and explanations, and I was real tired of being a dumping ground for his frustration, almost all of which resulted from his own behavior. I didn't respect him anymore. I was getting none of what I wanted in a marriage from the marriage.

So I removed myself from that situation and positioned myself to accept more positive people and things into my life. I stopped calling him as much. I stopped questioning his motives. I shut up and started watching instead of managing him with my stern words and expectations. And over time it became clear that we didn't have a marriage. I was just enabling him with my money and health insurance and sex and continuing to provide him soft places to fall DESPITE the damage it did to me. I had wanted to exhaust my options and give it every shot, for his sake, for my sake, for the family's sake. But nothing I could do really helped. There was no choice, really, it was obvious what I needed to do for me.

It doesn't have to happen overnight. It will happen at your pace. You don't have to make a decision. You don't have to get a divorce. You don't have to do anything.

I wonder about how you're worried about whether or not you/we/whoever gives him "credit" for all of his hard work in recovery. I completely understand where you're coming from -- that's hope talking. But whether or not he's more sober or less sober, it seems like you aren't getting a whole lot out of the arrangement right now. For me, I decided to put the marriage question on hold and put my resources into my own recovery and healing process. It was a good 8-9 months that I focused on me and my comfort and goals and needs. I let go of my fear of failure. I let go of the happy family fantasy. I started looking really hard at the facts. During that time, I let my expectations of my XAH go and just waited to see what happened. The catalyst for me filing was that he got caught drinking again (a small slip he said) and in his panic to APPEAR to be in recovery so the parental gravy train didn't end, he went to rehab again. #4 since we'd been married. He wasn't seeking recovery. He wasn't working on it. He was IMPROVING HIS COVER.

I was beyond done. I was acting as a single parent and full time worker to two kids, and those shenanigans were a total waste of my time and energy.

hopeful4

Oh Stung, I totally understand. Only you can decide how long you want to be vested in a relationship with an alcoholic who may or may not relapse on a regular basis. I don't say that to be hurtful either. Just know whatever you decide, we are here for you and back you up 100%.

Tight hugs my friend. XXX

NYCDoglvr

Sounds like you're judging him. And you have expectations. These two things can really trip us up and keep the focus on the alcoholic instead of our own recovery. It's very hard to reach acceptance, that we're powerless over people, places and things, but it me to pray about it and share in Alanon.

hopeful4

It is completely normal to have expectations of your spouse and father of your child. Just my opinion. It is hard to reach acceptance, and for some, you just cannot. I could not reach acceptance of the things that may happen in the future. It was too much for me. Each person has to decide that for his or her own self, including you Stung.

You have the right to make these decisions in what is best for you and your child.

XXX

SparkleKitty

Not to hijack (and I think what I'm about to observe does or might apply to Stung's situation), but I find this quote really interesting, hopeful, because I believe you absolutely DID accept the things that may happen in the future, and you acted accordingly. You ended your marriage and removed yourself and your kids as much as possible from the direct line of fire of your XAH's active addiction and from as many future consequences as you could. You accepted him for exactly who he is, not who you wished he would be or who he might be further down the road. You accepted that he has the right to live his life however he chooses no matter what you feel about it. And then you did what was best for you. Am I misinterpreting? 'Cuz I thought that was pretty awesome of you.

I let go of my XABF the moment I accepted that he was not interested in not-drinking, and with that acceptance came the understanding that it really didn't have anything to do with me. Stung, I don't know if you're there yet or not. Things seem to be changing frequently, and sometimes one just has had enough of that level of instability. I don't think there's any outside pressure for you to make a decision about Divorce right now, but I understand where your head is at for sure. Sometimes you just want to stop debating whether you're done or not and the easiest way to do that is just decide to be done. As long as Divorce is not being held over your AH's head as a tactic to get him to get serious about sobriety (and I don't believe that is what you're doing), then sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.

hopeful4

Sparkle, thank you. I think I needed to be reminded of that today. I guess what I was trying to say was that there was no way I could have sat back and accepted that my life was always going to be an up and down mess and accept that as my future. That there would be constant relapse and clean times. Rinse and repeat all the time.

I have done everything I know to do, including divorce my X (Thank God)! That has brought me much peace.

I think everyone has to stay on their side of the street. However, when it's your spouse and your child's father, I think everyone has certain expectations they should be responsible for. If they cannot hold up to those things, maybe they should not be in that marriage situation. Just my .02

Thanks again Sparkle for making me see all I have done over this past year.

XXX

Hammer

a+

Stung

Thank you. I started it off with saying that I just don't want to do this cycle anymore and that's genuinely how I feel. This has been the year of the relapse. The year before was the year of secretly rapidly escalating alcoholism and subsequent abuse. I need some kind of change here because I don't like relapse, albeit better than secret alcoholism, but it still blows big time. That's all I'm saying here.

Can he do better than relapsing every few weeks? Not my problem. My struggle is that I really enjoy my family and our marriage in between the relapses but hot damn, I hate the relapse garbage with a passion. And yes, that part of his recovery is about me because at that point I'm forced to change our family dynamics with some pretty severe boundaries. I don't like being the warden.

I feel like I was being labeled as judgey on some of the comments here for a second which is why I was trying to say that I'm not trying to knock his efforts, he has changed for the better but he's STILL drinking. My intent here isn't bash my husband or his recovery, it's to share my own journey. I really don't feel like my OP was about him, although some of my follow up comments did swing that way.

True dat! So here I sit.

Life is meant to be fun. Alcoholism and codependency is the inability to recognize that you get to choose what you want your life to be. Sometimes having a relationship with my husband is fun and less frequently it's pure hell. I'm stuck in a real life version of "Would You Rather?" Would you rather be with an otherwise decent man who turns into a werewolf every few weeks or say screw it and see what's behind door number 2? Thankfully there is no timer here forcing me to make a decision. But if my husband turns into a werewolf one more time I think I'm gonna go with door number 2.

redatlanta

The roller coaster thing gets awfully tiring. Not sure where AH is just not clicking on recovery. With the frequency of relapse I'd guess a strategy of attempted moderation equating to denial of alcoholism. Kinda sounds like he hasn't made step 1.

Ya, sit tight no need to ponder the what ifs. When you get sick and tired of being sick and tired you'll pull the trigger. Hope AH gets on board with it before that.

EmmyG

Wow, Florence. I am SO glad I read this post. You really described what I'm going through.

For nearly a year now, AH has been checked out. He is present for a month, then he drinks again for a week, feels terrible, makes promises, then another bender. I am on my own emotionally and physically separated. I go to work every day. I take care of our boys. When he is around, he is loving and attentive toward them, but then daddy disappears for a week and he can't be counted on. I am still there for him emotionally but he is not there for me and hasn't been in a long time. I can't relax and have fun. It all goes to him. It's not a marriage anymore. Thanks for helping me to think about this in an honest way.

Stung

This pretty much sums it up. At marriage therapy last night he said that this was his second relapse. My eyes bugged out. Exsqueeze me? 2nd relapse?! NOOOOOO! More like 7th!! He considers May to August as one giant relapse. Then he went to rehab and then he relapsed for 10 days. Funny how different our perspectives are, I consider abstaining for a few weeks as sober time and he doesn't. He said that from May on he wanted to quit but he wasn't really trying. This time he wanted to quit and was trying but he became overconfident and thought he could take on a lot more than he was equipped for. It was really interesting to hear him talk to our therapist talk about his addiction, I've never heard anyone (especially not him) talk about it like they were. I left feeling more than a little naive.

I don't understand the inability to abstain from something when the benefits of abstaining are so amazing. For this same reason the people on shows like Biggest Loser always just baffle me. Just stop eating so damn much. Why is that so difficult? Believe me, I love food too but I don't like feeling sick or want to weigh 400+ pounds. I think this is going to be one of those things that I'll never understand because I can't experience it. Like a man asking what it's like to have a baby or feel a baby kicking inside of you. Really hard to describe unless you've experienced it.

In the meantime I'm focusing on just enjoying life and trying really hard to live in the grey area instead of either in the white zone or black zone. My husband relapsed. It only effects me as much as I allow it to. I've been counseled that this is also a ridiculously normal part of recovery.