Stung

I'm thinking about divorce.

I'm not angry. But I don't want to ride on this cycle with my husband anymore, patiently waiting, hoping and wishing for him to humble himself enough to figure out sobriety. The problem with being intelligent and more or less lucky in a professional and educational setting is that when you come to emotional growth the same preparation and success practices don't apply.

I know what I'm talking about because I'm experiencing the same thing on my own recovery course. In high school I received an athletic collegiate scholarship even though I was only a few "skipped" classes away from not graduating, in college I worked full time and attended courses full time and still graduated (paid for entirely out of my own pocket) in 4 years. I'm now self taught in my own career/own business and I'm making good scratch without any formal training. When it comes to recovery though…I have been on SR for almost a year, I have been seeing a therapist weekly for almost a year, I attend multiple weekly al-anon meetings, have a sponsor and have been working the steps (I'm on step 3 and about to move on to step 4), and for the last month I've been attending weekly couple counseling appts with my husband as well. I run the gamut of recovery tools and damn, I'm just now starting to grasp the basic concepts. I've never ever had to work so freaking hard at anything! I'm like emotionally dyslexic. Problem is, my husband is too and he hasn't figured out that he naturally reads emotionally backwards - and on top of that he's an alcoholic.

So now I wonder what to do. I don't think he's doing anything different 'this time' and I can tell him about him until I'm blue in the face but it doesn't change anything. Just like I had to, he has to figure this out on his own. But now that I've figured it out I'm not sure how patient I'm feeling. The tough part is the I really do love my husband fiercely and I thoroughly enjoy his companionship when he isn't drinking and attempting to work a program.

To my left: hello rock. To my right: hello hard spot.

suki44883

Maybe consider a separation right now instead of jumping immediately to divorce? Getting some distance and not living with him may help you see things more clearly and decide, in time, what you really want. It would also give you time to see what he chooses to do.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. I know it's hard. (((HUGS)))

FireSprite

All I can say is that you have SO very eloquently stated EXACTLY how I have felt every time I have considered divorce. Thank you for that, I think I may even understand my own feelings about it a bit better now. (Because, yeah, it has come up mentally for me at least every few months since I've been on this merry-go-round.)

IDK Stung, you have to follow your gut. I sometimes wonder if I hesitate more based on the fact that he has remained largely sober - even his relapse was a one-off so far..... but those behaviors, that slow-growing maturity, the still-struggling communication.... And like you, sometimes it's ME. Sometimes it's MY wall I can't see over. In my situation, I can definitely see measurable growth since his relapse so I know that has been a big factor for me in staying.

(((HUGS)))

Stung

We've been separated most of the year. He just moved out again after living here for about a month since he "graduated" from rehab (I liked having him here fresh out of rehab). Now he's in a sober living environment - which to be fair, is something different. Maybe that will help his recovery. IDK anymore, but it still leaves me feeling like a single mom without my husband living here. :/

Firesprite, that's the other part of it. Compared to where he was last year, he has made leaps and bounds as far as changes go. It's just not on the same level or to the same degree as me. Maybe I'm being competitive or judging his recovery too harshly but I like to think that I wouldn't even think about divorce if he didn't relapse AGAIN. After he left rehab he told me he was done, never going to drink ever again, last thing he ever wanted to do to himself. yada, yada, yada. Same story he was telling me yesterday and today.

The differences this time is that he's now moving into an SLE and that he blocked his FOO so he is no contact with them (FINALLY!!!) I feel like I'm married to a science experiment at the moment and feel like my marriage is really lacking the benefits of marriage. I'm lacking the enthusiasm of a "maybe this is it!" moment too. I feel like we're back at Go on a Monopoly board already knowing that we'll land on the "go to jail" spot and my husband is too egocentric/sick to pull out his "Get Out of Jail Free" card.

lillamy

That's brilliantly put, and I recognize it so well. I think that when you're accustomed to functioning -- and functioning well -- on a rational/intellectual plane, it's sort of like... when your quadriceps muscles are stronger than your hamstrings; you tend to use them more which makes your hamstrings even weaker, and you end up compensating with the stronger muscles for the weaker.

Therapy has been difficult for me for the same reason: I don't do emotions well. I tend to fall back on explaining rationally why it makes perfect sense for me to feel a certain way -- but feeling it, and working through the feelings, that's a harder goose to pluck.

I'm sorry. Of course, nobody else can tell you what to do. It's clear that you would be perfectly fine on your own, that it might even be easier than having that maybe-hope.

Having seen your postings here for the past year, I just have this feeling that you are very competent in figuring this out. (((hugs)))

Hammer

jmho.

To the left (noise and nonsense) to the right (more noise and nonsense).

Straight Ahead . . . Step 4.

You are on the path, continue to march.

No time now for noise and nonsense. You can do that later, but chances are about 8 steps from now, you will be in a Very Different place anyway.

FireSprite

I could say exactly the same about the first paragraph above except replace relapse/alcohol circumstances with relapse/behaviors. And his growth has been evident not only to me, but others. I have lapped him over & again in recovery if we try to compare growth in some ways; but I really, immediately know that's an unfair comparison the minute I start thinking that way. It really is, we can't see or measure baby steps - not in ourselves, not in others.

I've had to have a Come-To-Jebus talk with myself recently too - that living a LIFE in recovery together means exactly that, going through the evolution of changes independently & as a couple & that it's up to me to enforce or relinquish my boundaries. It's ALWAYS my choice.

IDK, we all have our limits.

Hawks

For me it was relatively easy to achieve and get what I wanted out of life.

I did OK for a guy who has the emotional maturity of a 5-10 year old.

The external stuff was easy, the internal stuff was an entirely different kettle of fish.

I have needed a LOT of help with that.... Lol

Stung

Totally where I'm at. I know I don't like the relapse crap and if the intensity could just come down a notch by actually eliminating the alcohol I think I'd be pacified enough to just chill and let us both go at our own pace in our recoveries individually and jointly. Our good does outweigh the bad but he hypes up the intensity of the bad to the umpteenth degree by adding vodka to the mix. I can deal with occasional angry stuff or mean stuff (two therapy sessions a week is enough to hash that nonsense out) but the drunk stuff, good grief, it's mean and angry and just so far off the top rung that it's almost laughable if he didn't know exactly which buttons of mine to push.

I hear him telling me he's done being an active addict. I hear me telling me I'm done having an active addict husband. Which one of us is actually going to act?

BoxinRotz

Stung, I believe you will act first, even if you drag your feet. When he's ready to stop, he'll stop but that can absolutely be when he's 50. And that's not fair to you or your children to wait on a grown ass man to pull his head out of his ass.

CodeJob

Indeed you write very well here Stung.

The old timers here say it takes 5 years to pull a marriage thru recovery and come out in a sturdier / mentally better place. At 17 mo I believe them.

You have the funds to be separated. He appears to listen to you. He is working recovery, though you see you are BOTH suffering emotional dyslexia (great term). I too have realized RAH and I are more the same than I thought and it makes me sick bc I want to be the GOOD spouse/parent/whatever bell curve I am fixated on... My counselor pointed it out and sure enough even in recovery I'm out to get an A (not an a+ though as I'm not that competitive!).

So you and the father of your kids are one year in. It's not moving fast enough and you have not been thru the steps once fully yet... I am with a Hammer here. Defer until your steps are finished.

Here's the one realization that stopped me: I'll go pick another. I'm not fixed enough to collect another emotional dyslexic. I'm like Velcro to them. So i might as well stay and work and see where things wind up...

But this is MY answer, not yours. You have the right to cut legal threads. He's always going to be underfoot anyway as your kids are so small.

You two are working. You are throwing some serious resources into recovery and he IS doing some things differently (rehab, sober house, blocking family etc). Those are all promising, but you sound impatient. But that is OK. You have the right to act on impatience.

What does your sponsor say?

readerbaby71

I hear you. I am coming from a similar place. That's all I can say. I feel so ****** up I have no business giving anyone advice or input. Hugs.

redatlanta

Stung - I see your problem of course from dealing with the A side of it, but also from the standpoint common as to why marriages/relationships fail.

In order for a relationship to flourish it must grow. When one member is growing and the other is not whoa….that's a really big problem. A lot of time and energy has been spent on your AH. A year of you both in recovery. You have grown by leaps and bounds - him not as much. I confess I do not understand why recovery does not take a hold for some after multiple attempts. I know this as a reality but it still does not compute.

Maybe this is the time. Who knows. Disappointment kills a relationship. I'm not sure your husband really, deep down, believes that you will leave him. Lots of love here - loving each other has never been the issue.

I applaud you for having the balls to move above the "love factor" and consider that a relationship is more that just that.

I don't have advice for you because I don't think you need it.

MissFixit

IMO, there are a several factors to consider. Some about you and some about him.

You:
1. Why now? What is the breaking point right now? What is your motivation to divorce at the present time?
2. If you waited until you finished the step work, do you think you would be okay with the time you waited?
3. Do you have any idea of how long you are willing to "wait?"
4. Are you waiting on his recovery? If it never happens, are you okay with the status quo of periodic relapses?
5. What does your T say?
6. What does your marriage counsellor say? A month isn't that long, but if they are not optimistic, that is sometimes a sign that they see that things are not likely to work out.

Him:
1. Did you kick him out or did he leave on his own b/c he "broke the house rules?"
2. Who introduced the idea of a sober living house, his idea or from you or his "team?"
3. Whose idea was it to cut off FOO? Have you/did you encourage that or give him the idea?
4. Do you think he doing any of the recovery things to appease you/save the family? Have you nudged him along this path?
5. Do you believe he would continue his recovery even if you divorced him?

His items are HIS business, but I know that it does make a difference if the ideas or follow through is not COMPLETELY coming from within him. IF its done FOR someone else or to save a relationship, it probably won't last. I am not asking you to answer these questions here, just to consider them.

Lastly, I agree with Hammer and Codejob that it might help you to be fully through the steps before pulling the trigger. If there is no immediate danger or pressing reason, why not wait the months it will take to finish your steps. That way you be fully assured that you did everything you could. BUT, and I mean a GIANT BUT, if you wait, will you really move forward to D or will you be giving him another chance assuming he isn't up to snuff with his recovery.

Hammer

ummmm, yeah.


ISM? I Sponsor Myself?

Eauchiche

Stung, I am new to recovery (less than a year), but I believe what you are describing is the insanity of the disease. I am not sure I totally buy the disease theory of alcoholism, but I DO buy the diseased pathologies that result from it.

You have a scientific mind that is used to predictable, measurable results from actions. With addiction, the parameters are always changing all over the place. It's like trying to hold Jello in a Vise- Grip. We can do healthy behaviors on our end, but never know how the addict is going to react. Notice I said "react" not "respond."

I'm glad you're here and I enjoy your posts.

FireSprite

{nodding} Agreed.


Agree again, and again the "measurement" of whether another is growing is so difficult to define which is why I had to ask myself other questions: Is this MY effort to control the outcome because *I'm* not patient enough? How long *am* I willing to wait - what do *I* consider a reasonable amount of time?

But again, I think if he started up an active love affair with Jagermeister every few months, my answers might be very different than they are without that component. That brings a whole different set of behaviors & mindset (in my RAH's situation) & not something that I think I can live around again.

I don't know HOW so many manage to stay with an active A honestly, we were separated during the height of RAH's drinking & then, being a closet drinker I didn't know alcohol WAS the problem until HE acknowledged it & sought help. Now that I KNOW better, I don't think I could accept it ever again.

Stung

Hindsight: my sponsor has a LOT of qualifiers, but her ex-husband wasn't one of them. So she has no experience in being married to an alcoholic. She waited to divorce her ex-husband until her kids had graduated from high school even though she wanted to divorce him much sooner. She has mentioned divorce to me several times now and she counseled me yesterday that divorce is permanent. I openly disagreed with her. Nothing in life is permanent and I think I have a different generational view about divorce than she does (she's totally mom age compared to me and has two kids who are my age). I don't think it's a really big deal in the grand scheme of things. More of a declaration that well, I tried my best but this just isn't working and doesn't look like it's going to start miraculously working.

I can't deal with relapse stuff anymore. When he drinks he's just a completely belligerent hateful jackass. Last week, after hitting the ol' vodka bottle he told me he wanted to kill himself and talking to me makes it worse. The next day of course he was remorseful and never meant that, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, but it still hurts when someone says something like that to you and frankly, I don't ever want to hear someone say words like that at me again. He ONLY does that when drinking. That's why now. I don't want to hear that ish ever again.

Not if it meant hearing more of that crap. Right now I think my boundary is if he drinks I'm filing for divorce. I like being around him (a lot) when he's not drinking. When alcohol is in his system he becomes a miserable wart.

Either until he drinks again or forever. I really dig this dude as long as he's not drinking. When he is drinking…I wish I didn't know him because he turns into the ugliest version of himself possible.

No. I'm waiting for him to stop picking up the bottle. Step zero of every program is "Okay, we have a drinking problem. First things first, no more booze. Next lets work on why we drink to begin with and what else we can do instead when we feel like drinking."

She actually keeps the focus on me. That this is a stressful time for me and that my growth is phenomenal and that it is a drastic change from where I was when I first stumbled into her office. I haven't talked to her about divorce yet. I'll see what she says on Wednesday. I value her input the most because I feel like she is the least biased person in my life that I trust.

I see both therapists on Wednesdays. I'm eager to hear what she says too. I could have met with her last Wednesday by myself but I felt overwhelmed and ended up canceling my sitter and the therapy session. The last time we saw her my husband had already been drinking that day and didn't say jack to either one of us about using. This makes me really eager to hear what she has to say and whether she even recommends that we keep seeing her until my husband has some more sober time under his belt.

Are you taking my inventory?

AnvilheadII

is it possible you are expecting TOO MUCH out of him truly getting into recovery (and staying there?). he has inherent traits, good and bad, and it's highly doubtful that he will CHANGE that much. this may be as good as it gets....he may never get sober for life....many partners find the spouse they get on the other side isn't all what they expected.

some do undergo the psychic change mentioned in the Big Book, that full spiritual awakening, and are "reborn" - living wonderful productive lives, self aware and outward focused on helping others. but even that can have it's drawbacks for the spouse....

be kind to yourself and your own progress. recovery isn't a race or a destination. it's a journey........try to enjoy it!

Stung

VERY possible and the therapists generally tend to take me down this route. More that I need to go easier on him. I may just need my expectations to be calibrated. IDK. Recovery isn't easy and I'm willing to be patient, but not with the presence of alcohol and the extreme projecting that he does when he's drunk.