AnvilheadII

Just stop eating so damn much. Why is that so difficult?

because it's not about the FOOD, it's about what the food DOES.....surely you have a favorite food right? mac n cheese or pumpkin pie? something that makes you almost tingle and your brain says AHHHHHH. know the term Comfort Food? those foods you turn to for comfort? hot cocoa with marshmallows on a cold winters day?

when was the last time you heard of someone being rescued off a mountain after 5 days in the snow saying that the first meal they wanted was........

TOFU?? nope they want a hamburger, the greasier the better!

you've never been to vegas, sitting at a slot machine plunking in quarters, pull the crank and it goes Triple Bar Triple Bar Triple Bar and the lights go off and it goes ding ding ding and the money starts plunking out of the machine? doesn't really matter if its penny slots or a scratch ticket, the WINNING is a RUSH.

for the addict the CRAVING for that moment when the brain says AHHHHH has no off switch. the pleasure centers of the brain become trained to respond to that one single substance, or behavior, or ritual, or act. alcohol, porn, gambling, food, shoplifting, heroin.....all those things bring a RUSH, an overpowering WOW.

or at least they once did. the longer the addiction goes on the WOW diminishes.....but the brain remembers that at one time THIS thing did something almost spiritual...........

it becomes a power greater......a god......a need.....

if it was as easy as JUST STOP.....what's funny, being an addict on the other side, once I was FINALLY done? it was 'easy' - but I had to fight to retrain my brain that I really did not WANT to use anymore, it wasn't working, and it never would.

here's the thing that sits there in the addict mind.....what IF....what if i could use just ONE MORE TIME and get that initial first rush - whether that was 4 or 14 year ago - that same out of body, out of this world, life is perfect, nothing can hurt me FEELING one more time??? just once, no harm, no foul and then we resume our regularly scheduled programming?? and the addiction says...oh yes, yes we can do that, it will be fine, trussssstttt me. and the addict caves.....almost crying inside....please, can it please be really good and just once?

Stung

I've experienced rushes and I've experienced comfort from various sources (mine is returning to my own bed after being away from home) but I don't seek those things out to my own demise. I don't neglect my children to spend my days surfing and seek out the ultimate waves to obtain increasingly greater rushes. I don't return from a trip and spend days or weeks in bed because it's so comforting. Those things would ultimately ruin me.

I don't understand the obsession with things to allow yourself to fall into ruin.

I cried once because I was craving crushed ice during my first pregnancy and I couldn't find a place that served that perfectly machine crushed ice. I wanted it so badly. And I didn't get it. Life went on.

I've never experienced the impulse to do or consume something to such excess for comfort or craving or or rush or otherwise. I just don't understand something that is so egregiously over the top. People just do things in life that I cannot wrap my mind around the absolute desperation that they must feel to harm themselves like this. I don't understand.

I sit here thinking it's as simple as learning to self soothe and then I hear my husband and our therapist talk about addiction and I realize that I'm so very far off. For me, I need to learn to self soothe when I'm angry or worried or anxious. My husband's addiction is not comparable to what I have going on. We're so very similar but oh so very different. It's hard to not be able to relate.

AnvilheadII

can you LET GO of your frustration from not being able to understand???
right now, just STOP??? and never let it bother you again? show how EASY it is to just..............stop?

Stung

I can and I have to. In the meantime, I feel foolish for thinking that it was something much simpler. It's also hard to empathize with something that you don't understand.

MissFixit

I don't understand the compulsion either. I have taught myself to "just accept" that it exists without trying to comprehend the need. However, I also see addiction as something I do not want to participate in any way. I distance myself as much as I can in all aspects of life when I believe someone is an untreated addict or mentally ill. Life it too short and it is too draining to me. Its really not about them, but rather the type of life I want to live.

dandylion

Stung....do you understand why a bull would be willing to charge at you....even though you are a very nice VEGAN! Can you explain the thinking and motivations of the bull?

dandylion

Florence

I found it really helpful to understand the medical research out there. It gave me a more complete picture, aside from my XAH, what it meant to be an addict, life as an addict, like with an addict.

HBO put out an awesome documentary series a few years ago called "Addiction." I highly recommend it. I saw some of it online and bought the DVDs later (they're inexpensive). HBO: Addiction

There was a clip by Nora Volkow that I couldn't get out of my head: HBO: Addiction: The Film: Supplemental Film: An Interview with Nora D. Volkow, M.D. She talked about how addiction is a chronic relapsing condition.

HBO: Addiction: The Film: Centerpiece Film: The Science of Relapse

I mean, really, it's so good.

readerbaby71

Addiction of any kind sucks. It's horrible. I have multiple addictions, including food, which is one of the hardest because you can't just quit. We need food to sustain life. Consider yourself lucky that you don't suffer from these kinds of compulsions. They're a lifelong struggle.

Florence

One more just because it's so good: HBO: Addiction: Understanding Addiction: Addiction and the Brain's Pleasure Pathway: Beyond Willpower

This was my introduction to addiction research and it really filled in the gaps. It made me much more compassionate about the struggle, even if I was bothered by how the struggle affected me.

LexieCat

The point Anvil is making is that WE aren't in complete control at all times of where our minds go and our tendency to continue to analyze even when other people tell us (and we know, ourselves, intellectually) that it is useless and even counter-productive to our own recovery.

I feel ya, Stung, I really do. The "do I stay or do I go" decision isn't easy, and what goes into that decision, and when you can make it finally, and with peace in your own mind, is different for everyone. The key is the part about "peace in your own mind"--where you don't second-guess your decision over and over, replaying all the "what-ifs." Sooner or later, if you are to have that peace, it will all come down to your own recovery.

You have every RIGHT to walk any time you want to. And nobody here will say, geeze, she was too impatient. Your staying or going will not have any long-term effect on whether he can recover and have a happy life of his own. You won't destroy him, you won't doom him, if you walk. Not if he wants to get better.

So focus on your own reasons for staying or going, just bearing in mind that either way, you are still stuck with yourself. And if YOU want a happy life, ultimately that depends on YOUR recovery.

Hammer

Meanwhile, at a local Alanon Meeting Room . . .

The Steps are Still waiting patiently on the wall . . .

You will figure this out, Stung. All in this together.

lizatola

This! Acceptance! I tried so dang hard to just accept the fact that it was an addiction that was in our lives and I still struggle to separate the person from the disease. Once I worked through (yep, took years) exactly what type of life I wanted to live FOR ME, I was able to just accept that my AH wasn't going to change and that he truly was an addict and that I needed to set my sights on what I wanted for my life. Did I really want to live with an addict forever? Could I actually wrap my brain around the fact that this will be a battle for the next 30 years possibly and how did I feel about that? The answer was, "Not good!" I didn't want to deal with relapses anymore, I didn't want to see him banged up from falling over and over again, I don't want to deal with manipulation and lies anymore, and I certainly didn't want to face another DUI and the fallout from that incident again either. The love we had just wasn't enough. It just wasn't....at least for me.

Hugs, Stung! Sending you lots of love and support today!

readerbaby71

Hey Stung, I hope you didn't think my post was harsh. I wasn't criticizing your view, just trying to explain what it's like to be other the other side.

Love ya!

HealingWillCome

^^This.^^ Because it's really impossible to comprehend unless you're an addict.

My path to acceptance was long and uphill. I had to relieve myself of the mindset that if the alcoholic/addict in my life could just see things my way, and do what I 'knew' would work, then we could proceed to our happy future together.

Having said that, a critical part of my journey to acceptance was studying the physiology of addiction. (Great links that Florence shared, btw.) I couldn't let go of the control until I was able to understand that I had no control. I know people who are able to just blindly accept people and situations for who and what they are, let go, and move on. I'm not one of them (dammit anyway.) Right? Life would be so much easier in some respects.

Passionately curious minds created for problem solving don't mesh well with addiction. The addict's problems aren't ours to solve. That was a hard pill to swallow for someone who's used to having all the answers. It took me almost 50 years of life to get that.

I actually thought I was in acceptance for a long time...until I realized I wasn't. "Thinking" it because I understood the concept intellectually wasn't the same as "experiencing" it. It's a little hard to explain, but you could say it came with a spiritual awareness that neither my alcoholic nor I was right or wrong. We were just different. And that we both had the right to continue life's journey along whatever path we chose, and everything would still turn out okay. In a nutshell, it was about letting go and letting God. All that Al-Anon stuff that really actually works.

I think you're doing beautifully, Stung, really. Your brutal honesty is what allows you to help yourself. Chin up and hugs to you.

FireSprite

Like readerbaby mentioned, my empathy comes from dealing with my own food addictions/issues my entire life. (I don't doubt for a moment that it is linked to my ACoA status either.)

I know what it's like to hear that war going on in my head between the rational/logic side of and the emotional/addict side. I hear it with every choice I make for every bite of food that I eat every day & I can hardly remember a time when it wasn't that way. I'm either praising & congratulating myself for a good choice, justifying a bad choice or ignoring it all & just letting the beast loose.... but there is ALWAYS noise in my head around it.

Stung

You guys. These are some really awesome responses with so much good stuff.

I agree with you 100%. It's not that I don't love my husband, not that I think he's a bad guy. He's sick. It's difficult for me to remember that he's sick when things aren't bad. When things aren't bad then I don't really think about leaving, rather I focus on what I could do if I had a partner who was capable of watching our children and giving me some more "me time." I really don't know what kind of life I want to live other than knowing that the one that I've wanted for such a long time just isn't feasible. It's a weird space to be in.

I heart you Dandy, but I share two small children with a man, not a bull. I don't understand a LOT of things that people do. I don't understand why so many college aged women are raped, I don't understand why some people think it's funny to fight with bums, I don't understand how anyone could ever be compelled to harm a child. Yet these things happen daily all around the world. However, the sickness that I am living with is addiction. I'm not trying to solve the world's problems, I just wanted to understand the one that my husband is suffering with. I could Google the bull thing and quickly find a logical, concise answer.

Florence - YOU ROCK! Thank you for those links, I'm going to go check them out when I hop off of SR.

But at this point in time, I do feel like I do have a happy life. Then I talk to someone else candidly about what I have going on and they basically tell me that my life seems really stressful and then I feel like I'm full of crap. :/ This part is super confusing for me. I really struggle with giving other people free rent in my dome.

For me, it's not about love. It's about the fact that I genuinely enjoy his presence in my life when he's not drinking. I would love my husband whether I divorce him or die married to him. I don't think he's a bad man, I think he's a sick man. It's not about love. It's about whether staying with him is adding value to my life or stealing happiness from it.

YES! You know, when my sponsor talks about her experience with 'let go and let God' I always laugh at her - who do you think you are that you're suddenly giving God permission - which is even funnier because she's a pastor. She recently shared with me that in the beginning of her recovery she used to breathe and on her inhales she would say "Your Will" and on her exhales she would say "For Me" but then she told me that she doesn't believe that God has will because will is more of a human thing not a God thing (and I had a total OMG moment because I believe the exact same thing!!) but the point is not so much spiritual but more logically that maybe anyone else's will for me would be better than my own because I haven't done such a great job to this point anyway. Maybe I just need to think a little less like me.

Yeah, I don't really have anything like this. I like to shop, because exterior layers make me feel good about my interior layers but I don't think I justify stuff like this. I stay within limits, for the most part anyway. Earlier this week my sponsor told me that I'm hyper-vigilant and she thinks it makes my life really stressful. Pretty much anytime I act or do anything I think about consequences. Always. My husband recently started calling this 'playing the tape forward' and he NEVER does this. (Oh yeah, I just used always and never!) If I'm eating a really yummy dessert, I'm thinking about what I'm going to do physically to make up for the extra intake in calories. If I'm buying something a little spendy then I think about what I'm going to donate or e-bay or abstain from to make up the difference. Which lane do I want to drive in, which one am I least likely to potentially get T-boned in? What business move do I want to make? Which will be the biggest reward and moderately tolerable risk?

Hammer makes fun of me for my "if, then" way of thinking, but that's how I think. I feel like everything in life has a handoff or an opportunity cost. I believe that and it's been really damn consistent. Problem is that I haven't really tested that theory in the relationship field because I don't really know what I'm doing. My husband is really the only long term adult romantic relationship that I've ever had. People talk about love all the time and I love him regardless. I'll love him if we divorce. And I cannot control whether someone loves me or not (I think I'm a really lovable person but that's therapy stuff, not program stuff.) I don't want to regret divorcing him. I want to know with every fiber in my being that I don't want to be with him. I need it to be more than anger or hurt. Just like I love a lot of people but that doesn't mean I want to marry them all. This isn't a heart thing for me. It's a total head thing.

redatlanta

I think you do have a happy life due to all the work you have put into recovery. its very easy for peeps to look into our lives and say "oh I wouldn't put up with that"!, or that our lives are so much more stressful than theirs. We each have our thing, our button. Can you stand in someone else's shoes and live with their sh1t? Everybody has a pile. Not everyone voices what it is.

I am also an "if then" thinker. I can't say it is quite to the level you describe. I call it "engineering thinking". I have a feeling you would have made a brilliant engineer your thinking is so analytical. A relationship is hard to factor into this way of thinking. Way too many variables - A + B = c, d, e, f, g, h…… The thinking switches from "if then" to "what if". "What if" is a dangerous thought process.

I think you can apply "if then" to your relationship. "If" your husband doesn't get on board with sobriety "then" you will divorce him. I am sure of that. I don't think it will be a wishy washy thing for you if it comes to it. You will get sick and tired of the roller coaster and be done. Or, he will finally get a hold of himself and you don't. No one can say how long this will take for you. I personally don't see much more tolerance in you for continued relapses but who knows.

Hawkeye13

Hi Stung;
Taking off my codie hat and putting on my recovered alcoholic hat at the moment. . .


There

OK--my take on this matches some other folks.
I don't think he has really bought in to not drinking at a deep level
and is skittering along with white knuckles.

I am a professional like both of you, but due to demands of my job
and the potential stigma I faced, I decided I couldn't afford to take time off to go to rehab although it was covered by my plan.

However, just like Anvil said, something clicked for me and I knew I had no
way to go but sober whatever it took.

So I foolishly (I now know) shivered and shook and puked my way through detox
in my bedroom over a long weekend and for the most part haven't looked back.
Besides my failed "moderation" experiment which was short lived and over more
than a year ago now, I have stayed totally sober despite my husband still drinking too
much and leaving alcohol all over the house opened and waiting.

I don't do AA or anything else but this site. It works fine because I am
absolutely committed to not drinking and in the past three years have built
a solid life that has nothing to do with alcohol, and plenty to do with what
I'm interested in and want to do personally as an artist and human being.

Quite frankly, it doesn't sound to me
like your husband is at that point of "drinking is never an option" yet.
And until he is, the relapses will keep happening.

You can only take what you can take.
Maybe he needs to know you aren't able to keep up being the warden much longer.
His choice to drink, of course, but yours to no longer keep taking him back after he does.

AnvilheadII

stung, there are things I don't understand....like electricity or how a combustion engine really works.....but it's not NECESSARY for me to fully understand......I flip on the lightswitch and wah lah LIGHT.....I put the key in the ignition to my car and WAH LAH it starts.

from everything hank told me about the chick he was with before me, I REALLY do not understand what the hell he was thinking!????

I don't understand why when the running game is working so well, the Seahawks will then suddenly inexplicably abandon that plan and start throwing into double coverage.

any person who has had the chicken pox has the shingles virus inside them. approximately 1 in 5 will later develop shingles. no one knows WHY. the virus is just THERE, harmless, and then for no apparent reason, there will be a flareup. they surmise it may sometimes be caused by a period of stress, or illness when the immune system is compromised. but that doesn't mean that every person who is stressed or got the flu will have a shingles flare up.

I think addiction is kinda like that......this THING that lies dormant, maybe not in everyone, but in a random collection of humans.....and a combination of events and substances can cause addiction to flare up. not everyone who has ever had a bit too much to drink becomes an alcoholic. not everyone who smoked pot, or did a few lines, or took some non-prescribed pills will become an addict. not everyone who had a crap childhood becomes an addict.

there's no vaccine, no cure, no magic pill for addiction. it's just.....THERE and must be dealt with head on, with vigilance and commitment. and it's not easy....there are over 14,500 various treatment centers and approximately 59,565 AA groups in the US alone......conversely only 11,900ish Starbucks....so FINDING treatment is technically EASIER than finding a cup of coffee............

ExpatWife

Today's my first time here. This is my second post. ^ THIS is what drove me here.