My son...sober 1 year but I cannot do anything right!
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Originally Posted by clatono 
Trying my best to stay in my hula hoop and not allow anyone else in with me! My gosh...he never gives up! I was asked, yet again, to give my $100.00 budget money to him because he needed toilet paper, etc. I asked him what the etc. was, and he said "toothpaste, epson salt, generic prilosec, shampoo". So...I had CVS extrrabucks and went to CVS, bought what he needed and gave it to him when he came by to see me! That was my way of not giving him money...directly, that is!
this kind of request would just infuriate me. btw, I can get 4 rolls of TP, toothpaste and shampoo for under $20.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2,937
I would start saving a few old, nearly at the end bottles of shampoo and shower gel, perhaps a toothpaste tube with a bit left in it, those samples of moisturisers and shampoo you get in magazines, travel size mouth washes, anything complimentary you receive like guest soaps, some mini tissue packs and toiletries you are given but don't like or won't use and keep them in a drawer or a box.
Maybe buy some cheapo toothbrushes and toilet paper too. Cheapest of the cheap.
The next time he asks, tell him, you have a drawer of supplies like that, some are a bit used, but he is welcome to help himself to whatever he wants that might bridge the gap until he has cash as you have no cash to give him.
I wish you the best xx
Maybe buy some cheapo toothbrushes and toilet paper too. Cheapest of the cheap.
The next time he asks, tell him, you have a drawer of supplies like that, some are a bit used, but he is welcome to help himself to whatever he wants that might bridge the gap until he has cash as you have no cash to give him.
I wish you the best xx
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2,937
Originally Posted by Fandy
this kind of request would just infuriate me. btw, I can get 4 rolls of TP, toothpaste and shampoo for under $20.
Shampoo is not essential either when you are broke.
You can wash your hair with soap or even a bit of washing up detergent.
You won't have sleek, shiny, tangle free hair, but you will still be clean and will have saved some cash.
If you can't cope with the tangles you can use a bit of laundry softner as a conditioner. You can rub one of those tumble dryer sheets on your head too. Apparently it works a bit like serum for hair!
No need for separate hair and laundry products!
Even more savings.
You could use a bit of washing up liquid in your bath too!
We had to do it is kids.
It makes the bath super clean afterwards too - now tide marks.
If your skin is a bit taut after that, olive oil is awesome for moisturising.
Cooking stuff and kitchen stuff can be multi purpose.
I hope maybe I have made yo smile a bit!
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 83
Oh guys...and it just gets worse! Yesterday afternoon, he texted me that he lost his unemployment and now the world is "out to get him", and "he's done something to **** God off and He isn't on his side anymore...and without God, he has no one he can count on anymore, so he just gives up"!
He also informed me that he and his wife are moving to a bigger apartment, but he doesn't know how he will pay the movers $400.00 to move them! Okay...this is infuriating to me because, my husband and I just bought a patio home and I am in the process of downsizing by 1000 sq ft and moving as well. Let's see...we have enough money, if we wanted to, to pay movers BUT...we are moving about 5 minutes away...so we are choosing to move things ourselves and get friends to help us move the big stuff. We are borrowing a friends trailer, etc. I cannot believe I've raised someone who feels such entitlement!!!!! And this is someone who doesn't even have a job!
But let me get honest on another level here...deep in the back of my mind, I am scared and panicked because I'm afraid he will either relapse or worse! I know families of alcoholics/addicts have these fears...but I just need to get it out on the table and be honest about it.
I feel as if he is bordering on something drastic...which could possibly be a good thing if he pulls himself up by boot straps and decides to accept some responsibility ...attend meetings regularly, etc.
I'm thinking "Detach, Clatono...Detach"!
Help....
He also informed me that he and his wife are moving to a bigger apartment, but he doesn't know how he will pay the movers $400.00 to move them! Okay...this is infuriating to me because, my husband and I just bought a patio home and I am in the process of downsizing by 1000 sq ft and moving as well. Let's see...we have enough money, if we wanted to, to pay movers BUT...we are moving about 5 minutes away...so we are choosing to move things ourselves and get friends to help us move the big stuff. We are borrowing a friends trailer, etc. I cannot believe I've raised someone who feels such entitlement!!!!! And this is someone who doesn't even have a job!
But let me get honest on another level here...deep in the back of my mind, I am scared and panicked because I'm afraid he will either relapse or worse! I know families of alcoholics/addicts have these fears...but I just need to get it out on the table and be honest about it.
I feel as if he is bordering on something drastic...which could possibly be a good thing if he pulls himself up by boot straps and decides to accept some responsibility ...attend meetings regularly, etc.
I'm thinking "Detach, Clatono...Detach"!
Help....
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by Sasha4
Shampoo is not essential either when you are broke. You can wash your hair with soap or even a bit of washing up detergent. You won't have sleek, shiny, tangle free hair, but you will still be clean and will have saved some cash. If you can't cope with the tangles you can use a bit of laundry softner as a conditioner. You can rub one of those tumble dryer sheets on your head too. Apparently it works a bit like serum for hair! No need for separate hair and laundry products! Even more savings. You could use a bit of washing up liquid in your bath too! We had to do it is kids. It makes the bath super clean afterwards too - now tide marks. If your skin is a bit taut after that, olive oil is awesome for moisturising. Cooking stuff and kitchen stuff can be multi purpose. I hope maybe I have made yo smile a bit!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by Sasha4
I would start saving a few old, nearly at the end bottles of shampoo and shower gel, perhaps a toothpaste tube with a bit left in it, those samples of moisturisers and shampoo you get in magazines, travel size mouth washes, anything complimentary you receive like guest soaps, some mini tissue packs and toiletries you are given but don't like or won't use and keep them in a drawer or a box. Maybe buy some cheapo toothbrushes and toilet paper too. Cheapest of the cheap. The next time he asks, tell him, you have a drawer of supplies like that, some are a bit used, but he is welcome to help himself to whatever he wants that might bridge the gap until he has cash as you have no cash to give him. I wish you the best xx
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by Fandy
Married people that are almost 30 years old should be able buy their own toilet paper, toothpaste and shampoo, ya' think? GOOD GRIEF he should be EMBARRASSED to be asking his mama for this.... you might ask him to try to live on his own and support his own household....does his wife KNOW that he keeps hitting you up for cash? this kind of request would just infuriate me. btw, I can get 4 rolls of TP, toothpaste and shampoo for under $20.
He is using so much "guilt provoking, transference of his problems into my problems" language!
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clatono, this is the time we were telling you about, the extended time he would use to draw you back into his dramas. And it's working; you bought him toiletries. At that point he knew to keep trying. For his own sake, cut off ALL help of any kind.
You're not going to give him the money for moving right? So it's not your role to solve the problem of how their stuff is getting from one place to the other. No need to text your DIL or make suggestions or get involved in any way.
The more I hear about him, the more it seems like there's something deeply wrong - and I know that's upsetting for you. It's like he has lost all inhibition about taking your money, even for the smallest thing. You can't cure him, but it sounds like he needs therapy badly.
Is it possible for your husband to screen his calls and texts? Vulnerable as you are, it's just not worth getting into conversations with him by text or phone and it would be great for you to have support.
On a lighter note, we call cilantro 'coriander' in Australia, so now you'll be coriander to me.
You're not going to give him the money for moving right? So it's not your role to solve the problem of how their stuff is getting from one place to the other. No need to text your DIL or make suggestions or get involved in any way.
The more I hear about him, the more it seems like there's something deeply wrong - and I know that's upsetting for you. It's like he has lost all inhibition about taking your money, even for the smallest thing. You can't cure him, but it sounds like he needs therapy badly.
Is it possible for your husband to screen his calls and texts? Vulnerable as you are, it's just not worth getting into conversations with him by text or phone and it would be great for you to have support.
On a lighter note, we call cilantro 'coriander' in Australia, so now you'll be coriander to me.
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clatono (AKA cilantro) (AKA coriander)......As a veteran of this sort of thing....I tend to think that FeelingGreat is on the right track.
My gut tell me that there are more layers to this than meet the eye. He may be spending the money is ways unknown to you or his wife. She may be more involved in this than you think. He may not be working a program as much as he presents it that he is. You can't know what all really IS going on!
At baseline, I would suggest that you become as neutral as Switzerland with the wife. It is your son's job to deal with his wife (for better or worse). Getting involved just tangles you further in the web and confusion.
You are being used like nobody's business. Your compassion and mother's guilt keeps you vulnerable and sucked in. You can't keep him from relapsing---you can't keep him sober. But, you sure can enable him!!
This is too big for you to handle alone---the psychological pressures are too much for m ost mothers to bear. It is essential that you get help and support for drawing new boundaries with him. YOU NEED LOTS OF SUPPORT IN THIS. Is your husband on the same page with you? If he isn't---time to make that happen. You must have a united front and an army of support behind you--because this isn't easy.
If you weren't alive---they would find other ways. In your desperation (which I completely understand), you are making it easy for him to exploit you. Your mother's heart---the guilt that this is your fault; that if he gets mad, he won't love you; that you will be bad-mouthed as a bad mother; that you have failed; that they couldn't survive without you; that he needs you to get/stay sober.
I am here to tell you that none of these things are true.
There are other resources that are better than you to help struggling young families. The salvation army and county social services, for starters.
You may need to get very detached---VERY detached....especially, in the beginning.
You raised him....you did your nurturing.....he must now, learn how to fly. HE WILL NOT LEARN UNTIL HE HAS TO--UNTIL THERE ARE NO OTHER OPTIONS.
I will emphasize---He will not stop loving you. He will get angry and blame you and bad-mouth you, etc. Maybe, for a long time. But, he will still love you...way, way down deep just like he did when he was 8yrs. old!!!!! This is just the way it works.
You can't expect him to change just because you are willing to "love him there". You have to do the changing, first.
Please, please get some help from those with experience who have already walked this path.
dandylion
My gut tell me that there are more layers to this than meet the eye. He may be spending the money is ways unknown to you or his wife. She may be more involved in this than you think. He may not be working a program as much as he presents it that he is. You can't know what all really IS going on!
At baseline, I would suggest that you become as neutral as Switzerland with the wife. It is your son's job to deal with his wife (for better or worse). Getting involved just tangles you further in the web and confusion.
You are being used like nobody's business. Your compassion and mother's guilt keeps you vulnerable and sucked in. You can't keep him from relapsing---you can't keep him sober. But, you sure can enable him!!
This is too big for you to handle alone---the psychological pressures are too much for m ost mothers to bear. It is essential that you get help and support for drawing new boundaries with him. YOU NEED LOTS OF SUPPORT IN THIS. Is your husband on the same page with you? If he isn't---time to make that happen. You must have a united front and an army of support behind you--because this isn't easy.
If you weren't alive---they would find other ways. In your desperation (which I completely understand), you are making it easy for him to exploit you. Your mother's heart---the guilt that this is your fault; that if he gets mad, he won't love you; that you will be bad-mouthed as a bad mother; that you have failed; that they couldn't survive without you; that he needs you to get/stay sober.
I am here to tell you that none of these things are true.
There are other resources that are better than you to help struggling young families. The salvation army and county social services, for starters.
You may need to get very detached---VERY detached....especially, in the beginning.
You raised him....you did your nurturing.....he must now, learn how to fly. HE WILL NOT LEARN UNTIL HE HAS TO--UNTIL THERE ARE NO OTHER OPTIONS.
I will emphasize---He will not stop loving you. He will get angry and blame you and bad-mouth you, etc. Maybe, for a long time. But, he will still love you...way, way down deep just like he did when he was 8yrs. old!!!!! This is just the way it works.
You can't expect him to change just because you are willing to "love him there". You have to do the changing, first.
Please, please get some help from those with experience who have already walked this path.
dandylion
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Dear Cilantro;
block him from your phone or just turn it off for a few hours....pack up your own stuff and concentrate on your own wonderful new home.
let the little married chaos-infused son do what he needs to with HIS own home....really, he would relapse either way, YOU cannot control what he does, he has to do that. You raised him to know right from wrong, let him choose the path. If he can afford a bigger apartment, he can figure out how to move his own stuff.
do not give him a dime...Your son would peeee on your leg and then tell you it's raining.
If his unemployment benefits are completed he will have to GASP! get a job and support himself. I hear that Costco is hiring, McDonalds, Home Depot or walmart. He could be working within the next 2 weeks.
Mr. Very Very Sensitive needs to grow up and stop acting like a giant PITA (pain in the butt)
block him from your phone or just turn it off for a few hours....pack up your own stuff and concentrate on your own wonderful new home.
let the little married chaos-infused son do what he needs to with HIS own home....really, he would relapse either way, YOU cannot control what he does, he has to do that. You raised him to know right from wrong, let him choose the path. If he can afford a bigger apartment, he can figure out how to move his own stuff.
do not give him a dime...Your son would peeee on your leg and then tell you it's raining.
If his unemployment benefits are completed he will have to GASP! get a job and support himself. I hear that Costco is hiring, McDonalds, Home Depot or walmart. He could be working within the next 2 weeks.
Mr. Very Very Sensitive needs to grow up and stop acting like a giant PITA (pain in the butt)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 83
Guys...this is every bit as bad as withdrawal from hydro's!!! It is taking everything I have not to break down and try to "fix" things by giving him money!!!!!
He has gone to very drastic measures today. He has deleted his FB account, which I didn't even notice until he texted me and pointed it out to me and told me not to call the cops...that he just needed some time alone. He has texted me all day long. All he talks about is how he is going to disappear and go off the grid for a while, how no one loves or likes him except me, how much he hates himself and what a complete, stupid failure he is. It just goes on and on and on. I have responded in short phrases and have made no offer of money. But it is almost unbearable because I'm afraid of what he will do. I don't want him to suffer. I'm his enabler, and I get that....it's like a sick cycle.
It helps to get this out...thanks for listening to me!
Hugs
He has gone to very drastic measures today. He has deleted his FB account, which I didn't even notice until he texted me and pointed it out to me and told me not to call the cops...that he just needed some time alone. He has texted me all day long. All he talks about is how he is going to disappear and go off the grid for a while, how no one loves or likes him except me, how much he hates himself and what a complete, stupid failure he is. It just goes on and on and on. I have responded in short phrases and have made no offer of money. But it is almost unbearable because I'm afraid of what he will do. I don't want him to suffer. I'm his enabler, and I get that....it's like a sick cycle.
It helps to get this out...thanks for listening to me!
Hugs
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Lubbock, Texas
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Originally Posted by Fandy
Dear Cilantro; block him from your phone or just turn it off for a few hours....pack up your own stuff and concentrate on your own wonderful new home. let the little married chaos-infused son do what he needs to with HIS own home....really, he would relapse either way, YOU cannot control what he does, he has to do that. You raised him to know right from wrong, let him choose the path. If he can afford a bigger apartment, he can figure out how to move his own stuff. do not give him a dime...Your son would peeee on your leg and then tell you it's raining. If his unemployment benefits are completed he will have to GASP! get a job and support himself. I hear that Costco is hiring, McDonalds, Home Depot or walmart. He could be working within the next 2 weeks. Mr. Very Very Sensitive needs to grow up and stop acting like a giant PITA (pain in the butt)
I haven't broken yet...trying so hard not too!
Thank you so much for your reply...you are so right!
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Oh, Clatono...he's pulling out all the stops with the manipulation. You know this. I know how hard it is, but the best thing you can do for you is turn off your phone or block his number for a while (not a few hours, maybe several days). This is not an 8 year old child, this is a full grown man. He doesn't need his mommy to help him. He needs to help himself.
God forbid but....if you died tomorrow, what would he do?? He needs to learn how to take care of himself and since he hasn't done that up to now, then NOW is the time for him to learn how.
I know you love him. I know how hard it is to say no and turn your back, but we all know and YOU know that he's just playing on your sympathy. Don't back down. Don't be tempted to respond to his manipulative texts. Block his number so you don't even see them. He WILL survive. (((HUGS)))
God forbid but....if you died tomorrow, what would he do?? He needs to learn how to take care of himself and since he hasn't done that up to now, then NOW is the time for him to learn how.
I know you love him. I know how hard it is to say no and turn your back, but we all know and YOU know that he's just playing on your sympathy. Don't back down. Don't be tempted to respond to his manipulative texts. Block his number so you don't even see them. He WILL survive. (((HUGS)))
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Location: Lubbock, Texas
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Originally Posted by FeelingGreat
clatono, this is the time we were telling you about, the extended time he would use to draw you back into his dramas. And it's working; you bought him toiletries. At that point he knew to keep trying. For his own sake, cut off ALL help of any kind. You're not going to give him the money for moving right? So it's not your role to solve the problem of how their stuff is getting from one place to the other. No need to text your DIL or make suggestions or get involved in any way. The more I hear about him, the more it seems like there's something deeply wrong - and I know that's upsetting for you. It's like he has lost all inhibition about taking your money, even for the smallest thing. You can't cure him, but it sounds like he needs therapy badly. Is it possible for your husband to screen his calls and texts? Vulnerable as you are, it's just not worth getting into conversations with him by text or phone and it would be great for you to have support. On a lighter note, we call cilantro 'coriander' in Australia, so now you'll be coriander to me.
I like "coriander" too! lol Maybe I do need to let my husband screen all calls from him for a while. And I agree that something is deeply wrong with him. He did go to counseling last week for the first time, and I pray he goes again this week!
And you are right about getting my DIL involved...I'm totally not supposed to pull her in because it's a form of manipulation to some extent.
Ugh...love is tough!
Hugs to you....
Coriander
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clatono....he is well aware that this hurts you. This is what he is counting in--so that he can get his way. He knows that this has ALWAYS worked in the past. He know where your hot buttons are--and he is pushing them .....hard!!
I know it is very different to break long standing patterns, like this....that is exactly why I wrote what I did in my post above.
This is why you need more support.
Refraining from discussions of his "problems" is a good starting point. Cutting him off with phrases like: "Son, You have a grow-up man's problem and I hope you work it out. I can't help you." Or "I am sorry you are having these problems...I have to go".
"Sorry, I can't spare the money". You get the drift......
You may have to go no contact if he remains manipulative.
He has his AA friends; his AA sponsor; and his wife to take his problems to.
He is pulling your chain...pressing your buttons.....Don't let him get by with it.
dandylion
I know it is very different to break long standing patterns, like this....that is exactly why I wrote what I did in my post above.
This is why you need more support.
Refraining from discussions of his "problems" is a good starting point. Cutting him off with phrases like: "Son, You have a grow-up man's problem and I hope you work it out. I can't help you." Or "I am sorry you are having these problems...I have to go".
"Sorry, I can't spare the money". You get the drift......
You may have to go no contact if he remains manipulative.
He has his AA friends; his AA sponsor; and his wife to take his problems to.
He is pulling your chain...pressing your buttons.....Don't let him get by with it.
dandylion
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Location: east coast
Posts: 1,332
I knew a young man who pulled this all the time with his mother. You know why? Because he could. It was a game to him. He just kept pushing buttons until he found the ones that worked.
Sad thing is. She bought into it time and time again. Through all his relapses, rehab stints, finding great jobs and losing them from relapses. She gave and gave and gave. Didnt matter. He felt so entitled he took all she had and when she had nothing he stole. Went to jail twice for robbery and she still enables him. Pities him and babies him.
If you dont put a stop to it it will crush your spirit, cause you financial hardship, and at the end of the day it wont stop him if he is going to relapse
Sad thing is. She bought into it time and time again. Through all his relapses, rehab stints, finding great jobs and losing them from relapses. She gave and gave and gave. Didnt matter. He felt so entitled he took all she had and when she had nothing he stole. Went to jail twice for robbery and she still enables him. Pities him and babies him.
If you dont put a stop to it it will crush your spirit, cause you financial hardship, and at the end of the day it wont stop him if he is going to relapse
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I love it....absolutely love it that you guys love me enough to tell things like I need to hear them! Thank you.... This site is AMAZING!!! I feel as if I know each of you very well and could sit down and have dinner together.
I've decided to block him and if he needs to reach me bad enough...he can call his stepdad...my husband. It's dragging me down and I'm finding myself checking my phone every few minutes. The truth is...if he hurts himself or relapses...it's not my fault because I've done nothing wrong, other than giving in to his manipulative strategies in the past.
This reminds me so much of a book I once read when my kids were younger by James Dobson, "When love gets tough"...or something like that. Love isn't about making everything right with the world, because as human beings, we simply cannot do that. And really...where would the challenge in life be if someone made our worlds perfect all of the time? And...no amount of money will pull him out of this slump he is in. He needs to build character and this cannot be done as long as I am helping him.
I need to be honest about my fears of blocking him...I'm so afraid he will not feel loved when he realizes I've blocked him. But this is due to my own insecurities and I've got to let that go. If I love him...I will let him fall hard and pray that he swims back to the surface for air.
I cannot describe how grateful I am for this site...no words!
Clatono, Cilantro, Coriander
I've decided to block him and if he needs to reach me bad enough...he can call his stepdad...my husband. It's dragging me down and I'm finding myself checking my phone every few minutes. The truth is...if he hurts himself or relapses...it's not my fault because I've done nothing wrong, other than giving in to his manipulative strategies in the past.
This reminds me so much of a book I once read when my kids were younger by James Dobson, "When love gets tough"...or something like that. Love isn't about making everything right with the world, because as human beings, we simply cannot do that. And really...where would the challenge in life be if someone made our worlds perfect all of the time? And...no amount of money will pull him out of this slump he is in. He needs to build character and this cannot be done as long as I am helping him.
I need to be honest about my fears of blocking him...I'm so afraid he will not feel loved when he realizes I've blocked him. But this is due to my own insecurities and I've got to let that go. If I love him...I will let him fall hard and pray that he swims back to the surface for air.
I cannot describe how grateful I am for this site...no words!
Clatono, Cilantro, Coriander
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clatono---I wish that you could come over for dinner!!! Could we talk!
I have a friend in my community from Lubbock Texas. She told me that when she was leaving her husband in Lubbock that she was in the car crying and looking in the rear view mirror....and there was a song playing on the radio called "Lubbock Texas in the Rear View Mirror". LOL.
If you want to come to dinner....get on a plane to Dulles International Airport...then get a cab for the five minute ride to my front door!!
dandylion
I have a friend in my community from Lubbock Texas. She told me that when she was leaving her husband in Lubbock that she was in the car crying and looking in the rear view mirror....and there was a song playing on the radio called "Lubbock Texas in the Rear View Mirror". LOL.
If you want to come to dinner....get on a plane to Dulles International Airport...then get a cab for the five minute ride to my front door!!
dandylion
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Originally Posted by dandylion
clatono---I wish that you could come over for dinner!!! Could we talk! I have a friend in my community from Lubbock Texas. She told me that when she was leaving her husband in Lubbock that she was in the car crying and looking in the rear view mirror....and there was a song playing on the radio called "Lubbock Texas in the Rear View Mirror". LOL. If you want to come to dinner....get on a plane to Dulles International Airport...then get a cab for the five minute ride to my front door!! dandylion
It's a small world!
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