readerbaby71

Haha, me too!

SoloMio

I'm actually Aries, but very close to the cusp of Pisces.. However, I've always identified more strongly with Pisces--so good call!

And good call on the talk with your son! That's amazing what good, honest, compassionate communication can do. Especially when there are no undercurrents of resentment from doing for others what you know they should do for themselves. Sounds like he has a lot of respect for you and your recovery, as well he should!

littlefish

Good work on the beginning of detachment! Today I just helped my 25 year old move out of his college housing into an apartment and thought a lot about my boundaries: how much is too much? Should we have told him he is responsible for the move, and that his friends should help him?

While I scrubbed down the stove and fridge (that he had a chance to clean last week), I wondered if I was slipping down the slippery slope of helping him too much.
I have a friend I kid you not who wiped her sons behind after the toilet until he was 9. I vowed I would NEVER be that kind of mother!

But, when I was at his place cleaning today, I wondered if indeed I had become that kind of mother.

I think it is very good to step back and really define when helping becomes controlling, when being nice is more than a gesture.
You've taken a great first step and it's really good work to seek the advice of your group.
I think I need to seek some advice about boundaries!

clatono

You guys already predicted it....my son sent me a text today and mentioned he and his wife are going to a Wrestling event saturday night. Told me how excited he is, etc. Then he conveniently slipped in "A 75.00 or 100.00 Visa gift card would be awesome because I want to buy a t-shirt or some memorabilia"! I responded by totally skipping over the part about the gift card. I said "I am so excited that you guys get to go on a date and that she got off work...have a wonderful time"!

It worked, because he hasn't mentioned it again. But then today, I spoke with my daughter-in-law and she said that she told him that from now on...they will pay bills together. She said my son has been paying bills late, etc. She said he called her today and said the cable was cut off. She told him to go and pay it using their debit card, because the money is there. But then I got a text from him almost 10 minutes after she and I talked and he said "Well...cable got cut off. I paid it but now I am flat broke"! If that isn't a manipulating text...I don't know what is! But...I chose not to allow it to make me feel like I should offer money. I told him that I was sorry it happened, but that I was sure they would soon be able to get on top of the bills.

Wow! I'm thinking that he will probably have to get out of the habit of asking me or saying manipulative, money-provoking things to me...just like I have to get out of the habit of responding by giving him money? We will get there and I'm so grateful I have you guys to help me through this.

Not only has soberrecovery helped me with my sobriety from hydro's...it's now providing support for me with my son!

Thanks...all of you that responded!

Awesome place to be....

Clatono

NWGRITS

It gets easier with time. He probably won't go peacefully, but he'll go. What's his wife's take on all of this? Just curious.

SoloMio

She is probably getting fed up, too. One of my biggest regrets in life is supporting DH when he asked his mother on several occasions for help with his business. His mother and I were always very similar in a) our desire to see him do well, and b) our delusion that he might actually put the money to good use.

So he would ask her for money--sometimes very large sums--and she would call me and ask me what I thought, and I would stupidly not discourage her giving him money. After all, I wound up over the years giving him about $175,000 for his business and ultimately wound up holding the bag (I'm still paying off his business loans as he has no money of his own)--so it's not like I was telling her to do something I wouldn't do.

That web that these charming, financially irresponsible spiders weave catches a lot of us unsuspecting flies--and it's hard for some of us to get unstuck!

clatono

His wife was allowing him to take care of the bills, because she is an active drinker and suffers from depression. It wasn't until I told her earlier this week, that she learned about just how much money he has been asking me for the past several months. It seems like throughout their 7 years together...there hasn't been one single time when both of them were on the same level in life. When one is up, the other goes down and bottoms out and vice versa! I'm wondering if this is the norm when two alcoholics are married or in a relationship? Right now, she has a job, her depression has lifted because she finally went to her psychiatrist and got her medications changes and is in counseling. However, my son says she is drinking again...once a week, about 5 or 6 beers. He doesn't like it, but he isn't giving her grief over it either. That's the AA way...if it gets unbearable for him to be around the alcohol, then he says he will tell her to either stop or he will leave. My son is down a bit right now, but he is still sober from alcohol, and for that I am grateful!

It is my prayer that they both will stay afloat this time together, and grow in God strength as well as one another's strength and love.

And...I got a text from him about 30 minutes ago, asking for me to "make a deal" with him so they can pay the rent on time. ugh.....

If I will pay their rent on Monday, he will give me all of his unemployment on Wednesday when he gets it. This will pay me back.

This is very hard for me....I'm trying to remain stoic!

Blessings,

Clatono

FireSprite

Perhaps he can offer the same promise to his landlord & see if he can buy himself a grace period?

Congrats on your sobriety & your recovery as a Codie!

clatono

That's actually a great idea! I'll suggest it to him....

Thanks for the congrats! I feel so much better...I have days that my osteoarthritis has me so sore and stiff that I wish I could take one or two. However, I am an addict and Codie's are not an option for me...PERIOD! I have found that epson salt baths help immensely when I have those days.

Grateful for my continued recovery and my sons!

NWGRITS

Oyyyy... it gets deeper. I'm sorry you're dealing with not just your son, but his AW too. (((Hugs)))

Hawkeye13

Yes--I don't think you should "make a deal".
I used to be a landlord, and I don't think a few days is unreasonable.
They won't find a reason not to pay him, but they might say they can't pay you
back on time and then you have a bigger issue.

They have gotten used to tapping you for money so there will be
uncomfortable "belt-tightening" but I truly believe this is an important part
of the process.

If you give in once, they will keep asking.

You are doing a fantastic job with this, by the way,
showing compassion, but seeing right through the manipulations.

Fandy

respectfully snipped for space....

(for some reason I want to call you Cilantro)

I thought I took the prize for enabling....in the past year I have given my 33 year old married daughter the following....

10K lump sum to pay her back taxes on a house she lives in that has no mortgage...(she owns it as her father died and left to her), she sold another house he owned with no mortgage, I don't know what happened to that $$ either.

$2,800. to stop her from losing the vacation time share her father left to her, with her PROMISE we would take a nice vacation trip together...never happened.

my car that was 12 years old but only had 42,000 miles on it, she and hubby sold it for $3,800. that abled him to get get a truck for work...he is a licensed electrician, just passed the exam.

groceries totaling over $500., a dress from Nordstrom for $200 for a wedding, $500. check for Xmas plus giftcards, gifts, etc. $75.00 check for a prime rib roast for Xmas dinner plus a fancy roasting pan to cook it in....I unexpectedly got sick last Xmas eve with some severe stomach flu and missed Xmas completely...I was told that I did this "on purpose"...we never exchanged gifts until I sent the box of gifts home with my son in law. I tried several times to meet up with her for her birthday in January-May, but she is "too busy".

I asked my son in law to do some electrical work for me which he did with no problem, it was extensive and he purchased the new switch box, cable wiring to run 220 lines, etc....She called me up and screeched at me that "this cost her $300 and this was my Xmas gift". she then screeched about the couch I gave her right out of my living room...(I was having major construction done and needed to move it, she wanted it, it iwas not a problem for me, it was 5 years old and in very good condition, I would have kept it for a couple of more years).

Now that she manipulated all the $$ she can out of me and the Bank of Mama is closed up, she tells me "we can't have a relationship until I pay for therapy and counseling for BOTH OF US".... I was told that I can't buy her??? (but she has never offered to give it back).

my brain has switched back on thankfully...I told her that by all means if she feels that she needs therapy she should go, I have better things to do with my time and $$, my health insurance covers me, she can go and complain about her mama on her own dime.

I think I typed this out for me as much as I did to tell you that you are not alone....but I too sent an email to her and her hubby saying

"in retrospect, I should have not reacted to you about to lose your home for UNPAID REAL ESTATE TAXES", I should have just given you $$ for that for Xmas, but you were so very distraught"....(she had screeched at me for WEEKS to give her $$ after I sold her grandmother's house).

Now the 2 of them are both working fulltime, she tells me how well they are doing....she went out and leased a very expensive car at a high interest rate, their house is falling apart, she goes to California to attend a wedding, but she can't afford cable TV, she has a hole in her bathroom floor.

I simply can't even stand to be around her, I am disgusted with the way she acts. She has issues with alcohol and does not take care of herself, she and her husband fight all the time, she tells me one story, he claims it is opposite, I don't wan't to be involved, but I get a strong sense that she is lying, not him.

so time will tell and reveal more, it might be a while. I am ok with NOT saving her, I won't do that again.

Mountainmanbob

that is not much of a weekly budget money (so as to do whatever you wish with it)

your son is sober a year now and needs to cut the apron strings

if he's not willing then you need to cut them

help him so as to (put his big boy pants on)

MM

clatono

Wow! Thank you so much for sharing all of this with me. You remember things so well...did you keep a list of things? I often wish I would have written things down, however I might be more than shocked at the amount of money I've given him.

I like your comment "Bank of Mama" is closed up! lol

He knows I get my $100.00 budget money on Mondays and has already sent me a text asking for it! What part of "no" does he not understand?

clatono

It really isn't much...however, I am thankful for any amount. I like to save it for emergencies with him not being one of those all of the time! He knows I get my budget money on Mondays...and has already sent me at text with all of the reasons why he needs it!!!! I cannot understand his nerve. I'm speechless

"No...you cannot have my budget money! Didn't I text you a week ago saying no more money"?

So frustrated right now.

clatono

(for some reason I want to call you Cilantro).... hahahaha! You can call me Cilantro...I like it!

hopeful4

The word NO is a complete sentence, don't forget that! Just remember, each time you do anything for him financially you are holding him back. Time to man up!

Fandy

when I have had enough I simply block her email and phone number from my cell phone. She can call the land line at home and the voice message from house phone goes to my email...or she can call my office number.

her husband's email and phone numbers are not blocked. i keep track of everything because I want to know where all the $$ went that I spend..I am accountable to myself and don't need to be be handing out to her when it is damnwell time she takes care of her own stuff. she is an adult, she can act like one.

I don't begrudge the $$ that I intended for gifts, but the entitled attitude and rudeness infuriates me to the point where I want to shake her until her teeth fall out.

Recovering2

Clatano....you're doing great!

He will continue to find new and interesting ways to try and pull you back in for awhile. You've only started setting your boundary, it will take time for him to understand this is the new norm. Try not to get frustrated when he asks for money, just say "No".

My Sponsor always reminds me about my hoola hoop. What is inside that hoop is mine. Anything outside the hoola hoop.....not my issue or business. Your son's agreement with HIS landlord about HIS rent for the place HE lives is outside YOUR hoola hoop! YOUR money at the start of YOUR week and how YOU use it is inside YOUR hoola hoop.

Stay strong....it does get easier, but not overnight.

clatono

Trying my best to stay in my hula hoop and not allow anyone else in with me! My gosh...he never gives up! I was asked, yet again, to give my $100.00 budget money to him because he needed toilet paper, etc. I asked him what the etc. was, and he said "toothpaste, epson salt, generic prilosec, shampoo". So...I had CVS extrrabucks and went to CVS, bought what he needed and gave it to him when he came by to see me! That was my way of not giving him money...directly, that is!