Got her out, now what?
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Steelman, you said earlier that you had lost your trust in her. So why would one email be enough for you to regain that trust?
I don't know for sure if she is playing head games with you or not but it doesn't mean you can't take steps to protect yourself. If you get divorced and she actually works a program and gets recovery well then you can just remarry if you want.
One thing it took me a long time to understand was that marriage is not a mutual suicide pact. It is ok to take care of yourself, more than ok it is a requirement.
Your friend,
I don't know for sure if she is playing head games with you or not but it doesn't mean you can't take steps to protect yourself. If you get divorced and she actually works a program and gets recovery well then you can just remarry if you want.
One thing it took me a long time to understand was that marriage is not a mutual suicide pact. It is ok to take care of yourself, more than ok it is a requirement.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Bright Side of the Moon
Posts: 528
It is so much harder on your end, SM. It is. It gets easier though. You keep hanging around here though and you start to open your eyes to truth and new approaches. You see what other people put up with and you want better for them, so then, to avoid feeling like a hypocrite, you start reassuring yourself the way you wish these other broken hearts will treat themselves. At least that's how it's been for me.
It is so hard, but it gets easier. You will start to feel better if you protect yourself.
It is so hard, but it gets easier. You will start to feel better if you protect yourself.
Guest
Join Date: May 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 38
Oh Steelman...it must be hard. Everybody here has been in your position somewhere in there life with their A so that's why they can see. When they were going through it, it wasn't easy for them either. I know it's not for me. It's easier to see when you look at the big picture and when you've been through it. Everyone cares what happens to you and are letting you know their experience.
If you read her letter with clear glasses, she didn't own up to what she has done to you and put you through. You've told her many time how much she has hurt you but she kept doing it over and over again but because her friend said it, she now realizes it? Really? Your words weren't good enough? She doesn't want to move in to her parents house she even says it in her letter. She is trying to do what she can to keep what she has and what she has been doing.
I hope nod wish you strength to do what is best for you. Huggggggggggggg
If you read her letter with clear glasses, she didn't own up to what she has done to you and put you through. You've told her many time how much she has hurt you but she kept doing it over and over again but because her friend said it, she now realizes it? Really? Your words weren't good enough? She doesn't want to move in to her parents house she even says it in her letter. She is trying to do what she can to keep what she has and what she has been doing.
I hope nod wish you strength to do what is best for you. Huggggggggggggg
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
I want to be there for you through everything and help be a part of you becoming the person you want to be.
Not one single word of apology. Not one single acknowledgement of her problem, not one single commitment to change.
I hope you can see in this letter that she is not taking any responsibility for her actions.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Originally Posted by steelman1649 
She must be reading my mind...just got this email.
I was actually going to sit down and talk with you this weekend. I know I’m not good at the whole talking about my feelings thing, but I’ve really been thinking here lately.
I don’t know what’s wrong with me. Maybe I’m just scared of getting older and what comes with it. Maybe I’m that insecure. This doesn’t have anything to do with me not wanting to go back to my parents either. I was actually talking about this all with Shannon the other day and she helped me realize a few things.
In the end, I love you and you love me. No matter what we fight about, I would die for you and you for me. You are and have always been my top priority and I’ve done a ****-poor job of showing and proving that to you…. but you are and you’re always going to be.
I know I’ve always said no to counseling, but I would totally want to do it if that is what it took. No more lies, no hiding, no anything. I really don’t want to bring you down or be the reason you feel bad about yourself. I want to be there for you through everything and help be a part of you becoming the person you want to be.
I know we’ve been through this god knows how many times, but I guess ‘do or die’ time is here. I just hate that it took all this for me to actually realize all this. We’ll do counseling, we can move somewhere else for a job opportunity and start fresh. Wherever and whatever you want just so long as it’s us.
And this is why I wanted to talk this weekend. Now I’m trying not to bawl like a little bi*** at my desk
I was actually going to sit down and talk with you this weekend. I know I’m not good at the whole talking about my feelings thing, but I’ve really been thinking here lately.
I don’t know what’s wrong with me. Maybe I’m just scared of getting older and what comes with it. Maybe I’m that insecure. This doesn’t have anything to do with me not wanting to go back to my parents either. I was actually talking about this all with Shannon the other day and she helped me realize a few things.
In the end, I love you and you love me. No matter what we fight about, I would die for you and you for me. You are and have always been my top priority and I’ve done a ****-poor job of showing and proving that to you…. but you are and you’re always going to be.
I know I’ve always said no to counseling, but I would totally want to do it if that is what it took. No more lies, no hiding, no anything. I really don’t want to bring you down or be the reason you feel bad about yourself. I want to be there for you through everything and help be a part of you becoming the person you want to be.
I know we’ve been through this god knows how many times, but I guess ‘do or die’ time is here. I just hate that it took all this for me to actually realize all this. We’ll do counseling, we can move somewhere else for a job opportunity and start fresh. Wherever and whatever you want just so long as it’s us.
And this is why I wanted to talk this weekend. Now I’m trying not to bawl like a little bi*** at my desk
Steelman, you seem like a pretty nice guy. You are married to a girl who treats you like dirt, beneath her and generally disrespects you. She is NOT worth it. Nice guys can find nice girls, but not while you are keeping time with an A. There are way more women than men around, so the odds are in your favor. I personally know of so many nice women who are single. Not because they are ugly or mean or bad in any way, but because there are just not enough nice guys around. Whenever I see a decent man waste his time with someone not great, I always think, "WHY? You have so many better options?"
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 303
Oh wow, does her email trigger me. I have read that email so many hundreds of times before. Right down to the putting words in my mouth. So flipping controlling. No responsibility. Poor me. Argh!!!!
I'm actually incredibly thankful you posted it because everyone is seeing through it so clearly. Every time I see that I'm not alone in dealing with the crazy, it helps me get a bit stronger.
I'm actually incredibly thankful you posted it because everyone is seeing through it so clearly. Every time I see that I'm not alone in dealing with the crazy, it helps me get a bit stronger.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
SM, thanks for sharing that email. Swap a few names and places, and it could be anyone else's.
It's very hard to see through the heart string tugs. For me, I wanted to believe so badly. And it all made sense and sounded so good. I'd been waiting for this!
Someone very kindly pointed out to me...
True change looks like:
I'm so sorry
I'm sorry for x, y, and z (very explicit)
I don't know if you'll forgive me, that might take time and I accept that
Here are the explicit things I'm changing now to correct things
I am taking the first step (and DOING it)
No you-messages at all. No strange feeling in your gut that you feel "bad" even though they're apologizing, no demands at all on you or subtle requests that you need to change in some way, or working on "us". Nothing vague, nothing pushing accountability to you.
I never got this.
I pretended I did. That never quite worked and left me more and more hurt.
And in hindsight it's so, so clear! But in the thick of things your brain is so muddled it's hard to see objectively. That's one reason people recommend space for YOU. I kept thinking space might mean the end of us and I was willing to hold on, muscle through, and fight. Ultimately, space cleared my head just like all these wise folks said it would. So if I can gently recommend anything, it might be some space. She has a lot of work to do, and you need time to recenter too.
Hugs!!!
It's very hard to see through the heart string tugs. For me, I wanted to believe so badly. And it all made sense and sounded so good. I'd been waiting for this!
Someone very kindly pointed out to me...
True change looks like:
I'm so sorry
I'm sorry for x, y, and z (very explicit)
I don't know if you'll forgive me, that might take time and I accept that
Here are the explicit things I'm changing now to correct things
I am taking the first step (and DOING it)
No you-messages at all. No strange feeling in your gut that you feel "bad" even though they're apologizing, no demands at all on you or subtle requests that you need to change in some way, or working on "us". Nothing vague, nothing pushing accountability to you.
I never got this.
I pretended I did. That never quite worked and left me more and more hurt.
And in hindsight it's so, so clear! But in the thick of things your brain is so muddled it's hard to see objectively. That's one reason people recommend space for YOU. I kept thinking space might mean the end of us and I was willing to hold on, muscle through, and fight. Ultimately, space cleared my head just like all these wise folks said it would. So if I can gently recommend anything, it might be some space. She has a lot of work to do, and you need time to recenter too.
Hugs!!!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
"One thing it took me a long time to understand was that marriage is not a mutual suicide pact. It is ok to take care of yourself, more than ok it is a requirement."
I was going to say... The "I would die for you and you for me" language is pretty dramatic. I'd never ask another person to DIE for me, or to be so subsumed by my drama that they gave up all that they are to be with me/save me/sustain me.
But that's exactly what the addict/codependent thing is all about.
This woman cheated on you, and you know that in addition to drinking she is also using illegal drugs.
She's putting on a typical Hope Show. My ex did this kabuki dance so many times I can't count. Eventually, presented with the evidence of what he was likely to do based on his patterns of behavior, I was empowered with the information and knowledge to make a choice that works for me. People can and do turn it around, but it involves way more action than promises.
I was going to say... The "I would die for you and you for me" language is pretty dramatic. I'd never ask another person to DIE for me, or to be so subsumed by my drama that they gave up all that they are to be with me/save me/sustain me.
But that's exactly what the addict/codependent thing is all about.
This woman cheated on you, and you know that in addition to drinking she is also using illegal drugs.
She's putting on a typical Hope Show. My ex did this kabuki dance so many times I can't count. Eventually, presented with the evidence of what he was likely to do based on his patterns of behavior, I was empowered with the information and knowledge to make a choice that works for me. People can and do turn it around, but it involves way more action than promises.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Boise, id
Posts: 33
I'm sorry to hear your going through this, I am new here but I kniw how u can feel responsable for her and u feel gulity like ur leaving her with no support, but I believe.in the end when u let go its so much easyer and u can move on with ur life. I'm younge with 2 children and one on the way and he left us and still I fell responsiable for him. I pray u fund strength through this. Id also suggust looking up enabling and codependency, I did and it helped open my eyes. Sorry I don't have more advise, hope all ends well and in ur favor.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 4,225
Originally Posted by steelman1649
I must admit this has really thrown me for a loop. I think you all are reading between the lines correctly, but it's so much harder on this end.
I'm sorry, but when I read back on your previous posts, you are so deeply addicted to this relationship and are refusing to separate yourself from it, even when it's glaringly obvious it's decimating your life.
Your relationship is the exact dance an addict/alcoholic makes in refusing to let go of their poison of choice. Maybe this time will be different...etc etc etc. I'm not going to play the song, Steelman, because you already know it so well.
My question is....right at you....why are you posting here? Because you don't sound ready to give your "addiction" up. You are barely a week into your 100th resolution to end it....and are already back-pedalling.
I'm saying none of this to hurt you, but this is staring you in the face....read back through your posts since October...REALLY READ them.
October - she's moved back, but still telling you she's not sure what she wants.
November - blackout drunk at her enabling parents house
January - yet again you ask her to leave
February - she's refusing therapy
March - questionable things happened when you were in Vegas and you are now sleeping on the couch
May - she has a job offer on the table, exactly what she wanted, but now she doesn't want to leave her work. The place where the 19 year old she had an affair with is.
June 15 - you tracked her in another town
And now, she's all ready to change? No, she's been cut off from her free ride.
And the way it all seems, you can't bear to be without her either.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
Originally Posted by steelman1649
I must admit this has really thrown me for a loop. I think you all are reading between the lines correctly, but it's so much harder on this end.
What caught my attention was the counseling part and how NOW she would go if that's what it would take. TAKE? Take to do what exactly? I don't have enough fingers or toes to count the number of addicts who promise to go to counseling in hopes of stopping a divorce or relationship ending. They may go once or twice but their real motives had already worked, proceedings stop, people don't leave them and the dance they are so familiar with begins once again.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: indiana
Posts: 158
She came over this weekend and I let her do all the talking (which is new). I stoodfast and simply listened to her. It is a lot of "talk", but there was reflection and accountability that has never existed before. I do still love her and hope that everything she says is true, but there is a very high percentage that she falls back on old ways. How do I allow time for her "actions" to speak?
I was considering one option:
Still want to protect myself and have an exit strategy. I could let her move back and and prove herself. I would need to file for divorce now regardless, she would need to sign the settlement agreement and waiver of hearing. Basically enabling me to finalize the divorce at anytime I don't want to continue. We would still sell her car and buy a daily driver. She pays her own insurance, tags, registration, etc.
I think this would protect me and allow for her true colors to surface. I know some of you are going to rip me a new one for even considering this, but honest feedback is whatn I need.
Thanks for listening.
I was considering one option:
Still want to protect myself and have an exit strategy. I could let her move back and and prove herself. I would need to file for divorce now regardless, she would need to sign the settlement agreement and waiver of hearing. Basically enabling me to finalize the divorce at anytime I don't want to continue. We would still sell her car and buy a daily driver. She pays her own insurance, tags, registration, etc.
I think this would protect me and allow for her true colors to surface. I know some of you are going to rip me a new one for even considering this, but honest feedback is whatn I need.
Thanks for listening.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Just my opinion, but I don't think you gain any perspective while she is living there. An honest separation with limited contact is the only thing that will clear your head. If she truly wants to change, it won't be contingent on the living situation.
Again, only my opinion, but allowing her back in is the one thing that WON'T let you see honest change.
Again, only my opinion, but allowing her back in is the one thing that WON'T let you see honest change.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 4,225
Steelman, it's your life, you have to do what works for you. Again, I know my post was direct, but I can only speak from honesty - there's no reason for me to tell it any way other way.
I simply do not trust her based on her past behaviours at all. I totally get that a person deserves a chance to redeem themselves, but that was maybe, maybe.... 8 months ago, if that.
I guess if you want to go back, that perhaps the concept of being used and essentially being "cuckolded" is ok with you? I'm not being a smart mouth here, I just cannot see how one could put their cheek back out to be slapped again.....and then again, and then again. And so on.
I simply do not trust her based on her past behaviours at all. I totally get that a person deserves a chance to redeem themselves, but that was maybe, maybe.... 8 months ago, if that.
I guess if you want to go back, that perhaps the concept of being used and essentially being "cuckolded" is ok with you? I'm not being a smart mouth here, I just cannot see how one could put their cheek back out to be slapped again.....and then again, and then again. And so on.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,781
I guess my question is, why does she have to move back in to prove herself? Why can't she do that from her own apartment, where she pays her own bills & all that you have listed above?
Here's the thing about perspective: You are sitting in the middle of the chaos, trying to find your way out of the labyrinth while dealing with all the little nasty surprises that keep popping up along the way. We, the People of SR,(
) have the benefit of being in an air rescue helicopter, hovering above you & our view is a lot clearer.
Rarely do we see someone with such a manageable exit plan to the chaos. No children, a fairly agreed-upon settlement, early enough in her addiction that you haven't suffered long-lasting effects (bankruptcy, custody/safety issues with kids, legal battles & fees)... & optimistically speaking, she's still possibly early enough in her own addiction that if she REALLY means it, she can turn her whole life around by embracing recovery right now.
So from my perspective, I still say that separating & protecting yourself does not in any way preclude you both from working healthy recoveries & reconciling your issues. And if it doesn't work out, you'll have managed the legalities before things get more out of control... because the one constant factor is that alcoholism is progressive. Everything else is a choice, and most of those choices are out of your control.
Here's the thing about perspective: You are sitting in the middle of the chaos, trying to find your way out of the labyrinth while dealing with all the little nasty surprises that keep popping up along the way. We, the People of SR,(
) have the benefit of being in an air rescue helicopter, hovering above you & our view is a lot clearer. Rarely do we see someone with such a manageable exit plan to the chaos. No children, a fairly agreed-upon settlement, early enough in her addiction that you haven't suffered long-lasting effects (bankruptcy, custody/safety issues with kids, legal battles & fees)... & optimistically speaking, she's still possibly early enough in her own addiction that if she REALLY means it, she can turn her whole life around by embracing recovery right now.
So from my perspective, I still say that separating & protecting yourself does not in any way preclude you both from working healthy recoveries & reconciling your issues. And if it doesn't work out, you'll have managed the legalities before things get more out of control... because the one constant factor is that alcoholism is progressive. Everything else is a choice, and most of those choices are out of your control.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: indiana
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
Just my opinion, but I don't think you gain any perspective while she is living there. An honest separation with limited contact is the only thing that will clear your head. If she truly wants to change, it won't be contingent on the living situation.
Again, only my opinion, but allowing her back in is the one thing that WON'T let you see honest change.
Again, only my opinion, but allowing her back in is the one thing that WON'T let you see honest change.
I just dont want to see all this change and then she moves back in and whooops...the day to day living is quite different.
does that make sense?
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,781
Originally Posted by steelman1649
The only problem with that approach is it will be hard to see how she is doing in short bursts. Anyone can behave well on a "date night" once a week. I want to know how she performs on a daily basis and in a living arrangement.
I just dont want to see all this change and then she moves back in and whooops...the day to day living is quite different.
does that make sense?
I just dont want to see all this change and then she moves back in and whooops...the day to day living is quite different.
does that make sense?
It might be a good opportunity for you to take a step back & look at some of your own possible Codie issues as well; I don't think that your AW is the only one in this scenario that could benefit from some introspection SM. JMHO.
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