Let's Talk About "Normal"
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Originally Posted by lillamy 
Here's what I'm hearing: You're feeling abandoned, alone, and afraid in dealing with your daughter. (And angry.)
That's all normal, I think. Wanting your spouse to co-parent with you is normal. It's just one of those things where you think WTAF, man -- can't you even step up to the plate for this? And maybe he can't. Maybe he's simply not capable of thinking of her before himself.
I think it's wise to not leave him alone with her. And you can do it on your own. It hurts. It's infuriating. But you are capable. (((hugs)))
That's all normal, I think. Wanting your spouse to co-parent with you is normal. It's just one of those things where you think WTAF, man -- can't you even step up to the plate for this? And maybe he can't. Maybe he's simply not capable of thinking of her before himself.
I think it's wise to not leave him alone with her. And you can do it on your own. It hurts. It's infuriating. But you are capable. (((hugs)))
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That's great you are wanting more normal stuff. You will get there in time.
When you get triggered, if you can step out of the immediate moment to see what is going on, I think you will find that you begin to see him and the relationship in a different way.
BTW, there are men who do put their wives and children first. You just might not be with one now. However, I also agree with the poster who wrote that his focus is on sobriety right now too.
When you get triggered, if you can step out of the immediate moment to see what is going on, I think you will find that you begin to see him and the relationship in a different way.
BTW, there are men who do put their wives and children first. You just might not be with one now. However, I also agree with the poster who wrote that his focus is on sobriety right now too.
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What lillamy said, all through this thread.
The good news is that this is a "normal" kind of argument folks have in marriages -- the work/life balance, the balance of household and children responsibilities, whether or not we are feeling "heard" in the marriage. In "normal", non-addictive marriages, this kind of conflict is usually handled in an adult, cooperative, way, even in an agree-to-disagree way. But codie/addict marriages are dramatic and high-conflict.
What it came down to for me with my STBXAH is that he was not capable of giving me and the kids what we needed. The reasons why stopped mattering, and so I stopped arguing and started leaving. Eventually being with someone who was completely avoidant -- and argumentative and gaslight-y about it to boot -- was no longer a workable option for me and there was no more discussion to be had, or time limits on when he could and couldn't call me. The door was just closed.
The good news is that this is a "normal" kind of argument folks have in marriages -- the work/life balance, the balance of household and children responsibilities, whether or not we are feeling "heard" in the marriage. In "normal", non-addictive marriages, this kind of conflict is usually handled in an adult, cooperative, way, even in an agree-to-disagree way. But codie/addict marriages are dramatic and high-conflict.
What it came down to for me with my STBXAH is that he was not capable of giving me and the kids what we needed. The reasons why stopped mattering, and so I stopped arguing and started leaving. Eventually being with someone who was completely avoidant -- and argumentative and gaslight-y about it to boot -- was no longer a workable option for me and there was no more discussion to be had, or time limits on when he could and couldn't call me. The door was just closed.
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Uggh well I am sure this will seem sexist but I see this type of behavior often in males and having nothing to do with Alcoholism.
My sister was telling me the other day her husband never once cleaned up baby vomit. Refused to. My brother - I don't see him taking the babies to doctor or handling the squeamish side of things.
I think it sucks.
My sister was telling me the other day her husband never once cleaned up baby vomit. Refused to. My brother - I don't see him taking the babies to doctor or handling the squeamish side of things.
I think it sucks.
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Lol---Dr. Phil has admitted that he changed only one diaper...for the first child, only.
Basically, he is a kind of workaholic guy who leaves the entirety of domestic and child care to his wife. He brings home the bacon.
This is just an example that this kind of allocation of family roles is very common.
It made me crazy in my first marriage!
The culture is easing up a bit on this. But, I think that one has to be willing to go against the grain and be willing to work out their own particular approach to this with their partner. You do have to have a willing partner, though....and, I don't think all men are open to such change.
I am in absolute agreement--that not all ills can be blamed o n the alcoholism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dandylion
Basically, he is a kind of workaholic guy who leaves the entirety of domestic and child care to his wife. He brings home the bacon.
This is just an example that this kind of allocation of family roles is very common.
It made me crazy in my first marriage!
The culture is easing up a bit on this. But, I think that one has to be willing to go against the grain and be willing to work out their own particular approach to this with their partner. You do have to have a willing partner, though....and, I don't think all men are open to such change.
I am in absolute agreement--that not all ills can be blamed o n the alcoholism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dandylion
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Stung you are in an awful situation and it is terrible that a parent would treat a child the way your husband is. Do your best to accept things as they are and not let it destroy you and like others have said don't trust him with your baby girl, you're all she has. A lot easier said than done, however we are all rootin for ya. 
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What it came down to for me with my STBXAH is that he was not capable of giving me and the kids what we needed. The reasons why stopped mattering, and so I stopped arguing and started leaving. Eventually being with someone who was completely avoidant -- and argumentative and gaslight-y about it to boot -- was no longer a workable option for me and there was no more discussion to be had, or time limits on when he could and couldn't call me. The door was just closed.
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Okay. My feelings are hurt again. He normally spends the night on Thursdays but tonight he isn't coming over at all. Stating that this is about him and he feels uncomfortable and unwelcome here, but it has nothing to do with me. Well, okay. I'm not going to change anything I'm doing to cater to him at this point so yes, his discomfort is on him. But gosh, he's not even going to attempt to see our kids? The single parent stuff is what really hurts my feelings and I know there are a LOT of moms that do the "married single parent" thing by pure logistics. But that's because (at least I feel that this covers the majority) the other parent CAN'T be there. RAH is straight up choosing to not be here. Nothing is keeping him from his kids but him. What a jerk!!!
My super defensive, dysfunctional side wants to tell him "good!! We're so much happier without you here anyway! I'm glad you feel unwelcome! Mission accomplished!!" But my feelings are hurt. I want him to be here for our kids if nothing else. I mean how much energy does it take to come here, read a few bedtime stories to our kids and then leave? I feel super rejected and worse I feel like he's rejecting our kids. And they're amazing kids so I know its his loss but my feelings are still hurt. He's a dummy.
My super defensive, dysfunctional side wants to tell him "good!! We're so much happier without you here anyway! I'm glad you feel unwelcome! Mission accomplished!!" But my feelings are hurt. I want him to be here for our kids if nothing else. I mean how much energy does it take to come here, read a few bedtime stories to our kids and then leave? I feel super rejected and worse I feel like he's rejecting our kids. And they're amazing kids so I know its his loss but my feelings are still hurt. He's a dummy.
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I am sorry you are feeling hurt. You have the short end of the stick in some ways. When I feel rejected or trapped, then I try to remember that it is not forever and whatever is going on now will not be happening later so better enjoy it as much as I can at the moment or at least learn what I can from it.
Maybe he has stuff to sort out too. Not feeling sorry for him, but staying long term in a hotel must feel pathetic, especially since he knows his poor behavior caused it. There are so many possibilities for why he feels badly. If he is doing his stuff with his sponsor, therapy and AA, then he is at least doing something healthy. Some folks say similar stuff when they are planning to drink too, FYI.
Maybe he has stuff to sort out too. Not feeling sorry for him, but staying long term in a hotel must feel pathetic, especially since he knows his poor behavior caused it. There are so many possibilities for why he feels badly. If he is doing his stuff with his sponsor, therapy and AA, then he is at least doing something healthy. Some folks say similar stuff when they are planning to drink too, FYI.
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Stating that this is about him and he feels uncomfortable and unwelcome here, but it has nothing to do with me.
As for the feeling hurt on behalf of the kids -- it's hard for them to figure out. But it is what it is. I hate that saying, but it's really true. There's nothing you can do to force him to be a good father, any more than you could force him to become a sober husband. It is heartbreaking to see, but he will either get it and rebuild his relationship with the kids or he won't.
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Sorry..but BS to this cultural norm of Dad just bringing home an income and considering that fills the responsibility for home and family.
I have no truck with those chauvinists and they would certainly have a problem with me.
I consider his behavior neglectful and over an important medical issue with his own child makes it worse.
Having had a similar situation with my X, I have very strong feelings about this.
I would feel like, so okay, just send me the paycheck and sleep on the couch at work.
I have no truck with those chauvinists and they would certainly have a problem with me.
I consider his behavior neglectful and over an important medical issue with his own child makes it worse.
Having had a similar situation with my X, I have very strong feelings about this.
I would feel like, so okay, just send me the paycheck and sleep on the couch at work.
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Live, I think dads not helping much with their own children is an old school train of thought and cultural, depending on where you reside. It's not what I think is "normal" either. I don't think both parents regularly attend routine doctor visits but I did/do expect my husband to help with child rearing and before he became a complete and utter man child he was doing all diaper changes on weekends and doing bath time/bedtime routine on the nights he was home in time. In my circle of mommy friends that's either the norm or way above and beyond. Some men never change diapers, some get up in the wee hours to change them. My husband was the later with our first child but he's been pretty much MIA with our second child. I'd happily take a man that refused to change diapers over what my husband has been this past year.
I spoke with him and he was wallowing in his own self pity and selfishness. "I'm too embarrassed to be in your home." Then when I told him that I don't give a flying F that he relapsed a couple weeks ago as long as he stopped being such a little biotch about it, then he started being indignant with me. Whatever. He feels like crap, he knows he feels like crap and instead of calling his sponsor, calling his AA friends, going to a meeting, meditating, reading, learning a new language, reading the damn news he decides to call me in the hopes that he'll either A. pick a fight with me or B. I'll feel sorry for him too. Nope. Called the wrong angry woman, dude. I asked him to apologize for the "unwelcome and uncomfortable" comments because those are accusations, not feelings. This is my home and saying that he is unwelcome is insinuating that I have some part in that (thank you for pointing that out to me, Amy, it felt wrong when he said it to me the first time and I couldn't see beyond my own defensiveness), and I don't. It's all him thinking about himself non stop and trying to bring me into his unhealthy ways. Misery loves company.
On first glance this probably seems really codie however I think it's leaning more towards flat out controlling, BUT I'm going to text his sponsor tomorrow and let him know how much RAH keeps avoiding me and our children. Someone besides me needs to tell him that eventually I'm going to get real sick of this crap and realize that him avoiding us (and then blaming me for him avoiding us) is actually worse than just being divorced. Either stop being such an indignant, scared little man child or work your program and actually enjoy the really awesome life you have!! Seems like a really easy choice to me!
I spoke with him and he was wallowing in his own self pity and selfishness. "I'm too embarrassed to be in your home." Then when I told him that I don't give a flying F that he relapsed a couple weeks ago as long as he stopped being such a little biotch about it, then he started being indignant with me. Whatever. He feels like crap, he knows he feels like crap and instead of calling his sponsor, calling his AA friends, going to a meeting, meditating, reading, learning a new language, reading the damn news he decides to call me in the hopes that he'll either A. pick a fight with me or B. I'll feel sorry for him too. Nope. Called the wrong angry woman, dude. I asked him to apologize for the "unwelcome and uncomfortable" comments because those are accusations, not feelings. This is my home and saying that he is unwelcome is insinuating that I have some part in that (thank you for pointing that out to me, Amy, it felt wrong when he said it to me the first time and I couldn't see beyond my own defensiveness), and I don't. It's all him thinking about himself non stop and trying to bring me into his unhealthy ways. Misery loves company.
On first glance this probably seems really codie however I think it's leaning more towards flat out controlling, BUT I'm going to text his sponsor tomorrow and let him know how much RAH keeps avoiding me and our children. Someone besides me needs to tell him that eventually I'm going to get real sick of this crap and realize that him avoiding us (and then blaming me for him avoiding us) is actually worse than just being divorced. Either stop being such an indignant, scared little man child or work your program and actually enjoy the really awesome life you have!! Seems like a really easy choice to me!
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The times I must needed xah were the times he would totally check out.
So stupid that each time for so long I would try every trick to get him to be there for me. Nothing worked.
Eventually, I began distancing myself from him. He was drunk when our fourth child was conceived and absent during labor. When DD14 fell out of a tree, he refused to call an ambulance. Long story short, she and I were helicoptered to the city hospital while he stood back and took photos 😳 I eventually saw that the children and I did better without him. And here we are. On our own.
What is he telling you by his actions? Best listen up.
So stupid that each time for so long I would try every trick to get him to be there for me. Nothing worked.
Eventually, I began distancing myself from him. He was drunk when our fourth child was conceived and absent during labor. When DD14 fell out of a tree, he refused to call an ambulance. Long story short, she and I were helicoptered to the city hospital while he stood back and took photos 😳 I eventually saw that the children and I did better without him. And here we are. On our own.
What is he telling you by his actions? Best listen up.
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I'm sorry this has been so difficult lately.
Do you think the "honeymoon" period you both had recently might have led to to have
beliefs / expectations that your husband was further in his recovery than he actually is?
Pippi's made a good observation--listen up to his actions and maybe revise your expectations. You keep getting hurt and that isn't good.
Do you think the "honeymoon" period you both had recently might have led to to have
beliefs / expectations that your husband was further in his recovery than he actually is?
Pippi's made a good observation--listen up to his actions and maybe revise your expectations. You keep getting hurt and that isn't good.
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Originally Posted by Stung
I'm going to get real sick of this crap and realize that him avoiding us (and then blaming me for him avoiding us) is actually worse than just being divorced.!
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I'm just trying to not engage with him anymore and I'm accepting that he's more or less useless in the parenting realm. I can leave our girls with him to hit an alanon meeting but that's about the extent of his involvement. He just isn't capable of more than that. Now that I know this I'm able to dial down my expectations a lot.
I think my wants and needs are normalish but I'm asking a sick person to meet my needs. Then I ask him to meet the needs and wants of our kids like that's any different. He just isn't capable of doing those things and apparently he isn't capable of clearly communicating that to me either.
I have myself, I have my sponsor and I have my group of friends that I'm going to start referring to as my "chosen family." I don't need AH and our kids don't need AH. I do want him (our daughters obviously love him too) but I need to keep editing my expectations based on his actions. Right now he's just white knuckling. So he's basically useless to me on all fronts.
I think my wants and needs are normalish but I'm asking a sick person to meet my needs. Then I ask him to meet the needs and wants of our kids like that's any different. He just isn't capable of doing those things and apparently he isn't capable of clearly communicating that to me either.
I have myself, I have my sponsor and I have my group of friends that I'm going to start referring to as my "chosen family." I don't need AH and our kids don't need AH. I do want him (our daughters obviously love him too) but I need to keep editing my expectations based on his actions. Right now he's just white knuckling. So he's basically useless to me on all fronts.
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