Not sure if I should stay or go
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Originally Posted by Stung 
Oh man, I feel for you. I'm a SAHM too with a 2 year old and 9 month old. I know some other SAHMs that drink during the day, one I strongly suspect is an alcoholic. I don't spend time with her anymore even though she has a heart of gold, her drinking definitely effects the way she treats her kids and she jokes about it to the point where its uncomfortable. Are you doing any individual therapy? That's where I've personally learned (and continue to learn) how to deal with my husband's alcoholism and have a realistic perspective on what I can expect on a daily basis. My number one goal at this point is raising our children to not have any long term detrimental effects from having an alcoholic parent.
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I can speak to the adult child of an alcoholic angle as well. My father was truly high functioning - and still is. He works every day - rarely takes time off, has an impeccable track record of being on time (if I needed to be picked up for something, he was there). He supported us financially and our home was completely stable. Food on the table every day, etc. I could write and write about all the good things. Now here's the upsetting part:
The alcohol - Feelings and communication were like all-together FOREIGN in our home. Boundaries? What do you mean boundaries? We are all tight-knit and tell each other what to do because we're so "close" (yes, too close for comfort that we are enmeshed). This happens because we literally feel like being right it of utmost importance (the only time my father recognized anyone was with success - being right - making the basket, the goal, etc)
I also remember wondering about the last time I saw my father smile. It was like this constant permafrown on his face. When was I genuinely thinking, "he seems happy today", or "holy sh**, he's laughing" - I can COUNT the number of times on one hand. Needless to say, it was often a surprise to see him happy.
I don't feel like i really "KNOW" my father. It is a deep sadness within me. It's like alcohol has erected a frickin' wall between me and him and I don't get to see the real him. Because of his disease I feel rejected, I feel abandoned, I feel betrayed. It doesn't matter how awesome of a mother I had. I still had those feelings in relation to my father - mom didn't have control over that part.
My father doesn't call me on my birthday. He doesn't call me on my anniversary. He sends a check for xmas once a year. I dont' want a da&& check, I want him to act like it matters whether or not I live the next day - like I actually matter. He doesn't know about my efforts to have a child and that we will be trying IVF (he NEVER asks me how I'm doing and shows zero interest). He doesn't ask me to lunch. He doesn't ask me to a movie.
When it comes to my pops, I feel like I'm invisible.
Despite all of that, I love him dearly and am in recovery. I know that this is the disease taking my father away and admittedly it pisses me off. THat's my problem to deal with.
My father didn't hit - he didn't burn, he didn't drive drunk - he didn't put up a red flag of obvious "no-no's". There was definitely some emotional abuse and neglect, but it's so undre the surface that my family members easily deny it away.
If my mom were to ask me what I want from her. I would simply want from her what I don't get from my father. Does she see me? Like REALLY see me. Does she hear me out when I want to talk about it? Does she call me on my b-day, my anniversary, check up on me to say "just thinking of you and how I love you", ask me to lunch, ask me how I'm feeling about my father's drinking? Does she acknowledge how I feel?
Just some things to think about - I'm not your children and I have lived a different life. Some of what I've said might be something to consider, and other might not. Take what you like and leave the rest. Kudos to you if you can jump the BIGGEST hurdle of all - or the FIRST one? That is denial. Your denial might hurt your children. I don't know for sure, but my mother's denial is certainly hurting me, so it could definitely effect how your children feel.
Definitely let them know they're loved and show it.
There's my rant and two cents. Like I said, Kudos for thinking about all of this seriously!
I wish you the best and Good luck.
The alcohol - Feelings and communication were like all-together FOREIGN in our home. Boundaries? What do you mean boundaries? We are all tight-knit and tell each other what to do because we're so "close" (yes, too close for comfort that we are enmeshed). This happens because we literally feel like being right it of utmost importance (the only time my father recognized anyone was with success - being right - making the basket, the goal, etc)
I also remember wondering about the last time I saw my father smile. It was like this constant permafrown on his face. When was I genuinely thinking, "he seems happy today", or "holy sh**, he's laughing" - I can COUNT the number of times on one hand. Needless to say, it was often a surprise to see him happy.
I don't feel like i really "KNOW" my father. It is a deep sadness within me. It's like alcohol has erected a frickin' wall between me and him and I don't get to see the real him. Because of his disease I feel rejected, I feel abandoned, I feel betrayed. It doesn't matter how awesome of a mother I had. I still had those feelings in relation to my father - mom didn't have control over that part.
My father doesn't call me on my birthday. He doesn't call me on my anniversary. He sends a check for xmas once a year. I dont' want a da&& check, I want him to act like it matters whether or not I live the next day - like I actually matter. He doesn't know about my efforts to have a child and that we will be trying IVF (he NEVER asks me how I'm doing and shows zero interest). He doesn't ask me to lunch. He doesn't ask me to a movie.
When it comes to my pops, I feel like I'm invisible.
Despite all of that, I love him dearly and am in recovery. I know that this is the disease taking my father away and admittedly it pisses me off. THat's my problem to deal with.
My father didn't hit - he didn't burn, he didn't drive drunk - he didn't put up a red flag of obvious "no-no's". There was definitely some emotional abuse and neglect, but it's so undre the surface that my family members easily deny it away.
If my mom were to ask me what I want from her. I would simply want from her what I don't get from my father. Does she see me? Like REALLY see me. Does she hear me out when I want to talk about it? Does she call me on my b-day, my anniversary, check up on me to say "just thinking of you and how I love you", ask me to lunch, ask me how I'm feeling about my father's drinking? Does she acknowledge how I feel?
Just some things to think about - I'm not your children and I have lived a different life. Some of what I've said might be something to consider, and other might not. Take what you like and leave the rest. Kudos to you if you can jump the BIGGEST hurdle of all - or the FIRST one? That is denial. Your denial might hurt your children. I don't know for sure, but my mother's denial is certainly hurting me, so it could definitely effect how your children feel.
Definitely let them know they're loved and show it.
There's my rant and two cents. Like I said, Kudos for thinking about all of this seriously!
I wish you the best and Good luck.
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Yep I go to IC almost weekly as well as a men's group. I've grown up so much this last year. It's a shame really my wife doesn't see it through her fog of alcohol.
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Originally Posted by Stung
You don't need her to validate your growth and efforts. Good for you for taking the initiative in bettering yourself. I do hope you learn more about adult children of alcoholics though. What your kids are being exposed to now has the possibility of sticking with them for a long time.
And thank you I'll read up on children of alcoholics.
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As if it wasn't bad enough already, I found her hidden stash of booze finally after a month of searching. She's drinking before I come home and hiding it. We have a couples counseling session scheduled this Saturday, I guess I'll need to confront her with this
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
As if it wasn't bad enough already, I found her hidden stash of booze finally after a month of searching. She's drinking before I come home and hiding it. We have a couples counseling session scheduled this Saturday, I guess I'll need to confront her with this
Lots of us have planned a big "gotcha" moment, only to have it blow up in our faces. Just be ready for it not to go well. Lies, denial, empty promises, blame-shifting- these are just some of the weapons in the alcoholic's arsenal.
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Ditto that. My husband just got better at hiding it.
If your counselor has serious experience with addictions, it could be a good time to push for inpatient rehab. If you don't have a recovery plan laid out that you're going to require her to carry through with, I don't see the point of bringing it up. Sorry. Been there, done that, many times. I kept thinking "if only he'd go to AA" and asked, pleaded, tried to reason with him to getting some kind of help. Reality was, he needed inpatient rehab and along with a wide support system for follow up afterwards.
Call a rehab and start finding out what's involved. Licensed Addiction Counselors are who I should have been talking with a long time ago. Some rehabs offer intervention help.
If your counselor has serious experience with addictions, it could be a good time to push for inpatient rehab. If you don't have a recovery plan laid out that you're going to require her to carry through with, I don't see the point of bringing it up. Sorry. Been there, done that, many times. I kept thinking "if only he'd go to AA" and asked, pleaded, tried to reason with him to getting some kind of help. Reality was, he needed inpatient rehab and along with a wide support system for follow up afterwards.
Call a rehab and start finding out what's involved. Licensed Addiction Counselors are who I should have been talking with a long time ago. Some rehabs offer intervention help.
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Originally Posted by ladyscribbler
What result are you hoping to get from a confrontation? Best keep your expectations low here.
Lots of us have planned a big "gotcha" moment, only to have it blow up in our faces. Just be ready for it not to go well. Lies, denial, empty promises, blame-shifting- these are just some of the weapons in the alcoholic's arsenal.
Lots of us have planned a big "gotcha" moment, only to have it blow up in our faces. Just be ready for it not to go well. Lies, denial, empty promises, blame-shifting- these are just some of the weapons in the alcoholic's arsenal.
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Something to keep in firmly in mind - alcoholism is a chronic, progressive disease that effects the brain and body. It is cunning and baffling. It requires turning it over to people who have experience with this, to break it's hold (if at all possible) and give the alcoholic tools and education about the disease.
This isn't about wanting to drink or wanting to go to rehab, or even what you want. It's about what she needs in order to start her recovery. Is it outpatient rehab combined with AA? Is it a 2 week rehab, 4 weeks or 2 months? That may sound extreme, but a lot of good people have this terrible disease and it amazed me how many were smart enough to get to rehab in the earlier stages. From advice here, we found one that has a good family program. Looking back on that, it was critical for me to have.
What you're dealing with right now is as good as it gets. The earlier recovery starts, the less baggage and self-destruction for her, you and your kids. This actually is the good part.
If she refuses help, you need to have in line what the consequences will be. Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean.
Also, if you don't mean it, don't say it.
As my husband learned from his rehab counselor and has also said himself, if an alcoholic is talking, they're lying. They will tell you everything you want to hear. They will tell you anything necessary to protect the addiction. To them, it feels like they absolutely need it and cannot live without it. Reasoning doesn't work. The alcoholic brain is unable to be reasoned with while the addiction is active. To stop drinking is always temporary and not the same as being in recovery.
This isn't about wanting to drink or wanting to go to rehab, or even what you want. It's about what she needs in order to start her recovery. Is it outpatient rehab combined with AA? Is it a 2 week rehab, 4 weeks or 2 months? That may sound extreme, but a lot of good people have this terrible disease and it amazed me how many were smart enough to get to rehab in the earlier stages. From advice here, we found one that has a good family program. Looking back on that, it was critical for me to have.
What you're dealing with right now is as good as it gets. The earlier recovery starts, the less baggage and self-destruction for her, you and your kids. This actually is the good part.
If she refuses help, you need to have in line what the consequences will be. Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean.
Also, if you don't mean it, don't say it.
As my husband learned from his rehab counselor and has also said himself, if an alcoholic is talking, they're lying. They will tell you everything you want to hear. They will tell you anything necessary to protect the addiction. To them, it feels like they absolutely need it and cannot live without it. Reasoning doesn't work. The alcoholic brain is unable to be reasoned with while the addiction is active. To stop drinking is always temporary and not the same as being in recovery.
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With a 9 month old and 2 yr old, one other thing comes to mind. I take it this is fairly recent in the past months or years? There could be hormonal or other physical issues involved. My husband and I have been seeing naturopathic doctors who've really helped us with our physical health. That doesn't negate the other help needed for the alcoholism, but can help immensely tied in with it.
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Originally Posted by keepingthefaith
With a 9 month old and 2 yr old, one other thing comes to mind. I take it this is fairly recent in the past months or years? There could be hormonal or other physical issues involved. My husband and I have been seeing naturopathic doctors who've really helped us with our physical health. That doesn't negate the other help needed for the alcoholism, but can help immensely tied in with it.
And yes, I'm pretty sure I'm still way hormonal so take anything I say with a boulder of salt.
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Originally Posted by Stung
Lol! I have a 2 year old and 9 month old. He has a 5 year old and 18 month old. And yes, I'm pretty sure I'm still way hormonal so take anything I say with a boulder of salt.
And yes, I'm pretty sure I'm still way hormonal so take anything I say with a boulder of salt.
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Originally Posted by ladyscribbler
What result are you hoping to get from a confrontation? Best keep your expectations low here. Lots of us have planned a big "gotcha" moment, only to have it blow up in our faces. Just be ready for it not to go well. Lies, denial, empty promises, blame-shifting- these are just some of the weapons in the alcoholic's arsenal.
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Im hoping she will go to detox and then AA etc. if not for me then for our kids. I know that's a pile dream but one can at least dream right.
Well, except I guess the physical presence. But I suppose that is just a technical matter.
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Im hoping she will go to detox and then AA etc. if not for me then for our kids. I know that's a pile dream but one can at least dream right.
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Originally Posted by CodeJob
She needs to go for herself.
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Setting boundaries for yourself is the way it has to be. May I suggest that when you approach her you should leave out "go for me and the kids". Codejob is right she needs to make the decision to go for herself. Simply stated "I will no longer live with your alcoholism", "I will no longer be around you when you drink", "I will not let our children be around you when you drink". "I" needs to be the focus of this discussion. This way there are repercussions for her for her drinking. You aren't telling her she can't drink, and you aren't making it about the kids or yourself. The alcoholic needs a moment of clarity to realize accountability and what will happen to THEM if they don't do something about it.
Once you state this boundary stick to it. Setting a boundary and then not enforcing it is the absolute worst thing you could do. So if you are going to say this on Saturday be sure you are ready to act on it lest you end up in a worse situation than you are already in.
Once you state this boundary stick to it. Setting a boundary and then not enforcing it is the absolute worst thing you could do. So if you are going to say this on Saturday be sure you are ready to act on it lest you end up in a worse situation than you are already in.
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Originally Posted by redatlanta
Setting boundaries for yourself is the way it has to be. May I suggest that when you approach her you should leave out "go for me and the kids". Codejob is right she needs to make the decision to go for herself. Simply stated "I will no longer live with your alcoholism", "I will no longer be around you when you drink", "I will not let our children be around you when you drink". "I" needs to be the focus of this discussion. This way there are repercussions for her for her drinking. You aren't telling her she can't drink, and you aren't making it about the kids or yourself. The alcoholic needs a moment of clarity to realize accountability and what will happen to THEM if they don't do something about it. Once you state this boundary stick to it. Setting a boundary and then not enforcing it is the absolute worst thing you could do. So if you are going to say this on Saturday be sure you are ready to act on it lest you end up in a worse situation than you are already in.
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How about reading something like this to her in counseling? It is my goal to let her know I've had enough and that I'm nearing an ultimatum. If this does not work then I'll be prepared to give her the stop drinking or here are the divorce papers in a few months. This statement below is like a warning shot across the bow.
I cannot continue long term with your drinking. In my opinion it is destroying our marriage. You need to stop and do whatever will help you stop be that. Rehab, AA, and/or more Individual counseling whatever it takes. If you decide to stop, I will do everything in my power to support you in that decision. I'll take as much time off work as needed, drive you to AA while I go to Alanon, take care of the kids etc as long as you work towards getting and staying sober.
If you decide to continue drinking, I don't see that this can continue to be a marriage for very long.
I cannot continue long term with your drinking. In my opinion it is destroying our marriage. You need to stop and do whatever will help you stop be that. Rehab, AA, and/or more Individual counseling whatever it takes. If you decide to stop, I will do everything in my power to support you in that decision. I'll take as much time off work as needed, drive you to AA while I go to Alanon, take care of the kids etc as long as you work towards getting and staying sober.
If you decide to continue drinking, I don't see that this can continue to be a marriage for very long.
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I think that about sums it up. Now it is just a matter of you sticking to what you said.
As far as confrontation, I found w/my XAH when I would find a hidden stash I would put it on the table and not say a word. That said a lot more than anything I could have. No words necessary. He knew that I knew. He knew the consequences, that I had formed boundaries and planned to stick to them. I did not even have to say it.
I guess what I am saying is that I wasted a lot of time and effort harping about what he needs to do. When my focus changed to what could I do for myself and my kids, I changed too. That is when I stopped with the confrontations. It helped me not to waste my energy calling him out, yet for my own sanity still feeling like I did something.
Good luck to you. I hope she sees the light.
I always say, plan for the worst, hope for the best.
As far as confrontation, I found w/my XAH when I would find a hidden stash I would put it on the table and not say a word. That said a lot more than anything I could have. No words necessary. He knew that I knew. He knew the consequences, that I had formed boundaries and planned to stick to them. I did not even have to say it.
I guess what I am saying is that I wasted a lot of time and effort harping about what he needs to do. When my focus changed to what could I do for myself and my kids, I changed too. That is when I stopped with the confrontations. It helped me not to waste my energy calling him out, yet for my own sanity still feeling like I did something.
Good luck to you. I hope she sees the light.
I always say, plan for the worst, hope for the best.
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