would like to ask the RAs some questions
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 232
Carmen, take it as a blessing that you found out before kids and/or marriage with him.
Read any of my posts, and those of others who are locked into this type of hell.
Find the love of God and yourself and leave this relationship.
It never gets better after you say 'I do', when they don't make that type of commitment to sobriety.
I'm sorry of its blunt, but consider the year you had with him as an advanced education of what you won't settle for.
God bless you!
Read any of my posts, and those of others who are locked into this type of hell.
Find the love of God and yourself and leave this relationship.
It never gets better after you say 'I do', when they don't make that type of commitment to sobriety.
I'm sorry of its blunt, but consider the year you had with him as an advanced education of what you won't settle for.
God bless you!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
I think you're looking desperately here for hope and reassurance about HIM. What we're all trying to tell you is that you cannot change him and he's not trying to change.
So what does that leave you with? YOU!
Why do you want to stay in this relationship? (Hint: it has NOTHING to do with him.)
So what does that leave you with? YOU!
Why do you want to stay in this relationship? (Hint: it has NOTHING to do with him.)
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
carmen---to answer your question to me.....actually, I hope that some recovering alcoholics come along--because they can answer better than me. My personal experience is with adult children---and, I have worked with alcoholics in my professional life.
Those in authentic recovery for a long period of time are the best people to talk to (my opinion).
What I do know, for sure, is that the first year of recovery is rough on everyone involve--esp. the early months. Worse than the origional drinking for a lot of people.
You might want to do a google search on PAWS to read about some of these symptoms.
Authentic recovery is more than just not drinking. It involves working a program with a sponsor and working the twelve steps. It is time consuming and must be the central focus of the alcoholic's life---especially in the first couple of years. It requires a willigness to change and requires rigorous honesty. The thinking and attitudes that permeated the alcoholic's life have to be changed in order to become changed behavior.
This can only happen when the alcoholic wants these changes as the first priority in their life. A spiritual change happens within the individual (not talking about religion)---the changes happen from the inside.
Even if all of this happens for the alcoholic---the spouse has to make significant changes of their own--because, invariably, they have made destructive changes of their own as they slowly, but surely, accomodated themselves to the alcoholics drinking. Otherwise, the relationship is pretty well doomed.
You see, it is not just a matter of "He quits drinking alcohol---and everything becomes o.k.". It just doesn't happen that way. You can see this over and over by reading the threads, here, on SR.
I hope this helps you some.....
Carmen--keep reading and keep learning...and, keep asking yourself the hard questions......
dandylion
Those in authentic recovery for a long period of time are the best people to talk to (my opinion).
What I do know, for sure, is that the first year of recovery is rough on everyone involve--esp. the early months. Worse than the origional drinking for a lot of people.
You might want to do a google search on PAWS to read about some of these symptoms.
Authentic recovery is more than just not drinking. It involves working a program with a sponsor and working the twelve steps. It is time consuming and must be the central focus of the alcoholic's life---especially in the first couple of years. It requires a willigness to change and requires rigorous honesty. The thinking and attitudes that permeated the alcoholic's life have to be changed in order to become changed behavior.
This can only happen when the alcoholic wants these changes as the first priority in their life. A spiritual change happens within the individual (not talking about religion)---the changes happen from the inside.
Even if all of this happens for the alcoholic---the spouse has to make significant changes of their own--because, invariably, they have made destructive changes of their own as they slowly, but surely, accomodated themselves to the alcoholics drinking. Otherwise, the relationship is pretty well doomed.
You see, it is not just a matter of "He quits drinking alcohol---and everything becomes o.k.". It just doesn't happen that way. You can see this over and over by reading the threads, here, on SR.
I hope this helps you some.....
Carmen--keep reading and keep learning...and, keep asking yourself the hard questions......
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,443
I don't know...there is a lot of talk here about "recovery" vs. sobriety. Again, having been in AA and having "worked the steps" and then having NOT been in AA and getting sober without a "program", I have to disagree with the continuance of this consistently perpetuated notion of "recovery". AA will have you believe that EVERYTHING needs to change....that it is all an "inside job"...."stinkin' thinkin' ", etc. etc. That people who are not "in the program" are not "in recovery", or are " just" dry drunks. (Why the need for labels for everything?) Yes, I guess I believed that too, since I was in AA for years....but the truth is that many people maintain sobriety without a "program". One's thinking necessarily changes because the mind is no longer influenced by alcohol....clearer thoughts can be had and decisions made. Those who suggest that people say what they "really" mean when they have had a few or when they are drunk, couldn't be further from the truth....at least in my case. I know that my husband reminded me a few times of what I had said or had done when "under the influence". I, personally, did not mean any of it....but, until I got sober, it was hard to "convince" him. (AA would call this "living amends") Did I say/do horrible things? You bet. Did I mean any of it? Not at all....but it is hard to live down. (AA=incomprehensible demoralization) As for the jekyl/hyde syndrome, not much to say about this...."sh*t happens". For me, I find that I don't suffer from this when I am sober....I remember what I say/do, and the impact of my words/actions on others. Does this mean I am "in recovery"? Not in the AA sense of the words....I would be a dry drunk these days....that's fine with me....I am sober. The majority of people who are "in recovery"....relapse....I think the statistics for AA are like 5% success rate (in terms of those who remain "in recovery" without relapse)...so, again..."sh*t happens". Sobriety is not for the faint of heart. It is, for me, a lifelong struggle....but one that I am winning..."authentic" recovery??? hmmm...Has my husband changed? I don't think so...he is the same guy I married over 15 years ago...drinking is not his issue....it is mine. Again, he didn't need a "program"...he is normal...with normal expectations, boundaries, etc....but, that's just him. And...he still loves me
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by trudgingagain 
I don't know...there is a lot of talk here about "recovery" vs. sobriety. Again, having been in AA and having "worked the steps" and then having NOT been in AA and getting sober without a "program", I have to disagree with the continuance of this consistently perpetuated notion of "recovery". AA will have you believe that EVERYTHING needs to change....that it is all an "inside job"...."stinkin' thinkin' ", etc. etc. That people who are not "in the program" are not "in recovery", or are " just" dry drunks. (Why the need for labels for everything?) Yes, I guess I believed that too, since I was in AA for years....but the truth is that many people maintain sobriety without a "program". One's thinking necessarily changes because the mind is no longer influenced by alcohol....clearer thoughts can be had and decisions made. Those who suggest that people say what they "really" mean when they have had a few or when they are drunk, couldn't be further from the truth....at least in my case. I know that my husband reminded me a few times of what I had said or had done when "under the influence". I, personally, did not mean any of it....but, until I got sober, it was hard to "convince" him. (AA would call this "living amends") Did I say/do horrible things? You bet. Did I mean any of it? Not at all....but it is hard to live down. (AA=incomprehensible demoralization) As for the jekyl/hyde syndrome, not much to say about this...."sh*t happens". For me, I find that I don't suffer from this when I am sober....I remember what I say/do, and the impact of my words/actions on others. Does this mean I am "in recovery"? Not in the AA sense of the words....I would be a dry drunk these days....that's fine with me....I am sober. The majority of people who are "in recovery"....relapse....I think the statistics for AA are like 5% success rate (in terms of those who remain "in recovery" without relapse)...so, again..."sh*t happens". Sobriety is not for the faint of heart. It is, for me, a lifelong struggle....but one that I am winning..."authentic" recovery??? hmmm...Has my husband changed? I don't think so...he is the same guy I married over 15 years ago...drinking is not his issue....it is mine. Again, he didn't need a "program"...he is normal...with normal expectations, boundaries, etc....but, that's just him. And...he still loves me
If folks are not talking about you, then they really are not talking about you.
Do you follow where all that "short hand" comes from? That is all terms like "Dry Drunk" are . . . just short hand, so folks do not have to post 700 word documents, like this, to detail the condition which many of us are so familiar with >>>
What Is A Dry Drunk? | Addiction Recovery Basics
It is a very real condition, that many of "friends and family," have to deal with. Not because we want to, but because that is what there is. It just is.
I am glad for you that it does not fit you or your family. Really, really glad.
I guess also understand that there is a fair amount of various Personality Disorder type Mental Illness among Long Term Chronic A-Land? That is also a major portion of the problem that goes unstated or understated.
Glad that does not apply to your situation, as well.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,431
Hi trudging;
That's an interesting point and makes me think about the semantics of the word "recovery".
I have never been involved in AA in any capacity, nor worked the steps, nor read the big book.
I wasn't intending an AA dictated / delimited definition of the word but I realize now that everyone would assume that based on their "appropriation" of the term in their literature etc. and that this is a 12 step forum
What I was trying to get at by "recovery" was the more dictionary-level usage.
The idea that stopping drinking is just one finite point on a continum of building a life without alcohol,
and that "getting better" is an on-going process which requires self-reflection, change of habits and behaviors,
dealing with childhood issues, etc.
and isn't just the physical process of stopping.
For me, this has been a personal process and not through any formal program, although
what I have done does involve some processes which other formal programs use.
You know, maybe we could start a thread about this--don't want to hijack this one, but
I think the idea of what does "getting better / recovery" really look like is very relevant to F & Family as well as to ex-drinkers.
Thanks for the mind-candy!
That's an interesting point and makes me think about the semantics of the word "recovery".
I have never been involved in AA in any capacity, nor worked the steps, nor read the big book.
I wasn't intending an AA dictated / delimited definition of the word but I realize now that everyone would assume that based on their "appropriation" of the term in their literature etc. and that this is a 12 step forum
What I was trying to get at by "recovery" was the more dictionary-level usage.
The idea that stopping drinking is just one finite point on a continum of building a life without alcohol,
and that "getting better" is an on-going process which requires self-reflection, change of habits and behaviors,
dealing with childhood issues, etc.
and isn't just the physical process of stopping.
For me, this has been a personal process and not through any formal program, although
what I have done does involve some processes which other formal programs use.
You know, maybe we could start a thread about this--don't want to hijack this one, but
I think the idea of what does "getting better / recovery" really look like is very relevant to F & Family as well as to ex-drinkers.
Thanks for the mind-candy!
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
trudging again----the question WAS for recovering alcoholics. I am not--but I stuck my opinion in, anyway.......(my bad)......
I am not of the understanding that this forum is strictly 12-step.........I'm under the impression that people, here, come from many different points of view...
I quess someone will correct m e if I am wrong.......
dandylion
I am not of the understanding that this forum is strictly 12-step.........I'm under the impression that people, here, come from many different points of view...
I quess someone will correct m e if I am wrong.......
dandylion
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
There is a secular connections forum under friends and family.
If you like I'll start a thread over there.
This is not a 12 forum by the way, there is a specific 12 forum under friends and family as well if you want to limit the discussion to 12 step only.
Your friend,
If you like I'll start a thread over there.
This is not a 12 forum by the way, there is a specific 12 forum under friends and family as well if you want to limit the discussion to 12 step only.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
That's an interesting point and makes me think about the semantics of the word "recovery".
For me, this has been a personal process and not through any formal program, although
what I have done does involve some processes which other formal programs use.
For me, this has been a personal process and not through any formal program, although
what I have done does involve some processes which other formal programs use.
One's thinking necessarily changes because the mind is no longer influenced by alcohol....clearer thoughts can be had and decisions made.
Recovery means REAL CHANGE, not just existing in a suspended state like "just not drinking" without ever acknowledging the reality of the addiction, the resulting damage it may have caused, etc.
In my experience it includes many different, very secular, non-program type of stuff but I appreciate a LOT of what I hear our Al-Anon going members share or what my more religious colleagues share. I pick & choose the pieces that make sense for me. Truth is there is a HUGE crossover of all the core components that make each of those approaches appealing to different types of people, it's just the dogma & sometimes the stigma that separates them or makes one more appealing than another, IMO.
And no, we're not a 12-step forum.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Around and About
Posts: 1,254
Originally Posted by carmen220
I've been with my ABF for over a year. I've been learning a lot from reading everyone's post and from advice from others, but I would like to understand more about how the As feel about us (the non-As that are trying to understand, be patient and are worried).
For those As, who had their significant others stand by them through recovery(or maybe even encouraged their As toward recovery), how did you feel about them after you recovered? Did your feelings change? Did your personalities change? Did you wake up out of a fog and wonder what you were doing with that person?
It's so confusing to us, because we don't know what to think.
I've never known which is his sober self or his buzzed self. Like jekell and hyde; he has both sides. Sometimes I wonder if his sober self is the agitated one and drinking makes him kind again; or did the drink make him develop the agitated/hyde self?
I met him in the work environment and later learned that he had this problem, while dating him. I didn't know he had a problem when I fell for him; I've never been a drinker, but I think it's always running through his system, so this is why I don't know which is the real him.
While I worry about his health, I worry about what is real in our relationship. We've had wonderful connection/friendship/humor together. He says how much he loves me, but can I trust what he says? Is he living in a fog or does he mean what he says to me. He's been saying it for over a year and he acts very sober (due to high tolerance). Is he just messing with my mind? Does he even know what he feels?
I've attempted to pull away, as I've became aware of how bad the problem is, but I'm already in pretty deep and I care and dream of him recovering.
I was just hoping for some perspective from some recovering As out there. Plus, I wondered if there are any happy endings in these situations. thanks.
For those As, who had their significant others stand by them through recovery(or maybe even encouraged their As toward recovery), how did you feel about them after you recovered? Did your feelings change? Did your personalities change? Did you wake up out of a fog and wonder what you were doing with that person?
It's so confusing to us, because we don't know what to think.
I've never known which is his sober self or his buzzed self. Like jekell and hyde; he has both sides. Sometimes I wonder if his sober self is the agitated one and drinking makes him kind again; or did the drink make him develop the agitated/hyde self?
I met him in the work environment and later learned that he had this problem, while dating him. I didn't know he had a problem when I fell for him; I've never been a drinker, but I think it's always running through his system, so this is why I don't know which is the real him.
While I worry about his health, I worry about what is real in our relationship. We've had wonderful connection/friendship/humor together. He says how much he loves me, but can I trust what he says? Is he living in a fog or does he mean what he says to me. He's been saying it for over a year and he acts very sober (due to high tolerance). Is he just messing with my mind? Does he even know what he feels?
I've attempted to pull away, as I've became aware of how bad the problem is, but I'm already in pretty deep and I care and dream of him recovering.
I was just hoping for some perspective from some recovering As out there. Plus, I wondered if there are any happy endings in these situations. thanks.
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