HikerLady

Again, think of watching a woman being slapped in the face, then hugged, slapped in the face then hugged, slapped in the face then hugged.....What are YOU going to do to get that woman out of that viscious cycle? The reality is that the person doing it doesn't even know he's doing it when he's doing it, it's just who he is....he deflects and slaps, then feels bad and hugs, then he deflects and slaps then feels bad and hugs. He is the only one that can stop himself, nothing you say or do will make him stop. Your mission is to help that woman. What would you say and do for that woman to help her Carmen? Hugs to you, you are much stronger than you or him give you credit for.

Sungrl

Sheesh Carmen, you DO NOT deserve to be treated that way. He is manipulative controlling and from the sound of things down right mean!

Tell him you don't feel you deserve to be treated that way, you feel you will never reach common ground on the drinking thing, block his number and eventually find someone who is a true partner.

lillamy

Well no wonder you do!!! What you're describing is (as FireSprite said) a classic manipulation technique to get people to become so confused that they don't know what's up and down.

This man is mean and abusive to you. And the Jekyll & Hyde thing is a package deal.

I wound venture to suggest that a year is not a long time in a relationship. And that no matter how old you are, whether or not "there is someone out there for you," it is better to be alone than to wish you were.

m1k3

Carmen, I totally understand the problem, been there, done that.

I always felt I had a hole in me, a missing piece and I was searching for someone to fill that hole. Well after a lot of recovery and getting away from my AW and all the drama and craziness I started to fill that hole with me. I didn't need someone else to complete me, I was enough just as I was.

After even longer in recovery I figured out there never was any hole to begin with. It was simply a lack of belief in myself.

Your friend,

KateL

I was the drinker and my first husband left me. I met the second on the rebound and when I finally became sober, I realized I didn't love him. However he beat me and the first husband had many affairs, so I was better off without the pair of them. In your case, I am sure he loves you and it is up to you to decide if you want to stay with him. There have been success stories where the supportive partner has helped the alcoholic and they live happily ever after. But he has to stop drinking and you must really look after yourself foremost because you are worthy of happiness. Good luck xxxxxx

ladyscribbler

I feel so torn, upset, confused, manipulated, helpless, exhausted.

That is the purpose of all of his manipulative behavior. To keep you off balance so that he can keep doing what he wants, when he wants.
Right now what he wants to do is continue drinking. Nothing you say or do is going to change that.
You do have a problem. I think I recommended that you go to Alanon before. I will reiterate that here. In our own way, we are just as sick the the alcoholics in our lives. They are our drug. The fact that you need so badly to fix this man, to change him, to make this relationship work at all costs, even though it is unhealthy and makes you so unhappy is a pretty good indicator that you are not in a place in your life where being in a relationship is a good idea.
I am in the same place. I have been out of my 5 year relationship with an alcoholic now for 7 months. I have spent this time going to alanon and therapy and learning to take care of myself. If I have another relationship in the future, it will be because I am happy with myself and my life and want to share that happiness with a healthy person who is capable of a loving relationship. Not because I'm desperate to hitch my busted wagon to someone else's just so I don't have to travel alone.
I second DB's suggestion to look at your old thread, really read the responses. You are on a bad path with this man. Thankfully you have an opportunity to take the fork in the road and get on with your life.

shil2587

When I read your first post, I was going to reply saying that my story was almost exactly like yours,except that in the end he left to focus on himself and to protect me from his frequent relapses. I know he loved me and that he probably still does, but even so, we cannot be together.

THEN I read your later posts.

This does not sound like a man who knows what love is. Love is action. A verb. Whether or not he feels all gooey for you from time to time, whether or not he wants that feeling to continue into the future, he does not know what love is. If he knew what love was, he would not put you through the manipulation and abuse. He would not disregard your feelings. No matter what he feels for you, he does not know what love is or how to do it. Drinking or not drinking does not alter that. Part of recovery might well involve learning how to love himself and then others, but you about guarantee that.

So, the question is, do you want to be with a man who has nice feelings towards you, but does not know how to be in love? That is the only question it is possible for you to answer with certainty and it is the most important one to ask.

theuncertainty

Hi, Carmen. Good god, I remember this feeling so strongly:

It brought me right back to my relationship with AXH. I don't know if your relationship will evolve like mine did, but parts of it sound eerily familiar to, not the beginning, but maybe a bit further along, of the relationship with him. I struggled for years trying to figure out how to communicate with him. Because if. I. just. tried. harder. more. tried to be clearer., he would FINALLY understand. I would finally get him to understand that what he kept saying hurt my feelings. He would finally stop pulling the same stuff over and over and would try to treat me differently, they way he did when we first started dating, the way he did on the good days.

It was exhausting. Going through what would turn out to be the same motions again and again. Trying to approach it differently and still getting the same words thrown back at me: it was all my fault, if I hadn't done x he wouldn't do Y; I misunderstood him; I was too sensitive.

I tried to change. Again and again. I would try to be what he seemed to want. He never made any concessions. He never seemed to change his overall pattern of 'dealing' with me.

Some where along the line I found the following and it helped me navigate some of the stuff.

Issendai's Superhero Training Journal - Sick systems: How to keep someone with you forever

A year in is still the beginning of a relationship. I don't think it should be so exhausting.

AnvilheadII

Yet, he never changes.

Of course, all ends with "I love you".

quit giving those three stupid little words so much POWER. using the L word doesn't mean doodly squat. especially when it's used as a HOOK, as an ALL CLEAR, as a COVER. think what it must look like from his side for moment....

ok, so i treat her like crap, dictate, lie, tell her flat out i have no intentions of NOT drinking, she gets REALLY upset - but all i have to do is whip out the L card and she turns to mush. man this is almost too easy.

if you want love, you are looking in the wrong place with this champ. go learn to love yourself first. fill the empty needy spaces inside you that make you such an easy target for manipulation. if something causes us to feel so torn, upset, confused, manipulated, helpless, exhausted then good ole common SENSE tells us to STOP IT. if it hurts when we hit ourselves in the head with a hammer, common sense tells us to STOP hitting ourselves in the head!!!!!!

carmen220

Thanks everyone. Thing is, it's not as easy as simply saying that he's mean. It's the back and forth that is so hard; 2 extremes. It's confusing. Sometimes, I tell myself that maybe I misunderstood or didn't get the humor. What makes it so hard are the good things; like I said, he's thoughtful, supportive, funny, a best friend, many great things. Sometimes this last for awhile and I start to forget the bad stuff. I'd sort of sum up the bad stuff as a type of agitation; he gets agitated very easily. He's not the physical abusive type; but I might be experiencing emotional abuse, when his agitation flares up.

I guess I want so badly to believe the good, that I try to erase the bad. I do tell him how I feel. I get mad at him. I tell him not to talk to me like that, etc... I'm not silent about it. I'm just having a hard time walking away at this point.

One thing I know for a fact: He IS an Alcoholic and I tend to blame it all on that.

I've never been one to date just ANYONE. ever. I was very interested in him (before I knew all this) and I guess I just REALLY was ready to find the one.

I was ready. Before him, I was very ready for a healthy relationship. I grew up with very healthy role models. I didn't expect this type of situation to enter my life. It was gradual.

DoubleBarrel

You are very simply clinging to a hope that things COULD be different based on ZERO evidence that they are heading in that direction.

HE HAS NOT GIVEN YOU ONE SINGLE INDICATION THAT CHANGE IS COMING IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

You are just HOPING. I know how desperately you DONT want this to be reality.

But the sooner you face it, the better off you'll be.

Im sorry, really, but so many people here have been telling you the EXACT SAME THING in their own way.

If you are truly healthy, as you say, the right one is out there, and it ISNT him.

trudgingagain

This sounds a lot like me...with a few differences. I became the drinker in my first marriage....he drank/drugged too, though, and I left him due to verbal/physical abuse. Second hubby was also a drinker...but I thought he was a "normie"...I was the drunk. Divorced him, once I got sober, realizing that I was the one putting everything into the marriage (money, work, caretaking, etc.) Met my 3rd husband sober and I stayed sober for quite a few years after we married. We have now been married over 15 years and I have had 2 relapses....a couple years each. He never saw me drunk before the first one....and didn't know how to deal with me....not to say that he does now.... BUT...as an alcoholic...I can say it was ME who KNEW that I had a problem and had to get sober, for ME. He did give me an ultimatum during one of my relapses....it was either sobriety for me or he would divorce me. I may be a drunk, but I am no dummy. I got sober (again) and stayed that way for quite a few years. I did/said things when I was drunk that I would NEVER do/say sober. He knew that...that is why he stayed. He knew me sober first...and we had a foundation upon which to build. Jekyl and Hyde? You bet. HORRIBLE. BUT, he stayed...and I got sober (again). I doubt that he would have married me had he met me while I was drinking. Through the years we have built a solid relationship...that alcohol could have easily ruined. I have been in AA and not in AA. He has never been in any al-anon-type of program or in any recovery. He is normal. He is not co-dependent....and does not enable anyone. I do take issue with many who say that both the alcoholic and the partner need to "be in recovery". Recovery or not drinking look different for everybody...as do relationships. I guess my question would be, "Do you want to change him?" (Alcoholic or not, we can only change ourselves when we are ready. All the best....

Pamel

trudgingagain, you saved me a lot of writing with your very well-written post.

Since my last relapse, I have to say that my relationship with my longterm and long-suffering boyfriend (he is 74 and I am 68) has been anything but easy. I have been very determined to stay sober though, and do the work. Also I cut him a LOT of slack because of his "pain and suffering" and because he stuck by me. I would be remiss, though, if I didn't add that my last episode of drinking was a coward's attempt at living within a very unsatisfactory relationship. Oh, he is a good man, alright, but we couldn't be more different, and I have felt for years that I gave up all the good stuff that was me to be with this conservative and sometimes boring man.

HOWEVER, things are getting better. I was taking little or no responsibility to work within the relationship to make it acceptable. He will never be the "man of my dreams" and I will never live up to deceased wife #2, the "love of his life", but I see a glimmer of hope that our relationship may have unexpected positive benefits for both of us.

One day at a time.

carmen220

Thanks trudging, You said that you "said/did things drunk" that you'd never do sober; that you were "jekyl and hyde"; so, to answer your question, Do I want to change him? Only regarding these things that you just mentioned that I assume are due to his drinking. I think that the good things that I love about him, might be the real him, but how will I ever know?

dandylion

carmen--the same man that does the "good things" is the very same man that does the bad things. They are both fueled by alcoholism. The brain (and alcoholic thinking) is still messed up even when they are sober!!!! Sober is not the same as recovering---the thoughts and attitudes and distortion of reality are still present. It is a confusing mistake to think of him as two separate people.

Think of the man who is very good to his dog during the week but, gets l oaded every saturday night and kicks the dog around on sunday. Would you let this man addopt your puppy? No.....because you know that man is not capable of respecting and loving the puppy properly.

dandylion

carmen220

Thanks for that explanation, danylion. So, if the alcoholic thinking is still present when sober, does that mean it becomes balanced and normalized when in recovery?

SparkleKitty

No one can say what will happen when an addict undertakes recovery, but your A is not anywhere near that so it is even more pointless to future-trip about it. He won't be ready until HE decides to pursue it, no matter how you feel about it or what you think is best for him. You can't change him. You can only change you.

jaynie04

This is how I felt about alcohol before I got sober. And I think you will find a lot of that sentiment ongoing here on the newcomer threads. This thought process is exactly how we struggle with getting sober. Amidst all the evidence that alcohol is harming us we sift through and find the times when alcohol didn't get us into trouble. Or we reminisce about the early days when alcohol delivered on what it promised, we hold onto those memories and the fantasy that maybe someday it can be like that again. The only way any of us keep drinking after a certain point is to look at our reality with one eye shut, and then we get used to that process.

As uncomfortable as it is, recovery meant looking at the whole picture, the full reality. The only time I have felt like I was close to a drink is when I have started to look at half the picture again, that hazy romanticizing of half truths. The minute I snap back to what really IS, drinking again makes no sense at all.

DoubleBarrel

Everything he is doing is the real him.

Everything else is YOUR FANTASY.

Hawkeye13

Not necessarily. Maybe not at all.

Depends on your commitment to the work of recovery and
not just on not drinking.

Your AB hasn't even decided to stop drinking, and may never do so.
He is showing and telling you who he really is. Believe him.

Please remember that he has just as much right to choose drinking
as you have the right to choose not being around it.

You cannot, and I hazard to say, will not be able to cajole or coerce
him into becoming sober because you want him too.

Even if he doesn't drink for awhile, that is not at all the same thing
as true recovery. That is an internal choice and a difficult decision
for most active alcoholics. Booze is how we (mostly) deal with life. Period.

I stopped drinking many times before I recovered.