carmen220

I've been with my ABF for over a year. I've been learning a lot from reading everyone's post and from advice from others, but I would like to understand more about how the As feel about us (the non-As that are trying to understand, be patient and are worried).

For those As, who had their significant others stand by them through recovery(or maybe even encouraged their As toward recovery), how did you feel about them after you recovered? Did your feelings change? Did your personalities change? Did you wake up out of a fog and wonder what you were doing with that person?

It's so confusing to us, because we don't know what to think.

I've never known which is his sober self or his buzzed self. Like jekell and hyde; he has both sides. Sometimes I wonder if his sober self is the agitated one and drinking makes him kind again; or did the drink make him develop the agitated/hyde self?

I met him in the work environment and later learned that he had this problem, while dating him. I didn't know he had a problem when I fell for him; I've never been a drinker, but I think it's always running through his system, so this is why I don't know which is the real him.

While I worry about his health, I worry about what is real in our relationship. We've had wonderful connection/friendship/humor together. He says how much he loves me, but can I trust what he says? Is he living in a fog or does he mean what he says to me. He's been saying it for over a year and he acts very sober (due to high tolerance). Is he just messing with my mind? Does he even know what he feels?

I've attempted to pull away, as I've became aware of how bad the problem is, but I'm already in pretty deep and I care and dream of him recovering.

I was just hoping for some perspective from some recovering As out there. Plus, I wondered if there are any happy endings in these situations. thanks.

Stung

I'm not an alcoholic, my husband is, however my understanding in regards to genuine recovery is that Jekyll and Hyde both eventually go away if one pursues and stays dedicated to a good program of sobriety and emotional and mental health improvement. Eventually a healthy, spiritually centered and grounded, selfaware individual will emerge. But that is the BEST case scenario and kind of rare.

Couples that last are couples where the alcoholic commits to a program of sobriety and self improvement AND their partner commits to a program for themselves as well.

Generally, if someone is attracted to an addict and wants to stay with someone who abuses them (see the sticky on abuse) there are some issues that they need to work out as well.

The dysfunction of a relationship with an addict generally is not one sided. Bottom line is that if you want to be in an emotionally healthy relationship (with this guy or in the future with someone else) you need to work on you. And that's all you can work on anyway. Sending you peace.

graceandbeauty0

For me personally I stayed with my abf for 6 years. We both did get into a program, he was in AA and I was in al anon, and well after him being sober for 8 months and I was suppose to finally move in with him and start our lives together again finally, he broke up with me. He said he needed to work on his recovery and apparently wasn't in love with me anymore even though everything he did and said for the last 8 months showed me he did so I'm pretty confused. I mean focus on yourself no matter what. You will love yourself and in the end that's the most important thing. Your bf will do what he wants and nothing you do or say is going to put him recovery. So take care of yourself.

DoubleBarrel

Re read this thread. Again.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ationship.html

1newcreation

That's exactly why I'm not datin nor seekin as much as would want to. He has to take care of himself 1st b4 he does anyone else
Verify that recovery program is being worked on first & foremost. Then some fruit backing it up

LadyinBC

I feel so bad for you because I know how much you want this to work. I do believe that there can be happy endings, however, getting to these endings takes a lot of work.

For me, it just wasn't a matter of quitting the booze and then everything would become rainbows and sunshine. It wasn't like that much to my disappointment. I discovered many things about myself that I didn't like when I started doing programs and going to counselling. I have basically had to rewire my thinking and the way I do things and how I do things.

In all honesty I was glad that I didn't have a partner at the time because it would have been just one more person I would have had to worry about and I don't think I could have done it. And I still am not ready for any kind of relationship. I can be extremely selfish and make everything about me.

When the going gets tough my first thought has always been "I need a drink". To try not to think that way, well it is a hard thing to do. I am trying though and it does get easier and easier each passing day. But this changing myself will be a life long process. I didn't become an alcoholic overnight so I certainly am not going to get better overnight. For me to face the reality that I will always be an alcoholic, it is scary. To think that you can never go back to what you know so well, it can seem like a very daunting journey.

The thought that it can be one moment of bad thinking on my part to be right back where I ended, scares me to death. I will never be cured of this.

There are also lots of positives being in recovery there is no doubt about it. The time I spend with my grandkids, not letting the little things bother me anymore, the feeling of peace and contentment I have, realizing that I did quit drinking for 19 months so far and I never thought I would make it this far. Lots more too.

I know a lot of the posts in reply to your threads have been negative and are not what you want to hear. These responses do from a good place and people just want you to see how bad it can get. They just want you to be realistic.

You don't have to rush into anything, one day at a time isn't only for the addict. It works for everyone.

Hawkeye13

Carmen, I stopped drinking and I have been married for nineteen years and am still with my husband.

I did not have nearly the problem when I first met him than I did at the end, and this is one reason we have gotten through this.

I had many years of building a connection more or less sober most of the time with someone who also was that way. It sounds like this man and you have never had that opportunity as his alcohol problem was already pretty developed since before you've been together.

I feel like my marriage has gotten through my quitting drinking first of all because we were rebuilding on a very solid foundation of mutual respect and love, which is how our relationship began before alcohol was a significant factor. It is also because I am firmly and absolutely committed to not drinking ever again and am working a personal program to ensure that.

Unfortunately, your AB sounds no where near ready to stop yet. And until they are really ready by hitting their bottom, an alcoholic will just worry about supporting their drinking at the expense of everyone around them. Many of us also have personality issues like how to express emotion without drinking, as well as manipulation and control. Being sober is hard and unrewarding at times. Learning how to be in life and assume responsability for what we say and do all the time is very hard at first, and for many people who drink, they really never work that out--they have the same unevolved actions but just aren't drinking. I'm dealing with some of this now through yet another round of therapy.

All of this, and like LadyinBC says, I still know that relapse is something that can happen for the rest of my life. Statistically, the figures are grim for many of us.

The way he is treating you now is most likely as good as it will be. Sorry to say that, but if he doesn't choose to quit with all his heart and really work on it, it will get worse and his treatment of you will likely erode if you don't "fall in line" and accept his mean words and let him drink whenever he wants. The more I hurt inside and was angry, the more I dumped that on my partner as I kept drinking. This seems to be a pattern for many drinkers.

I was the same person but very damaged. There are reasons for this, but ultimately I choose to drink and choose to behave in this way and it has been a long road to begin my recovery.

Take care of yourself here Carmen and trust your self-protective instincts. He won't be able to take care of you until he learns to take care of himself without alcohol. That may never happen, or it may be many years of pain and suffering for him, and everyone around him first. If you have serious doubts or questions about his treatment of you now, get off the crazy train right away and find a partner who will love and respect you as you deserve.

CodeJob

Carmen, Have you read other sections of SR? I periodically read a few posts in sections more designed for the As. Rarely post there though.

Another consideration is to go to a few open AA meetings.

Do you have any friends or family dealing with cancer? There is often a shift and assessment of their lifestyle that takes place. Dealing with your mortality people start to focus on "their bucket list" and start to live for today. Alcoholism forces the same 24 hour Just for Today lifestyle - for the A trying to handle their addiction and the partner trying to handle life with an A.

Steps 1-3 help with this thought shift.

If you are living for today, you do not focus on the happy ending.

abcowboy

Carmen, I'm an RA, and I couldn't have gotten this far without my wife! Of course at first, like most alcoholics, I blamed everyone else, including her, for my drinking! But she stood beside me through all those rough years, and now, she is one of the most important reasons for me to stay sober....

carmen220

Hi CodeJob, Do you mean these are the thoughts of an alcoholic IN recovery or of an ACTIVE alcoholic?

My ABF, currently an ACTIVE A, DOES have this "living for today" attitude. Even though he always says that he wants to marry me, he doesn't seem to be able to focus on healthy planning for the future. He always wants to change the subject and go back to the present. Aside from my obvious stated concern over his drinking, which he claims he's "working on" and I should just trust that he's "working on it and don't talk about it", he also is unable to talk about the details of a future, beyond just wanting to marry me. It's like he just wants everything to stay as it is. I can't even get him to talk about future dreams. It's all about focusing on the now, the beautiful day, the sunshine, making people laugh...which is great, but it should include healthy future thinking too and I don't know how to get that out of him.

I didn't realize that was a common trait with As.

m1k3

Nope, you don't. And neither did anyone else who has been in a relationship with an A. Something I learned here a long time ago was the 3 C's.

I didn't cause it.
I can't control it.
I can't cure it.

And yes there are happy endings. I separated from my AW 3 years ago and I am finally pushing the divorce. We had been married 36 years when I finally left.

My life is so much better now that I am on my on, taking care of me and working a recovery. Not the happy ending you expected I know but that is there for you too if you start working on yourself. He might get better, he might not, so don't pin your happiness to what he might or might not do.

Also, alcoholism is a progressive disease. What you are seeing now is the best it is going to get if he doesn't get into recovery himself. Do you really want to be in a situation several years down the road when you look back on this as the good old days?

Your friend,

CodeJob

Carmen,

Your ABF is not healthy. He is not capable of 'healthy future thinking."

When I do what you are doing, I call it 'future-tripping.' I'm not capable of healthy future thinking either. And believe me, I LOVE to plan. I want to build a nice spreadsheet detailing my life, my son's life, the rest of my career, my H's career, and what we are going to do in retirement.

Toss an addiction or cancer into that spreadsheet and it comes down to this at month 11 of 'early recovery'- went to work, paid monthly bills, dinner plan for Tuesday figured out, overdue library book in car so I can return it.

Stung

He probably does. Getting into recovery and becoming sober is HARD ans takes LOTS AND LOTS of woek for the rest of his life. Selfish, very time consuming, hard work. And the alcoholic has to want it for selfish reasons. Getting married probably isn't going to be motivation for him to find sobriety. Ditto for kids. Do you want to marry an active alcoholic? Because that's who he is today. Is who he is today going to be good enough for you? Because: this will probably stay the same for him until he decides he wants them to change. You cannot make him see the light. You cannot control his drinking or when it if he'll get sober.

Has anyone recommended the book Codependent No More by Melody Beattie to you? If not, it might be an eye opening read for you about the role we play with loving alcoholics.

FireSprite

Yes, this. ^^

I think there are SO many factors that play into this Carmen, I definitely think that having a lot of sober, wonderful years before addiction was ever a possiblity in our relationship is helping us navigate through recovery. I *know* the person he was inside, it's just a question of if/how much of that person can/will return during true recovery. I can't control that, can't predict it. The way that alcohol went from a sometimes social thing for years to a regular to an addiction & the changes that he underwent as a person, physically, emotionally & mentally are astonishing. Yes, he sees that now but it took him years even in recovery to fully see & acknowledge it.

Even at that, it has taken my RAH more than 2 yrs to get serious about recovery in a life-changing, rock-bottom-moment kind of way because that is the way he is choosing to travel HIS path through recovery. Our ways of managing this period of our lives is very, very different on some levels but I am starting to {finally} see a few threads starting to loosely tie up. A few. Loosely. And that's not to minimize the work he is doing in his recovery this time around, not ignoring obvious growth. For me it's been YEARS of dealing with the pain so while I am thrilled with his 4ish months of true strides in recovery, I'm not planning a parade anytime soon. I still need to focus on me. There's still no guarantee we'll ever get to happily-ever-after.

If we had been together less time, hadn't already supported each through so much in life, had a child together & built an entire life together, I would never be this patient for this long. There wouldn't be anything to base the relationship around {IMO only - I'm speaking strictly FOR ME}.... if we had started dating while he when he was already a very active alcoholic there is no doubt in my mind that that I really didn't know him at all. Because he doesn't even know himself at that point.

CodeJob

Great suggestion Stung. I really had a lot of anger accepting the codependency role. I have had this book recommended to me twice, so finally I bought it one day. I read it. Then when I got done, I read it again. Now not every chapter applies to me, but a few of them are seriously awash in highliter... I also found some of her journal question suggestions helpful.

carmen220

Just spoke to him. He is a master at deflecting everything wrong in our relationship back to me. He says that I won't look at myself. He starts criticizing, saying I should say certain things or should act a certain way; that I am too sensitive, too negative, loves to point out my age to me (we are the same age) and remind me that there are no men out there for me now, always implying that he only wants to see me if sex is involved, saying that he's highly sexual, etc... says sexual comments to me that feel insulting, rather than romantic. he knows I don't like this; he thinks it's funny and that I "need to grow up" and stop "whining like a child", etc....

I feel exhausted trying to communicate effectively with him and feel like crying afterwards. Once I became emotional on the phone and he refused to talk to me if I was going to be emotional. So, I feel myself hardening more.

Then he does a 180; he becomes a different person; the man I dream of; vulnerable, sweet, being respectful, saying our relationship means more to him than sex; he just likes to see / be with me, even if there's no sex. Then, he starts saying sensible things, like a real man; respectfully, loving, kind. Acts supportive, making me laugh (he can be so funny) and becomes a best friend again. I'm just so confused. I don't know who he is.

When he acts up in a negative way, sees that I'm upset, he manages at some point to turn it around and wrap things up in a nice neat, happy package, so that the conversation ends well and that all is good between us.

I feel so torn, upset, confused, manipulated, helpless, exhausted.

When I do feel that I'm getting "sense" through to him, he thinks about it a few days and decides he doesn't agree and changes once again.

He defiantly said, "my friend is visiting and we will be drinking a lot". It's like he's daring me to "nag" or say something (he knows how I feel and still throws it in my face). I said, "I thought you were working on it". He says, sarcastically, "you know, your not going to tell me what to do with my friend". "I'm going to have a good time".

on another day, he'd say, "your right. we'll get through this. I love you so much". He let it slip that other women have complained about the same behaviors that I've complained about, including his female family members; he thinks it's just male vs female traits. Yet, he never changes.

Of course, all ends with "I love you".

I feel so defeated. He knows how badly I want all to be okay and he takes advantage of that.

I did not grow up in dysfunction; my home life was ideal. I'm just single and can't find my "partner". I'm doing the best I can. I never wanted to meet an A.

Hammer

soooo. You have figured THAT game out?

Really -- you are doing ok. Really.

Sure. And THAT is good enough.

Understood. Looking back, mine came looking for me. Who knew, huh?

You understand the BEST part forward for you?

YOU. Yeah YOU. Really that simple.

If you want to upgrade to a real winning combination it is: YOU + GOD.

That is sort of like an unstoppable force for GOOD.

No A required.

CodeJob

Carmen,

I think you know what is behind this indecisive relationship. You wrote "I'm just single and can't find my 'partner.'" You are afraid if ABF is not it - then who? Your ABF is not a partner - he is an excuse for you not going out and finding a better one. He is a stand in for your own fear and from the conversation detailed above, he seems aware of your desires and is using them to manipulate you. Are you afraid of being alone? Have faith that you deserve better and move on.

FireSprite

Carmen - that "go-away, come-back" push & pull is another classic manipulation move by alcoholics.... build you up & then tear you down. It's textbook, along with the ability to do that 180 flip-flop, seemingly mid-stride.

This part jumped out of your post at me:

I remember that exhaustion. Trust me honey, it isn't normal to feel that way from a conversation. Mine was also accompanied by this roaring white-noise kind of static at the back of my brain & generally topped off with a migraine. It was because of the sheer amount of WORK that went into every single conversation, no matter how simple of a discussion it *should* have been. It's like conversational dancing, trying to keep up with someone talking circles like that. That was my first clue that now I was letting MY health erode due to his choices.

He is. He is daring you to define & stick to your boundaries. JMHO.

dandylion

carmen---no woman should tolerate the kinds of things he has said and done to you. He does not respect you (nor, himself, either). He does not love you. He is incapable because he is an alcoholic and his thinking and reality are distorted by the thinking and attitudes that accompany alcoholism. Somehow your low self-esteem allows you to grasp onto crumbs of good treatment.

You don't deserve to be treated this way. Real love doesn't hurt and make you feel "less than". Don't let this man fool you and ruin your life.

dandylion