Court orders puts us at poverty level
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by Richardswife 
Why is the kids' father not responsible for their medical insurance? @lexiecat
He was not reimbursing me for medical expenses even though it is court ordered. And he did not have the kids under vision (all three wear glasses/contacts) and he didn't have them on dental. He only had medical. And because he wasn't paying me and didn't have then fully insured. We had the judge approve them being out in my current AH employer insurance plan.
He was not reimbursing me for medical expenses even though it is court ordered. And he did not have the kids under vision (all three wear glasses/contacts) and he didn't have them on dental. He only had medical. And because he wasn't paying me and didn't have then fully insured. We had the judge approve them being out in my current AH employer insurance plan.
You really need competent legal advice. I also suggest that if your husband is abusive you contact the domestic violence hotline or your local shelter to talk with an advocate who can help you.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by LexieCat
Oh, and Pippi, this is still early stages. Nothing is carved in stone at this point. See what your lawyer has to say.
My emotional baggage
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 285
Pippi,
As I was reading the first page, I was talking to my computer and telling everyone wait, wait, wait, wait. You are in the early stages, just getting going. You just got jurisdiction. I would think the judge only ordered that amount so you could immediately have something going.
When I first started going to court a year ago the judge just arbitrarily came up with a number of $600 per month for both boys. That barely covered daycare. I totally cried. My attorney reassured me that each state has formulas they use. You can most likely find your states online. You punch in all the numbers of his income, yours, etc and they come up with a base number for child support. Then you will negotiate things like alimony etc.
This is most likely the springboard for you financially. To get you going until the lawyers get to start taking all the other money that is out there while they hash it out. And at least in California, my now XAH had to pay for health care for both boys and I until the divorce was final. And on top of child support he pays 1/2 daycare and 1/2 for my older sons counseling.
I highly suggest going through Child Support Services and having the state garnish his wages for support. It can be deposited directly into you account. No waiting for checks. My ex would never pay his if I had not set this up right away. It is great because he has getting lax paying for his half of daycare and counseling recently, so guess what? The lawyers are not giving him the option of missing it anymore and an addition $350 per month will now be coming out of his check.
You will get there. It will seem miserable for a while. It took me about 6 months to get to a real child support number. And to get into the more final numbers it has taken me honestly almost a year because my divorce has been so messy and complicated with the child custody issues but now we are getting to the financial stuff and I am feeling soooooo much better.
You can do this! It sucks but you can do this!!
4MyBoys
As I was reading the first page, I was talking to my computer and telling everyone wait, wait, wait, wait. You are in the early stages, just getting going. You just got jurisdiction. I would think the judge only ordered that amount so you could immediately have something going.
When I first started going to court a year ago the judge just arbitrarily came up with a number of $600 per month for both boys. That barely covered daycare. I totally cried. My attorney reassured me that each state has formulas they use. You can most likely find your states online. You punch in all the numbers of his income, yours, etc and they come up with a base number for child support. Then you will negotiate things like alimony etc.
This is most likely the springboard for you financially. To get you going until the lawyers get to start taking all the other money that is out there while they hash it out. And at least in California, my now XAH had to pay for health care for both boys and I until the divorce was final. And on top of child support he pays 1/2 daycare and 1/2 for my older sons counseling.
I highly suggest going through Child Support Services and having the state garnish his wages for support. It can be deposited directly into you account. No waiting for checks. My ex would never pay his if I had not set this up right away. It is great because he has getting lax paying for his half of daycare and counseling recently, so guess what? The lawyers are not giving him the option of missing it anymore and an addition $350 per month will now be coming out of his check.
You will get there. It will seem miserable for a while. It took me about 6 months to get to a real child support number. And to get into the more final numbers it has taken me honestly almost a year because my divorce has been so messy and complicated with the child custody issues but now we are getting to the financial stuff and I am feeling soooooo much better.
You can do this! It sucks but you can do this!!
4MyBoys
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: london
Posts: 4
Sorry you are going through this! Are you in Canada? just wondering because I am and I found out that since I just recently separated my salary, that I considered reasonable but apparently the government doesn't lol, makes me eligible for a good cheque from them on a monthly basis.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Hang tight my friend. It's only the beginning. My experience of the American judicial system is that while it at times tends to move at the speed of a dead turtle, it does work. I would trust it over any European judicial system when it comes to family law. Seriously.
Don't despair yet. Deep breaths. It sounds scary but it ain't over til it's over.
Don't despair yet. Deep breaths. It sounds scary but it ain't over til it's over.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
Canada sounds good. Maybe we'll be there.
Seriously, the problem with the American court stepping in is that their calculations are for Massachusetts. In MA, with the house, and that money, we'd be ok economically.
But we settled and integrated and citizens in Europe and the Massachusetts formula applied to us puts us at poverty level, especially with rents the way they are here. And we live in a tiny place at the low low end for this area.
The formula doesn't consider expenses outside of MA, right?
It seems that since custody is determined here, support for the children should be decided here too, no?!
Thank you all for responding yesterday. I was in one dark place. Your words held me together.
Seriously, the problem with the American court stepping in is that their calculations are for Massachusetts. In MA, with the house, and that money, we'd be ok economically.
But we settled and integrated and citizens in Europe and the Massachusetts formula applied to us puts us at poverty level, especially with rents the way they are here. And we live in a tiny place at the low low end for this area.
The formula doesn't consider expenses outside of MA, right?
It seems that since custody is determined here, support for the children should be decided here too, no?!
Thank you all for responding yesterday. I was in one dark place. Your words held me together.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I think you are very likely to get a much more substantial support amount once the court is in possession of all the relevant facts. Formulas only give the court a starting point. Keep breathing. He wasn't paying a dime before, right? So even this amount should help.
Patience. I know it isn't easy, but patience.
Patience. I know it isn't easy, but patience.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by PippiLngstockng
Massachusetts formula...
Wow.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
In NJ, the "formula" does exactly the same thing. HOWEVER, the law is that where the guidelines no longer apply, the amount of support is individually determined. So as I said, the formula is just a starting point. Believe me, the top number for the formula is not the max you can get!
ETA: And even where the formula DOES apply, special circumstances can dictate a deviation from the formula. Unusual cost of living expenses, as long as they are not unreasonable, would be one such factor.
ETA: And even where the formula DOES apply, special circumstances can dictate a deviation from the formula. Unusual cost of living expenses, as long as they are not unreasonable, would be one such factor.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
Pippi, I've been kind of hanging back on these threads because I've got a lot to say and I'm not totally "over" my situation yet. Money has been an ongoing issue in my family of origin and with both of my kids' dads. Both come from extremely wealthy families, and both have done everything possible to keep from paying me more than the minimum child support. It's a situation that has cause a lot, A LOT, of bitterness in my life. In fact, the bitterness I felt with #1 helped to mask the dire situation I was in with #2. My focus on #1, his new houses (plural), new cars (plural), gazillions of new gadgets, crossed with the fact that he can't be counted on to buy DS13 clothes that fit his growing body or shoes (never), a winter coat (once), or school fees (never) -- became a huge topic of discussion in my life.
I'm now mired in it with #2, whose support is calculated at minimum wage, which doesn't even cover 1/2 of the baby's daycare. And now we're dividing up all our possessions, and he's taking everything that's "his," which means I have a lot to replace on my salary. He will never want for anything, and his parents know we struggle and offer me and their grandkids nothing. I don't get it.
So my suggestion, having been there? Is to take control of your life. You're a cosmopolitan family now. If it's too expensive to live where you live, move. Yes, I'm telling you to move. Make new friends, find new opportunities. Been out of the workforce? Don't settle for a low income job, go back to school. Suck it up and take out the loans and just go. MAKE YOUR LIFE. Make your life so you can live and be and love exactly as you want to, without his pushing and pulling and manipulating.
Fight for what's due to you in court, and don't back off because he's threatening or exhausting, but make contingency plans now. Make plans that don't rest on a significant other's generosity.
I argued with #1 for many years about this. It never changed. He's still neck deep in unearned riches while I raise his son neck deep in debt. I will do it again with my second child. Yes, it's absolutely unfair. Yes, it hurts. My family was in a position to help me and still is, they have chosen not to and I don't know why. Yes, it's unfair. Yes, it hurts. But do it anyway or continue to suffer this pain and anguish.
Said with love and experience.
I'm now mired in it with #2, whose support is calculated at minimum wage, which doesn't even cover 1/2 of the baby's daycare. And now we're dividing up all our possessions, and he's taking everything that's "his," which means I have a lot to replace on my salary. He will never want for anything, and his parents know we struggle and offer me and their grandkids nothing. I don't get it.
So my suggestion, having been there? Is to take control of your life. You're a cosmopolitan family now. If it's too expensive to live where you live, move. Yes, I'm telling you to move. Make new friends, find new opportunities. Been out of the workforce? Don't settle for a low income job, go back to school. Suck it up and take out the loans and just go. MAKE YOUR LIFE. Make your life so you can live and be and love exactly as you want to, without his pushing and pulling and manipulating.
Fight for what's due to you in court, and don't back off because he's threatening or exhausting, but make contingency plans now. Make plans that don't rest on a significant other's generosity.
I argued with #1 for many years about this. It never changed. He's still neck deep in unearned riches while I raise his son neck deep in debt. I will do it again with my second child. Yes, it's absolutely unfair. Yes, it hurts. My family was in a position to help me and still is, they have chosen not to and I don't know why. Yes, it's unfair. Yes, it hurts. But do it anyway or continue to suffer this pain and anguish.
Said with love and experience.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by Florence
So my suggestion, having been there? Is to take control of your life. You're a cosmopolitan family now. If it's too expensive to live where you live, move. Yes, I'm telling you to move. Make new friends, find new opportunities. Been out of the workforce? Don't settle for a low income job, go back to school. Suck it up and take out the loans and just go. MAKE YOUR LIFE. Make your life so you can live and be and love exactly as you want to, without his pushing and pulling and manipulating.
And add me to the "been there" group. I can attest to taking complete charge of my life. 10 years ago, I agreed to a reduced child support amount in order to move back to my home state with my girls. I stayed in his home state after our divorce and finished both a bachelor's and a master's degree, and tried with little success to break into my field there. The moment came where I knew moving back "home" meant better employment prospects. It caused havoc, of course, but when I agreed to take $200 less a month, he signed off on the release and we moved a month later.
That was 10 years ago, and we've made it work, even though at first there were some lean months. Now I am in a high administration position with a great salary and an amazing benefits package. I haven't relied on child support for 6 years now - which worked out well because when the economy tanked, my ex's business also tanked. Those checks are few and far between.
I fought for my first job here - literally humbled myself in front of an employer and told him he wouldn't regret giving me a chance.
I lived in what the girls now call the "ghetto" - a little 4 plex in the sticks outside of town, with some seriously whacked neighbors, until we were able to afford a small condo in town. Now I own a nice house.
We have great memories - just the three of us - and although it was a struggle, I fought for everything I have in life today and its a great source of pride for me.
Their Dad sent me a Christmas card this year, thanking me for doing such a good job raising them. I know he thought I'd fail...he told me so. That card was an admittance of failure on his part, and it felt good! Ha!
And FWIW, I was a stay-at-home-Mom for almost 10 years before I re-entered the workforce. And I am still paying off student loans. But it was all worth it.
Consider what Florence says above. I can't even begin to describe the feeling of independence when I cut that cord with my ex. It removed any and all power he had over me.
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 877
Originally Posted by Tuffgirl
Florence, well said!
And add me to the "been there" group. I can attest to taking complete charge of my life. 10 years ago, I agreed to a reduced child support amount in order to move back to my home state with my girls. I stayed in his home state after our divorce and finished both a bachelor's and a master's degree, and tried with little success to break into my field there. The moment came where I knew moving back "home" meant better employment prospects. It caused havoc, of course, but when I agreed to take $200 less a month, he signed off on the release and we moved a month later.
That was 10 years ago, and we've made it work, even though at first there were some lean months. Now I am in a high administration position with a great salary and an amazing benefits package. I haven't relied on child support for 6 years now - which worked out well because when the economy tanked, my ex's business also tanked. Those checks are few and far between.
I fought for my first job here - literally humbled myself in front of an employer and told him he wouldn't regret giving me a chance.
I lived in what the girls now call the "ghetto" - a little 4 plex in the sticks outside of town, with some seriously whacked neighbors, until we were able to afford a small condo in town. Now I own a nice house.
We have great memories - just the three of us - and although it was a struggle, I fought for everything I have in life today and its a great source of pride for me.
Their Dad sent me a Christmas card this year, thanking me for doing such a good job raising them. I know he thought I'd fail...he told me so. That card was an admittance of failure on his part, and it felt good! Ha!
And FWIW, I was a stay-at-home-Mom for almost 10 years before I re-entered the workforce. And I am still paying off student loans. But it was all worth it.
Consider what Florence says above. I can't even begin to describe the feeling of independence when I cut that cord with my ex. It removed any and all power he had over me.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 877
Originally Posted by Florence
Pippi, I've been kind of hanging back on these threads because I've got a lot to say and I'm not totally "over" my situation yet. Money has been an ongoing issue in my family of origin and with both of my kids' dads. Both come from extremely wealthy families, and both have done everything possible to keep from paying me more than the minimum child support. It's a situation that has cause a lot, A LOT, of bitterness in my life. In fact, the bitterness I felt with #1 helped to mask the dire situation I was in with #2. My focus on #1, his new houses (plural), new cars (plural), gazillions of new gadgets, crossed with the fact that he can't be counted on to buy DS13 clothes that fit his growing body or shoes (never), a winter coat (once), or school fees (never) -- became a huge topic of discussion in my life.
I'm now mired in it with #2, whose support is calculated at minimum wage, which doesn't even cover 1/2 of the baby's daycare. And now we're dividing up all our possessions, and he's taking everything that's "his," which means I have a lot to replace on my salary. He will never want for anything, and his parents know we struggle and offer me and their grandkids nothing. I don't get it.
So my suggestion, having been there? Is to take control of your life. You're a cosmopolitan family now. If it's too expensive to live where you live, move. Yes, I'm telling you to move. Make new friends, find new opportunities. Been out of the workforce? Don't settle for a low income job, go back to school. Suck it up and take out the loans and just go. MAKE YOUR LIFE. Make your life so you can live and be and love exactly as you want to, without his pushing and pulling and manipulating.
Fight for what's due to you in court, and don't back off because he's threatening or exhausting, but make contingency plans now. Make plans that don't rest on a significant other's generosity.
I argued with #1 for many years about this. It never changed. He's still neck deep in unearned riches while I raise his son neck deep in debt. I will do it again with my second child. Yes, it's absolutely unfair. Yes, it hurts. My family was in a position to help me and still is, they have chosen not to and I don't know why. Yes, it's unfair. Yes, it hurts. But do it anyway or continue to suffer this pain and anguish.
Said with love and experience.
I'm now mired in it with #2, whose support is calculated at minimum wage, which doesn't even cover 1/2 of the baby's daycare. And now we're dividing up all our possessions, and he's taking everything that's "his," which means I have a lot to replace on my salary. He will never want for anything, and his parents know we struggle and offer me and their grandkids nothing. I don't get it.
So my suggestion, having been there? Is to take control of your life. You're a cosmopolitan family now. If it's too expensive to live where you live, move. Yes, I'm telling you to move. Make new friends, find new opportunities. Been out of the workforce? Don't settle for a low income job, go back to school. Suck it up and take out the loans and just go. MAKE YOUR LIFE. Make your life so you can live and be and love exactly as you want to, without his pushing and pulling and manipulating.
Fight for what's due to you in court, and don't back off because he's threatening or exhausting, but make contingency plans now. Make plans that don't rest on a significant other's generosity.
I argued with #1 for many years about this. It never changed. He's still neck deep in unearned riches while I raise his son neck deep in debt. I will do it again with my second child. Yes, it's absolutely unfair. Yes, it hurts. My family was in a position to help me and still is, they have chosen not to and I don't know why. Yes, it's unfair. Yes, it hurts. But do it anyway or continue to suffer this pain and anguish.
Said with love and experience.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
I fought for my first job here - literally humbled myself in front of an employer and told him he wouldn't regret giving me a chance.
I lived in what the girls now call the "ghetto" - a little 4 plex in the sticks outside of town, with some seriously whacked neighbors, until we were able to afford a small condo in town. Now I own a nice house.
We have great memories - just the three of us - and although it was a struggle, I fought for everything I have in life today and its a great source of pride for me.
I lived in what the girls now call the "ghetto" - a little 4 plex in the sticks outside of town, with some seriously whacked neighbors, until we were able to afford a small condo in town. Now I own a nice house.
We have great memories - just the three of us - and although it was a struggle, I fought for everything I have in life today and its a great source of pride for me.
All the women in my family have emphasized over and over that you can NEVER blindly count on a husband to support you, regardless of your agreements and arrangements. One of my sisters started her own business while she was a stay at home mom and pulls 70K working out of her own living room. The other one was a stay at home mom for 15 years, got a jolt one day when her husband did something she really disapproved of, and she realized she was living entirely on his generosity. The power imbalance was a no-go, so she went back to school and became a nurse. She makes her own hours now and makes money hand over fist.
I'm just saying, this is a perfect time for the new Pippi to clean out the rest of the old Pippi and build herself from the ground up. You get thousands of do-overs in your lifetime. Nothing here is permanent, including that support he owes you. Take the reins.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Caveat.........
Just a minor warning here.....even if you get court-ordered alimony and court-ordered child support, that doesn't mean you'll ever see a dime.....sad, but true.....
(o:
NoelleR
P.S Regarding this 'at the poverty level'......... You do realize that what a spouse pays in alimony/child support is NOT supposed to be the total support; it's just supposed to be his/her share.
(o:
NoelleR
P.S Regarding this 'at the poverty level'......... You do realize that what a spouse pays in alimony/child support is NOT supposed to be the total support; it's just supposed to be his/her share.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
I talked to my lawyer yesterday. The conversation was just, well, BLEAK.
Either I negotiate, which means he gets everything he wants - or I ask for more support through going to the court, which would be costly and my lawyer says it isn't a plan likely to succeed; or I wait through a lengthy divorce and in 1.5 years from now the assets to get partitioned.
I can return to the big house in MA. But then I have to pay the mortgage and utilities. The house is expensive to maintain. I wouldn't gain much financially. Just we would have the big house in the country instead of the tiny apt in the best place in the world. We could move to Holland where most of my family is and where I am a citizen. Holland might protect the children better. I will ask the embassy today. Or we could move in with my mother. That would make our lives affordable certainly. But in the last two scenarios we would be starting all over. And my children would suffer from another move. We moved here three years ago and it was a huge transition. I will do it if forced to but I am going to try everything first to figure out a way to let them stay here.
I would love to return for schooling/training. I have a Master's and had a successful career eons ago. But I don't know how we will make it if I have no income.
I will ask about the local universities and see if they have any programs to help someone like me, where I could also work while I studied. That would make lots of sense.
I feel better just writing this. In the meantime, the children are doing crafts by my side, it's peaceful in the house, and it's a lovely morning in my favorite village in the world.
Either I negotiate, which means he gets everything he wants - or I ask for more support through going to the court, which would be costly and my lawyer says it isn't a plan likely to succeed; or I wait through a lengthy divorce and in 1.5 years from now the assets to get partitioned.
I can return to the big house in MA. But then I have to pay the mortgage and utilities. The house is expensive to maintain. I wouldn't gain much financially. Just we would have the big house in the country instead of the tiny apt in the best place in the world. We could move to Holland where most of my family is and where I am a citizen. Holland might protect the children better. I will ask the embassy today. Or we could move in with my mother. That would make our lives affordable certainly. But in the last two scenarios we would be starting all over. And my children would suffer from another move. We moved here three years ago and it was a huge transition. I will do it if forced to but I am going to try everything first to figure out a way to let them stay here.
I would love to return for schooling/training. I have a Master's and had a successful career eons ago. But I don't know how we will make it if I have no income.
I will ask about the local universities and see if they have any programs to help someone like me, where I could also work while I studied. That would make lots of sense.
I feel better just writing this. In the meantime, the children are doing crafts by my side, it's peaceful in the house, and it's a lovely morning in my favorite village in the world.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 164
I was happy to see how you ended that post! I hope you do realize how lucky you are and how far ahead of a lot of people you are already! Please continue to count your blessings:
A peaceful happy home
Family that will allow you to move in and would want to help you
An education and degree
Options!
You have many blessings that a lot of us would give anything to have at this point in our lives. And I know you appreciate them and know that! You are a strong and intelligent person, you are a loving and caring mom, you will find a way to make this all work and with minimum suffering to your children!
A peaceful happy home
Family that will allow you to move in and would want to help you
An education and degree
Options!
You have many blessings that a lot of us would give anything to have at this point in our lives. And I know you appreciate them and know that! You are a strong and intelligent person, you are a loving and caring mom, you will find a way to make this all work and with minimum suffering to your children!
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Your lawyer doesn't see any prospect of an increase in the pendente lite (temporary) support? She can't file a motion based on the differences in the cost of living where you are?
Seems to me that you have a little bit of leverage, yourself, in the negotiation arena. The tradeoff is the marital assets versus the support amount. He is rolling the dice if he lets the court decide, so he's got some incentive to offer you something substantial enough for you to settle.
Seems to me that you have a little bit of leverage, yourself, in the negotiation arena. The tradeoff is the marital assets versus the support amount. He is rolling the dice if he lets the court decide, so he's got some incentive to offer you something substantial enough for you to settle.
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