Court orders puts us at poverty level
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Weeelll, the caveat is that I am not an expert in family law, except as it pertains to domestic violence. And even with that, the law is different in different places. I know a little bit because there is often overlap, with victims who also are dealing with child support/visitation issues.
My "advice" around here is mainly thoughts or ideas that might be worth discussing with a lawyer qualified to represent you.
My "advice" around here is mainly thoughts or ideas that might be worth discussing with a lawyer qualified to represent you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
I know jazzman, Lexie's awesome
My lawyer was SO negative about my situation. She basically said I can fight the temporary orders but it would cost a ton and there was only an off chance I would succeed. She seems to think I should go for a quick negotiation, giving up any restrictions on visitation in order to get the divorce settled and house sold.
This happened with my lawyer over here. He wants me to negotiate. In both cases that translates to give stbx everything he wants. I canned that lawyer and hired another the same day who got me into a MUCH better situation vis-a-vis visitation this summer. He said the previous lawyer wanted to put me in a suicidal position.
So here I am again thinking I have to find a new lawyer in the States. That or just give up entirely without legal representation, because she hasn't helped me one iota. The result from the court hearing is as if I had had no legal representation at all. He got exactly what he wanted and we don't even have healthcare!
I am spending each day just trying to keep myself from falling completely apart.
Lexie, you seem to see far more hope in my situation than my lawyer does. It is hard because I can't even meet these lawyers in the States. I am here across the ocean and this is all happening in my absence.
My lawyer was SO negative about my situation. She basically said I can fight the temporary orders but it would cost a ton and there was only an off chance I would succeed. She seems to think I should go for a quick negotiation, giving up any restrictions on visitation in order to get the divorce settled and house sold.
This happened with my lawyer over here. He wants me to negotiate. In both cases that translates to give stbx everything he wants. I canned that lawyer and hired another the same day who got me into a MUCH better situation vis-a-vis visitation this summer. He said the previous lawyer wanted to put me in a suicidal position.
So here I am again thinking I have to find a new lawyer in the States. That or just give up entirely without legal representation, because she hasn't helped me one iota. The result from the court hearing is as if I had had no legal representation at all. He got exactly what he wanted and we don't even have healthcare!
I am spending each day just trying to keep myself from falling completely apart.
Lexie, you seem to see far more hope in my situation than my lawyer does. It is hard because I can't even meet these lawyers in the States. I am here across the ocean and this is all happening in my absence.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Well, I think they are right in the sense that a "quick negotiation" might save you the most money at this point. OTOH, family courts can usually order one party to pay the other's legal fees--especially when they are attributable to one party's recalcitrance and refusal to negotiate in good faith. I can't pretend to know more than your actual lawyers. I'm just thinking that if your concern is that you will be stuck in "poverty" (which really is a relative term--poverty where you are, or even in the U.S. is a far cry from living in a third world country) for years, maybe if you can hold out for another year or so you can make out much better.
I guess I don't see what's so complicated about providing the court with information about the cost of living where you are, how you came to be living where you are (that you originally went there because of HIS job), your available resources pending the divorce, and why you aren't able to just go "get a job". I suppose it's possible live testimony from you would be needed, so that's a consideration.
I think your situation is way too complicated to handle it yourself. Maybe you could arrange for a consultation with another lawyer. That is usually free or at a low cost. If that person's take on your situation is the same as your current lawyer, at least you will know a little better where you stand.
I guess I don't see what's so complicated about providing the court with information about the cost of living where you are, how you came to be living where you are (that you originally went there because of HIS job), your available resources pending the divorce, and why you aren't able to just go "get a job". I suppose it's possible live testimony from you would be needed, so that's a consideration.
I think your situation is way too complicated to handle it yourself. Maybe you could arrange for a consultation with another lawyer. That is usually free or at a low cost. If that person's take on your situation is the same as your current lawyer, at least you will know a little better where you stand.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rochester, ny
Posts: 405
Originally Posted by LexieCat 
Weeelll, the caveat is that I am not an expert in family law, except as it pertains to domestic violence. And even with that, the law is different in different places. I know a little bit because there is often overlap, with victims who also are dealing with child support/visitation issues.
My "advice" around here is mainly thoughts or ideas that might be worth discussing with a lawyer qualified to represent you.
My "advice" around here is mainly thoughts or ideas that might be worth discussing with a lawyer qualified to represent you.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Your attorney might be suggesting a quick settlement because she knows you can't afford a lengthy legal battle. Maybe she has her own agenda.
When I was getting divorced I read up over at divorcesource.com where they have good summary info on a state by state basis. Then going to my own counties web site for tons of details on domestic law.
A quick glance at MA property division and I see it's an equitable distribution state but has an interesting kitchen sink rule for division of marital property. In VA I'm entitled to all pre marital and inherited property but not so in MA.
Do you have a good feel for all the marital property both premarital and inherited? You could stand to walk with a pretty big check if you have multiple mega homes. That might be your best negotiating position.
When I was getting divorced I read up over at divorcesource.com where they have good summary info on a state by state basis. Then going to my own counties web site for tons of details on domestic law.
A quick glance at MA property division and I see it's an equitable distribution state but has an interesting kitchen sink rule for division of marital property. In VA I'm entitled to all pre marital and inherited property but not so in MA.
Do you have a good feel for all the marital property both premarital and inherited? You could stand to walk with a pretty big check if you have multiple mega homes. That might be your best negotiating position.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
Seconding the thought that maybe your attorney has her own agenda.
My first custody legal experience was nightmarish. My ex is a vindictive idiot and hired a lady that will keep you up to your eyeballs in paperwork. My lawyer was imptaient with me and really unhelpful.
This time I asked around -- all my friends and contacts, people who I knew had been to court. Hey guys, I need a bulldog lawyer, one that's not afraid to stand his/her ground and tell me the uncut truth. I got one. He tells me if I'm being unrealistic or wishy-washy.
Ask all your friends from your hometown in the US. Put something out on Facebook or something. Get a little creative and a little ruthless, and keep making those contingency plans.
You're stronger and craftier than you know.
My first custody legal experience was nightmarish. My ex is a vindictive idiot and hired a lady that will keep you up to your eyeballs in paperwork. My lawyer was imptaient with me and really unhelpful.
This time I asked around -- all my friends and contacts, people who I knew had been to court. Hey guys, I need a bulldog lawyer, one that's not afraid to stand his/her ground and tell me the uncut truth. I got one. He tells me if I'm being unrealistic or wishy-washy.
Ask all your friends from your hometown in the US. Put something out on Facebook or something. Get a little creative and a little ruthless, and keep making those contingency plans.
You're stronger and craftier than you know.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Side story sorta, M used a pit bull on crack for her 1st divorce, I later consulted with him over a support/custody skirmish with my 1st wife. Then when M and I were swapping lawyer threats she discovered she could NOT use her lawyer cuz now there was a conflict of interest. That was well worth the $250 I spent getting advice from him a couple years prior.
So I went and got the OTHER pit bull on crack so of the two local high dollar firms you would want in your corner, she could use none of them. This was accidental on my part but I've learned it's a common practice. Sneaky folks go around getting a couple consults from the meanest and best firms in town and they can never litigate against you.
So I went and got the OTHER pit bull on crack so of the two local high dollar firms you would want in your corner, she could use none of them. This was accidental on my part but I've learned it's a common practice. Sneaky folks go around getting a couple consults from the meanest and best firms in town and they can never litigate against you.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Hey Pippi,
Sorry, I missed what the actual numbers were in all that . . . but this is quite a step up from nothing . . . where you had been?
Remember in all this . . . Progress, not Perfection. Keep Practicing the Principles, and things do get better as fast as we will let them.
Sorry, I missed what the actual numbers were in all that . . . but this is quite a step up from nothing . . . where you had been?
Remember in all this . . . Progress, not Perfection. Keep Practicing the Principles, and things do get better as fast as we will let them.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
Hi all,
I had to take a step back for a few days. Then yesterday I spoke to the law office here. They insist I appeal in the US then they wrote to the court here saying this country should still take the divorce because the American judicial system determined support in a way that is totally contrary to the system here and makes it nearly impossible fir us to get by.
Now my American lawyer is angry with me !!! Because the lawyer wrote here that the US decision is being appealed. She says there is no foundation on which to base an appeal. I said if we begin an appeal then this country might still take the divorce.
Why is my American lawyer angry with me?
What could her 'other agenda' be?
We have been using our coins to buy groceries because AH removed all the money from our account!
I had to take a step back for a few days. Then yesterday I spoke to the law office here. They insist I appeal in the US then they wrote to the court here saying this country should still take the divorce because the American judicial system determined support in a way that is totally contrary to the system here and makes it nearly impossible fir us to get by.
Now my American lawyer is angry with me !!! Because the lawyer wrote here that the US decision is being appealed. She says there is no foundation on which to base an appeal. I said if we begin an appeal then this country might still take the divorce.
Why is my American lawyer angry with me?
What could her 'other agenda' be?
We have been using our coins to buy groceries because AH removed all the money from our account!
I AM CANADIAN
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 2,578
who know what character flaws your lawyer has, sounds like a EGO and control type that is lazy, wants it over and done with
ooh i like that civil suit...
what happens with the insurance on the exhusbands plan? i dont get that...children should still be covered up until 18, with him regardless
ooh i like that civil suit...
what happens with the insurance on the exhusbands plan? i dont get that...children should still be covered up until 18, with him regardless
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
The appellate process is pretty slow. You aren't likely to get a decision on appeal for a year. But filing it might keep the jurisdictional issue "open" to give the European court time to reconsider. I'm speculating to some extent because I don't know how the jurisdictional issues are decided. My international law skills are pretty rusty.
Your American lawyer might simply be annoyed because she thinks there is no basis for appealing, and you aren't following her advice. I don't know whether she is correct or not. I don't believe it is a "final decision" that can be appealed without either the trial court or the appellate court granting special permission to appeal. The temporary support order is what's called an "interlocutory" order; usually only final decisions are appealable as of right. So maybe she's just frustrated because she doesn't think this is the kind of case the appellate court would even decide. There doesn't have to be an "agenda" other than a wish to follow the course she believes has a chance of success.
This is complicated, no doubt about it. And reasonable lawyers can and do disagree.
Your American lawyer might simply be annoyed because she thinks there is no basis for appealing, and you aren't following her advice. I don't know whether she is correct or not. I don't believe it is a "final decision" that can be appealed without either the trial court or the appellate court granting special permission to appeal. The temporary support order is what's called an "interlocutory" order; usually only final decisions are appealable as of right. So maybe she's just frustrated because she doesn't think this is the kind of case the appellate court would even decide. There doesn't have to be an "agenda" other than a wish to follow the course she believes has a chance of success.
This is complicated, no doubt about it. And reasonable lawyers can and do disagree.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
Just to update,
You are all pretty on target I believe. This lawyer went ahead against my better judgement and pressed the American court to take the case, hoping it would provide adequate support and knowing the court might not.
The support is inadequate and puts us in an untenable situation and she doesn't seem eager to do more. Her viewpoint is entirely unhelpful to me.
I am seeking another opinion before taking further action. My lawyer here is still hoping the court in these parts will go ahead with the appeal and grant us better support.
I am moving forward with job search efforts. Though it's tough with four kiddos on vacation, no money for childcare and house guests arriving shortly.
The children are learning to help more and more with the chores and I am proud of them for that. They may well come out of this having learned some useful life lessons, even if this isn't what I would have chosen for us.
As long as I have hope I feel I can get through this. Your support really helps. Thank you for that.
You are all pretty on target I believe. This lawyer went ahead against my better judgement and pressed the American court to take the case, hoping it would provide adequate support and knowing the court might not.
The support is inadequate and puts us in an untenable situation and she doesn't seem eager to do more. Her viewpoint is entirely unhelpful to me.
I am seeking another opinion before taking further action. My lawyer here is still hoping the court in these parts will go ahead with the appeal and grant us better support.
I am moving forward with job search efforts. Though it's tough with four kiddos on vacation, no money for childcare and house guests arriving shortly.
The children are learning to help more and more with the chores and I am proud of them for that. They may well come out of this having learned some useful life lessons, even if this isn't what I would have chosen for us.
As long as I have hope I feel I can get through this. Your support really helps. Thank you for that.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,038
So, the news on the legal and financial fronts is so awful I just moved on to living my life anyway. An aunt gave us a little money, then my cousin.
None of the child support has come through yet so we are literally living day by day. Sometimes the fridge is ridiculously bare, and when there is food my four growing children devour it.
AH knows we have had nothing for food. He wrote that my informing him of our situation makes it difficult for him to work.
Then he went on FB and posted a photo of his tomatoes.
The stress is crazy. If I work out hard I am managing to sleep well at least. I ran a famiusly hard mountain race a few weeks ago, and came in 6th last weekend for my category in my third triathlon. Today was weight training day.
A friend at my gym might have found me a teaching job.
My kiddoes started school 2 days ago. They are doing really well in spite of it all.
Now I have to get the youngest in care at lunch time so I can devote myself to job search.
In the meantime, AH went to immigration here on my birthday and updated them on our situation without telling me. They are threatening to remove our right to live here if I don't get a good job in the next few weeks.
I am surrounded by beauty, friends, and my lovely children. I am HAPPY because AH is far away and because I love my life.
I just have to pray and trust in God that the job I need will emerge before it is too late. And pray for the strength to get up, dress nicely and interview well no matter what.
I welcome your ideas and support. Thank you!!!
None of the child support has come through yet so we are literally living day by day. Sometimes the fridge is ridiculously bare, and when there is food my four growing children devour it.
AH knows we have had nothing for food. He wrote that my informing him of our situation makes it difficult for him to work.
Then he went on FB and posted a photo of his tomatoes.
The stress is crazy. If I work out hard I am managing to sleep well at least. I ran a famiusly hard mountain race a few weeks ago, and came in 6th last weekend for my category in my third triathlon. Today was weight training day.
A friend at my gym might have found me a teaching job.
My kiddoes started school 2 days ago. They are doing really well in spite of it all.
Now I have to get the youngest in care at lunch time so I can devote myself to job search.
In the meantime, AH went to immigration here on my birthday and updated them on our situation without telling me. They are threatening to remove our right to live here if I don't get a good job in the next few weeks.
I am surrounded by beauty, friends, and my lovely children. I am HAPPY because AH is far away and because I love my life.
I just have to pray and trust in God that the job I need will emerge before it is too late. And pray for the strength to get up, dress nicely and interview well no matter what.
I welcome your ideas and support. Thank you!!!
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