i apologize for coming off like the jerk, but psychology is here to stay it seems...
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,360
iwh I wonder how old you where when you started using. Just an observation between me and my brother. We suffered abuse and all kinds of insanity. My brother started using at 16 and I didn't start my alcoholic road until my 30's. It took me until about 30 to come to peace with the abuse. I had to resolve it somehow or let it rule my life. I finally just came to the decision that my are not bad people and that was really the best they could do. If I could make them feel what they did to me they would probably be sorry. I wouldn't want to live like them anyway. My brother however seems stuck in the past. He always brings up things I have long forgotten. I am not trying to suggest that you shouldn't have feelings about the abuse, but it seems that maybe by starting at a young age people halt some process that naturally comes with age. I am not saying that's your situation just the difference between my brother and I. Keep working on your sobriety and you will find some peace.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by Diva76 
And, there are just as many alcoholics that come from perfectly "normal" families too.....
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
"not all alcoholics are the same" (iwh)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The names, faces, social status, financial status, educational level, religious preference, gender, may differ, but with certainty, I can say, addiction is addiction. It does not discriminate.
All the psychology, all the books in libraries, all the AA meetings, rehab, or any other form of recovery will not help, until you simply accept who you are.
Who are you ? Right now, today?
I did not walk in your shoes.
I do not know what you have endured in your life.
Abuse is abuse, and any form of abuse is unacceptable , and if you have suffered, my heart felt empathy to you.
Sometimes Bad things happen in life, to good people, I just don't understand.........
I do not have the answer, nor would I even attempt/pretend to know what you have lived.
And please know, I am not dismissing your hardships.
But you do have an amazing opportunity, you get to go forward..
Of course it will take work and effort on your part, but I believe good things can come out of your painful situation.
Perhaps, your voice is needed, for those who cannot speak for themselves, at this time.
Be strong, be brave, and know you are not alone.
You get to choose...........
You get to decide, if you will allow your past to define you. I simply refuse to allow my past to rule my today, or my future. I am worthy of more, and you certainly are too, my friend.
We will be here for you.
((((hugs))))
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The names, faces, social status, financial status, educational level, religious preference, gender, may differ, but with certainty, I can say, addiction is addiction. It does not discriminate.
All the psychology, all the books in libraries, all the AA meetings, rehab, or any other form of recovery will not help, until you simply accept who you are.
Who are you ? Right now, today?
I did not walk in your shoes.
I do not know what you have endured in your life.
Abuse is abuse, and any form of abuse is unacceptable , and if you have suffered, my heart felt empathy to you.
Sometimes Bad things happen in life, to good people, I just don't understand.........
I do not have the answer, nor would I even attempt/pretend to know what you have lived.
And please know, I am not dismissing your hardships.
But you do have an amazing opportunity, you get to go forward..
Of course it will take work and effort on your part, but I believe good things can come out of your painful situation.
Perhaps, your voice is needed, for those who cannot speak for themselves, at this time.
Be strong, be brave, and know you are not alone.
You get to choose...........
You get to decide, if you will allow your past to define you. I simply refuse to allow my past to rule my today, or my future. I am worthy of more, and you certainly are too, my friend.
We will be here for you.
((((hugs))))
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by silentrun
iwh I wonder how old you where when you started using. Just an observation between me and my brother. We suffered abuse and all kinds of insanity. My brother started using at 16 and I didn't start my alcoholic road until my 30's. It took me until about 30 to come to peace with the abuse. I had to resolve it somehow or let it rule my life. I finally just came to the decision that my are not bad people and that was really the best they could do. If I could make them feel what they did to me they would probably be sorry. I wouldn't want to live like them anyway. My brother however seems stuck in the past. He always brings up things I have long forgotten. I am not trying to suggest that you shouldn't have feelings about the abuse, but it seems that maybe by starting at a young age people halt some process that naturally comes with age. I am not saying that's your situation just the difference between my brother and I. Keep working on your sobriety and you will find some peace.
again, just theoretics here. alcoholics live much different lives than normal people.
i'm not looking to live in the past. i'm making changes in my life & finding family resistance to that. it's a situation where i'm changing & it'd be great if they were too.
we can not prevent changing, it is inevitable, but some work at maintaining the same, some work at doing things different, we change nonetheless.
i'm getting tired today & not sure how much good i am doing answering many more questions for the day.
some one actually asked, again, if i'm drinking recently in this thread. no, i'm not, but i'm getting tired for the day. excuse my energy from before, i went out of my way to respond, but now i don't feel we're working on this.
i appreciate the earlier comments and feel they were adequate to respond to my post and i suppose i did need the attention and community support at the time.
i will refer back to this, but i am tired now.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 119
Originally Posted by LexieCat
My family is straight out of "Leave it to Beaver." Honest. Boringly ordinary. Cub scouts, girl scouts, stay-at-home mom, dad with a regular job, dog, house in the suburbs.
thanks
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 119
that was a very good & helpful post marie, but i find there is some truth to the premise that all though when we struggle with the addiction we are much a like, there is some difference in the forms of alcoholism, i have noticed.
i simply do not have the energy to go into that today, it's just be an observation. i'm not sure how helpful it is to notice anyway.
thank you,
i simply do not have the energy to go into that today, it's just be an observation. i'm not sure how helpful it is to notice anyway.
thank you,
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
Difference in the form of alcoholism ? I am not quite clear/understanding what you mean here. Alcoholism is progressive, are you referring to the stages of this disease ?
Just trying to comprehend here, would like to hear more if you choose to share. ( After you get some rest)
Just trying to comprehend here, would like to hear more if you choose to share. ( After you get some rest)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 119
yeah, good idea, maybe after i get some rest.
i do think if you study the nuances of it, you can find differences, but that is petty.
if anything, the problem is too big & important to get petty about and it was unimportant and unhelpful for me to make such a distinction.
if we care to discuss the nuances of difference in addiction & alcoholism, i suppose that could be a new thread at leisure.
i do think if you study the nuances of it, you can find differences, but that is petty.
if anything, the problem is too big & important to get petty about and it was unimportant and unhelpful for me to make such a distinction.
if we care to discuss the nuances of difference in addiction & alcoholism, i suppose that could be a new thread at leisure.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
I read something during my recovery (not an addiction):
We are not responsible for who we've become, but as adults we are responsible for everything we say and do.
I had a really messed up life, and my disorder meant that I didn't deal with things or people in a healthy way. I was often emotionally abusive. However, when I was diagnosed, I made a choice to recover and re-learn healthy behaviors and responses. I know it's not the same as alcoholism, but I felt very strongly about that statement and how it applies to everyone. The moment you become culpable is when you realize you're doing the wrong thing and yet make no effort to change.
Just my two cents
We are not responsible for who we've become, but as adults we are responsible for everything we say and do.
I had a really messed up life, and my disorder meant that I didn't deal with things or people in a healthy way. I was often emotionally abusive. However, when I was diagnosed, I made a choice to recover and re-learn healthy behaviors and responses. I know it's not the same as alcoholism, but I felt very strongly about that statement and how it applies to everyone. The moment you become culpable is when you realize you're doing the wrong thing and yet make no effort to change.
Just my two cents
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
iwh,
Please help me here. I don't understand what is going on. People are responding to you because they care about you and they are trying to help.
In a way I also think they are trying to tell you about their childhood, so that perhaps you can somewhat relate or perhaps feels more comfortable here.
We don't know anything about you here. I can understand that you might not feel comfortable opening up to strangers, but in a way, I do see you as pushing people away.
I can sort of feel some anger issues here. Sorry, if I am seeing things that may not actually be there, but it is what I am feeling.
I have a little story to tell you about myself.
I was in a very abusive marriage. I drank to self-medicate myself. of course, I'm an alcoholic also, but wasn't thinking of that then. I was in denial about that.
So this one night, my H didn't come home after work. Nothing unusual at all. He was disappearing all the time, sometimes just for the night, sometimes for weeks. I dealt with it by drinking so that I could go to sleep. That night I drank a bottle of wine (please note, I do not drink wine, but it was the only alcohol in the house), and took some OTC sleeping pills. My H did eventually show up, about 11pm. I was really tired and sleepy by then, and I couldn't believe it, but he called 911 on me. (Note also, my H, now ex is an alcoholic).
I was pissed at first, but that was one of the best things that could have happened to me. They admitted me to the hospital for attempted suicide. In order for me to get out of the hospital I had to agree to a 6 week intensive outpatient program.
So, I start to go to this. Now, I knew I had situational depression, and PTSD, but they put me with a bunch of people who had clinical depression, postpartum depression, bipolar, schizophrenia. All different kind of people, all different diagnosis. Now I was getting really upset here. I didn't think I fit in there, I didn't even attempt suicide. I just self medicated and just wanted to go to sleep that night. So what was this hospital doing to me?????? Were they crazy????? I wasn't like these other people !!!!!!!! (lol)
Moral of this story: I went to this for 6 weeks, I found out very quickly that people might have different labels, and all that other sh!t, but when it really came down to things, my problems were the same as theirs. We were no different at all. I will always keep this close to my heart, because before this, I always thought there was a difference. Peoples problems are very much the same. Its a feeling of being hurt, being rejected, being abandoned, feeling isolated, alone, feelings of not being good enough, feelings of anger. I can go on and on about different kinds of feelings, but I think to sum it up, will use, feelings of not being accepted as I am.
So, I cannot debate the nuances of things being different. Of people growing up different, of alcoholism versus abuse, or any of that. All I can say is that I felt inadequate.
Also wanted to share with you, my father was an alcoholic, and he was abusive. My mother is a codependent. I am an alcoholic. I was married to an alcoholic. I worry that my children (now adults) may be alcoholics.
I know that you previously said that your parents are not alcoholics, but I would say that it is the same mindset. I would say that whether abusive or alcoholic that you don't have a sense of self worth, you don't feel adequate, so you either get by with this by being a people pleaser, or becoming abusive, totally isolate yourself, or maybe a host of other things. But it does come out, it does show.
There is not one of us that is perfect.
Which brings me to something else. (Sorry that I am babbling on and on in your thread). I am or was a perfectionist. I was always told how stupid I was, (have an IQ of 140, never went to college because I felt stupid) how fat I am ( I weighed 115 then). When I was married I had a list of 135 things wrong with me, that my husband told me all the time. So I kept trying and trying to change myself to be the person that the other person wanted.
It wasn't until I left my H that this all stopped. I moved in with friends and they have a son who has autism. He is a perfectionist, because of his autism. See, now, I no longer had to be the perfectionist. I enjoyed making mistakes with him, and showing him that that was OK. That you can always fix a mistake. Just do the best you can, and that is good enough.
Sorry to babble on and on.
People here care about you, that is why you got so many replies. Please don't push it away. All problems are the same, just maybe different circumstances.
Also, It is was it is......but, it will become what you make it.
Please help me here. I don't understand what is going on. People are responding to you because they care about you and they are trying to help.
In a way I also think they are trying to tell you about their childhood, so that perhaps you can somewhat relate or perhaps feels more comfortable here.
We don't know anything about you here. I can understand that you might not feel comfortable opening up to strangers, but in a way, I do see you as pushing people away.
I can sort of feel some anger issues here. Sorry, if I am seeing things that may not actually be there, but it is what I am feeling.
I have a little story to tell you about myself.
I was in a very abusive marriage. I drank to self-medicate myself. of course, I'm an alcoholic also, but wasn't thinking of that then. I was in denial about that.
So this one night, my H didn't come home after work. Nothing unusual at all. He was disappearing all the time, sometimes just for the night, sometimes for weeks. I dealt with it by drinking so that I could go to sleep. That night I drank a bottle of wine (please note, I do not drink wine, but it was the only alcohol in the house), and took some OTC sleeping pills. My H did eventually show up, about 11pm. I was really tired and sleepy by then, and I couldn't believe it, but he called 911 on me. (Note also, my H, now ex is an alcoholic).
I was pissed at first, but that was one of the best things that could have happened to me. They admitted me to the hospital for attempted suicide. In order for me to get out of the hospital I had to agree to a 6 week intensive outpatient program.
So, I start to go to this. Now, I knew I had situational depression, and PTSD, but they put me with a bunch of people who had clinical depression, postpartum depression, bipolar, schizophrenia. All different kind of people, all different diagnosis. Now I was getting really upset here. I didn't think I fit in there, I didn't even attempt suicide. I just self medicated and just wanted to go to sleep that night. So what was this hospital doing to me?????? Were they crazy????? I wasn't like these other people !!!!!!!! (lol)
Moral of this story: I went to this for 6 weeks, I found out very quickly that people might have different labels, and all that other sh!t, but when it really came down to things, my problems were the same as theirs. We were no different at all. I will always keep this close to my heart, because before this, I always thought there was a difference. Peoples problems are very much the same. Its a feeling of being hurt, being rejected, being abandoned, feeling isolated, alone, feelings of not being good enough, feelings of anger. I can go on and on about different kinds of feelings, but I think to sum it up, will use, feelings of not being accepted as I am.
So, I cannot debate the nuances of things being different. Of people growing up different, of alcoholism versus abuse, or any of that. All I can say is that I felt inadequate.
Also wanted to share with you, my father was an alcoholic, and he was abusive. My mother is a codependent. I am an alcoholic. I was married to an alcoholic. I worry that my children (now adults) may be alcoholics.
I know that you previously said that your parents are not alcoholics, but I would say that it is the same mindset. I would say that whether abusive or alcoholic that you don't have a sense of self worth, you don't feel adequate, so you either get by with this by being a people pleaser, or becoming abusive, totally isolate yourself, or maybe a host of other things. But it does come out, it does show.
There is not one of us that is perfect.
Which brings me to something else. (Sorry that I am babbling on and on in your thread). I am or was a perfectionist. I was always told how stupid I was, (have an IQ of 140, never went to college because I felt stupid) how fat I am ( I weighed 115 then). When I was married I had a list of 135 things wrong with me, that my husband told me all the time. So I kept trying and trying to change myself to be the person that the other person wanted.
It wasn't until I left my H that this all stopped. I moved in with friends and they have a son who has autism. He is a perfectionist, because of his autism. See, now, I no longer had to be the perfectionist. I enjoyed making mistakes with him, and showing him that that was OK. That you can always fix a mistake. Just do the best you can, and that is good enough.
Sorry to babble on and on.
People here care about you, that is why you got so many replies. Please don't push it away. All problems are the same, just maybe different circumstances.
Also, It is was it is......but, it will become what you make it.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by iwh
yes, so the theme of this thread is not your territory. be grateful. i would love to have a nice family someday.
thanks
thanks
According to you, no one in your family drinks or uses drugs. Fine, they have other "dysfunctions." I understand. Many families do. HOWEVER, I don't see that you have any issues in terms of addiction other than your own.
As a fellow alcoholic, what *I* am hearing is someone more focused on blaming other people for his or her addiction than on taking personal responsibility for his or her recovery. Your posts are argumentative and self-pitying. I would respectfully suggest that cultivation of the attitude you are displaying will do a fine job of keeping you locked into your addiction.
I actually think AA, if you took it seriously, would do you a lot of good. Not my job to push it on anyone who doesn't want it. But I do know that your attitude is not helping you. And I don't think it's helping anyone here, either, to be honest.
The feedback that you would find most helpful is over on the Alcoholism side of the forum. Not sure what you are looking for from US.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,754
It's the disease of alcoholism, that is where the behavior and traits arise.
People who grow up in dysfunction , share alot of the same issues in adulthood.
Dysfuction is at the root of societies ills.
People who are sexually used in childhood share some of the same traits that those of us who grow up in alcoholics families have.
I was never sexually abused, I grew up in alcoholism, I had several therapists ask me if I had been sexually abused, why??? because I shared issues with their clients that were sexually abused.
Most dysfunctions , at their core, are thick with denial, blame shifting, gaslighting, violence, abuse , emotional immarturity. etc etc etc.
By the same token, you don't have to grow up around addiction to become an alcoholic or a drug addict, or a food addict. Addiction is a coping mechanism for many in the early days, a way of dealing with dysfunction.
Just my opinion.
People who grow up in dysfunction , share alot of the same issues in adulthood.
Dysfuction is at the root of societies ills.
People who are sexually used in childhood share some of the same traits that those of us who grow up in alcoholics families have.
I was never sexually abused, I grew up in alcoholism, I had several therapists ask me if I had been sexually abused, why??? because I shared issues with their clients that were sexually abused.
Most dysfunctions , at their core, are thick with denial, blame shifting, gaslighting, violence, abuse , emotional immarturity. etc etc etc.
By the same token, you don't have to grow up around addiction to become an alcoholic or a drug addict, or a food addict. Addiction is a coping mechanism for many in the early days, a way of dealing with dysfunction.
Just my opinion.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by iwh
FireSprite, I know that is a very complicated thing I said. It is likely impossible for some of us to understand and that is a good thing.
I did not have to reach that far.
I am a philosopher, sorry, lol.
I did not have to reach that far.
I am a philosopher, sorry, lol.
Because you are unique.
Terminally unique.
You were/are posting here while you were drunk.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 119
i apologize if i offended anyone. i was having a rough day and needed to talk to someone.
i thank you for your replies, though i am not sure when i can get to replying to all of them.
i need to put the focus on taking care of myself & my responsibilities right now because i wasn't doing enough of that yesterday.
i am an alcoholic and still a new comer to recovery. i know when i start letting my self care slide things get bad & i become overwhelmed. so i need to take better care of myself right now. thank you for supporting that.
again, i apologize if i offended anyone.
i thank you for your replies, though i am not sure when i can get to replying to all of them.
i need to put the focus on taking care of myself & my responsibilities right now because i wasn't doing enough of that yesterday.
i am an alcoholic and still a new comer to recovery. i know when i start letting my self care slide things get bad & i become overwhelmed. so i need to take better care of myself right now. thank you for supporting that.
again, i apologize if i offended anyone.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
If you want to just drop everything, that's fine, but I don't think that is what you want. I think you are trying to handle too much at the same time. Feelings of being overwhelmed. Maybe you just need some time to let things settle in you.
Please don't try to overwhelm yourself. Do one thing at a time. Once you are comfortable with one thing, then go to the next. etc...
Please don't try to overwhelm yourself. Do one thing at a time. Once you are comfortable with one thing, then go to the next. etc...
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by iwh
i apologize if i offended anyone. i was having a rough day and needed to talk to someone.
i thank you for your replies, though i am not sure when i can get to replying to all of them.
i need to put the focus on taking care of myself & my responsibilities right now because i wasn't doing enough of that yesterday.
i am an alcoholic and still a new comer to recovery. i know when i start letting my self care slide things get bad & i become overwhelmed. so i need to take better care of myself right now. thank you for supporting that.
again, i apologize if i offended anyone.
i thank you for your replies, though i am not sure when i can get to replying to all of them.
i need to put the focus on taking care of myself & my responsibilities right now because i wasn't doing enough of that yesterday.
i am an alcoholic and still a new comer to recovery. i know when i start letting my self care slide things get bad & i become overwhelmed. so i need to take better care of myself right now. thank you for supporting that.
again, i apologize if i offended anyone.
ALL Things Work Together For Good. For those who love Good.
May God/HP Bless you as you trudge the road of happy destiny.
Do good, and help others.
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