Codependent Question
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Codependent Question
Just wondering why for so many of us it is easier for us to suffer in a bad situation than to consider hurting your partner? I've been thinking about this and for me it's that I have a fear of anger and confrontation brought up by living in a crazy home. I have such a high tolerance for bad behavior and I worry more about someone else's feelings than my own and I have trouble verbalizing my needs to an angry person.
Anyone else experiencing this too? Yes, I'm still leaving but just thinking about what caused me to stay in an intolerable environment for so long and why I'm still worried about my AH's reaction and feelings to things.
Anyone else experiencing this too? Yes, I'm still leaving but just thinking about what caused me to stay in an intolerable environment for so long and why I'm still worried about my AH's reaction and feelings to things.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
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I can only speak from my experience as an adult child of an alcoholic. When I was growing up, there was an unspoken rule about Not Making Mom Angry. Something just terrible would happen if we Made Mom Angry. So at a very young age, I learned to put my own needs aside in order to help keep the peace in the house. I learned that the only person's feelings that mattered were hers. It didn't matter that we had all set ourselves up for failure. If she was going to get angry, or drink, or yell, or threaten to leave, she was going to do just that, no matter how 'perfect' any of us tried to be. And because we were failed so much, we all learned to believe we were failures.
Then I took these survival mechanisms that I learned when I was completely dependent on parents for all my needs and I brought them into my adult relationships. Just make the other person happy, don't worry about whether or not YOU are happy, you aren't really good enough to deserve anyone's love anyway, so just be grateful anyone wants to be with you at all. All that jolly stuff.
I lived in denial of this dynamic for about thirty-two years before my first marriage spectacularly imploded (not because ofalcoholic but because I had to sabotage the relationship in order to confirm my beliefs that no one could ever truly love me). Then I got into therapy and started the long, bumpy road towards forgiving myself for not being enough to fix my mother's unhappiness, towards understanding that it actually had nothing to do with me, and finally, towards loving and caring for myself enough to make better choices in relationships.
I am glad you are getting out of your situation!
Then I took these survival mechanisms that I learned when I was completely dependent on parents for all my needs and I brought them into my adult relationships. Just make the other person happy, don't worry about whether or not YOU are happy, you aren't really good enough to deserve anyone's love anyway, so just be grateful anyone wants to be with you at all. All that jolly stuff.
I lived in denial of this dynamic for about thirty-two years before my first marriage spectacularly imploded (not because ofalcoholic but because I had to sabotage the relationship in order to confirm my beliefs that no one could ever truly love me). Then I got into therapy and started the long, bumpy road towards forgiving myself for not being enough to fix my mother's unhappiness, towards understanding that it actually had nothing to do with me, and finally, towards loving and caring for myself enough to make better choices in relationships.
I am glad you are getting out of your situation!
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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SparkleKitty, thanks so much. You just shown a mirror into my life as well. I'm so glad you found the strength to change your life and thank you for explaining. That's me in that I'm always more concerned about making my AH happy even though I've been living in misery. I never want to "rock the boat" and cause him pain/anger and I suppose it's because the child in me is still expecting something terrible to happen. Thank you.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 70
Ohh sunshine girl, I hear you.
Why do I tolerate unacceptable behaviour when I shouldn't? And why does my A pull me up on every little thing I do wrong, reprimand me, make me feel guilty and then I feel like I'm a horrible person?
Who knows. The "I'm a codependent" response is a scapegoat because it doesn't get to the heart of WHY I do what I do.
For me - I was always told by my lovely mother how important peace and harmony are in the home - and that it's worth refusing to participate in an argument just to keep the peace.
Over time I've learnt that she did mean well. And that her advice was probably pretty solid for a normal family situation. However, once you throw alcoholism in, it leads to unhealthy behaviours like walking on eggshells, bending over backwards to accommodate an A's crazy needs, and making my moods and emotions based on his - so if he's happy and content, so am I.
So...while I don't have the answers as to why I'm a codependent, at least I know what it is, how it manifests itself in me and what I need to be doing to stop it. Easier said than done, but I am growing each day.
One thing I learnt on SR was from LaTeDa - that unacceptable behaviour is unacceptable. That's one of the most enlightening things I've heard in a while, because I used to think that I was bigger and better by 'copping it on the chin'. Now I know that to be the bigger and better person is to have the tough conversation, explain to someone that they're hurting me and how their behaviour affects me. Having the ability to do that shows personal growth. And while I haven't mastered it yet, it's progress, not perfection.
Wishing you the best of luck
Why do I tolerate unacceptable behaviour when I shouldn't? And why does my A pull me up on every little thing I do wrong, reprimand me, make me feel guilty and then I feel like I'm a horrible person?
Who knows. The "I'm a codependent" response is a scapegoat because it doesn't get to the heart of WHY I do what I do.
For me - I was always told by my lovely mother how important peace and harmony are in the home - and that it's worth refusing to participate in an argument just to keep the peace.
Over time I've learnt that she did mean well. And that her advice was probably pretty solid for a normal family situation. However, once you throw alcoholism in, it leads to unhealthy behaviours like walking on eggshells, bending over backwards to accommodate an A's crazy needs, and making my moods and emotions based on his - so if he's happy and content, so am I.
So...while I don't have the answers as to why I'm a codependent, at least I know what it is, how it manifests itself in me and what I need to be doing to stop it. Easier said than done, but I am growing each day.
One thing I learnt on SR was from LaTeDa - that unacceptable behaviour is unacceptable. That's one of the most enlightening things I've heard in a while, because I used to think that I was bigger and better by 'copping it on the chin'. Now I know that to be the bigger and better person is to have the tough conversation, explain to someone that they're hurting me and how their behaviour affects me. Having the ability to do that shows personal growth. And while I haven't mastered it yet, it's progress, not perfection.
Wishing you the best of luck
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Thank you Kasie. You are very brave. Just want to say once again reading your responses makes me feel connected to people who understand and I don't feel so alone so thank you again for sharing. We are all on a very personal journey but I'm so glad we can share what we've learned.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 70
Aww thanks sunshine girl!
The strength, insight, courage and confidence I've gained over the past few months is pretty amazing, but it hasn't come without hard work and being truly prepared to look at myself and emerge from a bubble of denial.
It's only through AlAnon and coming and posting here that I've been able to make it though - with the help of my amazing friends here and at AlAnon who have patiently listened, empathised and comforted me when I've had no where else to turn. Their experience, strength and cope has provided me with the clarity, confidence and skills I need to face each day and keep going as best as I can. So to everyone here at SR (including you, sunshinegirl!) my heart goes out to you all with much love, gratitude and thankfulness.
I used to think that I was a 'victim' because I'd been affected by someone else's drinking, but not anymore. If anything, going to AlAnon, learning how to have difficult conversations, express my needs and show love an compassion at the same time are the most wonderful skills to have, and I wouldn't have developed them without needing to come to SR and AlAnon. So I'm not a victim, I'm blessed. It's my silver lining to a cloud of alcoholism.
The strength, insight, courage and confidence I've gained over the past few months is pretty amazing, but it hasn't come without hard work and being truly prepared to look at myself and emerge from a bubble of denial.
It's only through AlAnon and coming and posting here that I've been able to make it though - with the help of my amazing friends here and at AlAnon who have patiently listened, empathised and comforted me when I've had no where else to turn. Their experience, strength and cope has provided me with the clarity, confidence and skills I need to face each day and keep going as best as I can. So to everyone here at SR (including you, sunshinegirl!) my heart goes out to you all with much love, gratitude and thankfulness.
I used to think that I was a 'victim' because I'd been affected by someone else's drinking, but not anymore. If anything, going to AlAnon, learning how to have difficult conversations, express my needs and show love an compassion at the same time are the most wonderful skills to have, and I wouldn't have developed them without needing to come to SR and AlAnon. So I'm not a victim, I'm blessed. It's my silver lining to a cloud of alcoholism.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I know my natural instinct is to put other people's emotional needs ahead of my own, though nothing awful happened when I was a kid. I think sometimes it's an excess of empathy at work. Empathy can be a good thing--people who lack it can be like steamrollers--but like anything else, it's possible to have too much of a good thing.
Ultimately, I had to learn that it wasn't my JOB to make everyone feel good all the time. That life in general dictates that sometimes people will experience pain and other negative emotions. What I CAN do is to not hurt people unnecessarily, to be aware that sometimes my actions will cause pain to others, and to do my best to be sure I am doing my best to behave in a fair and reasonable way.
If I do those things, then it is up to other people to process their own emotions, just as it's my job to process mine. People have a right to feel what they feel, just as I do. Even if I don't understand their feelings ("How can he/she be mad over something like THAT?"), the fact is that they feel what they feel. Their job, not mine, to deal with it.
Not an easy thing to learn, but I am getting better at it.
Ultimately, I had to learn that it wasn't my JOB to make everyone feel good all the time. That life in general dictates that sometimes people will experience pain and other negative emotions. What I CAN do is to not hurt people unnecessarily, to be aware that sometimes my actions will cause pain to others, and to do my best to be sure I am doing my best to behave in a fair and reasonable way.
If I do those things, then it is up to other people to process their own emotions, just as it's my job to process mine. People have a right to feel what they feel, just as I do. Even if I don't understand their feelings ("How can he/she be mad over something like THAT?"), the fact is that they feel what they feel. Their job, not mine, to deal with it.
Not an easy thing to learn, but I am getting better at it.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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For me it,s because I don,t value my feelings and wants.
Originally Posted by sunnshinegirl 
Just wondering why for so many of us it is easier for us to suffer in a bad situation than to consider hurting your partner? I've been thinking about this and for me it's that I have a fear of anger and confrontation brought up by living in a crazy home. I have such a high tolerance for bad behavior and I worry more about someone else's feelings than my own and I have trouble verbalizing my needs to an angry person.
Anyone else experiencing this too? Yes, I'm still leaving but just thinking about what caused me to stay in an intolerable environment for so long and why I'm still worried about my AH's reaction and feelings to things.
Anyone else experiencing this too? Yes, I'm still leaving but just thinking about what caused me to stay in an intolerable environment for so long and why I'm still worried about my AH's reaction and feelings to things.
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 12
"unacceptable behaviour is unacceptable."
Yes!! Yes it is!! Wow! There is so much on here that is so enlightening. The people I am finding with the same situations and the same fights that I have within myself is so comforting. It is making all of these decisions I am making ______________________. What?!? Sometimes I have a hard time putting in that word to describe what it is. Easy I guess. I don't know. But I feel so empowered for once in my life! I am taking over! I should change my name to Tabitha. lol!
Yes!! Yes it is!! Wow! There is so much on here that is so enlightening. The people I am finding with the same situations and the same fights that I have within myself is so comforting. It is making all of these decisions I am making ______________________. What?!? Sometimes I have a hard time putting in that word to describe what it is. Easy I guess. I don't know. But I feel so empowered for once in my life! I am taking over! I should change my name to Tabitha. lol!
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
One week, a few months ago, after reading post after post of people basically saying the same thing being said in this thread, I posted this below:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ple-cruel.html
Since then I've thought a lot about this very thing. I think its based on a strong desire to be liked by others.
One of the best lessons I've learned so far is to not care if I am liked or not by others. At the end of the day, what matters is that I like me.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ple-cruel.html
Since then I've thought a lot about this very thing. I think its based on a strong desire to be liked by others.
One of the best lessons I've learned so far is to not care if I am liked or not by others. At the end of the day, what matters is that I like me.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,118
Oh, gosh, I feel that way constantly!!!
It's one of the main reasons I've been stuck and if I'm going dime store psych about it, my mother kicked my dad out when I was 12 and I was SURE he'd straighten out and come home and instead he dropped dead in the Bowery when I was 18, so in my mind, I feel that if I let him go he'll die.
I can't remember where I just read it, but it was in a book about dealing with people who are addicted and what to do about it, and the quote was "If you're choosing between guilt and resentment, choose guilt every time."
I'm trying to choose more guilt to be quite honest. That would be the first step. Then I can work on releasing the guilt while I'm out living my life. But living with resentment is just as bad for our systems as the vodka is for theirs.
It's one of the main reasons I've been stuck and if I'm going dime store psych about it, my mother kicked my dad out when I was 12 and I was SURE he'd straighten out and come home and instead he dropped dead in the Bowery when I was 18, so in my mind, I feel that if I let him go he'll die.
I can't remember where I just read it, but it was in a book about dealing with people who are addicted and what to do about it, and the quote was "If you're choosing between guilt and resentment, choose guilt every time."
I'm trying to choose more guilt to be quite honest. That would be the first step. Then I can work on releasing the guilt while I'm out living my life. But living with resentment is just as bad for our systems as the vodka is for theirs.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Dear Solo---helpful hint: To reduce resentment, you must first reduce expectations!! It is not what actually happens---disappointment comes from what you expected to happen, but didn't. Lowered expectations=less disappointment.Just saying.......
dandylion
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Dear Solo---helpful hint: To reduce resentment, you must first reduce expectations!! It is not what actually happens---disappointment comes from what you expected to happen, but didn't. Lowered expectations=less disappointment.Just saying.......
dandylion
Now I just feel... wow. I have to just stop writing and think about that. Thanks! I'll get back to you on that
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OH, solo---I think I understand what you are trying to say. Of course, it can be said, in general, we codies have a basic resistance to let go and let God---because that REALLY means to let go of control that we have held on to so tightly. We feel that control is the only way that we can get or preserve what we want in life (learned thru childhood experiences). We are as tenacious as barnacles.
In early recovery we are instructed to lower our expectations of the alcoholic who is relearning how to navigate basic life. O.K. good idea. Early recovery is a time for US to decide what we want for our life, also. BUT, do we want to live within those lowered expectations for the REST OF OUR LIFE????? I think each person has to decide where the line in the sand is---how low will we go?
Also, I would say that tolerating life is not the same as thriving in life.
I am just throwing these thought out there in case they will help you with this.....
dandylion
In early recovery we are instructed to lower our expectations of the alcoholic who is relearning how to navigate basic life. O.K. good idea. Early recovery is a time for US to decide what we want for our life, also. BUT, do we want to live within those lowered expectations for the REST OF OUR LIFE????? I think each person has to decide where the line in the sand is---how low will we go?
Also, I would say that tolerating life is not the same as thriving in life.
I am just throwing these thought out there in case they will help you with this.....
dandylion
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rochester, ny
Posts: 405
Originally Posted by kasie
Now I know that to be the bigger and better person is to have the tough conversation, explain to someone that they're hurting me and how their behaviour affects me. Having the ability to do that shows personal growth. And while I haven't mastered it yet, it's progress, not perfection.
Well, having the tough conversation may be a start for us, but it does not do any good for anyone if we haven't gotten to the point where we mean it.
When WE mean it, we don't necessarily even HAVE to have the tough conversation--if we've seen time and again that heartfelt discussions and words and promises mean nothing to an A, then it doesn't matter if we have the tough conversation and tell THEM they're hurting us.
More important: Tell YOURSELF they're hurting you, and BELIEVE yourself. Then decide what you need to do about it and DO that.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
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Originally Posted by Argnotthisagain
Well, having the tough conversation may be a start for us, but it does not do any good for anyone if we haven't gotten to the point where we mean it.
When WE mean it, we don't necessarily even HAVE to have the tough conversation--if we've seen time and again that heartfelt discussions and words and promises mean nothing to an A, then it doesn't matter if we have the tough conversation and tell THEM they're hurting us.
More important: Tell YOURSELF they're hurting you, and BELIEVE yourself. Then decide what you need to do about it and DO that.
When WE mean it, we don't necessarily even HAVE to have the tough conversation--if we've seen time and again that heartfelt discussions and words and promises mean nothing to an A, then it doesn't matter if we have the tough conversation and tell THEM they're hurting us.
More important: Tell YOURSELF they're hurting you, and BELIEVE yourself. Then decide what you need to do about it and DO that.
What matters is what WE are willing to do for OURSELVES to live a better life.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
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Yes, I'm still leaving but just thinking about what caused me to stay in an intolerable environment for so long and why I'm still worried about my AH's reaction and feelings to things.
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Mine was driven by many factors, but I had a number of things out of joint.
1. I thought self-care was selfish
2. I am a control freak. Not the obvious variety, but the kind that wanted to make it all better for everyone else in hopes that I could calm the anxiety I had inside. I did not have trauma in my childhood, but I did have a lot of codependance...if it was direct at everyone else I did not have to FEEL my own stuff.
Living with an alcoholic gave me lots of ways to deflect from myself.
1. I thought self-care was selfish
2. I am a control freak. Not the obvious variety, but the kind that wanted to make it all better for everyone else in hopes that I could calm the anxiety I had inside. I did not have trauma in my childhood, but I did have a lot of codependance...if it was direct at everyone else I did not have to FEEL my own stuff.
Living with an alcoholic gave me lots of ways to deflect from myself.
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Originally Posted by LifeRecovery
Mine was driven by many factors, but I had a number of things out of joint.
1. I thought self-care was selfish
2. I am a control freak. Not the obvious variety, but the kind that wanted to make it all better for everyone else in hopes that I could calm the anxiety I had inside. I did not have trauma in my childhood, but I did have a lot of codependance...if it was direct at everyone else I did not have to FEEL my own stuff.
Living with an alcoholic gave me lots of ways to deflect from myself.
1. I thought self-care was selfish
2. I am a control freak. Not the obvious variety, but the kind that wanted to make it all better for everyone else in hopes that I could calm the anxiety I had inside. I did not have trauma in my childhood, but I did have a lot of codependance...if it was direct at everyone else I did not have to FEEL my own stuff.
Living with an alcoholic gave me lots of ways to deflect from myself.
Oh my...this is the right thing for me to read tonight. Been having another bout of growing pains but it must be that something's shifted, beacause I'm getting what you're talking about in a new way right now!
Thanks LR!!!
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 170
There are some situations where you just can't have the tough conversation with the A in your life. I tried many times to say how unhappy I was and to express my needs and all I did was get shot down through things like "that's all emotional bulls-- or "you don't have to feel that way." I could never get a sentence out without being told I was wrong. I had to have the tough conversation with myself by myself and I got my answer. I hope that helps someone who is in a bad situation such as mine. And thanks for all your responses. We all share so much in common.
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