Codependent Question
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That statement sunshine girl could have been written by me. I feel EXACTLY the same way. I too and leaving my ADH and have spent time wondering why I put up with it and neglected my needs and feelings for so long. This forum is so wonderful to have people that truly understand and have been through what we are going through.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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I think I'm having one of those codependent mornings today. He's giving me the silent treatment (although he directs his conversation to our dog) and instead of being glad he's not ranting and raving, I'm trying to figure out how to go in there and "fix" it and make it better. That's always my first response - to fix it. I don't think I do it out of a need to be liked because I know he doesn't like me but I do it because I just can't cope with anyone upset around me. At least now I recognize my feelings and I'm better able to cope with them. I think that's what we learn in our own recovery. Not easy at all and day by day. UnsureoftheFuture, I hear you!!!
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sunshine,
How about just finding something to do--get out of the house, work on a project, do chores, put on some music--so you aren't just sitting there listening to him make a big show of ignoring you? He is TRYING to provoke a reaction from you. Don't take the bait. All that does is reward the behavior--he knows he's gotten under your skin and that he's sent the message he's trying to send.
Just my two cents. It will also get your own mind occupied with something else.
How about just finding something to do--get out of the house, work on a project, do chores, put on some music--so you aren't just sitting there listening to him make a big show of ignoring you? He is TRYING to provoke a reaction from you. Don't take the bait. All that does is reward the behavior--he knows he's gotten under your skin and that he's sent the message he's trying to send.
Just my two cents. It will also get your own mind occupied with something else.
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LexieCat always says it first!
Yes, please do not allow this foolish show to get to you.
Okay, think about it,
He is talking to the DOG! The dog for goodness sake!
The silent treatment means silence.
Or, that is what I used to do, I did not use one of the pets to speak "through"
my silence was complete.
Sadly, I was very very good at it, and it drove my ex crazy.
As a person who used the silent treatment, my suggestion would be to get away from that person.
It is obviously causes you distress and there is nothing you can do about what he does.
Nothing.
You can, however, change what you are doing.
I am sorry you are going thru this, it will get better with more practice.
Get away. Detach. Take care of you.
Beth
Yes, please do not allow this foolish show to get to you.
Okay, think about it,
He is talking to the DOG! The dog for goodness sake!
The silent treatment means silence.
Or, that is what I used to do, I did not use one of the pets to speak "through"
my silence was complete.
Sadly, I was very very good at it, and it drove my ex crazy.
As a person who used the silent treatment, my suggestion would be to get away from that person.
It is obviously causes you distress and there is nothing you can do about what he does.
Nothing.
You can, however, change what you are doing.
I am sorry you are going thru this, it will get better with more practice.
Get away. Detach. Take care of you.
Beth
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Join Date: May 2013
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Originally Posted by sunnshinegirl 
Just wondering why for so many of us it is easier for us to suffer in a bad situation than to consider hurting your partner? I've been thinking about this and for me it's that I have a fear of anger and confrontation brought up by living in a crazy home. I have such a high tolerance for bad behavior and I worry more about someone else's feelings than my own and I have trouble verbalizing my needs to an angry person.
Anyone else experiencing this too? Yes, I'm still leaving but just thinking about what caused me to stay in an intolerable environment for so long and why I'm still worried about my AH's reaction and feelings to things.
Anyone else experiencing this too? Yes, I'm still leaving but just thinking about what caused me to stay in an intolerable environment for so long and why I'm still worried about my AH's reaction and feelings to things.
I've experienced it.
With my first ex, I wanted to leave very early into the relationship (6 months into a 1.5 year relationship). The warning signs were there and I naïvely ignored them. Then when things escalated, it became a blame game. We both blamed me for being the problem with the situation. Then I wised up and realized it wasn't me -- it was him. Even when I improved things on my end, nothing ever changed.
Then I was full of excuses. I can't leave because I can't afford to. I can't leave because all my stuff is here. I can't leave because __________. One day, the straw broke the back; and I literally said "I can't stay because I've had enough".
Looking back, I kick myself for staying so long sometimes.
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Anyone else experiencing this too? Yes, I'm still leaving but just thinking about what caused me to stay in an intolerable environment for so long and why I'm still worried about my AH's reaction and feelings to things.
Yes, last weekend my ex was here, and I was all....anxious, nervous, excited?
But, I did feel the need to push a meeting between him and my oldest sons daughter.
He has known my oldest son since he was four years old and he will be 32 in august.
I wanted my ex to be happy about the grandchild. Or step grandchild.
It was okay, but I remember wanting him to be happy about it.
I am glad the weekend is over, and my youngest son has connected with his uncle again.
My ex has moved two hours away.
I felt sort of sorry for him, and compassionate.
But, I did not want to show that.
<shrug>
Too many memories of that turning out badly.
Beth
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I was raised by an ACOA/Codie/non drinker. My brother was an out of control child and my roll was the good child who never asked for anything, and always tried to make things better for my often hysterical mom. My dad was very absent but not abusive or alcoholic. I was definitely taught how wrong it was to act selfishly, and also that the selfish role was the man's NOT the woman's or the girl's. I'm am not sure how all of that evolved into my later propensity to be involved with abusive substance abusers, but it really did.
I just realized yesterday how totally scared of confrontation I am too. My friend left her kids with me for a few days and told me she was going to Florida for work. I called her cell phone. She didn't pick up but it rang like she was in another country so I texted her and said "where the h*ll are you?". She admitted she was in the Caribbean but was very defensive and kept lying saying it was for work.( It was not for work.) I dropped it, but am very pissed off/freaked out. It isn't responsible for her to lie like that to me, especially when she knows I do not care where she is or whom she is with. I had her kids and their father lives abroad. I feel I have a right to know what effing country their mother is in!
Anyway, sorry to hijak this thread. My point is that I know I will not confront my friend any further about this because I am scared to. I have no idea what I am scared of exactly but if I think of confronting her, I feel panicked and sick to my stomach.
I read books on yoga philosophy and just read something a guru said about his belief that our Western tendency to look to our childhoods to solve our current problems keeps us stuck. I have shared this with a few people who have all adamantly disagreed. I must say, I do find it very helpful to understand the origins of my behavior. At the same time there are so many unanswered questions that drive me nuts. I am not sure I will ever know exactly why I am a raging codie but the fact remains I really need to work on changing.
By observing my own two children, I can definitely say there is an innate personality type that predisposes itself to codependency. My one child is competitive, self centered, and confident. The other one is passive, sensitive, and shy. The passive one is like a little codie in the making. Whenever I get upset about anything, that one will run around the house picking things up and trying to put out the fire while the other one remains totally unware that I am even upset. They are the same sex and honestly were born this way.
Anyway, sorry to ramble on; it's an interesting thread.
I just realized yesterday how totally scared of confrontation I am too. My friend left her kids with me for a few days and told me she was going to Florida for work. I called her cell phone. She didn't pick up but it rang like she was in another country so I texted her and said "where the h*ll are you?". She admitted she was in the Caribbean but was very defensive and kept lying saying it was for work.( It was not for work.) I dropped it, but am very pissed off/freaked out. It isn't responsible for her to lie like that to me, especially when she knows I do not care where she is or whom she is with. I had her kids and their father lives abroad. I feel I have a right to know what effing country their mother is in!
Anyway, sorry to hijak this thread. My point is that I know I will not confront my friend any further about this because I am scared to. I have no idea what I am scared of exactly but if I think of confronting her, I feel panicked and sick to my stomach.
I read books on yoga philosophy and just read something a guru said about his belief that our Western tendency to look to our childhoods to solve our current problems keeps us stuck. I have shared this with a few people who have all adamantly disagreed. I must say, I do find it very helpful to understand the origins of my behavior. At the same time there are so many unanswered questions that drive me nuts. I am not sure I will ever know exactly why I am a raging codie but the fact remains I really need to work on changing.
By observing my own two children, I can definitely say there is an innate personality type that predisposes itself to codependency. My one child is competitive, self centered, and confident. The other one is passive, sensitive, and shy. The passive one is like a little codie in the making. Whenever I get upset about anything, that one will run around the house picking things up and trying to put out the fire while the other one remains totally unware that I am even upset. They are the same sex and honestly were born this way.
Anyway, sorry to ramble on; it's an interesting thread.
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DreamsofSerenity, you are not hijacking the thread. Very interesting observations. Thank you all. I was out all morning. Came in for a break and to catch up here and then headed back again. I think the thing with talking to the dog is what I've posted before is that he talks so lovingly to the dog (sweetie, honey, darling) and in a tone of voice that is so kind but never to me. Gee, we have had no physical contact whatsoever in over a year so you think that in itself would tell me something. Anyway, I'm glad I've chosen the 4th of July week to move out because I'll be celebrating my independence too. From reading all the answers, we all share so much in common and I think that's why everyone is such a great help to each other. I appreciate each and every response. Just can't tell you how much it means to me to know others understand.
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Originally Posted by DreamsofSerenity
My point is that I know I will not confront my friend any further about this because I am scared to. I have no idea what I am scared of exactly but if I think of confronting her, I feel panicked and sick to my stomach.
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DoS, I wonder if your friend told you she was traveling for work because that's what she told her kids. Some parents feel they can't/shouldn't take time for themselves. Obviously, I don't condone lying to kids, but it might have been easier for her to say, "Mommy has to go on a trip for work," than to say, "Mommy needs a break so I'm going on vacation and I'm not taking you with me." So she might have told you the same story she told them. Just speculating, here.
I don't know that a huge confrontation is necessary, but you could tell her, just as you did here, that in case of an emergency with her kids you need to know EXACTLY where she is. And if she continues to not see the point, you could just tell her that under the circumstances you aren't comfortable being responsible for them and that she will need to make some other arrangements next time.
Think of it as a discussion, not a confrontation. I'm assuming this is a close friend, if she asked you to care for her children, so I'm assuming you would like to maintain the friendship. (Of course, if you feel that she constantly uses you and lies to you, then cutting off contact might be the solution.)
I don't know that a huge confrontation is necessary, but you could tell her, just as you did here, that in case of an emergency with her kids you need to know EXACTLY where she is. And if she continues to not see the point, you could just tell her that under the circumstances you aren't comfortable being responsible for them and that she will need to make some other arrangements next time.
Think of it as a discussion, not a confrontation. I'm assuming this is a close friend, if she asked you to care for her children, so I'm assuming you would like to maintain the friendship. (Of course, if you feel that she constantly uses you and lies to you, then cutting off contact might be the solution.)
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Thank you, TG and Lexie.
I just got off the phone with a wise aunt type figure of mine. She said the same thing: bringing it up with my friend does not have to be a "confrontation" ; it would really just be a discussion. I said to me it feels like a confrontation because I know it will make her uncomfortable. I know she doesn't want me to say anything further about it so if I do, I am knowingly displeasing her.
Lexie, she does stuff all the time that she doesn't tell her kids about, but tells me about--mainly dating stuff. She has a booty call guy in the area that she goes to see when her kids are with me for sleepovers. Recently I made her tell me the guy's last name in case she disappeared or something, so she knows I am uncomfortable with not knowing where she is. Anyway, even though I can't do the casual sex thing myself, I actually encourage her to do it because it seems to work for her and relaxes her--she's running a lot of male energy. So I am truly the type of friend who would encourage her to go on a mini-vacation alone, or with some random guy-- or two!
She totally knows that.
This felt very strange to me, like she was trying to pull something over on me for some twisted reason. There was just no reason for her to lie about it. Even if she didn't want me to know whom she is with, she didn't need to lie about where she was. I have never broken her trust. If she told me not to tell the kids, I wouldn't.
I don't really feel used by her, although if I really think about it, I probably am. Her kids are bonded to my kids and to me. It is honestly a pleasure for me to have them so I wouldn't give them up, even if she is just using me.
TG, I agree I shouldn't have these kind of people in my life, but if I get rid of all my unhealthy friends, I will seriously only have about one friend left. And to be honest, I am unclear about what unacceptable behavior is exactly, which is probably a sign that I am still unhealthy.
I just got off the phone with a wise aunt type figure of mine. She said the same thing: bringing it up with my friend does not have to be a "confrontation" ; it would really just be a discussion. I said to me it feels like a confrontation because I know it will make her uncomfortable. I know she doesn't want me to say anything further about it so if I do, I am knowingly displeasing her.
Lexie, she does stuff all the time that she doesn't tell her kids about, but tells me about--mainly dating stuff. She has a booty call guy in the area that she goes to see when her kids are with me for sleepovers. Recently I made her tell me the guy's last name in case she disappeared or something, so she knows I am uncomfortable with not knowing where she is. Anyway, even though I can't do the casual sex thing myself, I actually encourage her to do it because it seems to work for her and relaxes her--she's running a lot of male energy. So I am truly the type of friend who would encourage her to go on a mini-vacation alone, or with some random guy-- or two!
She totally knows that. This felt very strange to me, like she was trying to pull something over on me for some twisted reason. There was just no reason for her to lie about it. Even if she didn't want me to know whom she is with, she didn't need to lie about where she was. I have never broken her trust. If she told me not to tell the kids, I wouldn't.
I don't really feel used by her, although if I really think about it, I probably am. Her kids are bonded to my kids and to me. It is honestly a pleasure for me to have them so I wouldn't give them up, even if she is just using me.
TG, I agree I shouldn't have these kind of people in my life, but if I get rid of all my unhealthy friends, I will seriously only have about one friend left. And to be honest, I am unclear about what unacceptable behavior is exactly, which is probably a sign that I am still unhealthy.
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Well, if that isn't normally how she behaves (not being honest with you), then maybe clearing it up will help. You can say that because this isn't typical for her, you are a bit concerned and that you really just want to clear it up so it doesn't stand between you. Sometimes an approach like that kind of defuses the other person's defensive attitude. You're not attacking her, you are simply trying to prevent an issue from becoming a problem.
And if you don't feel used, don't go borrowing trouble by trying to analyze whether you are. If you enjoy her kids, and you enjoy her company and friendship, then it's working for you. Hopefully she would reciprocate if you were in a jam or wanted some help with something.
I think a friendly conversation might keep this from becoming a full-blown resentment. That's always a worthwhile goal, I think.
And if you don't feel used, don't go borrowing trouble by trying to analyze whether you are. If you enjoy her kids, and you enjoy her company and friendship, then it's working for you. Hopefully she would reciprocate if you were in a jam or wanted some help with something.
I think a friendly conversation might keep this from becoming a full-blown resentment. That's always a worthwhile goal, I think.
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Sunshinegirl,
I'm wondering if your AH is nice to the dog in front of you just to bug you. He could be mean to the dog as soon as you leave the room. I mean, what a good way to demean you: treating a dog better than he treats you. Just a thought.
I'm wondering if your AH is nice to the dog in front of you just to bug you. He could be mean to the dog as soon as you leave the room. I mean, what a good way to demean you: treating a dog better than he treats you. Just a thought.
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Originally Posted by DreamsofSerenity
I read books on yoga philosophy and just read something a guru said about his belief that our Western tendency to look to our childhoods to solve our current problems keeps us stuck. I have shared this with a few people who have all adamantly disagreed. I must say, I do find it very helpful to understand the origins of my behavior. At the same time there are so many unanswered questions that drive me nuts. I am not sure I will ever know exactly why I am a raging codie but the fact remains I really need to work on changing.
I think it's a question of awareness. I think deMello felt it was important to bring become aware and bring insights about your past to the forefront so you can move on. The problem is when you don't move on. It's not enough to say that your childhood messed you up--you have to, at that point, deal with the information, process it and transform it so that it no longer keeps you from the next step in your spiritual journey.
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SoloMio.. Thank you! I think I will look Anthony de Mello up. I am very interested in thinkers who blend different spiritual approaches because I find value in all of them. I always feel like the guy in the Life of Pi. I was raised a Catholic but am very attracted to yoga, so Anthony de Mello sounds very interesting to me.
I think the point the author of the book I was reading (BKS Iyengar in Light on Life) was trying to make was that Westerners try to solve emotional problems intellectually which he claims is impossible. He says emotional problems can only be resolved through emotional understanding, and that emotions lie in a physical sense in the physiological body.
Yoga has helped me more than anything else has in terms of healing past wounds, but in terms of learning how to deal with an alcoholic, no amount of standing on my head was giving me the answers I needed. The people on SR did that!
I think the point the author of the book I was reading (BKS Iyengar in Light on Life) was trying to make was that Westerners try to solve emotional problems intellectually which he claims is impossible. He says emotional problems can only be resolved through emotional understanding, and that emotions lie in a physical sense in the physiological body.
Yoga has helped me more than anything else has in terms of healing past wounds, but in terms of learning how to deal with an alcoholic, no amount of standing on my head was giving me the answers I needed. The people on SR did that!
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
I can only speak from my experience as an adult child of an alcoholic. When I was growing up, there was an unspoken rule about Not Making Mom Angry. Something just terrible would happen if we Made Mom Angry. So at a very young age, I learned to put my own needs aside in order to help keep the peace in the house. I learned that the only person's feelings that mattered were hers. It didn't matter that we had all set ourselves up for failure. If she was going to get angry, or drink, or yell, or threaten to leave, she was going to do just that, no matter how 'perfect' any of us tried to be. And because we were failed so much, we all learned to believe we were failures.
Then I took these survival mechanisms that I learned when I was completely dependent on parents for all my needs and I brought them into my adult relationships. Just make the other person happy, don't worry about whether or not YOU are happy, you aren't really good enough to deserve anyone's love anyway, so just be grateful anyone wants to be with you at all. All that jolly stuff.
I lived in denial of this dynamic for about thirty-two years before my first marriage spectacularly imploded (not because ofalcoholic but because I had to sabotage the relationship in order to confirm my beliefs that no one could ever truly love me). Then I got into therapy and started the long, bumpy road towards forgiving myself for not being enough to fix my mother's unhappiness, towards understanding that it actually had nothing to do with me, and finally, towards loving and caring for myself enough to make better choices in relationships.
I am glad you are getting out of your situation!
Then I took these survival mechanisms that I learned when I was completely dependent on parents for all my needs and I brought them into my adult relationships. Just make the other person happy, don't worry about whether or not YOU are happy, you aren't really good enough to deserve anyone's love anyway, so just be grateful anyone wants to be with you at all. All that jolly stuff.
I lived in denial of this dynamic for about thirty-two years before my first marriage spectacularly imploded (not because ofalcoholic but because I had to sabotage the relationship in order to confirm my beliefs that no one could ever truly love me). Then I got into therapy and started the long, bumpy road towards forgiving myself for not being enough to fix my mother's unhappiness, towards understanding that it actually had nothing to do with me, and finally, towards loving and caring for myself enough to make better choices in relationships.
I am glad you are getting out of your situation!
It's scary and I TOTALLY get where your coming from.
It's sad that we're where we are but something significant has changed already in your thinking to be making plans and you've obviously have insight and understanding and God knows you're strong because you've been through a lot.
I support you and send you love
xxx
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Originally Posted by DreamsofSerenity
SoloMio.. Thank you! I think I will look Anthony de Mello up. I am very interested in thinkers who blend different spiritual approaches because I find value in all of them. I always feel like the guy in the Life of Pi. I was raised a Catholic but am very attracted to yoga, so Anthony de Mello sounds very interesting to me.
I think the point the author of the book I was reading (BKS Iyengar in Light on Life) was trying to make was that Westerners try to solve emotional problems intellectually which he claims is impossible. He says emotional problems can only be resolved through emotional understanding, and that emotions lie in a physical sense in the physiological body.
Yoga has helped me more than anything else has in terms of healing past wounds, but in terms of learning how to deal with an alcoholic, no amount of standing on my head was giving me the answers I needed. The people on SR did that!
I think the point the author of the book I was reading (BKS Iyengar in Light on Life) was trying to make was that Westerners try to solve emotional problems intellectually which he claims is impossible. He says emotional problems can only be resolved through emotional understanding, and that emotions lie in a physical sense in the physiological body.
Yoga has helped me more than anything else has in terms of healing past wounds, but in terms of learning how to deal with an alcoholic, no amount of standing on my head was giving me the answers I needed. The people on SR did that!
And his younger brother, Bill deMello, wrote a biography about him called The Happy Wanderer.
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It's odd. I look back now on the 5-6 years that I put up with her drinking. I wonder why I held on for so long but I guess that was just the enabler in me. I seriously thought I could fix her if I loved her enough and held on a little longer.
I greatly feared giving up and being seen as failing to keep my marriage going.
The kids and I did a lot to no "poke the bear". Clean up the house before she gets home! Do this! Do that! All in hopes that if she were happier, she wouldn't drink. None of it worked and I/we just kept trying harder.
I greatly feared giving up and being seen as failing to keep my marriage going.
The kids and I did a lot to no "poke the bear". Clean up the house before she gets home! Do this! Do that! All in hopes that if she were happier, she wouldn't drink. None of it worked and I/we just kept trying harder.
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