So hes not drinking, but is untreated bipolar. I give up. Cant wait til March...
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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He also has asked if we can open a conversation abt starting over, reassessing his moving out.
My sponsor (alanon) said I should make a schedule for two weeks time. Schedule in time for him to 'be himself', and time for me, as well. List three nights he should b home for dinner, two nights he dies bedtime duties, etc..
Her feeling is he will either respond well to the structure or he won't, but if he doesn't, then I am well within reason in asking him to leave.
Her feeling is he will either respond well to the structure or he won't, but if he doesn't, then I am well within reason in asking him to leave.
I would like to point out that he can do these things without actually living together. You already have reason to ask him to leave. He is basically acting like he doesn't live there anyway.
He told me yesterday he wants to be a solid, reliable man, and he knows he has a long way to go. He asked for my patience.
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Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
I agree with Thumper!
And even tho' I said that panic and paranoia can come with bipolar it still isn't your problem to sort out.
I learn in counseling to "reality check" things rather than react off of those feelings.
I learn deep relaxation excercises to relax panic.
I learn to journal my mixed up stuff instead of dumping them on somebody else.
Even if he HAS bipolar..it isn't a free pass!!
And even tho' I said that panic and paranoia can come with bipolar it still isn't your problem to sort out.
I learn in counseling to "reality check" things rather than react off of those feelings.
I learn deep relaxation excercises to relax panic.
I learn to journal my mixed up stuff instead of dumping them on somebody else.
Even if he HAS bipolar..it isn't a free pass!!
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
I have struggled with this for years, SJ.
10 years.
His older brother asked me once why I stayed. He is a psych grad, is pretty removed fro
their family chaos.
I said that I have seen his darkest parts, his brightest, and still I see him as a shimmery lit up ball of light. I still kind of sigh and swoon when he walks in the room. Many times, only over the years, it has been mixed up with a recurring sense of dread.
I have childhood issues. I know I may be acting out, but at 42, I have been through enough therapy and self work that I feel like I can see the difference between pure sickness on my part. I am not finished, by far, but he is lit from within.
I have tried diversion, as in dating. I have tried no contact. I have tried to maintain my Anger... To let it gain critical mass.
Heis a certified genius, he was a ballet dancer, professional volleyball player, he is the most ethereally gifted and unrealized musician I have ever seen, and I was on tour w the best for years. Everything in him is raw and unrealized, and his heart is wild and real.
He is like Robert Downey Jr. Without the comeback, lol...
I know many addicts are the sterotypical unrealized wild talents and geniuses(sp?)
I know I sound like a teenage girl or something.
If it helps you understand at all, many of the support people in my life who have tried to assist me in processing through and letting go of this relationship do many times come to a place of understanding why I have had trouble leaving. He is an intensely charismatic person, and even in spite of his terrible Behavior become won over.
I have had times of feeling like he was a full blown conman,
10 years.
His older brother asked me once why I stayed. He is a psych grad, is pretty removed fro
their family chaos.
I said that I have seen his darkest parts, his brightest, and still I see him as a shimmery lit up ball of light. I still kind of sigh and swoon when he walks in the room. Many times, only over the years, it has been mixed up with a recurring sense of dread.
I have childhood issues. I know I may be acting out, but at 42, I have been through enough therapy and self work that I feel like I can see the difference between pure sickness on my part. I am not finished, by far, but he is lit from within.
I have tried diversion, as in dating. I have tried no contact. I have tried to maintain my Anger... To let it gain critical mass.
Heis a certified genius, he was a ballet dancer, professional volleyball player, he is the most ethereally gifted and unrealized musician I have ever seen, and I was on tour w the best for years. Everything in him is raw and unrealized, and his heart is wild and real.
He is like Robert Downey Jr. Without the comeback, lol...
I know many addicts are the sterotypical unrealized wild talents and geniuses(sp?)
I know I sound like a teenage girl or something.
If it helps you understand at all, many of the support people in my life who have tried to assist me in processing through and letting go of this relationship do many times come to a place of understanding why I have had trouble leaving. He is an intensely charismatic person, and even in spite of his terrible Behavior become won over.
I have had times of feeling like he was a full blown conman,
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Sorry I am having posting issues...
As I was saying, yes, conman, at times...
But his goals are not malicious. I often come to a place of weighing the pain of not having him here, and the pain of him being here.
I have even been exploring the concept of my using him, in a larger, spiritual sense, to limit my potential, to justify my immobility as a powerful person.
It's heady stuff, and hard to look at.
I am a musician, artist, author... He stunts my growth potential, or rather I use him as a tool to do that.
I look at these things. And that anger and clarity about it has gained some critical mass as of late. Those who follow my threads can see that..
But yes, there is an unseemly sticking point here. My "love" for him.
Truly, he fell in lobe with me when I was at my peak. A powerful, realized creative person. Now he seems threatened by those very things, in spite of the fact that he has them innately and in spades.
Every junkie like a setting sun.. I don't want to be in this sterotype.
I don't want to be held hostage by it.
But he is a person, with a heart, with goals.
Now I am just rambling.
Bring on the big guns...lol.
I know I have said too much, and my confusion is transparent.
As I was saying, yes, conman, at times...
But his goals are not malicious. I often come to a place of weighing the pain of not having him here, and the pain of him being here.
I have even been exploring the concept of my using him, in a larger, spiritual sense, to limit my potential, to justify my immobility as a powerful person.
It's heady stuff, and hard to look at.
I am a musician, artist, author... He stunts my growth potential, or rather I use him as a tool to do that.
I look at these things. And that anger and clarity about it has gained some critical mass as of late. Those who follow my threads can see that..
But yes, there is an unseemly sticking point here. My "love" for him.
Truly, he fell in lobe with me when I was at my peak. A powerful, realized creative person. Now he seems threatened by those very things, in spite of the fact that he has them innately and in spades.
Every junkie like a setting sun.. I don't want to be in this sterotype.
I don't want to be held hostage by it.
But he is a person, with a heart, with goals.
Now I am just rambling.
Bring on the big guns...lol.
I know I have said too much, and my confusion is transparent.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Bring on the big guns...lol.
It sounds to me and this is JMHO that you are in love with the MAN HE COULD BE not the man he is TODAY.
With that being said, ................................ how about doing a Pro/Con list on the person he is today? ie the bouncing off the walls, the mood swings, the lack of help around the house, not spending time with his child, his paranoia, his childish ways, etc And see what you come up with.
I still believe your idea of having him move out is a good one, and preferably to a Sober Living House. The reason I suggest the SL is there will be 'rules' and 'routine' he will have to follow. There will be 'regimentation' in his life. Part of the requirements (each house is different) will be that he has to attend X number of meetings per week, he will have to do chores, he will start to learn how to 'interact' with others, there will be 'house meetings' and slowly he will earn privileges, privileges that will allow him more time away from the house to visit his child.
Certainly going to the 'bar' will not be allowed, and just going for coffee without a meeting first will probably also be a 'no no.'
It is something you really need to think about. Suggest to him and see how he 'reacts.' His reaction will be an excellent clue as to how serious he really is.
I realize that this whole situation is like you trying to swim in quick sand and there are times when you also do not know if you are coming or going, and yet you keep the house running, the groceries purchased, the meals made, take care of your son, etc I know this is hard for you, and the fact that you are so willing to come here and share and ask for help is a big plus for you.
Please know that we are with you in spirit.
Please keep posting as we do care very much!
Love and hugs,
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ashland Oregon
Posts: 256
ITA with Laurie ... the love is for the potential man.
AAM: My XH has untreated bipolar disorder - he threw the prescription out the car window, and I left him on the sidewalk. Harsh. That was 5 years ago.
We were together 10 years, and, yes, the sex was great, fantastic, the best! So? You can only do things one day at a time, anyway. Don't worry about the future. IME, he forced me to be more of myself, constantly re-inventing myself and protecting and defining my moral compass. Now, I'm with a man who celebrates the better me. (He's an alcoholic, but I had never seen one before, so I didn't know. Ironic, yet somehow... stupid. ugh.)
My suggestion for you is to be patient with yourself, and keep your and your son's physical and emotional safety as top priority. Do not hesitate when your dh wants to stay - he must go or get treatment. Maybe he needs to go in order to allow himself to get treatment, kwim? You can't fight crazy, and as long as he refuses to own up to a chemical imbalance, your life is going to be hell. (I should listen to my own advice, eh?)
fwiw, XH tried telling me that he had been a dry drunk all that time... but no, he has bipolar disorder. untreated, still. Our son is almost 11 now ~ life is better all around, even living with ABF.
Please let us know how things are going, and be good to yourself!
- Sylvie
AAM: My XH has untreated bipolar disorder - he threw the prescription out the car window, and I left him on the sidewalk. Harsh. That was 5 years ago.
We were together 10 years, and, yes, the sex was great, fantastic, the best! So? You can only do things one day at a time, anyway. Don't worry about the future. IME, he forced me to be more of myself, constantly re-inventing myself and protecting and defining my moral compass. Now, I'm with a man who celebrates the better me. (He's an alcoholic, but I had never seen one before, so I didn't know. Ironic, yet somehow... stupid. ugh.)
My suggestion for you is to be patient with yourself, and keep your and your son's physical and emotional safety as top priority. Do not hesitate when your dh wants to stay - he must go or get treatment. Maybe he needs to go in order to allow himself to get treatment, kwim? You can't fight crazy, and as long as he refuses to own up to a chemical imbalance, your life is going to be hell. (I should listen to my own advice, eh?)
fwiw, XH tried telling me that he had been a dry drunk all that time... but no, he has bipolar disorder. untreated, still. Our son is almost 11 now ~ life is better all around, even living with ABF.
Please let us know how things are going, and be good to yourself!
- Sylvie
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
Two weeks.
Look for it to get way crazier than this in fourteen days.
But -
spomething to remember -
YOU aren't doing anything to him
HE ... has done this to himself.
and gotten away with it all his life.
He's just trying every old trick that's ever worked
to get away with it ... again.
Look for it to get way crazier than this in fourteen days.
But -
spomething to remember -
YOU aren't doing anything to him
HE ... has done this to himself.
and gotten away with it all his life.
He's just trying every old trick that's ever worked
to get away with it ... again.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Just tried to have the schedule convo...
Went like this:
A: I'd like to order cable & Internet.
Me: I don't kno abt that. We don't know if you will be able to stay here.
A: I am working and I do nit drink.
Me: I don't think I can go on living w you here unless we establish a schedule and you can respect and adhere to it. Things are too erratic.
A: I think if we could just write down when ur period is coming that is enough of a schedule.
Me: I am talking about a set schedule for family time, time for u to do whatever, time for me to do the same. It would be set, so no one gets shafted.
A: I work all day, u do nothing. That's ur free time. ( I just sold $4000 worth of paintings that I did while I was doing nothing. I also pay a little more than half of all household expenses.)
A: you are just trying to maneuver to control me. You won't win. I wong b coming home tonight(lie).
He also said I was screaming at him which I was not at all.
I then said that if he wants to pay all the expenses, then I'll just b w son and keep house, that's a different story, buteven then he is expected to b part of the family, adhere to a schedule somewhat, b consistent, keep plans....
He left w his work clothes for tomorrow.
What is he so afraid of? Honestly!
Went like this:
A: I'd like to order cable & Internet.
Me: I don't kno abt that. We don't know if you will be able to stay here.
A: I am working and I do nit drink.
Me: I don't think I can go on living w you here unless we establish a schedule and you can respect and adhere to it. Things are too erratic.
A: I think if we could just write down when ur period is coming that is enough of a schedule.
Me: I am talking about a set schedule for family time, time for u to do whatever, time for me to do the same. It would be set, so no one gets shafted.
A: I work all day, u do nothing. That's ur free time. ( I just sold $4000 worth of paintings that I did while I was doing nothing. I also pay a little more than half of all household expenses.)
A: you are just trying to maneuver to control me. You won't win. I wong b coming home tonight(lie).
He also said I was screaming at him which I was not at all.
I then said that if he wants to pay all the expenses, then I'll just b w son and keep house, that's a different story, buteven then he is expected to b part of the family, adhere to a schedule somewhat, b consistent, keep plans....
He left w his work clothes for tomorrow.
What is he so afraid of? Honestly!
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by Buffalo66 
A: I think if we could just write down when ur period is coming
This brings up an interesting point, during ovulation some females react to situations and behave in ways at odds with their usual self. This hormone driven behavior can, at times, be likened to bi polar: mood swings, irrational thoughts etc, in fact it is now classified in the DSM as being a mental illness and is medicated with anti depressants.
I would imagine that someone with "bi-polar" would find it extremely difficult to get along amicably with someone with severe untreated pre menstrual syndrome.
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Posts: 1,175
My head hurts,
I invite you to go over some of my past posts.
Please feel free to express yourself, but I do not think even "severe" PMS in ones partner can be held accountable for what is clearly near psychotic behavior, with paranoia, panic, angry outbursts unprovoked attacks.
He has irrational fears at times, he cowers away, runs, leaves the house and doesn't come home after work.
He has admitted to experiencing regular and frightening feelings of unreality. When it happens he lashes out at me.
Whether I am cranky from my period seems to have no bearing on his ability to cope with hhis mind.
It does weaken my ability to cope with the erratic nature of it.
I invite you to go over some of my past posts.
Please feel free to express yourself, but I do not think even "severe" PMS in ones partner can be held accountable for what is clearly near psychotic behavior, with paranoia, panic, angry outbursts unprovoked attacks.
He has irrational fears at times, he cowers away, runs, leaves the house and doesn't come home after work.
He has admitted to experiencing regular and frightening feelings of unreality. When it happens he lashes out at me.
Whether I am cranky from my period seems to have no bearing on his ability to cope with hhis mind.
It does weaken my ability to cope with the erratic nature of it.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
whew. I had to step back from the sarcasm and I am too old for hormone attacks! LOL
And apparently you are a high functioning person who still is hormonely active. LOL
okay..no more sarcasm from me.
He sounds pretty darned afraid of leaving! Trying to have things hooked up and have more bills and ties.
But unwillling to be a full participant in a relationship and household too.
The want to keep your cake and eat it too syndrome.
And the running out with the work clothes and not coming home tonight is supposed to punish you.
That is one thing you do not have to participate in.
How can you have a great evening?
And apparently you are a high functioning person who still is hormonely active. LOL
okay..no more sarcasm from me.
He sounds pretty darned afraid of leaving! Trying to have things hooked up and have more bills and ties.
But unwillling to be a full participant in a relationship and household too.
The want to keep your cake and eat it too syndrome.
And the running out with the work clothes and not coming home tonight is supposed to punish you.
That is one thing you do not have to participate in.
How can you have a great evening?
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
So sorry you are having to deal with these ups and downs. It can really rub off on you and shake your focus. Just gets exhausting.
My EX's mother was clinically bipolar and most of the time was consistent with her medications and therapy. The times she wasn't were very trying. Panic and paranoia were the first signs that she wasn't staying on top of her own care. Sadly, this is when her own children would run for the hills. I didn't understand why, but then I did not grow up with a bipolar parent so I couldn't truly understand the chaos they had to stay away from.
I noticed the same behaviors in my EX at times. His siblings were both treated for depression and had sought therapy. He had always refused the notion of having inherited the illness, but his mood swings were certainly similar. Always hard to say if it wasn't alcohol related instead so he would just maintain that cutting back on the booze would fix things no matter how many times that plan failed.
I found that the more successful my recovery was the more I focused on my health and well being, the more certain he became that there was another man. There was no evidence to be found and nothing to support his suspicions but the accusations kept coming up. By that time, I was spending so little time near him that I avoided the worst of his rants on the subject. I guess in his view, if I'm happy and healthy, there must be a man involved in it somehow. I don't think he ever believed otherwise, but as with any addict, I was never going to convince him so I just didn't bother trying to.
In reality, I was feeling pretty broken as a sexual being by that point and the thought of finding another man actually caused me sadness rather than excitement. Certainly, the idea of one day finding love again was there, but I was more excited about getting to pick my own home furnishings. LOL. Maybe it was my excitement of having a new couch that he was picking up on, who knows.
March 1st is coming. Hang in there. Without addiction looming over your every day and the crest and falls of his moods buzzing around you, you will find more time to think clearly and rest emotionally and you will find yourself again. Sure, you'll deal with him as far as parenting, but there will be an escape for you where you can rebuild your emotional health. It certainly happened for me. I found I was a far cry from broken and it surprised me
Baby steps. You can do this. We're supporting you all the way.
Hugs,
Alice
Hey, Bookwyrm...thanks for the reminder of that thread. Yes I do blush at it, but it remains one of my all time favorites!
My EX's mother was clinically bipolar and most of the time was consistent with her medications and therapy. The times she wasn't were very trying. Panic and paranoia were the first signs that she wasn't staying on top of her own care. Sadly, this is when her own children would run for the hills. I didn't understand why, but then I did not grow up with a bipolar parent so I couldn't truly understand the chaos they had to stay away from.
I noticed the same behaviors in my EX at times. His siblings were both treated for depression and had sought therapy. He had always refused the notion of having inherited the illness, but his mood swings were certainly similar. Always hard to say if it wasn't alcohol related instead so he would just maintain that cutting back on the booze would fix things no matter how many times that plan failed.
I found that the more successful my recovery was the more I focused on my health and well being, the more certain he became that there was another man. There was no evidence to be found and nothing to support his suspicions but the accusations kept coming up. By that time, I was spending so little time near him that I avoided the worst of his rants on the subject. I guess in his view, if I'm happy and healthy, there must be a man involved in it somehow. I don't think he ever believed otherwise, but as with any addict, I was never going to convince him so I just didn't bother trying to.
In reality, I was feeling pretty broken as a sexual being by that point and the thought of finding another man actually caused me sadness rather than excitement. Certainly, the idea of one day finding love again was there, but I was more excited about getting to pick my own home furnishings. LOL. Maybe it was my excitement of having a new couch that he was picking up on, who knows.
March 1st is coming. Hang in there. Without addiction looming over your every day and the crest and falls of his moods buzzing around you, you will find more time to think clearly and rest emotionally and you will find yourself again. Sure, you'll deal with him as far as parenting, but there will be an escape for you where you can rebuild your emotional health. It certainly happened for me. I found I was a far cry from broken and it surprised me
Baby steps. You can do this. We're supporting you all the way.
Hugs,
Alice
Hey, Bookwyrm...thanks for the reminder of that thread. Yes I do blush at it, but it remains one of my all time favorites!
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Oh, and for what it's worth, not much in the face of ignorance I realize, I find myself more hormonal and emotionally open now during my cycles than I ever was with my EX. Of course I'm free now to be a human being with emotions like everyone else whereas before, God forbid I have a bad day. That was the standard excuse for every serious binge and dreadful verbal attack.
When we were together, the slightest mood swing from me would set off a tidal wave of verbal abuse and blame shifting from him, so I had to learn to keep myself in check. Nothing quite like getting painful hormone shots to stifle your monthly cycle every three months and suffering all the side effects just to get accused of having raving PMS.
Take heart Buffalo66, it's not you, it's him. He's grabbing at anything he can to stay upright as the ground falls away beneath him. He's striking out with all he has and running away and pointing fingers at you just means he's not getting by your boundaries. It's panic fire. The kitchen sink will be flying by soon.
Stay strong.
When we were together, the slightest mood swing from me would set off a tidal wave of verbal abuse and blame shifting from him, so I had to learn to keep myself in check. Nothing quite like getting painful hormone shots to stifle your monthly cycle every three months and suffering all the side effects just to get accused of having raving PMS.
Take heart Buffalo66, it's not you, it's him. He's grabbing at anything he can to stay upright as the ground falls away beneath him. He's striking out with all he has and running away and pointing fingers at you just means he's not getting by your boundaries. It's panic fire. The kitchen sink will be flying by soon.
Stay strong.
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