The Damn Book - Chapter 2: Shattering
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Don't have the book yet but after catching up all the posts here I would say that the point of being present minded or holding onto a thought is about developing a tolerance for the thought/feeling.
The point of the chop wood/ carry water meditation is to point out that enlightenment changes what goes on inside us - our thoughts and emotions etc so the changes may or may not be evident outwardly.
The overall idea seems to be that we can't escape our experiences we can only change our reaction to them.
Will try to follow with the book - sounds scary for me - my big issue - and it is kicking me big time since my separation. Not sure I can handle the reading or discussion but will try with the support of others esp understanding that it is tough for all.
The point of the chop wood/ carry water meditation is to point out that enlightenment changes what goes on inside us - our thoughts and emotions etc so the changes may or may not be evident outwardly.
The overall idea seems to be that we can't escape our experiences we can only change our reaction to them.
Will try to follow with the book - sounds scary for me - my big issue - and it is kicking me big time since my separation. Not sure I can handle the reading or discussion but will try with the support of others esp understanding that it is tough for all.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
The point of the chop wood/ carry water meditation is to point out that enlightenment changes what goes on inside us - our thoughts and emotions etc so the changes may or may not be evident outwardly
Thank you very much Kassie, I must think on this for a few minutes.
Yes, what is happening inside? My gut reactions to something mundane are not in tune with the actual event.
I will come back with an example I think.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
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You are welcome and I will come back to read more. Can't say that I am there yet myself but I know what the tools are and how to use them. They actually work in most cases. I am just going through a the toughest time in my life and I have been through a lot.
Currently, daughter came home for the summer which alleviated some of my distress for awhile and now she is returning to school. I will be alone again and been upset about it. Estranged A husband I see daily but he won't talk to me even just to be polite.
Currently, daughter came home for the summer which alleviated some of my distress for awhile and now she is returning to school. I will be alone again and been upset about it. Estranged A husband I see daily but he won't talk to me even just to be polite.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
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Just reading the preface - great book. My reactions: #1) abandonment is a belief that I am not loved anymore, 2) abandonment says more about my ex than me, 3) abandonment is feeling empty or deserted.
First thing I noticed is that how we perceive abandonment" reveals what we think". I am overwhelmed to admit that I perceive the losses as loss of love. Not true, but sure feels this way. Have a lot to deal with.
Like the part about how it says more about him than me. Very true.
More to deal with about my children growing up and letting go. Need to put my thoughts in check. Better yet to change them to meet up with the truth. They love me, they need to leave in order to have lives of their own. It is not about me, not a loss but growth. How can I get myself so caught up in thinking it is about me. OMG help! I need to be glad that I did my job so well.
First thing I noticed is that how we perceive abandonment" reveals what we think". I am overwhelmed to admit that I perceive the losses as loss of love. Not true, but sure feels this way. Have a lot to deal with.
Like the part about how it says more about him than me. Very true.
More to deal with about my children growing up and letting go. Need to put my thoughts in check. Better yet to change them to meet up with the truth. They love me, they need to leave in order to have lives of their own. It is not about me, not a loss but growth. How can I get myself so caught up in thinking it is about me. OMG help! I need to be glad that I did my job so well.
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
Hey Kassie. Glad you joined us! So far, we have threads up to Chapter 2. You can discuss anything about the chapters at anytime you want.
The basic plan was to try a chapter a week, and when someone starts a new chapter thread (anyone can do it) they need to put the name of the book and the chapter number in the first post.
The basic plan was to try a chapter a week, and when someone starts a new chapter thread (anyone can do it) they need to put the name of the book and the chapter number in the first post.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
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Finished chap one: glad she has a plan b/c I don't like what I see in myself. I have just about all the different kinds of abandonment possible - just one heaping mass of AB. Prior history is steeped mostly around my abuse and neglect from mother and father's death. Then as an adult the relationships that didn't last forever - have I crawled out from a rock? I thought they were supposed to last - my fault for having such a crazy thought. Well here's hoping the exercises will calm my anxiety and profound dissappointment in life and move me onto (yet again) another life turning point toward a life filled future (gee I have my doubts)
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
I hear what you're saying Kassie. The exercises have been good for me, but just as helpful has been reading the words on the pages. Having someone articulate all the stuff that's been festering inside of me for years has been healing in itself. It has helped me to understand what's been going on with me all my life. Glad you're here!
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
Shattering for me
The aftershock of an earlier experience, an eruption of old, forgotten feelings.
Even though I was not drinking, I was terrified of becoming close to anyone. Just the thought of it would make me anxious. Therapists and counselors have said I am insightful and empathetic and would be a good counselor, but that idea terrifies me as well. Because I still feel like a little kid who doesnt even deserve her parents love and attention. Good God. My fear that people would "find out" I am unworthy and unloveable, and doomed to loneliness forever.
How can I harness this amazing power to belittle and shame myself over things that happened 40 years ago.
I also have an ability to hide my fears that is awesome. My daughter pointed it out to me the other day. We were sitting under the metal corrugated carport in my buick. I back into the space. The metal corrugate is held up by a huge I beam made of some kind of heavy metal. I accidently hit the open trunk button on the car. When that trunk hit that I beam, it sounded like a sonic boom. I felt myself jump and said to my daughter,
"that scared the **** out of me!"
She said, "really? didnt look like it. You went like this>"
Then she sat up straight, slowly turned in her seat, and with a completely flat and placid face said, "that scared the crap out of me."
Wow, the disconnect between what I do, and what I feel is incredible.
I hope I can get them together.
I have been picking relationships that will end with abandonment, and every time it happens, it seems to solidify for me that I will not ever be in a stable, happy (whatever that is) relationship.
This must change.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
About getting to the present moment and staying there...
It is not something I can force or cause to happen. I believe that the primary, natural way I do this is when I cry and sob and wail from the depths of my soul, which I have done many times in my life. I think that is my body and soul's way of returning me to my center.
Two trainings I have undertaken have helped me immensely. The first: yoga. It returns me to my self, it trains my body to breathe, it gives me strength and focus and centers me. The second: The Alexander Technique. It is a movement discipline that likely requires a teacher (I am not sure you can learn it from a book). It re-taught my body the natural use of its self. It taught me to be able to recognize when I am trying to FORCE myself, or force others, into getting a specific outcome. It re-taught me awareness.
My point? That there is no "right" or "wrong" in how you approach returning to and remaining in the present moment. That, for me, it is about inhibiting my usual response to my environment and the people in it, mainly by breathing through it, taking my time, not reacting, letting go of the outcomes, and other things we learn in The Program. I don't believe you can force yourself into the Present Moment, not by thinking anyway. But by inhibiting and allowing. Which is Acceptance.
It helped also to learn to expect the best possible motivations in others. To not allow myself to think the worst but to understand that we are ALL doing the best we can to survive this world.
It is not something I can force or cause to happen. I believe that the primary, natural way I do this is when I cry and sob and wail from the depths of my soul, which I have done many times in my life. I think that is my body and soul's way of returning me to my center.
Two trainings I have undertaken have helped me immensely. The first: yoga. It returns me to my self, it trains my body to breathe, it gives me strength and focus and centers me. The second: The Alexander Technique. It is a movement discipline that likely requires a teacher (I am not sure you can learn it from a book). It re-taught my body the natural use of its self. It taught me to be able to recognize when I am trying to FORCE myself, or force others, into getting a specific outcome. It re-taught me awareness.
My point? That there is no "right" or "wrong" in how you approach returning to and remaining in the present moment. That, for me, it is about inhibiting my usual response to my environment and the people in it, mainly by breathing through it, taking my time, not reacting, letting go of the outcomes, and other things we learn in The Program. I don't believe you can force yourself into the Present Moment, not by thinking anyway. But by inhibiting and allowing. Which is Acceptance.
It helped also to learn to expect the best possible motivations in others. To not allow myself to think the worst but to understand that we are ALL doing the best we can to survive this world.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
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Since I was abruptly awaken by a bad dream in which I realized that everyone in my life has abandoned me at some point - I decided to read more. To my surprise I actually felt better having someone put words to my experiences that help me to understand :1) that my experience is to some degree universal - has a pattern and many others experience the same, 2) just what thoughts I am having which lead to a negative explanation vs a positive one, 3) that I don't get to control what others say and do - only how I choose to respond.
On the one hand the losses have piled up high in my life - I have real reasons to feel the way that I do. I am curious to learn more about the neuroscience of these experiences b/c I really believe that my current marriage has been pulled apart in large part due to this issue on both sides. My husband and I both come from abusive childhoods. I thought we understood each other but the fact is that I think we both missed the boat - on my part a lot had to do with his drinking behavior.
Was intrigued by the concept of the "temporariness" of events vs thinking that things will always be this way. My biggest problem yet.
On the one hand the losses have piled up high in my life - I have real reasons to feel the way that I do. I am curious to learn more about the neuroscience of these experiences b/c I really believe that my current marriage has been pulled apart in large part due to this issue on both sides. My husband and I both come from abusive childhoods. I thought we understood each other but the fact is that I think we both missed the boat - on my part a lot had to do with his drinking behavior.
Was intrigued by the concept of the "temporariness" of events vs thinking that things will always be this way. My biggest problem yet.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
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Finished chap one - enjoyed the experience of mindfulness - I actually have places in my house that I go to for comfort - where I might be able to stare out a window to a nature seen, or sink into a comfy chair, or listen to faraway noises of the R&R and cars on the highway - mostly there is a lot of animal life running and flying the back yards (who would think a suburb would be so rich with animal life) It does help with the pain at times.
The nighttime is the hardest for me - when I get home from work and when something breaks down - by the way does anyone else have things constantly breaking down or not working temporarily like I do? Seems unnatural for me and is a major source of frustration. While reading the end of this chapter and being home sick (and BTW I couldn't get on much yesterday b/c the computor went in/out all day/night) I got this idea for keeping a log of when things happen - and what I did to fix it or who did I call that helped to resolve the problem. I am hoping that doing this will be a concrete way to feel I know what to do when things happen - learn when to call for help - and track problems over time for a reality check.
Yesterday was a real challenge to me emotionally - I was home from work b/c I was sick - had no one to help me - the computor was no consolation b/c it wasn't working - the new printer I bought didn't work and when I called my son who set it up - he didn't respond - my daughter is packing to return to school and had her own frustrations - I discovered the new lock I put on the fence in the back was broken and the people who clean the carpet want everything moved or put away - great more moving!
It all seems like little stuff but I understand better now through this reading how it relates to my past. Between the loss of one parent and abuse/neglect from the other I never felt that I had anyone to lean on. I still feel deep down that someone should be there for me to help out. I get angry when no one is there. I get jealous of people who have parents and spouses or adult/indep children to help out. Didn't realize until now where that feeling came from and to understand that it is biologically encoded in me I get that it will take time and activity on my part to change it. (like the log)(just filling it out for the past month I can see how much I figured out to do and who I can call to fix things when needed)
Mindfulness and yoga - I now know why they work for me.
The nighttime is the hardest for me - when I get home from work and when something breaks down - by the way does anyone else have things constantly breaking down or not working temporarily like I do? Seems unnatural for me and is a major source of frustration. While reading the end of this chapter and being home sick (and BTW I couldn't get on much yesterday b/c the computor went in/out all day/night) I got this idea for keeping a log of when things happen - and what I did to fix it or who did I call that helped to resolve the problem. I am hoping that doing this will be a concrete way to feel I know what to do when things happen - learn when to call for help - and track problems over time for a reality check.
Yesterday was a real challenge to me emotionally - I was home from work b/c I was sick - had no one to help me - the computor was no consolation b/c it wasn't working - the new printer I bought didn't work and when I called my son who set it up - he didn't respond - my daughter is packing to return to school and had her own frustrations - I discovered the new lock I put on the fence in the back was broken and the people who clean the carpet want everything moved or put away - great more moving!
It all seems like little stuff but I understand better now through this reading how it relates to my past. Between the loss of one parent and abuse/neglect from the other I never felt that I had anyone to lean on. I still feel deep down that someone should be there for me to help out. I get angry when no one is there. I get jealous of people who have parents and spouses or adult/indep children to help out. Didn't realize until now where that feeling came from and to understand that it is biologically encoded in me I get that it will take time and activity on my part to change it. (like the log)(just filling it out for the past month I can see how much I figured out to do and who I can call to fix things when needed)
Mindfulness and yoga - I now know why they work for me.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
It all seems like little stuff but I understand better now through this reading how it relates to my past. Between the loss of one parent and abuse/neglect from the other I never felt that I had anyone to lean on. I still feel deep down that someone should be there for me to help out. I get angry when no one is there. I get jealous of people who have parents and spouses or adult/indep children to help out. Didn't realize until now where that feeling came from and to understand that it is biologically encoded in me I get that it will take time and activity on my part to change it. (like the log)(just filling it out for the past month I can see how much I figured out to do and who I can call to fix things when needed)
Mindfulness and yoga - I now know why they work for me.
Mindfulness and yoga - I now know why they work for me.
The log is a great idea. Mindfulness and yoga. I must look into these more. I know there is a channel on my cable network that has a beginners class early in the morning.
Great idea.
Thank you
Beth
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 985
Wicked - not only is the log helpful - I have learned to ask my neighbors who they hire and got a wonderful handyman for many of the little things around the house - he is so reasonable and always available - and he even talks to you. I also learned one night when I posted a problem here in the forums that I got a great list of ideas and agencies to help which just showed me that while there may not be anyone in my house - or family - there is always someone who has what you need if you just ask - (altho in my life -that is one of my badly needed changes - to ask for help and the other is to be patient about when it comes)
The yoga you can get DVD for intro which is usually a good place to start or I bought a book someone let me borrow for awhile. Both were available at my library until I could afford to buy them.
Learned last week attending a conference that when you do something physical like exercise or sit and pay attention to what is going on around you that you stop your mind from running away with the **** stuff. That is what is mentioned in the book and now I understand why it works.
This weekend will be especially difficult as I take my daughter back to college and will again be all alone at home. Last year it was a terrible adjustment - I never knew my house made so many noises. And my AH who is not talking to me was nice to me the other day and it felt like the good old times which confused me more. I am such a mess!
Time to sit out in the sun and let the healing come.
The yoga you can get DVD for intro which is usually a good place to start or I bought a book someone let me borrow for awhile. Both were available at my library until I could afford to buy them.
Learned last week attending a conference that when you do something physical like exercise or sit and pay attention to what is going on around you that you stop your mind from running away with the **** stuff. That is what is mentioned in the book and now I understand why it works.
This weekend will be especially difficult as I take my daughter back to college and will again be all alone at home. Last year it was a terrible adjustment - I never knew my house made so many noises. And my AH who is not talking to me was nice to me the other day and it felt like the good old times which confused me more. I am such a mess!
Time to sit out in the sun and let the healing come.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
yes, i am very interested in doing yoga.
and i will feel accountable if someone else is doing it too.
oh, and asking for help. oh my goodness, that has been a problem for me for a long time. i am getting better, much better. and i have noticed that people want to help if they can. amazing.
and i will feel accountable if someone else is doing it too.
oh, and asking for help. oh my goodness, that has been a problem for me for a long time. i am getting better, much better. and i have noticed that people want to help if they can. amazing.
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