The Magical Thinking Zone
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Originally Posted by nodaybut2day 
Not to sound like a total snob, but *most* pop music is generated in that Magical Thinking Zone. If you REALLY listen--especially from a codie perspective, it makes you want to just turn off the radio for good.
"I would do anything for love"
"And I....will always love you"
"I will be right here waiting for you"
"Everything I do, I do it for you".
It can get desperate:
"All by myself...don't wanna be, all by myself anymore!"
And it can get scary:
"Every breath you take, every move you make, I'll be watching you"
I can't listen to music anymore!!
"I would do anything for love"
"And I....will always love you"
"I will be right here waiting for you"
"Everything I do, I do it for you".
It can get desperate:
"All by myself...don't wanna be, all by myself anymore!"
And it can get scary:
"Every breath you take, every move you make, I'll be watching you"
I can't listen to music anymore!!
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That reminds me of the South Park episode where Cartman became a Christian rock singer. He'd just take regular love songs and replace "baby" and stuff with "Jesus." So in some of the songs, he's be singing about making sweet love to Jesus. It was classic. 
Curled up in a good book...
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live
Another magical thinking example I have been fighting lately: If I BUY some product, my skin will look younger!!! I have really had to hold back on this one and start accepting that I am aging and no product is going to magically make me look 10 years younger.
To thine own self be true.
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This thread really has me thinking today for some reason! I just remembered how before Recovery, I honestly believed that movie stars and other financially-successful people actually knew something I did not! I remember starting to come to this realization and wondering how the hell did I come to believe such a stupid thing??? Same thing with the soulmate BS. Where on earth did that come from? Because my parents certainly did not instill that in me. And like Bookwyrm said, an entire INDUSTRY is dependent on our magical thinking! I feel like there is this vast economic conspiracy or something that WANTS me to believe in total BS.
I wonder if that is the way it is for alcohol and cigarette sales too? Does anyone believe the beer and cigarette ads? Ever count the number of establishments that sell alcohol within five miles of your home?
Am I sounding paranoid? Sorry if I went OT or hijacked this thread-a little excited today
I wonder if that is the way it is for alcohol and cigarette sales too? Does anyone believe the beer and cigarette ads? Ever count the number of establishments that sell alcohol within five miles of your home?
Am I sounding paranoid? Sorry if I went OT or hijacked this thread-a little excited today
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Magical Thinking
I was so dumb about sex, marriage, family life, & babies when I got married. I was a fast learner though...my Magical Thinking was the white picket fence type with a handsome husband that was hard working & never swore!
Surreal for sure. We married three months after we met. He had two boys that he had visitations with every weekend. Their Mother did not take good care of them so moved in with her parents so she had a permanent sitter for the boys while she chased the guys. I knew her reputation before I met my H but didn't know her.
Then in three years we had a one year old daughter & my H was critically injured in a logging accident & had to have his left leg amputated to save his life. He had gas gangerene in it. He was in the hospital seven months & had some 17 surgeries to put him back together again. He had special duty nurses around the clock the first month.
This was not Magical Thinking...this was real life. He was 26 & I was 23. We have had other catastofic things happen & I could make it through the initial event & then I would fall apart. This was the begining of my drinking to cover my pain & grief.
kelsh
Surreal for sure. We married three months after we met. He had two boys that he had visitations with every weekend. Their Mother did not take good care of them so moved in with her parents so she had a permanent sitter for the boys while she chased the guys. I knew her reputation before I met my H but didn't know her.
Then in three years we had a one year old daughter & my H was critically injured in a logging accident & had to have his left leg amputated to save his life. He had gas gangerene in it. He was in the hospital seven months & had some 17 surgeries to put him back together again. He had special duty nurses around the clock the first month.
This was not Magical Thinking...this was real life. He was 26 & I was 23. We have had other catastofic things happen & I could make it through the initial event & then I would fall apart. This was the begining of my drinking to cover my pain & grief.
kelsh
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Bookwyrm has it exactly right. Neuroses are the foundation of our capitalist culture. There are millions of people employed around the world to make us think that we are lacking something so that we will buy their product or service to fulfill that need. And then they come out with a new, improved version so that we dump the product that they tried so hard to sell us last time and buy the new one.
I didn't need to dump everything that is great about this world in which I live. I just needed a more discerning eye.
I didn't need to dump everything that is great about this world in which I live. I just needed a more discerning eye.
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Originally Posted by Bolina
Bookwyrm has it exactly right. Neuroses are the foundation of our capitalist culture. There are millions of people employed around the world to make us think that we are lacking something so that we will buy their product or service to fulfill that need. And then they come out with a new, improved version so that we dump the product that they tried so hard to sell us last time and buy the new one.
I didn't need to dump everything that is great about this world in which I live. I just needed a more discerning eye.
I didn't need to dump everything that is great about this world in which I live. I just needed a more discerning eye.
For me I tend to look at it... that if WE had stronger self esteem... we wouldn't buy into the bs line of crap. Back in the 70's advertisers used to hide images of couples in ice cubes... in liquor ads... and there still remains a ton of subliminal suggestions in advertising for our lil brains to cipher..... Every person and/or object in advertising is there on purpose... and advertising today caters to our "magical thinking"... you just have to be aware of it. Look at a perfume commercial... it's hot woman meets hot man... gets hot man... they live happily ever after.... and it simply isn't so.
Our society/culture constantly confuses quantity with quality .... We do have the CHOICE to just say "Nah... not today"... thanks but no thanks.... my hair, nails, skin, clothes, etc. are just fine.
Trends are trends they come and go... hopefully we all can learn that most of them we can do without.
Our American Fore Fathers didn't buy into "I need this" attitude... because most of them knew what they were made of.... and if they needed it... they made it by hand. I know many older folks have laughed off many "sales pitches" and said something like.... "Yeah and I have an ocean front property for sale".
((Hugs))
Curled up in a good book...
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Interesting point of view hammerhead...
I do think the advertising industry has seriously ramped things up over the years. It would be extremely difficult to not be affected by it! Have a look here to see how effective marketing has become...Even a 3-year-old knows power of a logo - Health - Behavior - msnbc.com Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies Scary.
I do think the advertising industry has seriously ramped things up over the years. It would be extremely difficult to not be affected by it! Have a look here to see how effective marketing has become...Even a 3-year-old knows power of a logo - Health - Behavior - msnbc.com Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies Scary.
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I met my Dh when I was 16 and we have been together 28 years 27 married and for me there is no fantasies about it. love doen't fix everything however having someone to share the ups and downs of life with helps tremendously. you can call it what ever you want but I feel most relationships don't last long enough to earn the right to be reffered to as "soul mate" "one true love " and so on. at 16 everything was magical. he was magical and he was my best Friend and still is. the one thing I do know is we went through hell and back together and instead of growing apart we grew together.
everything in life takes effort, mutual respect and tons of understanding and patience.
you can dream, you can have a fantasy and still live in the real world.
jm .02
everything in life takes effort, mutual respect and tons of understanding and patience.
you can dream, you can have a fantasy and still live in the real world.
jm .02
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Our American Fore Fathers didn't buy into "I need this" attitude
Harking back to a glolden age where they had got things "right" and the sense that there is a progressive decline in cultural values is a potent form of magical thinking in my opinion. Crime is a classic example, "simpler values" and lack of culturally driven "wants" (as opposed to real needs) is another.
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Originally Posted by 1lastchance
I met my Dh when I was 16 and we have been together 28 years 27 married and for me there is no fantasies about it. love doen't fix everything however having someone to share the ups and downs of life with helps tremendously. you can call it what ever you want but I feel most relationships don't last long enough to earn the right to be reffered to as "soul mate" "one true love " and so on. at 16 everything was magical. he was magical and he was my best Friend and still is. the one thing I do know is we went through hell and back together and instead of growing apart we grew together.
everything in life takes effort, mutual respect and tons of understanding and patience.
you can dream, you can have a fantasy and still live in the real world.
jm .02
everything in life takes effort, mutual respect and tons of understanding and patience.
you can dream, you can have a fantasy and still live in the real world.
jm .02
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Originally Posted by bookwyrm
Interesting point of view hammerhead...
I do think the advertising industry has seriously ramped things up over the years. It would be extremely difficult to not be affected by it! Have a look here to see how effective marketing has become...Even a 3-year-old knows power of a logo - Health - Behavior - msnbc.com Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies Scary.
I do think the advertising industry has seriously ramped things up over the years. It would be extremely difficult to not be affected by it! Have a look here to see how effective marketing has become...Even a 3-year-old knows power of a logo - Health - Behavior - msnbc.com Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies Scary.
However, I do tend to be drawn toward home decorating magazines, architectural magazines and I am clearly obsessed with having 'the' beautiful home. Having said that... I understand that having a perfectly matched kitchen does not make me perfect. For example... the latest trend is for everyone to have stainless steel appliances... and boy if you don't have them you are most certainly living in a cave.... whoop tee doo. Don't get me wrong I think stainless steel appliances are gorgeous... especially restaurant grade.... but heck I don't have one stainless steel appliance in my home... I do not buy into the argument that I MUST HAVE ONE or I'm a piece of crap.
Perhaps you can see where I'm going with this... just because Gisele Bundchen thinks it's cool to wear underwear with the communist dictator Chavez doesn't mean I have to have the same pair of underwear.... or heaven forbid... someone NOT like me. I have values and find it abhorrent that anyone would even think of putting Chavez (who killed millions of people) on their underwear and call it "cool"... so I choose NOT to buy them.
I appreciate all kinds of beauty and I know what I am capable of and not capable of. As for the child recognizing a logo... well the child isn't purchasing the item... the parent obviously is... children are impacted by what they see. Heck look at MTV music videos... everybody has a Hummer and a Ho.... so now we see kids pandering dope so they can have a Hummer and a Ho. Our society is sending out the wrong message... but we have the choice to NOT buy into it.
I remember as a child my parents would not let me watch tv and I'm thankful for that... instead of whining about it... I picked up reading.
Our culture definitely gravitates toward material items to fill the "gaping holes" of our personal wounds... nothing material will ever fix that... that takes personal work...
Sorry if it seems I rambled on a bit... hard to put years of observation into a few sentences.
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Originally Posted by JenT1968
I agree with the thrust of your argument although the sheer volume of advertising is hard to resist, culture shapes our brain development. the above though I disagree with, there was a whole heap of "keeping up with the Jones's" evident in that culture, the emphasis may have been different but it was certainly there.
Harking back to a glolden age where they had got things "right" and the sense that there is a progressive decline in cultural values is a potent form of magical thinking in my opinion. Crime is a classic example, "simpler values" and lack of culturally driven "wants" (as opposed to real needs) is another.
Harking back to a glolden age where they had got things "right" and the sense that there is a progressive decline in cultural values is a potent form of magical thinking in my opinion. Crime is a classic example, "simpler values" and lack of culturally driven "wants" (as opposed to real needs) is another.
Crime is evil... evil has always existed. Crime and corruption without consequences is what currently shapes our society... i.e. how many times must a drunk driver go to jail... be released only to recommit the crime? How many times must a drug peddler go to jail and have a rotten attorney get him/her off because of a technicality? Pedophiles go free because of a technicality... it sickens me.
In my opinion the foundation of America (freedom of choice) was not magical thinking... it worked... it just so happens we have had 200+ years of tweaking by a bunch of 'progressive' idiots that decided to rewrite text books to tell us a different story.... so first we must learn the TRUTH and if we don't learn from that... how do we learn?
As in our personal lives (especially here at SR) we know that history is the best predictor of future behavior...of course... unless it's been rewritten.... but ultimately we are free to choose how we want to live.
To buy something because we need it... is freedom of choice.
To buy a product because someone suggests it will give us xyz results (you'll be popular, etc.)... that is marketing. That in my opinion is magical thinking at its height.
To thine own self be true.
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I think the point is, to continue to engage in such thinking is to be just as much in denial as the alcoholic. For me, the principles of Recovery span all areas of my life. I cannot open my eyes to past ways of alcoholic, diseased and magical thinking as it applies to my romantic relationships without also opening my eyes to how I think in these ways in all of my relationships, including those with myself and with my Higher Power.
This topic is less about marketing, politics, and history to me than it is about opening my eyes, recognizing where I have been fooling myself, owning my side of the street and making changes where I am able to make changes.
This topic is less about marketing, politics, and history to me than it is about opening my eyes, recognizing where I have been fooling myself, owning my side of the street and making changes where I am able to make changes.
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live
I think the point is, to continue to engage in such thinking is to be just as much in denial as the alcoholic. For me, the principles of Recovery span all areas of my life. I cannot open my eyes to past ways of alcoholic, diseased and magical thinking as it applies to my romantic relationships without also opening my eyes to how I think in these ways in all of my relationships, including those with myself and with my Higher Power.
This topic is less about marketing, politics, and history to me than it is about opening my eyes, recognizing where I have been fooling myself, owning my side of the street and making changes where I am able to make changes.
This topic is less about marketing, politics, and history to me than it is about opening my eyes, recognizing where I have been fooling myself, owning my side of the street and making changes where I am able to make changes.
That's why I love one of my signature lines... (not sure who said it) "The eyes see only what the mind is prepared to comprehend".
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
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This topic is less about marketing, politics, and history to me than it is about opening my eyes, recognizing where I have been fooling myself, owning my side of the street and making changes where I am able to make changes.
Curled up in a good book...
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Sorry for wandering with the topic FD. It just got me thinking. I wonder at hammerhead's statement that she isn't affected by today's society, that she can just say 'no' to all the messages about who we ought to be that we are bombarded with from a very early age. That her self esteem is such that she is not seduced by the Magical Thinking Zone. Hammerhead, maybe I'm just not picking you up right.
I feel we are taught from a very early age how to be adults in our society from our parents, from our peers and, increasingly, from advertising, TV and other media. Even reading isn't an escape from the 'Prince Charming' syndrome and cardboard cut out princesses. I wonder how you managed to avoid being affected by all of this during your developmental years.
I feel we are taught from a very early age how to be adults in our society from our parents, from our peers and, increasingly, from advertising, TV and other media. Even reading isn't an escape from the 'Prince Charming' syndrome and cardboard cut out princesses. I wonder how you managed to avoid being affected by all of this during your developmental years.
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Originally Posted by bookwyrm
Sorry for wandering with the topic FD. It just got me thinking. I wonder at hammerhead's statement that she isn't affected by today's society, that she can just say 'no' to all the messages about who we ought to be that we are bombarded with from a very early age. That her self esteem is such that she is not seduced by the Magical Thinking Zone. Hammerhead, maybe I'm just not picking you up right.
I feel we are taught from a very early age how to be adults in our society from our parents, from our peers and, increasingly, from advertising, TV and other media. Even reading isn't an escape from the 'Prince Charming' syndrome and cardboard cut out princesses. I wonder how you managed to avoid being affected by all of this during your developmental years.
I feel we are taught from a very early age how to be adults in our society from our parents, from our peers and, increasingly, from advertising, TV and other media. Even reading isn't an escape from the 'Prince Charming' syndrome and cardboard cut out princesses. I wonder how you managed to avoid being affected by all of this during your developmental years.
Capitalism is... economic
Magical Thinking is.... if only others would act right, (if the product would perform) I would be happy.
***
Oh Bookwyrm... I've had my dance with magical thinking... I was married to a raging addict/alcoholic... I wished many times that he'd just quit and do the right thing... that he would stop.... if I would do x,y, and z.
He never stopped drinking or using We divorced.
I cannot blame the failure of my marriage or any relationship failure on capitalism... not now... not ever.
You're absolutely right my reading did not save me from 'Prince Charming' or from any cut outs.
I'm curious why you feel so powerless against an advertisement?
Advertisements (IMO) are suggestions... it doesn't mean you have to. Sure a company would like to have you buy their product... it's up to you how you spend your money. If you like the product... it's win/win. If you buy a product to feel accepted by another person... then there are deeper issues at play.
If child rearing is being conducted by television programming, advertisements or other media and NOT by parents... that scares me. Are parents not instilling values in their children anymore?
Am I making any sense?
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