Codependent No More Book Study: Chap. 17 - COMMUNICATION
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Codependent No More Book Study: Chap. 17 - COMMUNICATION Link to Previous Chapters: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2576356
Chapter 18 - To go up Saturday Morning (If not, may a thousand birds poop on my head)
Codependent No More:
How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself
How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself
By Melodie Beattie
Book Study
CHAPTER 17 - Communication
CHAPTER 17 - Communication
Chapter 18 - To go up Saturday Morning (If not, may a thousand birds poop on my head)
Go ask the Multivax
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Synopsis:
This chapter begins with an example of how codependents communicate. The dialogues can be found here (there is a page missing, as it's just a book preview site, however, we get the point): Click the link to go directly to chapter 17.
Codependent no more: how to stop ... - Google Books
Melodie explains that many codependents have poor, POOR communication skills. We are tricky. We carefully chose words to manipulate, people please, control, cover-up, and alleviate guilt. We laugh when we really want to cry and say we're fine when we are not. "Codependents are indirect. We don't say what we mean, we don't mean what we'll say".
She explains that we really don't do this on purpose, we were taught to communicate in this manner. She refers to another book Why Am I Afraid to Tell You Who I really Am? by John Powell. We each have our own answer but it tends to boil down to "Because I am all I've got". We are afraid of being rejected. We ultimately believe that it is not okay to be who we are. We do not tend to like ourselves or trust ourselves. This carries over to communication.
In order to communicate properly, we need to learn that it is okay to be who we are. Our thoughts and feelings are okay. Our opinions matter. It's okay to say no and it's okay to discuss problems. Instead of saying "no" we tend to say things like "I don't think so" or "maybe" She asks us to now say "no" ten times in a row. "Say what you mean, and mean what you say. If you're not sure, take some time to think it over" If our answer is "I don't know" then we need to say it. We need to talk about problems without feeling like we are betraying someone in our life. We need to share secrets with close trusted friends (reminds me of the 'ol "Secrets make us sick saying").
We need to remember it is okay to discuss our feelings. It's also okay to say what we think. Directly. We should practive beginning with "This is what I think...". And then, we can even be wrong, and that's okay too. Needs and wants: We should practice saying "This is what I need from you...." and "This is what I want from you..." another key communication tool, to stop ourselves from being manipulated or controlled:
"I love you, but I love me, too. This is what I need to do to take care of ME...."
We can be assertive and say "This is as far as I go. This is my limit. I will not tolerate this." We can show compassion by saying things like "Sounds like you're having a problem. What do you need from me?" We need to also learn to say "I'm sorry you are having that problem" and let it go, without trying to fix it. We also need to learn to settle with just being listened to when it comes to our own problems. Without expecting or trying to get someone to rescue us.
She explains that "talking is a tool and delight". It enables us to understand others and to be understood by others. It allows us to get messages to people. Sometimes it leads to closeness and intimacy. We all need to share and be close. "Let our words reflect high self-esteem and esteem for others". Above all, we need to say what we mean and mean what we say. She closes with this:
ACTIVITIES:
Only one for this chapter. It's a doozy:
1.) Read these books:
Why am I afraid to Tell You Who I Am - John Powell
How to be an Assertive, not Aggressive Woman in Life, Love, and on the Job - Jean Baer (excellent for men too).
This chapter begins with an example of how codependents communicate. The dialogues can be found here (there is a page missing, as it's just a book preview site, however, we get the point): Click the link to go directly to chapter 17.
Codependent no more: how to stop ... - Google Books
Melodie explains that many codependents have poor, POOR communication skills. We are tricky. We carefully chose words to manipulate, people please, control, cover-up, and alleviate guilt. We laugh when we really want to cry and say we're fine when we are not. "Codependents are indirect. We don't say what we mean, we don't mean what we'll say".
She explains that we really don't do this on purpose, we were taught to communicate in this manner. She refers to another book Why Am I Afraid to Tell You Who I really Am? by John Powell. We each have our own answer but it tends to boil down to "Because I am all I've got". We are afraid of being rejected. We ultimately believe that it is not okay to be who we are. We do not tend to like ourselves or trust ourselves. This carries over to communication.
In order to communicate properly, we need to learn that it is okay to be who we are. Our thoughts and feelings are okay. Our opinions matter. It's okay to say no and it's okay to discuss problems. Instead of saying "no" we tend to say things like "I don't think so" or "maybe" She asks us to now say "no" ten times in a row. "Say what you mean, and mean what you say. If you're not sure, take some time to think it over" If our answer is "I don't know" then we need to say it. We need to talk about problems without feeling like we are betraying someone in our life. We need to share secrets with close trusted friends (reminds me of the 'ol "Secrets make us sick saying").
We need to remember it is okay to discuss our feelings. It's also okay to say what we think. Directly. We should practive beginning with "This is what I think...". And then, we can even be wrong, and that's okay too. Needs and wants: We should practice saying "This is what I need from you...." and "This is what I want from you..." another key communication tool, to stop ourselves from being manipulated or controlled:
"I love you, but I love me, too. This is what I need to do to take care of ME...."
We can be assertive and say "This is as far as I go. This is my limit. I will not tolerate this." We can show compassion by saying things like "Sounds like you're having a problem. What do you need from me?" We need to also learn to say "I'm sorry you are having that problem" and let it go, without trying to fix it. We also need to learn to settle with just being listened to when it comes to our own problems. Without expecting or trying to get someone to rescue us.
She explains that "talking is a tool and delight". It enables us to understand others and to be understood by others. It allows us to get messages to people. Sometimes it leads to closeness and intimacy. We all need to share and be close. "Let our words reflect high self-esteem and esteem for others". Above all, we need to say what we mean and mean what we say. She closes with this:
In love and dignity, speak the truth - as we think, feel, and know it - and it shall set us free.
ACTIVITIES:
Only one for this chapter. It's a doozy:
1.) Read these books:
Why am I afraid to Tell You Who I Am - John Powell
How to be an Assertive, not Aggressive Woman in Life, Love, and on the Job - Jean Baer (excellent for men too).
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Chapter 18 - To go up Saturday Morning (If not, may a thousand birds poop on my head)
no, i don't want a thousands birds pooping on your head.
i am reading right now, i like to think communicating is one of my strengths, maybe not.
sigh.......
obtuse? indirect? uh, yeah.
Beth
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 215
Not going to make it to my noon alanon and was reading this and deteremined "this" is my little meeting! yay! Just exactly what I needed today. Dont be afraid to show and share who you are. I love the part about starting with a "this is what I think..." This sis what I would like..." Because for me before ANYTHING comes out of my mouth I self-censor it with thoughts about What will he/she think about what I have to say?" And as a results I don't say anything.
I come across as easy to please much of the time, agreeable, tolerant, etc. But what i am really doing is losing myself and my own opinions and opting for say or do nothing. Then everntually resentment builds up toward the other person - I somewhow blame them when really its my fault that I have not spoken up in the first place.
Yes I fear rejection, I fear that my thoughts will not nec line up with the other persons thoughts and that this wooul be a bad thing. They may not like me for what I say or do. Its fear of rejection or as being seen as different.
Communicating better with my husband is absolutely essential for me right now. That he doesnt really knwo or understand how I feel about some things is unfair to him and is hurting the relationship.
I come across as easy to please much of the time, agreeable, tolerant, etc. But what i am really doing is losing myself and my own opinions and opting for say or do nothing. Then everntually resentment builds up toward the other person - I somewhow blame them when really its my fault that I have not spoken up in the first place.
Yes I fear rejection, I fear that my thoughts will not nec line up with the other persons thoughts and that this wooul be a bad thing. They may not like me for what I say or do. Its fear of rejection or as being seen as different.
Communicating better with my husband is absolutely essential for me right now. That he doesnt really knwo or understand how I feel about some things is unfair to him and is hurting the relationship.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
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I liked, "Stop talking people around the block."
I think it would quite a project to answer questions with "yes" or "no" first off. It seems so...bold! LOL!
A friend said today, "Don't I have to explain all my feelings if I set a boundary?"
I know that feeling! I told her no! You can just say what you want or don't want and you don't HAVE to hash it out, if you don't want to!
This chapter makes it sound easy, but I struggle with KNOWING my feelings or knowing I am trying to please, shoving my needs away, ignoring my discomfort, ignoring my feelings, being passive aggressive, etc.
If I start a tough conversation with my hubby, I may be able to hold on to awareness throughout it, but if it turns awkward or uncomfortable or defensive/aggressive and I am caught unawares, I tend to go on autopilot.
More work to do...
I think it would quite a project to answer questions with "yes" or "no" first off. It seems so...bold! LOL!
A friend said today, "Don't I have to explain all my feelings if I set a boundary?"
I know that feeling! I told her no! You can just say what you want or don't want and you don't HAVE to hash it out, if you don't want to!
This chapter makes it sound easy, but I struggle with KNOWING my feelings or knowing I am trying to please, shoving my needs away, ignoring my discomfort, ignoring my feelings, being passive aggressive, etc.
If I start a tough conversation with my hubby, I may be able to hold on to awareness throughout it, but if it turns awkward or uncomfortable or defensive/aggressive and I am caught unawares, I tend to go on autopilot.
More work to do...
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 194
""Melodie explains that many codependents have poor, POOR communication skills. We are tricky. We carefully chose words to manipulate, people please, control, cover-up, and alleviate guilt. We laugh when we really want to cry and say we're fine when we are not. "Codependents are indirect. We don't say what we mean, we don't mean what we'll say". ""
I am currently living with my mother (core issue!!!) and it's been interesting to observe her from the recovery perspective (when I can actually get out of my head and step back to be the observer!). I can actually SEE how poorly she communicates, tries to cover-up, control situations, is not direct AT ALL in anything she says. It's no wonder I am the same way! Despite trying so hard since I was a teenager NOT TO BECOME MY MOTHER... I in fact... have. In areas I wasn't even aware of. So as hard as it is to live with her... it's that proverbial blessing in disguise.
I've been working very hard on improving my communication skills, at actually saying what it is I mean to say. At being direct instead of beating around the bush. It takes practice and is a bit frightening as others have said. What? Me actually come out and say what I want/feel, etc.? Won't they reject me? And surprise surprise... some may, but most won't. In fact... things are actually better when I'm upfront about things. But what really matters is that... in the end... I end up feeling mighty good about me. Because by communicating openly and directly... I take care of me.
As I've learned in recovery... just as I have the right to accept what others say/feel/do... others have the same right regarding me. I just need to remember that!
peace.
e
I am currently living with my mother (core issue!!!) and it's been interesting to observe her from the recovery perspective (when I can actually get out of my head and step back to be the observer!). I can actually SEE how poorly she communicates, tries to cover-up, control situations, is not direct AT ALL in anything she says. It's no wonder I am the same way! Despite trying so hard since I was a teenager NOT TO BECOME MY MOTHER... I in fact... have. In areas I wasn't even aware of. So as hard as it is to live with her... it's that proverbial blessing in disguise.
I've been working very hard on improving my communication skills, at actually saying what it is I mean to say. At being direct instead of beating around the bush. It takes practice and is a bit frightening as others have said. What? Me actually come out and say what I want/feel, etc.? Won't they reject me? And surprise surprise... some may, but most won't. In fact... things are actually better when I'm upfront about things. But what really matters is that... in the end... I end up feeling mighty good about me. Because by communicating openly and directly... I take care of me.
As I've learned in recovery... just as I have the right to accept what others say/feel/do... others have the same right regarding me. I just need to remember that!
peace.
e
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 132
This is a big issue for me...and unfortunately I do tend to *date* people who disapprove of or abandon me for expressing my feelings.
I recently got out of a short mini relationship (that never progressed to intimacy) with a recovering A who talked the talk of recovery, openness, honesty in the beginning. He put a lot of pressure on me to be physically intimate before I was ready, didn't show up enough and used text messaging and calling as a way to simulate being present, when in reality if I saw him once a week that was a lot. I had finally gotten to the point where I was ready to start talking about taking the relationship up a notch which he had been pressuring me to do. So what happens? We have an open, honest discussion about sex...and he poofs. Completely backs off. Stops calling and does not make any more plans to see each other.
It was huge progress for me to wait until the person could prove what they were saying before getting closer, to not let empty words and wishful thinking cloud my view...but I still struggle with the feelings of being punished for opening up. I've had to learn that yes, more than half the time when I express my feelings there will be immediate negative consequences.
In situations like work it's difficult to be open and honest because women just don't do that, IMO. If I tell my boss he is wrong, it just makes him angry and even when he is it takes months for him to admit it and by then whatever it is I said would happen has already played out. Culturally we do not encourage women to be vocal, we do not like it.
I have decided recently that honesty is more important than everything else, even with negative consequences, because if I keep censoring myself my true self never comes to be. I've done that too long. I just have to detach myself from what happens as a result. Eventually I will find a balance, and I'm fairly certain that the only people who will still be around are the people who can handle the truth!
I recently got out of a short mini relationship (that never progressed to intimacy) with a recovering A who talked the talk of recovery, openness, honesty in the beginning. He put a lot of pressure on me to be physically intimate before I was ready, didn't show up enough and used text messaging and calling as a way to simulate being present, when in reality if I saw him once a week that was a lot. I had finally gotten to the point where I was ready to start talking about taking the relationship up a notch which he had been pressuring me to do. So what happens? We have an open, honest discussion about sex...and he poofs. Completely backs off. Stops calling and does not make any more plans to see each other.
It was huge progress for me to wait until the person could prove what they were saying before getting closer, to not let empty words and wishful thinking cloud my view...but I still struggle with the feelings of being punished for opening up. I've had to learn that yes, more than half the time when I express my feelings there will be immediate negative consequences.
In situations like work it's difficult to be open and honest because women just don't do that, IMO. If I tell my boss he is wrong, it just makes him angry and even when he is it takes months for him to admit it and by then whatever it is I said would happen has already played out. Culturally we do not encourage women to be vocal, we do not like it.
I have decided recently that honesty is more important than everything else, even with negative consequences, because if I keep censoring myself my true self never comes to be. I've done that too long. I just have to detach myself from what happens as a result. Eventually I will find a balance, and I'm fairly certain that the only people who will still be around are the people who can handle the truth!
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 194
This particular chapter is helping not only with my communication by also how I respond to others. I just realized that it's not only what is said, but also how it's said, i.e. tone of voice. Once again using my mom as my mirror... she tends to be not only highly judgemental but her tone of voice is very sharp. She triggers me almost constantly, between judgement, passive/aggressive and tone of voice... she almost always sounds accusing, demanding. I used to have a boss like that, there was no pleasing her, and I was constantly triggered. (Like the boss in The Devil Wears Prada. Could've been my story verbatim!). I used to think that recovery would help me blow off these types of triggers. But if they are constant... I can't. And maybe with recovery I'm realizing that in those instances... it's ok to walk away and not engage in that dysfunctional type of communication, remove myself from those constant triggers. Meanwhile... I'll continue to work on my own communication skills: being direct. Say what I mean and mean what I say. And definitely watching my tone of voice, although in that regard, I know I've gone the opposite direction so maybe I need to be a little more firm sometimes. It's all a balancing act!
thanks for the chance to process and help me continue this work.
e
thanks for the chance to process and help me continue this work.
e
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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I realized something yesterday, when someone close to me slights me, I react by critizing them. I won't necessarily be verbal about it. But my thoughts go there. If I go verbal with it, it comes off as constructive. At least that's how my mind goes about rationalizing. But what I'm really doing is a passive aggressive way of cutting them down to the size "I" believe they should be at. <-- Ew.
Yesterday I partook in some people pleasing. Only to find myself miffed about it at the end. Because it was the other person who put me in that predicament to begin with! <- That's the sick thinking. So, my evening was colored just a tad grey. Which has me bugged about me today.
Yesterday I partook in some people pleasing. Only to find myself miffed about it at the end. Because it was the other person who put me in that predicament to begin with! <- That's the sick thinking. So, my evening was colored just a tad grey. Which has me bugged about me today.
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