AnotherAnais

???? Sorry, I don't get the last post. But I grew up in Arkansas, and Mama says we can always plead "ignorance."

Those two statements aren't contradictory. I suspect that he didn't want to deal with ANY of it, and had graduation as a convenient excuse. And I'm glad he's dealing with it now. I wish I hadn't been the impetus for it. You know, there are a lot of people on this board who are putting up with a lot of real trouble and pain. I'm not seeing a lot of SCORN for them.

But what do I know? I'm just a stupid little Asian girl....

Cindi R

Spend some time with him, be happy!
If it feels right in your head, your heart and your gut I'd say "GO FOR IT"!!!
But if after some time if you begin to have some nagging little doubts, see some red flags, get a general sense of unease...
then proceed very slowly towards the next step...
Good luck!
****{Hugs}}}

hbb

We are just speaking from our personal experiences. No one here is stupid at all, and trying to scorn anyone. I hope you have a happy future together.

AnotherAnais

Thank you, Cindi. I'm trying to proceed carefully, if not slowly. All of my bets are hedged. And when I'm with him, I'm quite happy. Not happier than I've been in years, but happier with a relationship than I've been in years. I'm trying to balance between watching for red flags and putting everything under a microscope. The latter is my tendency, and it has its own unfortunate side effects. (Something I learned in my last LTR.) But I always, always go with my gut.

He said, "I wish you had a log of my thoughts, so you could see the blissful weeks that have gone by without a thought of her. But now I'm forced to think about her, and I'll be glad when that's over." Before moving her stuff started, he'd mention talking to her once or twice a month. That's about as often as my ex and I chat or talk on the phone. When he met with her about the move, he told me beforehand he worried it would trigger another bad bout. "I can worry about it but I can't control what she does. She drank when we were together. She drank when she was alone. She drinks."

She's supposed to go back into rehab this coming Saturday.

AnotherAnais

Sorry, hbb. The "Asian" remark was in response to the above, which I interpreted (perhaps wrongly?) as some sort of half-conceived dig. I know that education and geography have very little bearing on emotional intelligence ... and NO bearing on addiction.

NYC_Chick

Another,

I wasn't in any way trying to scorn you for what you are doing. On the flip side of that, if you read through your posts, it seems like both he and you are having to justify what he is doing A LOT. My point being, codies, like alcoholics, will often come up with every viable excuse not to have to face what we know we have to. In this case, it seems to be him letting go of his xgf. You are giving us a snapshot that is showing us the same codie behavior we have all been through ourselves. We have all justified and made excuses based on the fact that we were nice people. The truth is, it has more to do with being codenpendent than being nice.

As for people on this board you feel are getting the soft touch teatment...when I first posted, I was upset by some of the things that were said to me. They were too harsh, too cold, uncaring...you name it. Then I sat and read more carefully. They were none of those things most of the time. They were coming from a place of honesty, experience, and understanding. I just had to be ready to hear them. Justifying my actions isn't going to get me healthy. Sitting back, acknowledging my feelings, and facing what I need to face IS going to get me healthy.

If being in this makes you happy, then by all means, stay in it! Just be sure to keep your eyes open. Actions speak louder than words. I say listen to his words AND his actions and figure it out from there.

denny57

For me, it's simple - TODAY - I wouldn't dream of getting involved with someone whose ex is not completely and I mean LONG GONE out of the picture.

That's just me.

hope2bhappy

If you "know that education and geography have very little bearing on emotional intelligence," then why did you feel this information had some relevance in your earlier posts?

AnotherAnais

To show that I wasn't putting myself at any risk financially and professionally, and that he's not a deadbeat and has success in other areas of his life.

Sorry if I hit some sort of nerve.

PaperDolls

Anais, I don't think you need to apologize for anything. Some of us went through hell because of our codependency so we're passionate about it.

I think everyone here feels the same, that they don't want to see you get hurt. Simple as that.

Also, you asked about how a codependent functions in a relationship without an alcoholic. My answer is, a codependent does not require an alcoholic in order to be codependent.

I hope things work out well for you two.

AnotherAnais

Thank you, PaperDolls. I am going to read more about codependency... it's hard because what I've read so far has been geared to co-dependents who are miserable by their alcoholics ... not about non-alcoholics who are with co-dependents! If he doesn't NEED to make me happy, because I'm already happy ... I wonder what sort of behaviors he'd exhibit.

FormerDoormat

40+ replies all saying the same thing may seem like a waste of time, but eventually I started to really listen to what was being shared and spent some time figuring out how that applied to me. Then, miraculously, on the 500-600th reply, it hit me:

I needed fixing because I am attracted to unavailable partners, I tend to accept unacceptable behavior, and I CAN'T CHANGE ANYONE.

So, round and round we go, saying the same thing over and over again, hoping that the right combination of words will lead to a lightbulb moment.

And you know what? Eventually they do! I appreciate your patience, AnotherAnais. You've stayed the course where many others who've come and gone before you have bailed.

I imagine those who bailed early are still struggling with the same problems that brought them here in the first place. You, however, keep moving forward. That speaks volumes about you.

AnotherAnais

Thanks, FD. I am here to learn, about myself and about others.

This may well be a dangerous statement in this forum, but in both of my 2 LTRs, I changed, and they changed, as a result of our being together. I am NOT talking about addictions. I gather that's an entirely different can of worms. But when I met my first ex (I was very young), he was unemployed and living with his parents. But he was ambitious, and smart, and at the stage where he was ready to grow out of being a f#$%-up. When I left him, he was a millionaire. It's not the ONLY measure of success, but from where he started, it was a big change. (Unfortunately, he was also unwilling to accept the changes (for the better) that *I* was making, because he still wanted the adoring teenager. And that girl, she dead.)

My second ex changed me. A big change was learning to control my temper. He demanded it and he also changed me by example. I changed him by showing him that the world is full of possibilities, and in other ways. (Yes, dear, table manners DO matter....) Couples tend to bring out the best or the worst in each other. My second ex and I are still on very great terms. On a more superficial level than when we were together, but that's appropriate. It was time for both of us to move on.

I've learned a lot from my mistakes. Some changes I've figured out on my own. Some of them I've had pointed out to me. At the end of the day, it was the ones that were pointed out to me that got changed more quickly. We aren't always able to spot unhealthy things instantly in ourselves.

M tells me, and I believe that at least HE believes this, that B's stuff was "just stuff." If there are a whole host of other unhealthy things surrounding that, I'll be able to see them more clearly when that obvious sign is out of the way.

hope2bhappy

No... no nerves hit. Just trying to get through to you. But I do believe that (when first posted) you felt this made a difference in your situation. It doesn't. Many, many of us here are formally educated and are financially and professionally stable, as are/were our partners. Unfortunately, brains, money and career status do not protect us from becoming codependents, or from falling in love with them.

I believe (based solely on my interpretation of your posts) that you are somewhat of a "fixer," yourself. I think you believe you can control the actions of another. I think you are a tad in denial... but that's not really your fault, as this appears to be the first time you have confronted the subject of codependency (much less alcoholism). In your recent study of codependency, I'm wondering if you are seeing any part of yourself in the symptoms.

LaTeeDa

People do change. In fact, it is inevitable. Sometimes people change as a result of something internal, but more often I think, as a result of something external. Life experience changes us and many times those experiences involve other people.

But, and this is the important part, I cannot change someone else. Their changes are entirely up to them, not me. Even if someone changes as a result of my presence in their life, it is not something I have any control over. I cannot mold or shape someone into who I would like them to be. And, I've learned that if I try, it creates resentment in them and resentment in me.

Just using your table manners example for illustration--I can point out to someone that I would prefer them to develop good table manners in social situations. They can then decide to do exactly what I have asked. But, they could also decide to avoid social situations with me. Their choice, not mine. I cannot make them use good table manners. Does that make sense?

L

hope2bhappy

AnotherAnais - There is a good definition of codependency here Codependence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Though it is often seen in relation to alcohol or drug addiction, it is not confined to either of these. Hope this helps.

Pick-a-name

Thought I'd also add FWIW,nor does it protect someone from becoming an alcoholic,either. (Many people I know think having those things both protects you from becoming an alcoholic or it is "proof" you can keep drinking,because you "aren't bad enough to be an alcoholic"). For years,I did not know any better,either so I thought I'd include this. Sorry if it's kinda hijack.

steve11694

Why is concept of a person still loving someone that at one time was very precious to them a problem for some?

what if it were his child he loves, instead of a prior girlfriend? Some people require/demand/insist that the person they have a romantic relationship with cease and desist?

I believe it is insecurity, jealousy, etc etc. Open your heart, your mind, you are all bigger than that. If you care about someone, then continue to care about them, period

AnotherAnais

I talked to a friend of mine, who's a shrink, about the situation while we were catching up today and discussing his wedding. When he stopped laughing, he sent me this link:

Chances Are You're Codependent Too - New York Times

He said, "No doubt, the guy needed a swift kick in the @SS to clean things up with the ex. You told me when you first met him you were talking about your computer, and he gave you a memory card with step-by-step directions for upgrading your RAM. That COULD be called 'codependent.' It could also be called 'being a damned good boyfriend.' If you aren't happy ... you'll call it quits. Don't kick yourself later because you did that for no good reason. And quit psychoanalyzing people through a keyhole. It's hard enough for me to do in an office."

FormerDoormat

I'd be concerned with a "shrink" who sends me a link to an article published 18 years ago. What do you hope to learn or accomplish on this forum?