AnotherAnais

Not really. I was just hoping for information, and maybe validation that this is Not Normal. I'm in love. I'm not INSANE. It's already causing problems between us, obviously. People have enough problems keeping a relationship together without bringing in a metric buttload of baggage.

It seems like what I'm hearing here is that it needs to be her or me. He can choose either way. I'll miss him, but I'll be fine. (In addition to being The Queen of Boundaries, I am also The Mayor of Moving On.)

AnotherAnais

And I'm sorry, it's too late to edit my original post but they did not split up this past November, but the November before that. He has been living alone for more than a year, albeit with her crap in his condo. Until early summer (a few months before he met me) he did hope that she would sober up. But he IS in a really intense graduate program, and he IS a procrastinator. So I'll cut him a little slack for that. But I said when I visited (in October), I am NOT coming back until this space is a Bonnie-free zone. He has, ah, ten days left. She can drink all she wants to, and he can accommodate her jerking his schedule around as long as he likes. But if it's not a Bonnie-free zone, Prince Charming or no Prince Charming, this girl is at the Hilton. And then at the airport.

shakarris

He is not ready in any fashion to start another realtionship as he has yet to heal and resolve his 10 year crazy world, whicch is what we live in with an active A.

i am leaving mine and know very well, that although I want somebody to hold me, arms that care, a nice night out ... I have alot to deal with making me ok so that i can welcome these with a clear and clean heart

It is not a choice of her or you.. he can choose you but he is not healthy enough to make it work the old baggage will creep in one suitcase at a time until he deals with his own issues

jmho

shakarris

vrb

I'm not an alcoholic. No one in my family is an alcoholic, none of my close friends are alcoholics. I've never been involved in a relationship with an alcoholic until 9 months ago. I'm 43 yrs old and have had my fair share of relationships.

But the common thread in my relationships has been finding people that are unavailable. Their common thread is being distracted from something else which makes them - unavailable. A prior relationship, dependency on another person, alcohol, drugs whatever - they are unavailable to themselves and you.

The common thread I have found on this group is that many of us suffer from co-dependency. We were are struggling with how to deal with ourselves, to be strong to step out of a situation that is not meeting our needs and is self destructive. It just so happens that this thread is about the effects of dealing with alcoholism. I nearly gave up a few times (and I am new) because my situation is "over". I am no longer in a relationship so this isn't relevant to me anymore.

I have found the personal stories written here to be more about people dealing with their emotions and learning how to handle asking and stating for what they need. So the application is broader than alcoholism.

Stay a while you may learn about patterns that non alcoholics have and how they deal with others (alcoholics or not) and themselves.

I am finding strength and courage and sometimes peace to get things out here.

V

Barbara52

peaceteach

Hi AnotherAnais,
You sound like a wonderfully strong, independent woman. And the year and a half vs. 3 months confusion does clear things up a bit. It is REALLY hard to walk away from your addict when you are the enabler/codependent. He wants to, but his "nice-guy" naivety is keeping him connected to her. HE needs to do some more work on himself, don't you think? I do see a possible future for the two of you, however, but I'm not sure if he will be able to be strong enough to reach your ultimatum of having all her stuff out. It might be too much pressure for him and he could fail. It's taken a lot of us many years to learn the dynamics of letting go of our addict and putting ourselves first before we know how to have a healthy relationship. And it must be very hard for him to be in such close proximity to her, and not you. I'm not advocating walk away. Codependency is survivable, if you really understand it and have the knowledge and tools to attack it. I would encourage him to delve a little deeper with the therapy and some more reading. He can't save her, yet he still wants the best for her. That's not a bad thing; it's just the way it is. He does deserve a better life. He just has to accept that he's doing himself damage by holding on to this part of his old life. He can't cure her, he can't control her, and he can no longer accept any responsibility for her alcoholism. He needs to do this for HIMSELF. I would encourage him to start anew with his self-discovery and know that this could mean a lifetime of happiness for himself if he is willing to do more work FOR himself.

AnotherAnais

Thanks, peaceteach. I really AM sweet on him ... he's just about everything I ever wanted in a man and I have HIGH standards. It stuns me that he put up with the stuff he did. I'm more than a little awed by how long and how hard he worked to keep that relationship. And, OK, more than a little weirded out. But as a friend of mine said, "Miz Anais, she don't put up with %$#@."

"Naive" is a very good word. Sometimes he seems genuinely bewildered when I'm "WHAT?!?" He has asked me to call him on his %$#@. So, I've got my cards on the table and I am getting ready to call or fold. I really hate issuing ultimatums, but if he can't be without whatever it is he is getting from their relationship ... I can't be with him.

NYC_Chick

I left my alcoholic ex in November like your current bf. I was with my ex for 3.5 years. Much of this was filled with drama. I became addicted to the alcoholic and the chaos of being in that relationship. I'm a codependent, so this is how it happens.

I am by NO MEANS ready to date another person right now because I need to heal from this relationship. I also have VERY limited email contact with my ex when he emails. Starting a relationship now would do a few things. First, set it up to fail because I'm not over my ex. Second, set the other person up for a lot of hurt because I would only be able to offer a limited part of myself. Third, I'm not sure I could pick the right person for me right now because anybody that showed kindness and understanding might be someone I could talk myself into just to heal my own pain. In the long run, I wouldn't be happy and would have spent even more time just being with someone as opposed to finding the right person for me.

I am not trying to be harsh, but it seems to me he's looking for a replacement to get over the xgf. Have you ever heard the expression the best way to get over your ex is to find another person? It seem that is what your bf is doing here.

You also said that you are certain he has nothing to do with his ex romantically. How sure can you be? Unless you are with him 24/7 you don't know what he's really doing despite his reassurances that he's not with her.

To me, he has all the signs of a guy who isn't ready to let go of her. If he was, he would cut off contact, send her stuff back, and call it a day. She is likely aware that he is very close to it, so off she runs to AA to manipulate him. It seems to be working and she knows that. Until he is truly ready to move on, his codependent issues will continue to crop up and she will win over and over again. It's just as hard for us to let go of them as it is for them to let go of us. It's probably harder for us because he don't have another "lover"...alcohol. We need to fall in love with ourselves to fully let go of them IMHO.

Take care of yourself and what you want. Do you really want to be in a relationship with someone that is not fully out of his other relationship? Being in contact with an ex when two people are healthy is one thing, being in contact with your alcoholic ex that you have been in a relationship with for 10 years is quite another.

another thing to keep in mind...ultimatums rarely work. All you would be doing is forcing him into a choice that he may resent you for later.

Good luck to you and follow your gut on this one!

denny57

He may move her "stuff" out but it sounds to me like she will continue to be in his life for a while yet.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

fluffyflea

It absolutely isn't normal what he is doing.

Ngaire

hope2bhappy

With so many hats in your wardrobe (not to mention the crown), you should be just fine. Sounds like you are in complete control and know exactly where you are going in life. Please post again after your trip to update us on the Bonnie situation.

Pick-a-name

Well;I second the great advice you've gotten already.

One "red flag" I see is that you've spent "a little over a month with him...in the past six months" and already you are making plans to move in with him,etc....one month/six months,(either way) even if "she" never existed,that to me is so serious,so quickly. You barely know him,really. And this situation with his ex.........troublesome even if every word is the truth. Actually,it may very well be lies. How do you know? Sounds like the stories my now exAH probably told the woman or two I found he was spending time with when he was looking for a new enabler (and we were living together and had been together 30yrs and he was able to pull a few over on me,since he had been trustworthy up to that point). Actually, I'm guessing that if push comes to shove,their ten year relationship will "trump" your however-many-month-one...especially with their history. You even said yourself, that last year he left her with the hopes she would get help and they would reconcile. He may or may not still be "in love" with her,but he is certainly "not done" And he is a grown man......she is not "making him" do anything.....he decides that.

I'd just caution you to go slowly if you stick around and don't expect much,or get out while the going is good. Consider the past few months a quick lesson. Being around alcoholism and its effects has sucked years out of more than a few of us.

Sorry the the news isn't so great; I know when I got here,I didn't want to hear it....thought we were "different". Well,we are,but the effects of alcoholism are pretty predictable,and most of it is not stuff you want to hear. I found I could ignore it and hope people were wrong (they weren't) or learn and try to make better choices to spare myself some pain,when at all possible.

Maybe if you slow things down,the answers will come clearer and this man will have the chance to actually be able to be in a healthy relationship down the road.....maybe even with you,if you are interested.

Good luck!

FormerDoormat

I'm going to be the odd man out here and say, by all means jump in with both feet. Because it's obvious to me that that's what you intend to do regardless of what anybody here says. And when your prince charming turns out to be a frog I promise I won't say "I told you so," only "welcome to the forum."

AnotherAnais

I appreciate other's experiences but I've written honestly and I can live without snark. If there is an "I told you so," I'll be more than willing to say it myself. In the two long-term relationships that I've been in, I made my mind up very quickly. Those relationships lasted a total of two decades, were mostly very good, and ended because we grew apart and because I decided I was ready to move on. I've also dated a fair number of lovely men, and have no problems avoiding entanglements when it seems things should stay casual. I don't, as I said, know a lot about alcoholism. I do know quite a bit about myself.

When one is in a long-distance relationship where the distance is the Pacific Ocean, the only way to determine viability is to spend time together. I'm in a very fortunate position, financially and professionally, in that my work is portable and my condo sublets easily. So it's less a case of jumping in with both feet than with testing the waters before deciding whether or not this relationship has the potential to be successful for a longer period. For me, living in the same ZIP code is the easiest way to test that.

He broke one of the boundaries he's set today, and spent time with Drunk Bonnie. She was bitter, aggrieved and greedy, but a lot of boxes were packed up. I spoke with him a little while ago, and he said, "This is my fault.... I've been putting it off and putting it off because I knew it would be ugly and painful, and I kept hoping there'd be a sober window where we could do this. There may never be one. And now I've met someone healthy and wonderful, and you're ready to walk."

He's paying the price for that procrastination now. But he's paid A LOT for his actions/reactions over the past few years, and if he can show me what I need to see, I'm not ready to walk just yet. He enabled his alcoholic ex-girlfriend and has allowed himself to be taken advantage of. Those are "cons," big ones. But he's also brilliant, funny, honest, generous, gorgeous and nice to his mother. Those "pros" count for a lot in my book.

Growing

Just my humble opinion with no snark intended:

I know you don't want to hear that this is classic but it is.

He is such a great guy and you want to help him be even better...his graduate program seems very important..."if he can show me what I need to see, I'm not ready to walk just yet."-----I have read this and versions of this here in friends and family, repeatedly.

"he has allowed himself to be taken advantage of."-----red flag.

He has "cons..big ones" but the "pros" count for alot---this and versions of this are pretty classic here on this board.

He has asked you "to call him on his s***".---red flag

He just had a messy and painful meeting with her packing up her stuff...after not living with her for over a year.------red flag

I learned here on SR that I need to be honest and accept people for who they are today...not who they promise to be...or what I wish they would be.

I hope you stick around...keep reading...keep posting...I think you will find you fit in here...and there are a few people here who I think you will identify with.

PaperDolls

Anais- I thought of this over the weekend. I was thinking. He's letting her problems become his problems. You're letting his problems become your problems. Therefore, her problems are yours as well.

I understand when you're in a relationship that's sort of how it works. It's just a matter of how much we're willing to put up with. And what sort of relationship we want.

I can tell you're smart of honest and good communicator. All important for a healthy relationship. I'm sure you'll figure out what's best for you.

I know you're in love and I sincerely hope things work out for the best, for all of you.

AnotherAnais

Thanks, PaperDolls, I appreciate that. I've told him that if he chooses to let her problems be his problems, these are not problems I'll allow in my life. Love or no love. If that's the case, I'll love him, and I'll miss him. There's lots of love in the world.

I do feel the need to say, again, that my boyfriend is not the alcoholic. That would be his ex. He messed up by allowing her to keep her stuff in his condo, and by trying (too hard, IMO,) to be a "nice guy." But he set boundaries with her. When she violated them, he made leave, more than a year ago. One of the reasons he procrastinated splitting up their stuff was because he knew she'd probably be drunk, and he knew it would be painful and messy. So, he avoided it, telling himself he'd deal with it when he sold and moved after graduation. The fact that it *was* painful and messy ... I don't see that as a red flag. I've avoided things that I feared would be painful and messy. (That usually made them worse.) It took me a couple of years to decide to leave my last relationship. I loved the man. I still love the man. But we weren't healthy together, and we are healthy now as friends.

He's dealing with an alcoholic whom he loved for 10 years, and he thought, he hoped, that he meant more to than her vodka. He didn't mean more to her than vodka. Nothing means more to her than vodka.

I didn't say she manipulated him, I said that he ALLOWED her to manipulate him. I'm cutting him very little slack on this, and calling him on his %$#@, while trying to remain empathetic. He went to Al-Anon meetings for 2 years before he took that step. He has honored every commitment he's made to me. Even now, when it's causing considerable stress on his schedule.

I am, at this point, happier being in a relationship with him than without. If that changes, I'll make changes. Whether that's in ten days or ten years remains to be seen. When the status quo gets set on "suck," I change the status quo.

If he shows me what I need to see, why SHOULD I walk? Because he was in a long-term relationship with an alcoholic? I met him when I met him ... when he is in what *appears* to be the final stage of a messy period in his life.

I really do appreciate this board, and I think the support you offer one another is wonderful. I'm glad to have found this community. But I'm not willing to run away from a guy who has treated me well, in the short time we've been together, and who has done what he's told me he'll do. He's a bit of a "fixer," NO DOUBT. But, the thing is ... I don't need fixing. What he's done with that "fixer" energy so far is directed it to being a thoughtful and creative lover. The kind of guy who manipulates the internet so I can watch the NBA at my leisure in Asia. I'm a lucky girl. I'm used to being treated well in my relationships, and I am. If he turns on me, or smothers me, I'm gone. But that won't be ONLY because he has a drunk for an ex.

He'll choose her problems, or he'll choose me. (And MY problems, LOL.) His choice should become apparent in the very near future.

hbb

Another, welcome to SR. Miss Pink is EXACTLY RIGHT here. You don't want to go through this. If i can give any advice it's to RUN. I, over the Summer found that my exabf was not done with his exgf. They were together 8 years, he an alcoholic, her into heavy drugs, broken up for over a year when we met......doesn't matter. He NEVER got over her. Please, please take things slow and take care of you first and foremost. Read my history, it's similar. He went back to her and i SWORE they were done, not even a consideration in my head.

FormerDoormat

When snark was perceived where none was provided that usually indicates that a comment hit way too close for comfort. In cases like these, I've learned that I need to look closely at the item that annoyed me. Sometimes the glare from my crown kept me from seeing the truth. I've since ditched that crown because I realize that I don't know everything, it was holding me back, and it wasn't very becoming.

LaTeeDa

One of the lessons I've learned, although it took me quite a while to learn it, is that going in to a relationship based on my perception of another person's potential is a recipe for disaster. If I cannot accept someone exactly as they are today, I have no business being in a relationship with them.

L