minnie

Oh, hon, I got exactly the same crap. I could forward you emails that you would swear were written by your ex (do they have a website they go to, like those from which you can get essay answers?)

He wanted me to talk to him just so as he could use the same tactics that he had used before. I had caved previously - giving him yet another chance after he had laid enough hooks that finally I bit. He didn't realise that I had changed the rules of the game. And now, there is no game.

Like you, I wanted to make him understand what he had done to me. I wanted him to validate what I had been through, wanted him to show some real remorse, some humility and to take ownership of all of that stuff that I had heaped on my shoulders and that didn't really belong there. Little did I know, that was not going to happen. I had to get those things from ME.

Anger was a huge thing for me for a long time. I wouldn't even write in my journal for 2 YEARS after we split up because I was so scared of what would come out. But once I truly learnt detachment, learnt that he wasn't doing it to me, he was just doing it and became strong enough in myself to be able to valdiate my own experience, the anger dissipated. Totally. I don't even believe it myself, sometimes! I think it had a lot to do with forgiveness - more of myself than of him.

I was kinda lucky, in hindsight. Mt ex hooked up with a new enabler pretty quick and I was, ahem, party to some of their emails exchanges. In fact, I have had some spordaic contact with her. I saw very clearly that I was nothing more than yet another object in his little world. Bizarrely, that helped.

How's it going today?

CE Girl

What you said here Minnie, FINALLY struck a chord with something I've been feeling for quite a while now. Its been in a "haze" if you will and while its been swirling in the background, I've not been able to put my finger on it till I read your statement.

The thought that he is "just doing it" has been very hard for me to grasp. Because I don't want to beleive it. "Doing it to me", made me the "victim" and in a very real way, I was comfortable in that role. It made me special. Noone else got that kind of attention from him. negative as it was. OMG, how dysfunctional and totally low self esteem is that?!?!?!But when I look at it, as your statement made me do, I realized, your absolutley right, he is just doing it, and has for a lot of years, to every person who ever loved him. He is now isolated and alone.

And I am surrounded by family, friends and a TON of support. I am learning to stop beating myself up for allowing this to happen to me. I am NOT a victim, I am a SURVIVOR. Is that the begiining of the validation you speak of? Will my own forgivemess be next?

I hope I understand it as you meant it

. I've been through the grief of a loss much stronger than this, and draw on that when need be. I will say, this is bringing all the memories of that loss to the forefront again. Dealing with that is not easy. They are memories I'd prefer to forget. The good thing though, is having gone through it once, I can anticipate what to expect. I remember saying to myself back then, "I can't WAIT until its been a month, year, and the pain starts to go away" Eventually, given the time it takes, it does get better. I DO know that.

I am living in the day Minnie. Today, I've been able to not only resist the temptation to answer him, but actually been productive at my job. Something thats been suffering as a result of life with my A. I'm worried about the weekend, but am trying not to project. I find I have plenty of options for things to do, but am almost wanting to hibernate in my cave. I know thats not good, as I will obsess and run the risk of giving in to my codie behaviours.

Can you elaborate on this? did you talk to him after no contact at some point and TELL him the rules had changed? I just got the latest "fake" email. In the subject line he says, "Well, I guess you really meant no contact"

Excuse me?!?!?! I don't GET it!!

LaTeeDa

It all comes down to 'actions, not words.' Still the best lesson I ever learned from SR. And, it works both ways. Ignore his words and listen to his actions. You told him no contact, yet he continues to try and get you to make contact.

Now, look at it from your side. If you tell him no contact, but you contact him, what are your actions telling him? That you didn't mean what you said. There is no point in TELLING him the rules. Show him by your actions.

I know how hard it is, but if you pay attention to his actions without letting his words sway you, you will see the truth. And if you take action based on the truth you see, the inner conflict you feel will begin to fade. That's how you change the rules.

L

CE Girl

It seems everytime I think I'm getting it, a new question,,,

If there is no contact, how can he show me with his actions?

If he honors my terms, and I stick to them myself, how does the relationship just not die?

It's actually been one of his concerns. "If you don't allow contact, how am I to show you with my actions"?

Again, this is like a "hazy" spot to me. I know the answer is within my fingertips, just having trouble actually holding it in my hand. Is it a "down the road" thing? We both go away, get well, and just "know" if it time for contact again?

I'm confusing myself here,,,

I DO agree though, I have to talk the talk AND walk the walk.

I will work my program and visit SR as often and as LONG as I have to all weekend long.

LaTeeDa

Well, when I made my husband move out of the house, I told him that if in six months, he had gotten his act together, then I would consider talking to him about the relationship. But we have children together, so I did see and talk to him at times because of that and I could see if he was sober, how he was living, etc.

I think you have to do whatever is best for you. If you need a period of no contact to sort out your feelings, take it. If he needs to know how long, give him a time frame. But, I would be very careful about making it too soon. I think six months would be my minimum, but a year might be better. All I know is many alcoholics can do whatever they need to--for the short term--to get what they want. My husband actually managed to stop drinking for four months one time when I threatened to leave. He did not get sober, just stopped drinking.

It's hard to decide what you need to do, but only you can decide what is best for you.

Wouldn't it be great if there was some magic formula you could follow? I wished for that many times. Now, I just try to do what is right for me right now, and try not to get to wrapped up in the 'what ifs' and possible outcomes.

Hugs to you,
L

minnie

Uuugh. Server probs.

Jazzman

I have had no contact with my ex wife for over two years. She knew the deal, no contact if active in your addiction, period. I demonstrated that with actions like not taking calls, etc. She had no choice but to either deal with her addiction or move on to another enabler because I quit the game. Two years later her actions had demonstrated a new commitment to working her program and remaining sober. Will it last? I don't now. Will she relapse? I don't know. But I do know this, it took two years of no contact before I would meet with her. If she goes back to active addiction, I will resume no contact, period, end of story. She knows this because I have already demonstrated my conviction.

I think you're still in the thick of it, hard to think clearly, hard to see the truth. For me I had to remove myself from the drama for a long time to see the truth.

CE Girl

Again, thank you to SR, this board and the VERY special people who have taken the time to give me the benefit of their expereince.

I think when I put this boundry into effect, my expectations were that this relationship would be over. Not only would I not expose myself to this disease, but I would not hold on to the hope that someday, we could be together. I have found myself in the last few days reevaluating that stance. I'm afraid, letting go is harder than I thought. I still have hope that he can recover. but have no concrete proof. Because of this change of thinking on my part, I can't help but feel that I have not set a CLEAR boundry. I have not said, there will be no contact for xxxx amount of time. Or the things I need to "see' him do.

Even more confusing to me is, can I change the "rules" of my boundry midstream? Should I write him and tell him excatly WHAT my expectations are? I agree it would be a considerable amount of TRUE sober time. Working a program, for HIM and not for me. Knowing my A, that is a lot to ask.

I would be able to monitor without contact. He has me on his PHI and I can call his counselor at any time. Right now he is not seeing her, but it would be a stipulation to his recovery. I've been involved in his attempt at revovery over the last 10 months and have contact with the people he is closest too in the program.

The view that actions are what is important here is right on. The fact that my A continues to contact me, SHOWS me that he is not understanding I mean what I say. I know intellectually, that if he truly understood and wanted to get better, contacting me would be the LAST thing he would be thinking of right now, as he would be too busy focusing on his OWN recovery.

Should I actually TELL him all this?

minnie

If your boundaries are for you, why would you need to let him know what they are in precise terms? I've always found it more useful that people show me who they are of their own volition, rather than for me to tell them who I want them to be.


p.s. I have no idea where my previous post went. I suspect there was a mod error somewhere along the line.

denny57

No.

LaTeeDa

Thank you for stating this so concisely, Minnie.

If you tell him your rules and conditions, you only give him the opportunity to manipulate you. Let him decide what he's going to do with the situation he is in.......

L

CE Girl

I actually got to read it, and in fact, was the catayst for my next response. I have no idea where it went either?!?!?! Maybe it was a "private" message?,,,,Never know what that hp is gonna do,,,~wink~


Thank you, I needed someone to tell me that

Right before I left work, another of those emails came through. Ok, so temptation got to me, the subject line was "Job". I read it.

I was about to move in with my A. For all intense purposes, we did live together for a while, though I never gave up my home. In fact, it was madness. I would "move in" things would go well for a week or two, he would relapse, and the nightmare would begin again. I moved back home. Of course, forgive him, go back, do well for another week or two, and ,,,,You see the cycle. Yet still I thought I could live with him. There's a considerable distance between us, and at the time of the "boundry" we were looking for somewhere mid way. He was also VERY unhappy at his job. As things progressed I told him I wasn't given up "my island" for him ( I live on a small island). He agreed he would get a job closer to my home and we would begin there. He would live seperately, but we would not have the distance and could take things a tad slower. The "plan" kept evolving, until finally I had to make the break. Hit MY bottom and came back to the island for good. I have not physically seen him since, (1 month)

This email was about how he was being interviewed for a position 20 miles away from the town I live in.

I know him. This is his attempt at "action"

But its not the action I want to see.

He sure knows how to push my buttons though. Bringing something that was this important to the "us".

Your all right on when you say, "look at his actions"

I just want him to leave me alone at this point.

By the way, I did not respond to the email and made sure the automatic receipt function was turned off so he could not know I read it.

I wish I didn't. Coming up with a plan for tonight though, so I can remain strong

denny57

Stay strong, CE, you're doing great!

minnie

Hey, CE, maybe there was something in my other post that was for our eyes only, maybe?!

That email was not an attempt at action, it was an attempt at a hook. Bet ya he doesn't get the job......

CE Girl

Today's gonna be a challenge. The weekends are the toughest, not because I miss him per say, but because I miss the drama. Now there's a REAL codie slap in the face!

I'm so enjoying the peace of not living in the madness, but at the same time, the tranquility of normal is something I'm not used to. Throw in the death of a love, and it truly is discombobilating. What it has done for me, is allow me to take inventory, straight up" with no distractions.

Man, can that be uncomfortable at times!!!

I've had to face, do I miss him or the pursuit of my super hero status? Holy cow, don't take the cape away from me!!!

I think its detachment in my whacky way.

I'm not worried about what he's doing. That to me is a BIG step.

I'm more worried about what I'm gonna do

I never go with the favorites ~wink~

Peace