Five

Its a common hand out in treatment centers I have heard.

But yes Eq, I agree.

equus

That's sad but then any anger would be perhaps better placed at those centers than here.

I can see elements of truth in it but at it's most basic level it would need some work to come up to date. One issue would be the recognition of two distinct patterns of alcohol addiction, referred to imaginatively as Type I and Type II!!! The other perhaps would be the stages of change circle model which acknowledges relapse more coherently as a part of the change process and also points to how many people overcome that. Last of all the value laiden stuff has no part of 'disease' description - you can't have it both ways and the dictionary definition of disease is NOT about values.

denny57

This is where I say look to my own experience and I'll tell you that my AH has followed this chart exactly. He is down to all alibis exhausted. I'm pretty certain it's not AA propaganda but in our case it wouldn't matter if it was. Fifty years later, it's accurate to our situation.

elizabeth1979

My ex has also followed this chart exactly. I agree Denny..thanks for the input

MisplacedAustin

This is interesting, thank you for posting it!

Pick-a-name

In my experience,these observations still hold very true to illustrating the progression of the disease in an unpersonal way. I see it as a "road map" of a general trend that is reapeated over and over if the problem continues on unchecked. Just as in any disease, the list of symptoms increases until the source of the problems is identified and addressed. Some are quick to seek help,others are not. That goes for most every disease. There are predictable problems seen in people with untreated diabetes, heart disease,etc.even care of teeth (I am a former dental assistant). I person who doesn't brush their teeth has more of a risk of tooth decay, that left untreated causes infection, loss of teeth, gum disease,etc.,etc.the problems just get larger and the treatment more difficult the longer the problem is ignored.

I see this as a chart to say:this is what typically is seen in people with this condition if it is left to run it's course (or if interrupted;as seen on the right side of the chart). If you notice these symptoms, you might want to consider that it is alcoholism and get help for that condition.

The scientific information may have changed (doesn't necessarily mean that because it is old it is wrong) in some areas but I think that the bulk of the information still is valid. JMO, of course.

I just found it interesting. In my case, I did not realize that some of these things I have seen were all related to alcoholism. It helps me understand more.

For what it is worth, in the 30yrs with AH, I have seen this follow exactly as the chart describes (although it need not.it even says general trend of "symptoms" that may not include all and the order may be different).

Jazzman

Here's another example of progression:

Disease progression
February 21, 1999

Here's how alcoholism typically progresses:

SOCIAL DRINKERS — Most Americans are characterized as social drinkers. Statistics indicate, however, that one of every 16 drinkers will become alcoholic.

WARNING SIGNS — The individual begins to drink more frequently and more than his associates. He drinks for confidence or to tolerate or escape problems. No party or other occasion is complete without a couple of drinks.

EARLY ALCOHOLISM — With increasing frequency, the individual drinks too much. "Blackouts," or temporary amnesia, occur during or following drinking episodes. He drinks more rapidly than others, sneaks drinks and in other ways conceals the quantity that he drinks. He resents any reference to his drinking habits.

BASIC ALCOHOLISM — The individual begins to lose control as to the time, place and amount of his drinking. He gets drunk unintentionally. He hides and protects his liquor supply. He drinks to overcome the hangover from his prior drinking. He tries new patterns of drinking as to time and place of drinking. He attempts cures by moving to new locations or by changing his drinking companions.

CHRONIC ALCOHOLISM — The individual becomes a loner in his drinking. He develops alibis, excuses and rationalizations to cover up or explain his drinking. Personality and behavior changes occur that affect all relationships — family, employment, community. Extended binges, physical tremors, hallucinations and delirium, complete rejection of social reality, malnutrition with accompanying illness and disease and early death all occur as chronic alcoholism progresses.

Source: American Medical Association

Pick-a-name

Thanks,Jazz! Very interesting.

Jazzman

If you google "alcohilic progression" you will get more hits than you can research. Have at it!

Same thing with "codependent self test" or "alcoholic self test"

equus

It wouldn't very accurately reflect this though:
I think on the whole there's a big diiference between large scale research and subjective experience. Both have some value but in medicine like it or not large scale, objective, tested wins. As I said earlier we can't have it both ways, on the one hand arguing medical status and on the other refusing medical research in favour of anecdote.

Missy

Isnt it wonderful how we can all have our own opinions and still love each other...
we are working the program know it or not.... "keep what you want and trash the rest" hmmm...
karen xo

Jazzman

Agreed EQ, but, can you translate that into an on topic progression of the disease factoid? Challenging, isn't it.

equus

OI!! I'm not flippin' in the program!! I say that only because sink, swim or float I couldn't really be in any way representative as a raving aitheist with more interest in hindu gods than the 12 steps!

(^^^ English dry humour!!! just in case explaination is needed)

equus

I don't know what a factoid is (though it sounds as though a surgeon should remove it!).

I'm trying to suggest a less all or nothing attitude towards leaflet sized explainations, coupled with some realisation that it's a lively research topic that does age.

When it comes to progression I'm very cautious, there's lots I'm interested in and most of it the jury will be out for a few years yet I think. Like differing effects on the brain according to age.

One thing I feel secure in saying is once drinking has got to the point of wrecking a life - or begining to, stopping is a very wise choice. Apart from there being a worsening which I think is wholly accepted I personally wouldn't like to add much to the details.

Last of all it's easy to get hold of pictures of the effects of prolonged severe drinking on the brain, the brain is the means to recovery so I think stopping earlier is better than later! The brain is also the seat of personality - hence it shrivelling causes some unpleasant side effects.

My anecdotal experience was that understanding the relationship between alcohol, brain, mind, and behaviour had a profound affect on me - D said it had a pretty profound affect on him too....

Jazzman

Well said, and a perfect example of a factoid in my mind.

Pick-a-name

When I looked at that Jellinek chart;it said to me (in different words) just the same thing as you just did, just in an experiential way instead of scientific. JMO.

I do think the medical and scientific things are important,too and am anxious to see what research will show in time. There are certainly lots of things that we don't know about addiction! Thanks for sharing your information,I find it very interesting.

denny57

Ah Jazz, you consider the disease concept factoid? Why do you do this? Why?

Jazzman

Now you're putting words in my mouth :uzi2:

equus

I know your talking about your perception and I don't doubt that, but the two don't say the same thing. I'm saying quite clearly that apart from the very basics I don't know, I wouldn't even attempt to offer more.

My issue with things like that chart being handed out (where or if they are) as 'treatment' is one of equality, we know better these days so why hand out an old leaflet? It sure as hell wouldn't be done with influenza!!!

pmaslan

I think these charts or progression levels are a base,
just like anything else. We need a place to start....
FWIW...the one and only A in my life was a perfect
model for the chart.....